Hector Sosa, card erratta?
Thomas R Wylie
Algustas <cfr...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> Does anyone have a listing of V:tes card errata? In particular,
>I assume Hector Sosa is misprinted, as his V:tes card only gives him low
>level potence....
Blagh! Well, included below is the Duelist article in the Jyhad->VTES
changes, which includes the card errata. Add Hector to that list, I guess :(
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
FROM JYHAD TO VAMPIRE: THE ETERNAL STRUGGLE
by Paul Peterson and Tom Wylie
It has taken over a year for the unlimited version of Jyhad to hit the streets,
but for fans of the game it's well worth the wait. The rules have been reworked
to make them clearer, and there is a new basic game that is easier to learn. A
few cards have been replaced, and most of the others have been reworded. All of
these changes have been made to give novices and veteran players a more
accessible and more enjoyable game: Vampire: The Eternal Struggle.
The New Rules
One of the biggest problems with Jyhad was that players, particularly
new players, found the rulebook difficult to understand. In the unlimited
edition, the rules have been reorganized and rewritten to make them more
accessible. The information about the atmosphere and setting of the game,
formerly at the beginnning of the rulebook, has been moved to an appendix, to
be read after the player is more familiar with the rules of the game. The rules
themselves have been clarified and simplified, many of the sections have been
rewritten, and the more complex phases of the game have been broken down into
outline form to make them easier to follow.
There are also two important rules changes. First, the term "paralyze"
was dropped because it required an obscure and confusing rule that only applied
to two cards in the set (see "The New Cards," below). The second major change
concerns aggravated damage. In Jyhad, the first point of aggravated damage did
not remove a blood counter from a vampire, but merely sent the vampire into
torpor. This rule was more confusing than helpful, so it was changed: in V:TES,
the first point of aggravated damage inflicted removes a blood counter from the
vampire and sends that vampire to torpor. Thus, if the aggravated damage taken
by the vampire exceeds its blood supply by 1 point, that vampire is burned. (In
Jyhad, the vampire needed to take two extra points of aggravated damage to be
burned.)
The biggest change to the rulebook was the inclusion of a set of Basic
Rules, a simplified version of the game designed to help teach a new player the
core rules. Under the Basic Rules, all of the cards that deal with maneuvers,
presses, additional strikes, intercept, and torpor are removed from your deck.
In addition, all types of damage are simply treated as normal damage.
The Basic Rules are not designed for more advanced players or for
constructed decks. Certain strategies are more powerful in the basic game than
in the advanced game. For example, there is no intercept in the basic game, but
there is stealth. This means that any action that is performed at an increased
stealth is essentially unblockable. If constructed decks were played under the
Basic Rules, decks relying on stealth would have an unfair advantage. The Basic
Rules are best played with the random mix of cards in an untuned starter deck.
The New Cards
With the unlimited edition of the game, the card mix has been altered.
Certain cards were removed because of the changes in the rules. For example,
Rowan's Ring was removed because the rules for paralyzing were dropped. (The
Stake card, which also used the term "paralyze," became the Wooden Stake card
and was reworded to mimic the paralyze rules.)
Some cards were removed because they were inferior versions of other
cards. The Chainsaw was just a Sawed-Off Shotgun that didn't do ranged damage,
so it was removed to make room for a new card. Disguised Weapon and Movement of
the Slow Body also were removed because they were inferior to other cards.
Other cards were removed because they were too confusing. Monocle of
Clarity was constantly raising questions about the types of questions you could
and could not ask. This card in particular was removed because it was ripe for
abuse.
New Wordings
Also, many of the cards have been reworded. In cleaning up the
wordings, we tried to clarify exactly what a specific card does when played and
when the card is played. We also made sure that all of the cards that have
similar effects are similarly worded.
While most cards in the unlimited version play exactly the way they did
in Jyhad, some of them are functionally different. For example, most of the
cards which used to say "2 hand damage" have been changed to read "+1 hand
damage," making all such hand damage cumulative. Now a Bastard Sword can help a
vampire like Zack North, who already has increased hand damage; in Jyhad,
equipping Zack with the Sword wouldn't have been useful, since it could not
have increased his already-enhanced hand damage.
Note that not all of the cards that have been reworded have functional
changes. For example, several cards that deal damage outside of combat now say
that the "damage may not be prevented." However, this is not a functional
change to the set, as the rules only allow for preventing damage during strike
resolution.
We hope that these changes will make the game easier to understand and
more accessible to beginners. This new edition is part of our continuing effort
to improve Vampire: The Eternal Struggle so that fans of the game can continue
to enjoy it.
Functionally Different Cards in Vampire: The Eternal Struggle
Anarch Troublemaker's ability may now only be used during your untap
phase. The Jyhad version could be used at any time.
