[LSJ] Derange & annabelle question.
Reyda
my prey is at 6 pool.
--scenario one.
during my untap, i untap the vampires i control : annabelle, yvette and fahd
with a derange on him. I must pay one blood to have him untapped.
My prey's hand shows he has no wake. (sup. revelation)
Annabelle does her action to give all toreadors +1 bleed.
She then bleed for 2.
then it's a bleed for 2 with yvette. I suddenly realize that Fahd is not a
toreador. So i move the derange to yvette (which is the only legal target)
and i bleed with Fahd.
My Question is : is Fahd bleeding for 2 (because he's a toreador) or for 1
(because of hidden and obscure mechanics)
--scenario two.
during my untap, i untap the vampires i control : annabelle, Fahd and
Lucinda with a derange on her. I must pay one blood to have her untapped.
My prey's hand shows he has no wake. (sup. revelation)
Annabelle does her action to give all toreadors +1 bleed.
She then bleed for 2.
Then I suddenly realize that Lucinda is not a toreador. So i move the
derange to Fahd (which is the only legal target)
and i bleed with Lucinda, then with Fahd.
My Question is : Who is bleeding for 1 ? Who is bleeding for 2 ?
Reyda
LSJ
> my prey is at 6 pool.
>
> --scenario one.
> during my untap, i untap the vampires i control : annabelle, yvette and fahd
> with a derange on him. I must pay one blood to have him untapped.
>
Annabelle is a legal target.
> and i bleed with Fahd.
Assuming Fahd untaps after moving the Derange...
> My Question is : is Fahd bleeding for 2 (because he's a toreador) or for 1
> (because of hidden and obscure mechanics)
Two.
> --scenario two.
>
> during my untap, i untap the vampires i control : annabelle, Fahd and
> [Lucina] with a derange on her. I must pay one blood to have her untapped.
>
> Annabelle does her action to give all toreadors +1 bleed.
> [...] So i move the derange to Fahd (which is the only legal target)
Annabelle is also a legal target.
> and i bleed with [Lucina], then with Fahd.
>
> My Question is : Who is bleeding for 1 ? Who is bleeding for 2 ?
The Toreador is bleeds for 2. The non-Toreador bleeds for 1.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Reyda
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de
> Assuming Fahd untaps after moving the Derange...
assumed fortitude => freak drive
> > My Question is : is Fahd bleeding for 2 (because he's a toreador) or for
1
> > (because of hidden and obscure mechanics)
>
> Two.
excellent =)
> > --scenario two.
(...)
> > My Question is : Who is bleeding for 1 ? Who is bleeding for 2 ?
>
> The Toreador is bleeds for 2. The non-Toreador bleeds for 1.
excellent, thank you =)
Wouter Kuyper
I recall something i really don't know where it came from and in what
relation it was. I THINK it was in relation with Anabelle and new
Toreador coming into play via the gem. It was something like "only the
toreador already in play get the +1bleed" if i recall it correct and
all...
What was this about? is my memory missing some important parts?
(probably!) what parts?
W
Joshua Duffin
"Wouter Kuyper" <Wouter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:44a2da05.04081...@posting.google.com...
> "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<41191e15$0$23289$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net>...
> > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de
> >
> > > Assuming Fahd untaps after moving the Derange...
> >
> > assumed fortitude => freak drive
> >
> > > > My Question is : is Fahd bleeding for 2 (because he's a
toreador) or for
> > 1
> > > > (because of hidden and obscure mechanics)
> > >
> > > Two.
> >
> > excellent =)
>
> relation it was. I THINK it was in relation with Anabelle and new
> Toreador coming into play via the gem. It was something like "only the
> toreador already in play get the +1bleed" if i recall it correct and
> all...
>
> What was this about? is my memory missing some important parts?
> (probably!) what parts?
Good memory, I think. You can find the relevant LSJ message here:
www.google.com/groups?selm=3F378348.90005%40white-wolf.com&output=gplain
Ironically, that previous answer was in response to a question asked
by... Reyda! :-)
Josh
if at first you don't succeed
Reyda
"Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> a écrit dans le message de
news:2nv0hlF...@uni-berlin.de...
