DECK- Black hand Auspex
sutekh_23
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 10 average: 4.92
------------------------------------------------------------
2x Dominique Santo Pa 6 AUS CEL pot pre !Toreador:4
2x Gabriel de Cambrai 5 aus cel dem obf pre !Toreador:4
1x Marthe Dizier 10 AUS CEL OBF PRE pro !Toreador:3
1x Colonel, The 5 AUS cel dem obf !Malkavian:3
1x Cristos Mantigo 5 aus cel dom obf pre !Toreador:3
1x Mariano Pomposo 4 aus cel pot !Brujah:3
1x Roger Farnsworth 4 OBF aus !Malkavian:3
1x Sabrina 4 aus cel pre !Toreador:3
1x Monique Kim 3 aus cel !Toreador:4
1x Piotr Andreikov 2 aus Tzimisce:3
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [5]
1x Abbot
2x Anima Gathering
2x Revelations
Action Modifier [3]
3x Hidden Lurker
Combat [29]
4x Aura Reading
6x Blur
4x Flash
8x Psychic Assault
7x Target Vitals
Equipment [4]
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Guarded Rubrics
1x Ivory Bow
1x Sengir Dagger
Master [18]
4x Auspex
3x Blood Doll
1x Census Taker
2x Effective Management
1x Foundation Exhibit
1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
1x Palla Grande
2x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
3x Vessel
Political Action [2]
2x Perpetual Care
Reaction [29]
5x Eagle's Sight
3x Fast Reaction
4x Forced Awakening
4x On the Qui Vive
2x Quicken Sight
8x Telepathic Misdirection
3x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Sun May 11 07:43:04 2008]
My first attempt at a black hand wallish sort of deck. Any comments,
criticism's and improvements welcome.
Sutekh_23
The Lasombra
>Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 10 average: 4.92
>------------------------------------------------------------
>2x Dominique Santo Pa 6 AUS CEL pot pre !Toreador:4
>2x Gabriel de Cambrai 5 aus cel dem obf pre !Toreador:4
>1x Marthe Dizier 10 AUS CEL OBF PRE pro !Toreador:3
>1x Colonel, The 5 AUS cel dem obf !Malkavian:3
>1x Cristos Mantigo 5 aus cel dom obf pre !Toreador:3
>1x Mariano Pomposo 4 aus cel pot !Brujah:3
>1x Roger Farnsworth 4 OBF aus !Malkavian:3
>1x Sabrina 4 aus cel pre !Toreador:3
>1x Monique Kim 3 aus cel !Toreador:4
>1x Piotr Andreikov 2 aus Tzimisce:3
I think you could have some better crypt choices.
See also:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/rgtcjdeckarchive/message/4969
or
http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/Eyeing_the_Black_Hand.htm
for an older approach.
>Library [90 cards]
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Action [5]
> 1x Abbot
> 2x Anima Gathering
> 2x Revelations
I would go all Abbot over Anima Gathering.
Reunion Kamut for some pool gain/minion advantage?
>Action Modifier [3]
> 3x Hidden Lurker
I have almost never found these to be useful. Did you consider Cloak
the Gathering and Veil the Legions instead?
>Combat [29]
> 4x Aura Reading
> 6x Blur
> 4x Flash
> 8x Psychic Assault
> 7x Target Vitals
Perhaps Backstep or High Ground instead of Flash? Easily used by all
of your vampires to get that long range that favors the Psychic
Assaults.
>Equipment [4]
> 1x Bowl of Convergence
> 1x Guarded Rubrics
> 1x Ivory Bow
> 1x Sengir Dagger
>Master [18]
> 4x Auspex
Perhaps Channel 10 or WMRH instead of some of these? Build your own
minion is a nice theory, but it does not work well in practice. You
would like to have your master phase actions do more for you than
these cards will.
> 3x Blood Doll
> 1x Census Taker
> 2x Effective Management
I think these two slots could be better utilized. Vast Wealth,
perhaps, to go grab those few pieces of esssential equipment. The
Rack, to help with blood regain.
> 1x Foundation Exhibit
> 1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
> 1x Palla Grande
> 2x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
> 3x Vessel
Perhaps some way to regain the blood you are siphoning off with
Vessel/Blood Doll? Weeping Stone or Hunting Ground?
