faceless night / ritual of the bitter rose Q
stubby
(1)
with faceless night, the minion is tapped immediatly when faceless is
played (at superior) ie once the facless is played the minion then
can't misdirect (bounce) the bleed??
is that right??
(2)
ritual of the bitter rose
can you play this card after a decapiate? we think you can but not
totally sure - ie on card it says 'when vampire is burned' it doesn't
stae how so it doesn't have to be after deabilierie??
many thanks
anam
skaffen
>just want to clarify things.
>
>(1)
>with faceless night, the minion is tapped immediatly when
faceless is
>played (at superior) ie once the facless is played the minion
then
>can't misdirect (bounce) the bleed??
>
>is that right??
The minion will be tapped no matter what the outcome of her
blocking attempt is. So if
she fails to block (i.e. can’t play enough intercept) and wants
to deflect instead, she must
play a card like WWEF first.
>
>(2)
>
>ritual of the bitter rose
>
>can you play this card after a decapiate? we think you can but
not
>totally sure - ie on card it says 'when vampire is burned' it
doesn't
>stae how so it doesn't have to be after deabilierie??
>
With the current errata
"This card can be played as a combat card or an action modifier.
Each of your ready
vampires gains an amount of blood from the blood bank equal to
the amount of blood on
a vampire being burned either by diablerie or while in combat
with this vampire."
you could play Ritual after a Decaptitate.
Hope that helps
Regards
Skaffen
Chantry Elder Of Munich
"Our hearts discern wild images of Death,
Shadows and shoals that edge eternity."
>
>many thanks
>
>anam
>
>
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Noal McDonald
>> with faceless night, the minion is tapped immediatly when
>> faceless is played (at superior) ie once the facless is
>> played the minion then can't misdirect (bounce) the bleed??
>
> blocking attempt is. So if she fails to block (i.e. can't play
> enough intercept) and wants to deflect instead, she must play
> a card like WWEF first.
Correct per revised card text (see the errata page):
+1 stealth, and any vampire that attempts to block this action [is
tapped when the block succeeds or when that vampire's controller
decides not to block].
If you declare an attempt to block, you would have to decide not to
block prior to playing a Deflection.
Regards,
Noal McDonald
NJL Rules Team Member/VEKN Prince of Farmington Hills, MI
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Eric Pettersen
>
> >> with faceless night, the minion is tapped immediatly when
> >> faceless is played (at superior) ie once the facless is
> >> played the minion then can't misdirect (bounce) the bleed??
> >
> > The minion will be tapped no matter what the outcome of her
> > blocking attempt is. So if she fails to block (i.e. can't play
> > enough intercept) and wants to deflect instead, she must play
> > a card like WWEF first.
>
> Correct per revised card text (see the errata page):
>
> +1 stealth, and any vampire that attempts to block this action [is
> tapped when the block succeeds or when that vampire's controller
> decides not to block].
>
> If you declare an attempt to block, you would have to decide not to
> block prior to playing a Deflection.
But you could still Telepathic Counter, right? You don't have to decline
to block before playing TC, correct?
---
Eric Pettersen
pett "at" cgl "dot" ucsf "dot" edu (NeXTmail capable)
stubby
>
>But you could still Telepathic Counter, right? You don't have to decline
>to block before playing TC, correct?
you have to untapped to play TC (i thought anyway) so if faceless if
played, then you are not untapped and therefore couldn't play any TC.
somebody say something if thats not right??
anam
Ramsteiner
If you wanted to play a Telepathic Counter to reduce (or zero out) a
bleed and the bleeding minion is superior Obfuscate, you could use the
TC prior to your block attempt. If anything is left after the TC, you
can attempt the block then.
Faceless Night affects blocking minions in different ways. If you have
an Untapped minion blocking and Faceless Nights are played at superior,
then once the block determination is concluded (block successful or
unsuccessful) the blocking minion becomes tapped and would have to play
a WwEF or FA to allow the use of other reaction cards (i.e.
Deflection). If you have a Tapped minion who uses a WwEF or FA,
however, the Faceless Nights does nothing but provide +1 Stealth as the
card text for WwEF and FA allow the Tapped minion to continue playing
reaction cards until the action is resolved.
