Lydia, nice to have around?
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different
wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised
that maybe it wasnt just a different wording.
Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of
other players?
I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in
the rules.
Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below.
Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6,
[HttB]
Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can
burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require
Celerity. Scarce.
William Biltmore, 9, AUS DEM dom OBF THA, Malkavian, 3, [CE:V/PM]
Camarilla: Once each action, William can burn 1 blood to get +1
stealth. +1 bleed.
Zayyat, The Sandstorm, 10, aus qui tha ANI FOR PRO, Gangrel, 3,
[Anarchs:U2]
Independent: Zayyat has 2 votes. Zayyat can move up to 3 blood from
himself to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled region as a +1
stealth action. Once each turn, he can burn 2 blood to get +2 stealth
for the current action.
Maxwell, 9, CEL FOR POT PRE PRO, Brujah, 3, [CE:V]
Camarilla: Once each turn, Maxwell can burn a blood to get +1 stealth
on an action that requires Presence. If he doesn't have a title, he
can call a referendum to become the Prince of Chicago as a +1 stealth
action.
Klaital
If she could give stealth to anyone then her ability would read 'can
give the acting minion +1 stealth' it lacks that text so she can only
use it to give herself stealth.
Shockwave
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, looking through the new vampires I stopped at Lydia, and looked at
> her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different
> wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised
> that maybe it wasnt just a different wording.
>
> Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of
> other players?
> I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in
> the rules.
>
> Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below.
Surely the best Vampire to compare her to would be Maris Streck, who
does have this capability, except for Intercept.
Maris Streck
Clan: Malkavian (group 3)
Capacity: 9
Disciplines: AUS OBF ani dem dom
Camarilla Malkavian Justicar: Maris can burn a blood to give a
blocking minion +1 intercept. She can take a +1 stealth action to
allow you to look at and rearrange the top 5 cards of your library.
Based on her text, I'd guess the answer is no, just because Maris has
specific text allowing it. IANLSJ.
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
I agree that it seems logical and the also the most balanced. Is there
a section in the rules stating that effects like this need to specify
that they can effect other minions, otherwise they can only affect the
minion? You could easily argue that since the other examples specify
that it effects the particular vampire, the lack of such a clause,
would mean that it can be used on everyone. I cant find any, but I
might have missed something.
If it is indeed the case, then I am led back to my initial gripe with
this, which is the clear difference in wording when comparing to cards
with similar effects. I cant see a reason for the different wording -
other than some sinister, conniving plan to confuse everyone - but
again, I might be missing something,
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
I kind of hope that the answer is no as well, hehe
But if by your argument we agree that Lydia cannot give stealth to
others, then surely the best vampires to compare her to, would be the
three I mentioned, since the effects are identical to that, and not to
an ability giving intercept. :)
suoli
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, looking through the new vampires I stopped at Lydia, and looked at
> her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different
> wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised
> that maybe it wasnt just a different wording.
>
> Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of
> other players?
> I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in
> the rules.
>
> Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below.
>
> Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6,
> [HttB]
> Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can
> burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require
> Celerity. Scarce.
In plain English 'X may do y for z' means that X gets z for doing y. I
can't think of another logical way to interpret it.
LSJ
> On 25 helmi, 18:24, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt"
> <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of
> > other players?
> > Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6,
> > Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can
> > burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require
> > Celerity. Scarce.
> If she could give stealth to anyone then her ability would read 'can
> give the acting minion +1 stealth' it lacks that text so she can only
> use it to give herself stealth.
Correct.
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
So it should be worded like the other ones, right?
suoli
It could be more convenient, sure. On the other hand, I recall
complaints about the length of card texts and the difficulties it
presents to new players.
suoli
Never mind, "for" isn't actually any shorter than "get".
LSJ
Is it shorter than "to get"?
echia...@yahoo.com
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, looking through the new vampires I stopped at Lydia, and looked at
> her special. I have always bin a bit annoyed with the many different
> wordings for similar effects on the cards, but in this case I realised
> that maybe it wasnt just a different wording.
>
> Can she use her ability on other minions than herself? On minions of
> other players?
> I couldnt see anything on the cardtext preventing that, and nothing in
> the rules.
>
> Compare to vampires with similar effects posted below.
>
> Lydia, Grand Praetor, 9, AUS FOR POT TEM dom pre, True Brujah, 6,
> [HttB]
> Independent: Lydia has one vote (titled). Once each action she can
> burn a blood for +1 stealth. She cannot play cards that require
> Celerity. Scarce.
LSJ has already given the official answer.
If you want another analogy: Lots of vampires have specials where they
can burn blood to do something during combat. (Lambach, Karsh, etc.).
Technically, their card text does not specify that they have to be the
one in combat to do this. (So if you want to burn blood off of that
vampire, you could argue that Lambach should be able to burn blood for
aggravated damage while other minions are in combat). But in previous
discussions, LSJ has clarified that such specials can only be used
when that minion is in combat. It is sort of implied (just like with
Lydia).
If anything, the better interpretation is that Lydia could burn a
blood to give *herself* +1 stealth when someone else is acting (it
says she burns the blood for stealth - not that someone else gets the
stealth). So getting stealth when you're not acting is sort of useless
(like getting agg hands when you're not in combat). Plus, there's a
specific rule against gaining stealth unless you need it (which you
don't if you're not acting).
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
Thanks. Is there a special reason for the different wording of her
ability? Are there any situations where it will differ from the 3
other examples?
LSJ
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks. Is there a special reason for the different wording of her
> ability? Are there any situations where it will differ from the 3
> other examples?
As mentioned, it's shorter.
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
Makes sense. Short is good (unless you are a dwarf living in a sky
scraper).
Are you using templates when creating cards so all future vampires
with this ability will have the recent wording? Will the wording on
the online card list be updated to ensure that potential future
reprints also use that wording?
Sorry to be a pain, but I have introduced a ton of people to the game
since I started playing, and when explaining rules to people who have
CTCG experience, I have had numerous questions on different wordings
through the years. Sometimes its hard to see whether the change was
due to a new ruling or to clarify or like in this case where its just
shorter. It just all adds to the confusion, and to make the rules even
harder to get into.
LSJ
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 1:53 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 26, 3:35 am, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt"
>
> > <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks. Is there a special reason for the different wording of her
> > > ability? Are there any situations where it will differ from the 3
> > > other examples?
>
> > As mentioned, it's shorter.
>
> Makes sense. Short is good (unless you are a dwarf living in a sky
> scraper).
>
> Are you using templates when creating cards so all future vampires
> with this ability will have the recent wording? Will the wording on
> the online card list be updated to ensure that potential future
> reprints also use that wording?
Well, when it's something as minor as this ("x for y" or "x to get
y"), where no confusion is on the line, I don't worry too much about
it, no.