>Political Action [2]
> 2x Perpetual Care
I think that you are extremely unlikely to pass these. Try it out
though, and let us know.
>Reaction [29]
> 5x Eagle's Sight
> 3x Fast Reaction
> 4x Forced Awakening
> 4x On the Qui Vive
> 2x Quicken Sight
> 8x Telepathic Misdirection
> 3x Wake with Evening's Freshness
I don't believe Fast Reaction will get the results you are desiring.
It falls into the same camp as Hidden Lurker, i.e. using 2 minions to
accomplish what the first one should have. Perhaps these would be
better off as Ministry?
>Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Sun May 11 07:43:04 2008]
>My first attempt at a black hand wallish sort of deck. Any comments,
>criticism's and improvements welcome.
Good luck!
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
Archivist to great deck builders.
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Malone
My experience so far is that Black Hand Psychic Assault + Target
Vitals is very serious business.
Fame? A rush or two in case you're not blocking or getting blocked?
sutekh_23
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:48:36 -0700 (PDT), sutekh_23 wrote:
> >Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 10 average: 4.92
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >2x Dominique Santo Pa 6 AUS CEL pot pre !Toreador:4
> >2x Gabriel de Cambrai 5 aus cel dem obf pre !Toreador:4
> >1x Marthe Dizier 10 AUS CEL OBF PRE pro !Toreador:3
> >1x Colonel, The 5 AUS cel dem obf !Malkavian:3
> >1x Cristos Mantigo 5 aus cel dom obf pre !Toreador:3
> >1x Mariano Pomposo 4 aus cel pot !Brujah:3
> >1x Roger Farnsworth 4 OBF aus !Malkavian:3
> >1x Sabrina 4 aus cel pre !Toreador:3
> >1x Monique Kim 3 aus cel !Toreador:4
> >1x Piotr Andreikov 2 aus Tzimisce:3
>
> I think you could have some better crypt choices.
>
concentrate on Aus/AUS weenies but that would make the foundation
exhibit, palla grande and perpetual care's next to useless. I'm
working on a more pure AUS deck, I'll post it shortly.
>
> >Library [90 cards]
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >Action [5]
> > 1x Abbot
> > 2x Anima Gathering
> > 2x Revelations
>
> I would go all Abbot over Anima Gathering.
> Reunion Kamut for some pool gain/minion advantage?
Unfortunately with the, thats more of a card ownership issue as
opposed to desire. :( I was considering some RK and some Art scams
but ran out of deckspace.
>
> >Action Modifier [3]
> > 3x Hidden Lurker
>
> I have almost never found these to be useful. Did you consider Cloak
> the Gathering and Veil the Legions instead?
Cloaks and veils were in the first incarnation of the deck but I found
that for the local area, the one extra stealth was not going to make
much difference.
>
> >Combat [29]
> > 4x Aura Reading
> > 6x Blur
> > 4x Flash
> > 8x Psychic Assault
> > 7x Target Vitals
>
> Perhaps Backstep or High Ground instead of Flash? Easily used by all
> of your vampires to get that long range that favors the Psychic
> Assaults.
Not a bad idea.
>
> >Equipment [4]
> > 1x Bowl of Convergence
> > 1x Guarded Rubrics
> > 1x Ivory Bow
> > 1x Sengir Dagger
> >Master [18]
> > 4x Auspex
>
> Perhaps Channel 10 or WMRH instead of some of these? Build your own
> minion is a nice theory, but it does not work well in practice. You
> would like to have your master phase actions do more for you than
> these cards will.
>
Without AUS, I don't see all the mucking around for psychic assault to
be really worth it, I'd probably be better off with .44's like the
second deck you linked on your post. I'll give it a go and see how it
works out however.
> > 3x Blood Doll
> > 1x Census Taker
> > 2x Effective Management
>
> I think these two slots could be better utilized. Vast Wealth,
> perhaps, to go grab those few pieces of esssential equipment. The
> Rack, to help with blood regain.
Maybe, the rack sure, vast wealth, perhaps not. Cristos has an inbuilt
VW, so I'm not real sold on it.