But also remember the Errata on the card, if Faceless Nights is used at
superior against a blocking Untapped minion and Change of Target is
played to cancel the action, the effects of Faceless Night are also
cancelled. (per LSJ)
Michael Eichler
Prince of Ramstein
--
Worry comes from the belief you are powerless.
(So get in there and kick some butt!)
can...@my-deja.com
Hmm I came to think of a situation when reaidng this. IF a Gangrel
having 0 bleed due to Gangrel Atavism, can he still bleed (and then use
dominate to increase the bleed after the prey declines to block) or
does he have to play the bleed modifying card before prey gets to
choose whether to block or not?
I'd think it's the last scenario, i.e. that a vampire with 0 bleed
cannot evena ttempt a bleed just like an ally with 0 bleed cannot, but
I'm not sure on this.
Noal McDonald
> I'd think it's the last scenario, i.e. that a vampire with 0 bleed
> cannot evena ttempt a bleed just like an ally with 0 bleed cannot,
> but I'm not sure on this.
A player may use a minion with zero bleed to bleed and wait until the
prey (or whomever) declines to block to play bleed modifiers.
Regards,
Noal McDonald
Prince/Priscus of Farmington Hills, MI
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
Noal McDonald
> But you could still Telepathic Counter, right? You don't have to
> decline to block before playing TC, correct?
I had to give some thought to this, but you are correct. You can play TC
and still leave open the option to block since the action is still
directed at you. (I'll be happy to verify this with LSJ when I see him
on Saturday at GenCon.)
For example, if a bleed for one is declared and you attempt to block.
Then the predator (or whomever is bleeding you) plays Faceless Night and
you reduce the bleed to zero with Telepathic Counter. Since you have not
yet declined to block, you can still attempt to block (with intercept)
should they play action modifiers to increase the bleed.
Once you have declared that you no longer intend to block an action
modified with Faceless Night, your minion is tapped.
Regards,
Noal McDonald
NJL Rules Team Member/VEKN Prince of Farmington Hills, MI
kindred_...@my-deja.com
Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> pe...@address.is.in.sig (Eric Pettersen) wrote:
> > But you could still Telepathic Counter, right? You don't have to
> > decline to block before playing TC, correct?
>
> I had to give some thought to this, but you are correct. You can play
TC
> and still leave open the option to block since the action is still
> directed at you. (I'll be happy to verify this with LSJ when I see him
> on Saturday at GenCon.)
>
> For example, if a bleed for one is declared and you attempt to block.
> Then the predator (or whomever is bleeding you) plays Faceless Night
and
> you reduce the bleed to zero with Telepathic Counter. Since you have
not
> yet declined to block, you can still attempt to block (with intercept)
> should they play action modifiers to increase the bleed.
>
> Once you have declared that you no longer intend to block an action
> modified with Faceless Night, your minion is tapped.
>
> Regards,
> Noal McDonald
> NJL Rules Team Member/VEKN Prince of Farmington Hills, MI
> --
Noal,
would that mean that someone could declare a block, wait to see if see
if the opposing minion could any stealth, then CHOOSE to play
deflection???
what about 2nd Tradition? Does that mean I could play 2nd Tradition and
then CHOOSE to deflect as long as I declare a block?
Just trying to clarify,
Justin
Kindred Historian
Derek Ray
>In article <8n14ja$lmt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> Once you have declared that you no longer intend to block an action
>> modified with Faceless Night, your minion is tapped.
>
>Noal,
>
>would that mean that someone could declare a block, wait to see if see
>if the opposing minion could any stealth, then CHOOSE to play
>deflection???
Yes and no. You can opt to block, and if the opposing minions drops,
say, Lost in Crowds on it, then you may play a Deflection instead,
which bounces a bleed at +2 stealth to your prey.
If you declare a block, however, and the minion adds NO stealth to the
action, you may not "un-declare" your block and bounce instead
(barring card text from Dawn Op at inferior) - you are blocking.
slightly earlier subject - I'm not sure how the "slide-by" would work
with Faceless Night exactly. There's visible arguments for both sides
of that one: that once you have declared to block, you must
successfully block or decline to block before doing anything else -
meaning that you can't try to block, get Facelessed, and then TC or
Deflect anyway before declining to block.
I think that since you could play TC and block anyway if it got
bumped, you aren't declining to block by playing a TC - but
Deflection/TM would be otherwise, since you couldn't Deflect and then
block (without someone else bouncing it back to you), meaning
Deflection has an implied "i don't block" involved.
