LSJ - darkling trickery
Reyda
Vamp A(cting) is in combat with vamp B(locking)
A maneveurs to long with, say, ir goggles. He declares no strike at this
time.
B uses his improvised flamethrower to inflict 2R aggravated to A.
A plays darkling trickery superior.
B wants to use rotschreck.
Is this legal ?
is it possible to play, say, 5 darkling trickery against a minion
attempting to use a weapon that does ranged damage to inflict 5 damage
during strike resolution ?
Is the Improvised flamethrower's "backlash" inflicted since nothing on
Darkling trickery states that it's the vampire (A) who inflicts the damage ?
Where is exactly the window where you declare you're using darkling trickery
?
if B was the acting minion instead, can he use primal instinct to change his
strike to something else, like Earthmeld or Majesty before Darkling trickery
takes effect ?
thank you.
reyda
John Flournoy
> Just a few questions :
>
> Vamp A(cting) is in combat with vamp B(locking)
>
>
> A maneveurs to long with, say, ir goggles. He declares no strike at this
> time.
> B uses his improvised flamethrower to inflict 2R aggravated to A.
> A plays darkling trickery superior.
> B wants to use rotschreck.
>
> Is this legal ?
Shouldn't be, because vamp B no longer meets the requirements for
Rotschreck (in the same way that a minion at long range can't
Rotschreck with a strike with a Sengir Dagger - since the strike is
inflicting 0 damage, there's nothing to be afraid of.)
And the acting minion (in this case A) gets to respond to the
declaration of B's strike with any immediate effects before B does, so
he can use DT before B gets to play Rotschreck.
(Note that if A passes, then B plays Rotschreck, it's too late to go
'in response to that Rotschreck I play DT)
> is it possible to play, say, 5 darkling trickery against a minion
> attempting to use a weapon that does ranged damage to inflict 5 damage
> during strike resolution ?
I'll leave that to LSJ, but I don't see why not.
> Is the Improvised flamethrower's "backlash" inflicted since nothing on
> Darkling trickery states that it's the vampire (A) who inflicts the damage ?
Damage from DT superior would be environmental damage, same as any
other non-strike combat card (like Crows, or a Zombie, or Drawing out
the Beast at Sup). So it wouldn't trigger the Improvised Flamethrower
immolation.
> Where is exactly the window where you declare you're using darkling trickery
> ?
Immediately in response to the strike declaration. Since it is 'only
usable when the opposing minion attempts to strike', it needs to be
done during the strike declaration step.
> if B was the acting minion instead, can he use primal instinct to change his
> strike to something else, like Earthmeld or Majesty before Darkling trickery
> takes effect ?
He could change his strike, but should still take the 1 damage from DT
- this isn't Magic, there's no 'first in last out' ordering of
effects. Since DT was legal to play when it was played, cancelling the
strike does not make DT retroactively illegal - whatever your new
strike is will still do damage, but DT will do its 1 to you. (Note
that if you're equipped with a .44 and a Deer Rifle and IR goggles,
you shoot with the .44 and your foe DT's, you can Primal Instinct and
shoot with the Deer Rifle and do damage because it is not 'that
weapon' that your opponent DT'ed. Of course, he can always play a
second DT on the deer rifle.)
>
> thank you.
> reyda
-John Flournoy
Timlagor
I disagree. If you change to S:CE then you will never reach the 'strike
resolution' step when the DT woulddo its damage. That is not say that
the DT is cancelled -just that you never reach it doing damage if the
strike is changed to S:CE.
The Lasombra
wrote:
>Vamp A(cting) is in combat with vamp B(locking)
>A maneveurs to long with, say, ir goggles. He declares no strike at this
>time.
>B uses his improvised flamethrower to inflict 2R aggravated to A.
>A plays darkling trickery superior.
>B wants to use rotschreck.
>Is this legal ?
No.
Vampire A must declare a strike, even if it is not effective at the
current range.
Also, B cannot play Rotschreck because the weapon is not doing any
damage.
LSJ 2003-07-28
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39F99E28.FB7C11EA%40white-wolf.com
>is it possible to play, say, 5 darkling trickery against a minion
>attempting to use a weapon that does ranged damage to inflict 5 damage
>during strike resolution ?
No.
Once you have played a Darkling Trickery, the weapon is no longer
doing ranged damage, and the trigger for playing the other cards does
not exist.
LSJ 2002-10-18
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DAFFF84.CF8FA18E%40white-wolf.com
>Is the Improvised flamethrower's "backlash" inflicted since nothing on
>Darkling trickery states that it's the vampire (A) who inflicts the damage ?
No.
The damage is not damage from a strike, and does not have specific
card text to indicate that the damage is done by the minion.
>Where is exactly the window where you declare you're using darkling trickery?
Immediately after strike announcement.
>if B was the acting minion instead, can he use primal instinct to change his
>strike to something else, like Earthmeld or Majesty before Darkling trickery
>takes effect ?
Combat ending will take effect over the weapon not striking, sure.
The question is moot, because Darkling Trickery is not a permanent
effect on the weapon, it merely nullifies one strike resolution.