> > 1x Foundation Exhibit
> > 1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
> > 1x Palla Grande
> > 2x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
> > 3x Vessel
>
> Perhaps some way to regain the blood you are siphoning off with
> Vessel/Blood Doll? Weeping Stone or Hunting Ground?
>
The rack i think would do, but sure. The original idea was to use
tastes but they sorta fell out somewhere.....
> >Political Action [2]
> > 2x Perpetual Care
>
> I think that you are extremely unlikely to pass these. Try it out
> though, and let us know.
>
Will do :)
> >Reaction [29]
> > 5x Eagle's Sight
> > 3x Fast Reaction
> > 4x Forced Awakening
> > 4x On the Qui Vive
> > 2x Quicken Sight
> > 8x Telepathic Misdirection
> > 3x Wake with Evening's Freshness
>
> I don't believe Fast Reaction will get the results you are desiring.
> It falls into the same camp as Hidden Lurker, i.e. using 2 minions to
> accomplish what the first one should have. Perhaps these would be
> better off as Ministry?
I know HL and FR get a pretty bad stick due to the multiple minion
aspect, but my plan was to just keep bleeding for 1 with the multiple
minions until my prey just has to block. I've never used either before
so i'll give them a run. if they fall on their ass, I'll give them the
flick.
>
> >Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Sun May 11 07:43:04 2008]
> >My first attempt at a black hand wallish sort of deck. Any comments,
> >criticism's and improvements welcome.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Carpe noctem.
>
> Lasombra
Thanks!
Sutekh_23
sutekh_23
>
> My experience so far is that Black Hand Psychic Assault + Target
> Vitals is very serious business.
>
> Fame? A rush or two in case you're not blocking or getting blocked?
err..... oops :)
Sutekh_23
sul...@aol.com
Maybe, my analysis of my deck would help.
Deck Name: 071122 Assault - Vitals
Created By: Dominique Santo Paulo
Description:
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 23, Max: 36, Avg: 7)
-------------------------------------------
1 Dr. Morrow for AUS VIC 5 Tzimisce
1 Kestrelle Hayes dom for obt AUS 6 Ventrue
Antitribu
1 Hagar Stone obf AUS DEM 6 Malkavian
Antitribu
3 Dominique Santo Paulo pot pre AUS CEL 6 Toreador
Antitribu
1 Sennadurek dom AUS NEC 6 Nagaraja
2 Ash Harrison cel dom AUS THA 7 Tremere
Antitribu
2 Ondine 'Boudicca' Sinclair obt AUS CEL PRE PRO9 Toreador
Antitribu
1 Elimelech the Twice-Damned pro AUS DEM DOM FOR OBF11
Ventrue Antitribu
There's not a lot of difference in AUS BH between 3/4 and 4/5, but 3/4
has Tupdog, so this was likely more of a play new cards kind of deal.
As you might imagine, this deck doesn't tend to get out a lot of
minions where your deck can. I'd rate the lack of volume as a
significant problem.
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (21 cards)
2 Dominion
1 Drop Point Network
1 Census Taker
6 Corporal Reservoir
1 Hand Contract
1 Weeping Stone
3 Celerity
6 Blood Doll
Drop Point hasn't done anything yet. Dominion has been the only
disincentive to block tool up actions. Never draw Census Taker to see
if it isn't as bad as I think it is. Overall, just an underpowered
suite with a lot of missing good stuff masters.
Action (1 cards)
1 Black Hand Ritual
Reaction (25 cards)
3 Truth in Ink
3 Telepathic Counter
6 Telepathic Misdirection
2 My Enemy`s Enemy
6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
2 On the Qui Vive
2 Fillip
1 Quicken Sight
I've forgotten Fillip is in here and done some really dumb things with
placing skill cards. Should be something I don't have to think about,
like more Vive or some Forceds. Not much in the way of real
intercept, too passively bleed focussed on defense.
Combat (36 cards)
15 Psychic Assault
8 Target Vitals
2 Target Hand
6 Taste of Vitae
4 Pursuit
1 Acrobatics
Really should run more maneuvers. It's just tedious getting punched
for one all of the time and only having so many Tastes. The thing
about the combo is that any dead cards, like Fortitude prevent, aren't
dead cards, as they can just pitch them to TV. Unless you get tricky
about it, any attempts to jam someone on useless cards can be undone
by your own combo. It's more synergistic to do something like Breath
of the Dragon + TV where if you land in the first place, the target
explodes.