Ancient Influence now allows a player to lose 5 pool as a result of the
vote without choosing a vampire he or she controls and gaining pool equal to
that vampire's blood capacity. The Jyhad version required each player to choose
a ready vampire if he or she had any in play.
The V:TES version of Archon has errata: Attacking another vampire is a
directed action.
Multiple Army of Rats cards force your prey to burn 1 pool during
untap, regardless of how many Armies you have in play. The Jyhad version of
Army of Rats would burn 1 pool for each copy you had in play.
The V:TES version of Asylum Hunting Ground has errata: this card should
cost 2 pool.
Inferior Aura Reading now requires the affected player to play with an
open hand for the rest of the combat. The Jyhad version allowed the affected
player to keep the hand hidden while allowing other players to examine it for
the rest of the combat.
Bastard Sword now adds +1 damage to a minion's hand damage. With the
Jyhad version, the hand-damage bonus was not cumulative; thus, Bastard Sword
did not aid a minion that already had 2 hand damage.
Blood Bond is now a directed action. The V:TES version also has errata:
The player chooses the affected vampire when the action is taken, rather than
waiting until the action succeeds. The Jyhad version of Blood Bond was not a
directed action.
Blood Doll now allows the controller of the affected vampire to move
blood to and from the vampire. The Jyhad version implied that the controller of
Blood Doll controlled this movement.
Blood Rage is now a Thaumaturgy card. The Jyhad version was a Fortitude
card.
Bonding, Conditioning, and Threats no longer allow any further action
modifiers to increase the bleed. The Jyhad versions of these cards only stated
that these three cards could not be used with each other.
The player of Bribes now gains 1 pool by playing the card. The Jyhad
version required that player to vote in his or her own favor in order to gain 1
pool.
A vampire under the effect of Camarilla Exemplary can now be blocked by
allies. The Jyhad version did not allow non-vampires to block the vampire
affected by Camarilla Exemplary.
Inferior Cat Burglary is now usable only against the prey. The Jyhad
version stated that both inferior and superior Cat Burglary could be directed
against any player.
Chantry now allows the player to choose whether to remove a Tremere
from torpor. The Jyhad version required the player to return a Tremere from
torpor if possible.
Deal with the Devil is now no longer replaced before the player
discards his or her hand and draws a new one. The Jyhad version was replaced
before the player discarded his or her hand.
Disputed Territory is now a political action card. The Jyhad version
was mislabeled a normal action card.
Dr. Jest now allows a player to choose whether to force his or her prey
to discard a card. The Jyhad version required that the prey discard a card.
Elysium: The Arboretum no longer ends combats the controlling player is
not involved in, and can only end combat which involves a vampire controlled by
that player. The Jyhad version could end any combat.
The vampire created by The Embrace is now of the same clan as the
progenitor. Also, the new vampire now must be given a Discipline if possible,
and it can now take other actions than hunting on its first turn. The Jyhad
version of The Embrace did not give the progeny a clan. Also, the player could
choose not to give the created vampire a Discipline, and this vampire was
restricted to hunting during its first turn.
Fame is now a unique master card. The Jyhad version allowed any number
of Fame to be in play at the same time.
The V:TES versions of Gangrel Atavism, Malkavian Dementia, and Tragic
Love Affair have errata: These cards should not have clan symbols; they may be
used by a vampire of any clan.
Giant's Blood can now be played only once in each game. The Jyhad
version allowed Giant's Blood to be played more than once, but with no effect.
Glaser Rounds and Manstopper Rounds now only increase the damage that
the equipped minion does with a gun. Also, the V:TES versions of these cards
have errata: the bonus applies for the rest of that combat, not to all strikes.
The Jyhad versions of Glaser Rounds and Manstopper Rounds increased the damage
dealt by a gun for the rest of the combat; thus, this bonus applied when the
gun was stolen from the original minion.
The V:TES version of Hawg has errata: this card provides one press each
combat. The Jyhad version only provided one press each turn.
The V:TES version of Major Boon has errata: The second sentence should
read: "Modifiers to the bleed may be played after you play this card."
Malkavian Time Auction now prohibits the player from bidding on his or
her own auction. The Jyhad version allowed this.
Masquerade Endangered now prohibits the affected vampire from hunting
for the rest of the turn. The Jyhad version only prevented the vampire from
gaining blood from hunting that turn.
Nosferatu Putrescence now only gives the affected vampire -1 hand
damage the first time it strikes for hand damage in a combat. The Jyhad version
reduced the vampire's hand damage on every strike in that turn.
Owl Companion now requires the affected player to play with an open
hand during the combat. The Jyhad version allowed the affected player to keep
the hand hidden while allowing other players to examine it for the rest of the
combat.
Parity Shift no longer allows controller to give back to the player
affected by Parity Shift some of that player's pool. The Jyhad version allowed
this.
Patagia can now only be played once on any vampire. The Jyhad version
did not limit the number of times Patagia could be played on a single vampire.
