Combat avoidance assistance
Talo...@hotmail.com
dodges but preferably combat ends.
But things like immortal grapple and thoughts betrayed puts the kibosh
to that idea.
The only other solution I can think of is obedience and
elysium/purchase pact.
So, is there other options?
T
Peter D Bakija
>>If you're trying to avoid combat altogether, the obvious solution is
dodges but preferably combat ends.>>
Dodge isn't that useful--presses and additional strikes still kill you. If you
expect to run into combat decks, Dodges are less effective in every case than
S:CE (if you can play a dodge, you can play a S:CE, and if you couldn't play a
S:CE, you couldn't play a dodge either, generally speaking). Only use dodges if
A) you don't have access to S:CE and want some light occasional combat defense
or B) you are a combat deck yourself and want to be able to dodge/additional
strike to foil other non IG based combat decks.
>>But things like immortal grapple and thoughts betrayed puts the kibosh
to that idea.>>
Yup.
>>The only other solution I can think of is obedience and
elysium/purchase pact.>>
Obediance is a very strong option, but you have to be older than your opponent,
and you need to be untapped (or use Wake) to play it. Fortitude is good, but
card intensive--Skin of Steel and Superior Mettle are both very useful for
slowing down combat decks. Protean has both aggro damage (which often is the
death knell for Rush combat decks) and Flesh of Marble, which is *incredibly*
effective against Potence. Even simple manuvers are often all you need to stay
alive--the IG Rush deck doesn't usually have room for all that many manuvers,
so a good supply of, say, Flash can often foil many important attacks. Fighting
back is also a good combat defense--a handfull of Potence or Protean can easily
slow down an opposing combat deck.
Elisium/Purchase Pact aren't actually that useful, as Elisium only works with
Camarilla vs Camarilla, and Purchase Pact only works with Sabbat vs Sabbat.
Peter D Bakija
PD...@aol.com
http://www.geocities.com/bakija6
"She's a hero you see.
She's not like us."
-Giles
Damnans
Yes:
Stealth
Change of Target
Maneuvering at long range
Damage prevention
Kiss of Ra
Daring the Dawn
Direct Intervention works fine against Immortal Graple and Thoughts
Betrayed (when it not your turn ;) ).
etc.
Greetings,
Damnans
Peter D Bakija
>>Stealth
Change of Target>>
These two only prevent you from getting blocked. The kinds of combat decks that
you need to worry about aren't ones that block you.
>>Maneuvering at long range
Damage prevention>>
These two are valid--mosk folks underestimate the defensive potential of
manuvers. If an IG based Rush deck has more than, say, 8-10 manuvers in it, it
will start to suffer when facing a non manuver based defense, thus, the IG Rush
deck generally lowballs on the manuvers.
Tha Assamites, on the other hand, are gonna be trouble. Luckily, the Assimites
are foiled by S:CE...
>>Kiss of Ra
Daring the Dawn>>
Again, these keep you from getting killed by a block, but again, the
combatdecks that actually kill you don't even try to block, generally speaking.
>>Direct Intervention works fine against Immortal Graple and Thoughts
Betrayed (when it not your turn ;) ).>>
Well, sort of. You pay a pool to DI their IG or TB, and thay just play another
one, while you can't play another DI.
Reyda
"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@aol.comANTISPAM> a écrit dans le message news:
20010804102917...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
(snip nice analysis from combat king PDB6 =] )
Just to precise something :
> >>Direct Intervention works fine against Immortal Graple and Thoughts
> Betrayed (when it not your turn ;) ).>>
>
> Well, sort of. You pay a pool to DI their IG or TB, and thay just play
another
> one, while you can't play another DI.
Card text says that only one IG can be played in a given round of combat. So
playing D.I. to cancel IG results in "no other IG can be played", thus you
can use your combat ends strike freely. For this reason, D.I. can save the
(un)life of one of your vampires.
Same thing for Watenda with a presence card : he can cancel a IG as it is
played, then play majesty once each combat, making him a really hard target.
reyda
Peter D Bakija
>>Card text says that only one IG can be played in a given round of combat. So
playing D.I. to cancel IG results in "no other IG can be played", thus you
can use your combat ends strike freely. For this reason, D.I. can save the
(un)life of one of your vampires.>>
Are you sure? I though of that after I posted my response, and am always a
little unsure as to what the actual effect of DI is--does it cancel the card as
if it had never been played ('cause if the card that gets DI'ed has a blood
cost, you get your blood back, and if it is an action, it doesn't count for
purposes of NRA rules), or is it played and then canceled? I just don't know,
so I might have been wrong about getting to play a second IG after it has been
DI'ed. LSJ?
Sacha
> playing D.I. to cancel IG results in "no other IG can be played", thus you
> can use your combat ends strike freely. For this reason, D.I. can save the
> (un)life of one of your vampires.