> Good memory, I think. You can find the relevant LSJ message here:
>
> www.google.com/groups?selm=3F378348.90005%40white-wolf.com&output=gplain
>
> Ironically, that previous answer was in response to a question asked
> by... Reyda! :-)
yes, and the two rulings seem to contradict each others... =)
i'd say i prefer the second answer...
LSJ
The second is official.
Reyda
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:2nv476F...@uni-berlin.de...
> "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:411a500a$0$2967$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net...
> >
> > "Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> a écrit dans le message de
> > news:2nv0hlF...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >
> > > Good memory, I think. You can find the relevant LSJ message here:
> > >
> > >
www.google.com/groups?selm=3F378348.90005%40white-wolf.com&output=gplain
> > >
> > > Ironically, that previous answer was in response to a question asked
> > > by... Reyda! :-)
> >
> > yes, and the two rulings seem to contradict each others... =)
> >
> > i'd say i prefer the second answer...
>
>
> The second is official.
G*R*E*A*T !
the turbo annabelle will soon rock the world ;)
Matthew T. Morgan
> > The second is official.
>
> G*R*E*A*T !
> the turbo annabelle will soon rock the world ;)
Nice idea. Something like this perhaps?
Annabelle gives herself +1 bleed and untaps (8 blood).
Annabelle calls Praxis Seizure Monaco (or Paris), Freaks (7 blood).
Annabelle gets the Soul Gem of Etrius, Freaks (6 blood).
Annabelle makes an Embrace (4 blood).
Annabelle bleeds for 6 with Force of Will, Aire of Elation and Daring the
Dawn and burns.
Each iteration gives Annabelle an extra bleed. If there are already some
Embraces in play, they'll also wind up with huge bleed potential (although
good luck getting the bleed through).
Seems pretty fragile, though, with all the +1 stealth actions and the vote
needing to pass. Did you have a more solid plan?
Matt Morgan
Wouter Kuyper
> "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:411a500a$0$2967$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net...
> >
> > "Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> a écrit dans le message de
> > news:2nv0hlF...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >
> > > Good memory, I think. You can find the relevant LSJ message here:
> > >
> > > www.google.com/groups?selm=3F378348.90005%40white-wolf.com&output=gplain
> > >
> > > Ironically, that previous answer was in response to a question asked
> > > by... Reyda! :-)
> >
> > yes, and the two rulings seem to contradict each others... =)
which is why i brought it up.
> >
> > i'd say i prefer the second answer...
>
>
> The second is official.
ok, cool, so now the Annabelle thing stacks?
W
LSJ
> ok, cool, so now the Annabelle thing stacks?
?
It stacked before, and it still stacks. All effects stack by default.
Joshua Duffin
news:411a500a$0$2967$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net...
> >
> > "Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> a écrit dans le message de
> > news:2nv0hlF...@uni-berlin.de...
> > > Good memory, I think. You can find the relevant LSJ message here:
> > >
> > >
www.google.com/groups?selm=3F378348.90005%40white-wolf.com&output=gplain
> > >
> > > Ironically, that previous answer was in response to a question
asked
> > > by... Reyda! :-)
> >
> > yes, and the two rulings seem to contradict each others... =)
> >
> > i'd say i prefer the second answer...
>
>
> The second is official.
I don't mean to make trouble, but Invitation Accepted still works as in
the thread a year ago (happy anniversary!) where Annabelle Triabell's
special was compared to it (and Revocation of Tyre, etc), doesn't it?
That is, it applies its effect to all "X" that are currently in play,
without regard to who may become part of category "X" at some later
date. This was, I think, put on the RT list for review, but has not
been changed.
If that's the case, why is Annabelle Triabell's ability now being
reversed to apply to (I guess) "the game as a whole for its duration"
instead of "the members of category X when the ability is invoked"? It
doesn't seem consistent.