Ally (1 cards)
1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
Retainer (1 cards)
1 Mr. Winthrop
Equipment (3 cards)
1 Guarded Rubrics
1 Bowl of Convergence
1 Drum of Xipe Totec
Combo (2 cards)
2 Resist Earth`s Grasp
Overall, the offense is pathetic, the control elements are weak, the
combat is hit or miss and subject to hitback. Your deck does a better
job of addressing some of these, but I think both decks need to be a
lot tighter with more permacept, simpler maneuvers and/or prevent
(Flak, Leather, Guardian), more of an offensive plan at the cost of
marginal cards.
Izaak
Ash Harrington.
Anyway, I kinda like the Psychic Assault / TV auspex combat idea, since
nobody expects it :-). I'm at a loss why it's needed to be a Black Hand deck
though. You have like, what, 5 Black Hand required cards in the deck that
have limited use on top of it.
If you want to stick with the BH theme, at least use Ministry, Reunion and
Truth in Ink. Bloodwork may help a lot for ousting purposes and Corperal
Reservoir is actually pretty decent :-) in the "I have only so many tastes"
situation. Precognition is nice for this purpose as well, but you may have
more use for Spirit's Touch (or altenatively just maneuver with some High
Grounds).
I'd personally stay with Bowl and the Rubrics and make room for, I dunno,
two .44's or summat just for when you run out of oomph. These intercepty
decks usually cycle quick and you need something dangerous for the
inevitable endgame.
Finally, since defending your pool should be pretty easy, you can afford to
put some expensive master like weeping stone, hunting grounds and various
powerbases in it as well. Just to keep your pool and minions topped up.
sutekh_23
> >
> Ash Harrington.
>
Group 5 :(
> Anyway, I kinda like the Psychic Assault / TV auspex combat idea, since
> nobody expects it :-). I'm at a loss why it's needed to be a Black Hand deck
> though. You have like, what, 5 Black Hand required cards in the deck that
> have limited use on top of it.
>
otherwise I see it as a pretty ordinary card. Flung junk and guns are
much more efficient for sheer damage output.
> If you want to stick with the BH theme, at least use Ministry, Reunion and
> Truth in Ink. Bloodwork may help a lot for ousting purposes and Corperal
> Reservoir is actually pretty decent :-) in the "I have only so many tastes"
> situation. Precognition is nice for this purpose as well, but you may have
> more use for Spirit's Touch (or altenatively just maneuver with some High
> Grounds).
>
I think ministry is too expensive when I have so much auspex anyway.
Reunion, sure I can try too squeeze some in. I did consider the truth
in ink/ telepathic counter angle but came to the conclusion it was too
card intensive for this deck.
What really suprise's me is that both yourself and thelasombra have
suggested High ground for range control. I think the restrictions on
it just aren't worth it when most of the crypt has at least cel, that
might just be me however :)
> I'd personally stay with Bowl and the Rubrics and make room for, I dunno,
> two .44's or summat just for when you run out of oomph. These intercepty
> decks usually cycle quick and you need something dangerous for the
> inevitable endgame.
>
some gun backup may be in order, seems to be a common observation.
> Finally, since defending your pool should be pretty easy, you can afford to
> put some expensive master like weeping stone, hunting grounds and various
> powerbases in it as well. Just to keep your pool and minions topped up.
Thanks for the idea's :)
Sutekh_23
Izaak
>>
> Group 5 :(
Well, sure. 1R Aggrevated as well :-)
Besides, 4/5 has an *excellent* BH auspex crypt; for example:
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 22, Max: 30, Avg: 6,33)
----------------------------------------------
1 Dr. Morrow for AUS VIC 5 Tzimisce
1 Kestrelle Hayes dom for obt AUS 6 Ventrue Antitribu
1 Hagar Stone obf AUS DEM 6 Malkavian
Antitribu
2 Dominique Santo Paulo pot pre AUS CEL 6 Toreador Antitribu
2 Sennadurek dom AUS NEC 6 Nagaraja
3 Ash Harrison cel dom AUS THA 7 Tremere Antitribu
1 Carmen aus dom THA 5 Tremere Antitribu
1 Ondine 'Boudicca' Sinclair obt AUS CEL PRE PRO9 Toreador
Antitribu
It even provides you with a fair amount of Dominate :-)
>> Anyway, I kinda like the Psychic Assault / TV auspex combat idea, since
>> nobody expects it :-). I'm at a loss why it's needed to be a Black Hand
>> deck
>> though. You have like, what, 5 Black Hand required cards in the deck that
>> have limited use on top of it.