> Same thing for Watenda with a presence card : he can cancel a IG as it is
> played, then play majesty once each combat, making him a really hard target.
This is an issue that I have run into many times before, and have
often had vamps burned because I was unable to win the argument that
insues because of this card (Ig). I find that very often people try to
use this card as a trap (albeit {imo} incorrectly).
The first round they play Ig and pound the hell out of my vamp, then
the second round they play it again.
Now the text of Ig states:
Immortal Grapple
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Potence
Only usable at close range before strikes are chosen.
[pot] Strikes that are not hand strikes may not <be> used this round
(by either combatant). A vampire may play only one Immortal Grapple
each round.
[POT] As above, with an optional press. If another round of combat
occurs, that round is at close range;
skip the Determine Range step for that round.
Can the Vamp play the same combat card over and over again? I thought
NRA prevented this?
Perhaps NRA needs to be better defined or perhaps simplified so the
average idiot (me) can figure out how the hell to play this game
correctly.
Just my 2 cents.
Pc.
Noal McDonald
> Can the Vamp play the same combat card over and over again? I thought
> NRA prevented this?
NRA has absolutely nothing to do with combat.
In constructed tournaments, NRA (No Repeat Actions) dictates that a
minion may not take the same action twice. For example, a minion may
only hunt, bleed, Govern the Unaligned (either version), use a copy of
Haven Uncovered on a vampire to enter combat (note: if two Haven
Uncovered cards are on a vampire, minions may use each one to enter
combat twice), etc. once per turn.
Rules also dictate that each minion may only play one named action
modifier or reaction card (as appropriate) per action. Two minions may
play two Dread Gaze cards (one each) on the same political action, but
one minion may not play Dread Gaze twice.
None of the above rules has any bearing on combat cards. Unless a combat
card specifically states a restriction on use, such as the 1 per round
restriction of IG, you may play as many copies of a card as you like
during combat. For example, I can play 88 Increased Strength, 1 Immortal
Grapple and 1 Pushing the Limit if the mood takes me.
Regards,
Noal McDonald
VEKN Prince of Metro Detroit
Reyda
"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@aol.comANTISPAM> a écrit dans le message news:
> Redya wrote:
> >>Card text says that only one IG can be played in a given round of
combat. So
> playing D.I. to cancel IG results in "no other IG can be played", thus you
> can use your combat ends strike freely. For this reason, D.I. can save the
> (un)life of one of your vampires.>>
>
> Are you sure? I though of that after I posted my response, and am always a
> little unsure as to what the actual effect of DI is--does it cancel the
card as
> if it had never been played ('cause if the card that gets DI'ed has a
blood
> cost, you get your blood back, and if it is an action, it doesn't count
for
> purposes of NRA rules), or is it played and then canceled? I just don't
know,
> so I might have been wrong about getting to play a second IG after it has
been
> DI'ed. LSJ?
>
DI does cancel the card, but not "as if it wasn't played". If you play "DI"
a Bonding when bled, opponent cannot play bonding again -however, he can
still play any action modifier or bleed modifier.
If you play DI on reality mirror, too bad, your opponent cannot play
reality mirror for the rest of the game.
My english is crappy so i can't explain it well but it sounds like "The card
has been played, but is burned with no effect". Still, if the target of DI
is a card restricted as one per action (like action modifiers or reaction
cards by the same vampire) or one per round, this card cannot be played
again. I play 6 D.I. In my toreador intercept deck just to counter Kiss of
Ra, knowing it cannot be played again when i cancel it. If opponent doesn't
have fortitude, fine, i use them for an other annoying purpose (canceling
DotB, Forgotten Labyrinth, IG, and more...)
reyda
James Coupe
Bakija <pd...@aol.comANTISPAM> writes
>Are you sure? I though of that after I posted my response, and am always a
>little unsure as to what the actual effect of DI is--does it cancel the card as
>if it had never been played ('cause if the card that gets DI'ed has a blood
>cost, you get your blood back, and if it is an action, it doesn't count for
>purposes of NRA rules), or is it played and then canceled?
Any card which is DI-ed ends up with:
- no effect
- no cost (cost retrieved etc.)
- but the card has been played
e.g. I DI your copy of Bonding. You can't play Bonding again, because
that would be repeat action modifiers. You could play Threats, however,
because Bonding's card text never kicked in.
In this instance, IG has been played and cancelled. No effect is had,
but the game remembers that IG has been played. Thus the *second* IG
prevents itself from being played, due to its card text of one per
round.
A parallel situation exists with Giant's Blood. A Suddenly Reversed
Giant's Blood has no effect, but it is remembered that Giant's Blood has
been played. Thus, a second Giant's Blood remembers the first one and
the *second* copy's card text prevents it being played.
--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
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