Josh
the hobgoblin of little newsgroups
LSJ
> I don't mean to make trouble, but Invitation Accepted still works as in
> the thread a year ago (happy anniversary!) where Annabelle Triabell's
> special was compared to it (and Revocation of Tyre, etc), doesn't it?
Of course. The reasons that made that ruling necessary haven't changed,
so the ruling is still necessary.
> If that's the case, why is Annabelle Triabell's ability now being
> reversed to apply to (I guess) "the game as a whole for its duration"
> instead of "the members of category X when the ability is invoked"? It
> doesn't seem consistent.
Annabelle's effect isn't a remainder of game effect, and it is
a stacking effect, not a switching effect, so the problems just aren't
there to warrant the odd ruling.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
Darky
How about:
Annabelle gives herself +1 bleed and untaps (8 blood).
----1st time around: Annabelle gets the soulgem, maybe even freaks (7
blood)
Possibly: Annabelle plays distraction (inferior or superior both are
useful), freaks (6/7 blood)
Annabelle calls Praxis Seizure Monaco (or Paris), Awe (1/2 blood).
Annabelle bleeds for 3+ with Force of Will and maybe Daring the
Dawn and/or aire of elation.
Playable even without freaks, though handcycling becomes hard.
I'd probably start out without any cards i dont strictly need (no
daring, no aire)
-Bram Vink
Otto Koskinen
Toreador grand ball. Problem solved.
Toss in Awe to make the vote *PASS* and you're good to go.
Colin McGuigan
> Toreador grand ball. Problem solved.
> Toss in Awe to make the vote *PASS* and you're good to go.
TGB would, of course, only affect the first Annabelle. Once the Soul
Gem triggered, the TGB effect would be lost.
--Colin McGuigan
Matthew T. Morgan
Not to mention, it would also necessitate using other Toreador in the
crypt, probably weenies, which could cause some serious Soul Gem sadness.
Or it would require Annabelle to make an Embrace the turn before she
becomes unblockable. There's an action begging to be blocked.
That's why I'm interested in where Reyda was going with this. Is it a
real super-sneaky idea or another one of those decks that can't lose
provided nobody has +1 intercept?
Matt Morgan
Otto Koskinen
Yep, wasnt thought out until the end.
Anyhow, the trick seems to be how to make it go bang, since Annabelle
lacks stealth disciplines. Using other vamps is out, so what does that
leave?
Oh, but she *does* have a stealth discipline.
Alacrity and Siren's lure, albeit expensive, seem ideal.
So, you need to;
a) equip gem, freak (1)
b) vote Paris, freak (1)
c) do her "thang"
d) create a progeny, (2)
e) bleed with Force of Will (1), Aire (1), Daring the dawn.
That is 6 blood used, out of 9*. Now, the future copies will only use
5, since they will skip part a) completely.
Even in the first one blood can be easily be neglected, say, from the
Aire, for 2 stealth actions. Also, since the only crucial actions are
a) & b), the first one can make those pass with 2 stealth, and skip
the whole "macarena of weenies" part and just bleed for 5.
*with possibility to go up to 7, which, when combined with 4
aggrodamage, is enough to burn her at the end of the bleed.
Also possible is use 2 blood less, by not giving any to the progeny,
but instead using those on the stealth or better yet, Awe.
Reyda
"Matthew T. Morgan" <far...@eris.io.com>
> That's why I'm interested in where Reyda was going with this. Is it a
> real super-sneaky idea or another one of those decks that can't lose
> provided nobody has +1 intercept?
be sarcastic if you like, i don't mind =)
i've seen the turbo arika and the brit turbo in action, and in an intercept
heavy environment, they don't work. Exactly like a vote deck : heavy
intercept = no way you can call votes.
everything is supposed to hit the table and kill your prey in one turn (as a
real turbo would do).
you have ways to trump a block by using daring the dawn, approximation of
loyalty, crocodile's tongue or alacrity (costs a lot). You can even play
change of target and try the combo on the following turn. I'll find
something.
but now, as to bring all the cards together, that's another matter ;)