>>
> Psychic Assault is only unpreventable when being used by a BH vamp,
> otherwise I see it as a pretty ordinary card. Flung junk and guns are
> much more efficient for sheer damage output.
Fair enough. It's just that IME, combat prevention is very uncommon, if not
rare. And as pointed out earlier, for decks that *can* prevent the damage,
you playing Target Vitals is actually a good way of them getting rid of
their prevent anyway.
>> If you want to stick with the BH theme, at least use Ministry, Reunion
>> and
>> Truth in Ink. Bloodwork may help a lot for ousting purposes and Corperal
>> Reservoir is actually pretty decent :-) in the "I have only so many
>> tastes"
>> situation. Precognition is nice for this purpose as well, but you may
>> have
>> more use for Spirit's Touch (or altenatively just maneuver with some High
>> Grounds).
>>
> I think ministry is too expensive when I have so much auspex anyway.
> Reunion, sure I can try too squeeze some in. I did consider the truth
> in ink/ telepathic counter angle but came to the conclusion it was too
> card intensive for this deck.
> What really suprise's me is that both yourself and thelasombra have
> suggested High ground for range control. I think the restrictions on
> it just aren't worth it when most of the crypt has at least cel, that
> might just be me however :)
It stems mostly from the fact that neither Lasombra or me sticks to the cel
part of the crypt. Simply put, for Black Hand aus/AUS there are better
crypts available and if you want to go with the AUS/cel !Tor theme and play
Palla Grande, just build a !Tor crypt and mess around with Cadet and
Blooding. Also I don't think the restrictions on High Ground are bad at all.
It's a maneuver to go to long and that's it. Sure, you can play only 1 a
round. Not really that a bothersome restriction.
The Name Forgotten
>
> > Psychic Assault is only unpreventable when being used by a BH vamp,
> > otherwise I see it as a pretty ordinary card. Flung junk and guns are
> > much more efficient for sheer damage output.
>
> Fair enough. It's just that IME, combat prevention is very uncommon, if not
> rare. And as pointed out earlier, for decks that *can* prevent the damage,
> you playing Target Vitals is actually a good way of them getting rid of
> their prevent anyway.
Our metagame here does use a fair amount of prevention, probably as
much as S:CE. Target Vitals forces them to toss out 2 prevention
cards, which these decks will probably need against other decks as
well. Sometimes it will be tossed, sometimes it won't, but my
experience with T:V-heavy decks here is that, if they land, they tend
to not get cancelled.
The changes I'd make, knowing our metagame, is to drop the tiny vote
angle, pick up more permacept (like Mr. Winthrop and Sports Bike), and
toss in a Primal Instincts somewhere. The surprise factor on that is
high if you manage to pull it off when you're on the offensive
(manuever to far, wave [shake your head in disappointment], they
declare a wave back instead of dodging or ending combat, primal
instincts to change your strike, and whack em for 4). Do that once,
and they'll still cycle through their combat ends and dodges even when
you don't have the strike.
Guns, as suggested, is a very good idea - as with all decks focussed
on combat, you need to get as much out of as few cards as possible, so
a manuever and strike can really help when the pressure is on and you
can't cycle through your cards fast enough. Drop 2 blurs, a Hidden and
a Fast Reactions for .44's.
I'd also ditch the smiling jacks, though, as you'll have a tough time
holding onto them with the amount of intercept you do have - someone
is bound to be playing a heavy-stealth deck, and will be going for
them even if they're across the table - especially since you've got
nothing in the deck to give them an incentive not to go for you.
Replace with a Pentex Subversion and an Anarch Troublemaker to give
you a lunge advantage.