Q: about Villein and Archon Investigation
cant...@hotmail.com
Player A has 1 pool and a vampire with a villein on. He plays Minion
Tap for 2 pool. Is he ousted or can he gain the pool before paying for
Villein?
another one:
Player A has 3 pool and player B has 1. Tension is in play. They are
the only players left. Player B bleeds for 4 and Player A plays Archon
Investigation to burn the vampire so Tension kicks in. How are the
VP's handled and who gets the last VP? Would there be any difference
if there was a player C? I.e. can Player B survive it by collecting
the 6 pool first?
and a third:
Player A and B both have 3 pool. Player A plys Personal Involvement on
B, what happens, are both ousted or does B survive as PI checks for
pool difference after A is ousted and then the card has no effect? Or
if it does, can he cancel the card as it is played to only take 2
pool? Will A still be ousted then?
LSJ
> How is this handled:
>
> Player A has 1 pool and a vampire with a villein on. He plays Minion
> Tap for 2 pool. Is he ousted or can he gain the pool before paying for
> Villein?
No. He doesn't pay for Villein. He pays for Minion Tap. Minion Tap costs 1 pool
to play (thanks to Villein). And it resolves when played. Resolution gives
player A 2 pool. So he plays it, pays 1, gains 2, and ends with 2.
> another one:
>
> Player A has 3 pool and player B has 1. Tension is in play. They are
> the only players left. Player B bleeds for 4 and Player A plays Archon
> Investigation to burn the vampire so Tension kicks in. How are the
> VP's handled and who gets the last VP? Would there be any difference
> if there was a player C? I.e. can Player B survive it by collecting
> the 6 pool first?
AI is played and costs 3 pool.
It leaves its "owner" empty (ousted) and the acting vampire burned.
So A is ousted. B gets 1 VP. Last remaining player gets B an additional VP.
Game ends (before Tension can kick in).
>
> and a third:
>
> Player A and B both have 3 pool. Player A plys Personal Involvement on
> B, what happens, are both ousted or does B survive as PI checks for
> pool difference after A is ousted and then the card has no effect? Or
> if it does, can he cancel the card as it is played to only take 2
> pool? Will A still be ousted then?
Both are ousted.
cant...@hotmail.com
> canti...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > How is this handled:
>
> > Player A has 1 pool and a vampire with a villein on. He plays Minion
> > Tap for 2 pool. Is he ousted or can he gain the pool before paying for
> > Villein?
>
> No. He doesn't pay for Villein. He pays for Minion Tap. Minion Tap costs 1 pool
> to play (thanks to Villein). And it resolves when played. Resolution gives
> player A 2 pool. So he plays it, pays 1, gains 2, and ends with 2.
Sorry I meant that he pays for (MT for) Villein being in play.
>
> > another one:
>
> > Player A has 3 pool and player B has 1. Tension is in play. They are
> > the only players left. Player B bleeds for 4 and Player A plays Archon
> > Investigation to burn the vampire so Tension kicks in. How are the
> > VP's handled and who gets the last VP? Would there be any difference
> > if there was a player C? I.e. can Player B survive it by collecting
> > the 6 pool first?
>
> AI is played and costs 3 pool.
> It leaves its "owner" empty (ousted) and the acting vampire burned.
> So A is ousted. B gets 1 VP. Last remaining player gets B an additional VP.
> Game ends (before Tension can kick in).
I'm not sure I follow the reasoning on this one when you compare to
the first example with MT. When you pay for AI it resolves, right? So
when it resolves it also burns the vamp and when vamp burns the pool
damage is done. Why isn't all this happening at the same time, when
MT's cost and pool gain does?
Juggernaut1981
From looking at this post and others on card costs... it would appear
to work like this.
To play the card, you must pay its cost and then the card resolves.
As you play the card, you have 0 pool ==> you are therefore ousted and
AI doesn't get to complete (but is played).
LSJ
> On 14 Apr, 01:00, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> canti...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> How is this handled:
>>> Player A has 1 pool and a vampire with a villein on. He plays Minion
>>> Tap for 2 pool. Is he ousted or can he gain the pool before paying for
>>> Villein?
>> No. He doesn't pay for Villein. He pays for Minion Tap. Minion Tap costs 1 pool
>> to play (thanks to Villein). And it resolves when played. Resolution gives
>> player A 2 pool. So he plays it, pays 1, gains 2, and ends with 2.
>
> Sorry I meant that he pays for (MT for) Villein being in play.
Correct, then.
Pay 1. Gain 2. End with 2.
>>> another one:
>>> Player A has 3 pool and player B has 1. Tension is in play. They are
>>> the only players left. Player B bleeds for 4 and Player A plays Archon
>>> Investigation to burn the vampire so Tension kicks in. How are the
>>> VP's handled and who gets the last VP? Would there be any difference
>>> if there was a player C? I.e. can Player B survive it by collecting
>>> the 6 pool first?
>> AI is played and costs 3 pool.
>> It leaves its "owner" empty (ousted) and the acting vampire burned.
>> So A is ousted. B gets 1 VP. Last remaining player gets B an additional VP.
>> Game ends (before Tension can kick in).
>
> I'm not sure I follow the reasoning on this one when you compare to
> the first example with MT. When you pay for AI it resolves, right? So
> when it resolves it also burns the vamp and when vamp burns the pool
> damage is done. Why isn't all this happening at the same time, when
> MT's cost and pool gain does?
It resolves when played.
Leaving the Meth who played it at 0 and burning the target acting vampire.
Then, later, after burning the target acting vampire, Tension would try to burn
a pool for that burning. But the game is over by that time.
Chris Berger
Tension doesn't happen "later", it happens "whenever" a ready minion
is burned. How are we to know when one thing that happens immediately
(gaining pool for Minion Tap's resolution), happens faster than
another thing that happens immediately (burning pool for a minion that
is burned during Archon Investigation's resolution)?
bwr...@mail.com
> Tension doesn't happen "later", it happens "whenever" a ready minion
> is burned. How are we to know when one thing that happens immediately
> (gaining pool for Minion Tap's resolution), happens faster than
> another thing that happens immediately (burning pool for a minion that
> is burned during Archon Investigation's resolution)?
There's no contradiction. Minion Tap resolves when played, but
Tension in the Ranks needs to wait until the minion is actually burned
(not just queued up by AI). There needs to be a window in there where
cards might be played that might prevent the burning (for example,
succeed in diablerizing a vampire (setting up Tension in the Ranks),
but your opponent plays Crimson Fury at inferior cancelling the
diablerie so Tension in the Ranks doesn't happen).
Brent
LSJ
Correct. Tension is a triggered effect. It needs the trigger to occur before its
effect is applied.