>what about 2nd Tradition? Does that mean I could play 2nd Tradition and
>then CHOOSE to deflect as long as I declare a block?
2nd tradition requires you to attempt to block. As long as you have
attempted to block, your minion will be untapped (barring Faceless
Night, etc.), and you may Deflect if the opposing minion generates +3
stealth.
-- Derek
Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta
Noal McDonald
> would that mean that someone could declare a block, wait to see
> if see if the opposing minion could any stealth, then CHOOSE to
> play deflection???
Yes and no.
If they choose to play no additional stealth, your block is successful
and you have no opportunity to play the Deflection. If they play
stealth, than you can choose to play Deflection, rather than continue
the block attempt. However, if the stealth card is Faceless Night, you
get tapped before Deflection because by directing the action to another
player, you are no longer attempting to block it.
> what about 2nd Tradition? Does that mean I could play 2nd Tradition
> and then CHOOSE to deflect as long as I declare a block?
No. Same as above. Since 2nd Tradition requires a block attempt, which
means that the two minions must go into combat unless more stealth is
played than your current interecept...assuming, of course, that cards
like Change of Target or Obedience aren't played.
The difference is that Telepathic Counter can be played if they have
more stealth than you have intercept or before you have declared whether
or not you intend to block. Whereas, Deflection is played instead of
blocking.
Either way, I'll talk to LSJ when I see him on Saturday and ask him to
ring in on this. Since Faceless Night is a commonly used card, it might
be a good idea to get his opinion on the matter before the tournament
that morning.
Regards,
Noal McDonald
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
LSJ
> kindred_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > would that mean that someone could declare a block, wait to see
> > if see if the opposing minion could any stealth, then CHOOSE to
> > play deflection???
>
> Yes and no.
>
> If they choose to play no additional stealth, your block is successful
> and you have no opportunity to play the Deflection. If they play
> stealth, than you can choose to play Deflection, rather than continue
> the block attempt.
Correct.
> However, if the stealth card is Faceless Night, you
> get tapped before Deflection because by directing the action to
> another player, you are no longer attempting to block it.
Not quite. Since the "by directing it to another player" doesn't
happen "before" playing Deflection, you can't draw the conclusion
you have drawn above.
The "I don't block" is implicit in the playing of Deflection, but
that doesn't mean that it preceedes the playing of Deflection.
After Faceless Night is played, the would-be blocker can play
Deflection (and would immediately become tapped, even if Deflection
is played at superior, by the Faceless Night effect).
Corollary: blood burned for failing to block after a Forced Awakening
would be burned after paying the cost for Deflection:
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=518858107
(Because you don't "choose not to block" until the Deflection is
paid).
> > what about 2nd Tradition? Does that mean I could play 2nd Tradition
> > and then CHOOSE to deflect as long as I declare a block?
>
> No. Same as above. Since 2nd Tradition requires a block attempt, which
> means that the two minions must go into combat unless more stealth is
> played than your current intercept. [...]
Correct.
> The difference is that Telepathic Counter can be played if they have
> more stealth than you have intercept or before you have declared
> whether or not you intend to block. Whereas, Deflection is played
> instead of blocking.
Right. You can play Telepathic Counter in the middle of a block
attempt, but doing so won't abort the block attempt.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
kp...@my-deja.com
So if A is bleeding, and B attempts to block:
1) A declares bleed
2) B declares block
3) A places faceless night (sup)
4) B plays deflection (sup) and taps;
bleed is bounced to another methusalah, who attempts to block with C
5) C declares block, using intercept from sport bike
6) A places lost in crowds
7) C deflects back to original target (B)
Can B still attempt to block? Or have they tapped because they played
the deflection?
Is C tapped as well a B?
LSJ
> So if A is bleeding, and B attempts to block:
> 1) A declares bleed
> 2) B declares block
> 3) A places faceless night (sup)
> 4) B plays deflection (sup) and taps;
> bleed is bounced to another methusalah, who attempts to block with C
> 5) C declares block, using intercept from sport bike
> 6) A places lost in crowds
> 7) C deflects back to original target (B)
>
> Can B still attempt to block? Or have they tapped because they played
> the deflection?
He has tapped (see step 4).
> Is C tapped as well a B?
Yes.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.