LSJ 2002-10-18
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DAFF356.ABE33538%40white-wolf.com
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
John Flournoy
Oh good point - I didn't look closely to see that he was switching to
S:CE as opposed to another strike.
So yeah, if you cancel your strike with Primal Essence and switch to a
S:CE, you never get to his strike resolution, so would avoid the DT
damage.
-John Flournoy
LSJ
> "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3fae548d$0$19168$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>...
>>
>>A maneveurs to long with, say, ir goggles. He declares no strike at this
>>time.
>>B uses his improvised flamethrower to inflict 2R aggravated to A.
>>A plays darkling trickery superior.
>>B wants to use rotschreck.
>>
>>Is this legal ?
>
> Shouldn't be, because vamp B no longer meets the requirements for
> Rotschreck (in the same way that a minion at long range can't
> Rotschreck with a strike with a Sengir Dagger - since the strike is
> inflicting 0 damage, there's nothing to be afraid of.)
>
> And the acting minion (in this case A) gets to respond to the
> declaration of B's strike with any immediate effects before B does, so
> he can use DT before B gets to play Rotschreck.
>
> (Note that if A passes, then B plays Rotschreck, it's too late to go
> 'in response to that Rotschreck I play DT)
Correct. Note that, as Lasombra notes, A declares "hand strike" (which
have no effect at long range) rather than "no strike".
>>is it possible to play, say, 5 darkling trickery against a minion
>>attempting to use a weapon that does ranged damage to inflict 5 damage
>>during strike resolution ?
>
> I'll leave that to LSJ, but I don't see why not.
It is possible, yes.
>>Is the Improvised flamethrower's "backlash" inflicted since nothing on
>>Darkling trickery states that it's the vampire (A) who inflicts the damage ?
>
> Damage from DT superior would be environmental damage, same as any
> other non-strike combat card (like Crows, or a Zombie, or Drawing out
> the Beast at Sup). So it wouldn't trigger the Improvised Flamethrower
> immolation.
The damage from DT won't trigger the Improvised FT to explode, no.
If some damage is done that causes the Improvised FT to explode, the DT will
not reduce that self-inflicted damage, though.
>>Where is exactly the window where you declare you're using darkling trickery
>>?
>
> Immediately in response to the strike declaration. Since it is 'only
> usable when the opposing minion attempts to strike', it needs to be
> done during the strike declaration step.
Correct. Note that it can be played after both strikes have been declared
(you needn't play it immediately after the acting minion's strike - you can
wait until after you declare your strike if you want).
>>if B was the acting minion instead, can he use primal instinct to change his
>>strike to something else, like Earthmeld or Majesty before Darkling trickery
>>takes effect ?
>
> He could change his strike, but should still take the 1 damage from DT
> - this isn't Magic, there's no 'first in last out' ordering of
... unless combat ends before strike resolution.
> effects. Since DT was legal to play when it was played, cancelling the
> strike does not make DT retroactively illegal - whatever your new
> strike is will still do damage, but DT will do its 1 to you. (Note
> that if you're equipped with a .44 and a Deer Rifle and IR goggles,
> you shoot with the .44 and your foe DT's, you can Primal Instinct and
> shoot with the Deer Rifle and do damage because it is not 'that
> weapon' that your opponent DT'ed. Of course, he can always play a
> second DT on the deer rifle.)
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Timlagor
> >>is it possible to play, say, 5 darkling trickery against a minion
> >>attempting to use a weapon that does ranged damage to inflict 5 damage
> >>during strike resolution ?
> >
> > I'll leave that to LSJ, but I don't see why not.
>
> It is possible, yes.
So the minion is deemed to be "attempting to srike with a weapon that
does ranged damage" even after you have played DT and reduced the dmg to
0? presumably the weapon still 'does damage' even though in this
instance it isn't going to...?
Just to be absolutely sure.
Timlagor
> >>is it possible to play, say, 5 darkling trickery against a minion
> >>attempting to use a weapon that does ranged damage to inflict 5 damage
> >>during strike resolution ?
> >
> > I'll leave that to LSJ, but I don't see why not.
>
> It is possible, yes.
So the minion is deemed to be "attempting to srike with a weapon that
does ranged damage" even after you have played DT and reduced the dmg to
0? presumably the weapon still 'does damage' even though in this
instance it isn't going to...?
But if the acting vampire chose to use primal instincts and change to a
non-weapon strike then the blocker could only play 1 DT?
LSJ
> LSJ expounded:
>
>>>>is it possible to play, say, 5 darkling trickery against a minion
>>>>attempting to use a weapon that does ranged damage to inflict 5 damage
>>>>during strike resolution ?
>>>
>>>I'll leave that to LSJ, but I don't see why not.
>>
>>It is possible, yes.
>
> So the minion is deemed to be "attempting to srike with a weapon that
> does ranged damage" even after you have played DT and reduced the dmg to
> 0? presumably the weapon still 'does damage' even though in this
> instance it isn't going to...?
Oh, right. The first DT will preclude the play of the second (on the same
weapon).
> But if the acting vampire chose to use primal instincts and change to a
> non-weapon strike then the blocker could only play 1 DT?
>
> Just to be absolutely sure.
--