A vampire under the effects of Pulled Fangs is now prohibited from
hunting. Also, Pulled Fangs now requires a vampire to take two directed actions
to burn it. The Jyhad version sent the vampire to torpor if it had to hunt.
Also, the Jyhad version did not specify that the required actions were directed
actions.
The Rack now functions only while the controller of The Rack is the
controller of the affected vampire. The Jyhad version continued to function
even if the controller of the affected vampire changed.
Ritual Challenge now always gives a vampire +1 hand damage. With the
Jyhad version, the hand damage bonus was not cumulative; thus, Ritual Challenge
did not aid a minion that already had 2 hand damage.
Sengir Dagger now turns all of a minion's hand damage into aggravated
damage. The Jyhad version turned all hand damage given by other cards into
aggravated damage, but did not turn more than 1 point of hand damage into
aggravated damage if that hand damage bonus was part of the minion's innate
ability.
Moving Society of Leopold from one vampire to another is now a directed
action. The Jyhad version did not specify that the required action was a
directed action.
Soul Gem of Etrius now explains that a vampire inheriting the Soul Gem
whose age equals or exceeds that of the affected vampire is placed in the
player's uncontrolled area and Soul Gem is burned. The Jyhad version did not
specify what occurred when the drawn vampire was of equal age to the affected
vampire.
Talbot's Chainsaw now only provides a press during the first round of
combat. The Jyhad version provided a press which could be used during any
round.
Tasha Morgan may now be used by all kindred. Jyhad contained two
different versions of Tasha Morgan; one of these did not specify that Tasha
Morgan was usable only by kindred.
Superior Telepathic Vote Counting can now be used even if the subject
vampire doesn't attempt to vote. The Jyhad version could only be used when the
vampire participated in the vote.
The vampire created by the Third Tradition: Progeny is now of the same
clan as the progenitor. Also, the new vampire now must be given a Discipline if
possible. The Jyhad version of did not give the progeny a clan; also, the
player could choose not to give the created vampire a Discipline.
Vast Wealth can now only be played on a minion the player controls. The
Jyhad version allowed the player to use Vast Wealth on any minion.
The V:TES version of Zip Gun has errata: Zip Gun only damages its
bearer during a combat if used during that combat.
Neil Bernstein
: cards which used to say "2 hand damage" have been changed to read "+1 hand
: damage," making all such hand damage cumulative. Now a Bastard Sword can
: help a
: vampire like Zack North, who already has increased hand damage; in Jyhad,
: equipping Zack with the Sword wouldn't have been useful, since it could not
: have increased his already-enhanced hand damage.
A Bastard Sword is a weapon. A weapon strike is not a hand strike. Why
should equipping Zack with a Sword increase his hand damage? Maybe you meant
cards like Torn Signpost? (i.e., useless on a vampire with 2 hand damage
and inferior potence).
: Bastard Sword now adds +1 damage to a minion's hand damage. With the
: Jyhad version, the hand-damage bonus was not cumulative; thus, Bastard Sword
: did not aid a minion that already had 2 hand damage.
It wasn't cumulative in Jyhad because it was a weapon, not a permanent Lucky
Blow! So is Bastard Sword still a weapon? How will it interact with cards
like Blood Rage/Fury?
: Sengir Dagger now turns all of a minion's hand damage into aggravated
: damage. The Jyhad version turned all hand damage given by other cards into
: aggravated damage, but did not turn more than 1 point of hand damage into
: aggravated damage if that hand damage bonus was part of the minion's innate
: ability.
As above: is Sengir Dagger a weapon or not?
- Neil
--
nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus...
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
Ewok
: Thomas R Wylie (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote:
::...vampire like Zack North, who already has increased hand damage; in Jyhad,
::equipping Zack with the Sword wouldn't have been useful, since it could not
::have increased his already-enhanced hand damage.
:should equipping Zack with a Sword increase his hand damage? Maybe you meant
:cards like Torn Signpost? (i.e., useless on a vampire with 2 hand damage
:and inferior potence).
I always assumed that a vampire with 2 hand damage was particularly buff. Then
it would make sense that a melee weapon like bastard sword would augment
damage done: since Zack is still hitting hard, but this time with a blade.
But obviously this does not apply to guns, and this is why Zack is no better
a marksman than any other kindred (I hope Zack didn't hear that :) ).
Ewok
--
//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\
/ Ewok Juan Burwell \
\ jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu jmbu...@amherst.edu /
\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\//
The Corrupter
> BTW, has anyone seen the VTES version of Torn Signpost? Does it still
> give 2/3 hand damage, or is it +1/+2? If it has the +1/+2 bonus instead
> of the base hand damage, then isn't it just Fists of Death, but uncommon
> instead of rare? If all the other hand damage bonuses have become +, then
> the original wording of TS works just fine, as if Sebastion Marley (+1
> hand damage ) tears off a signpost, he then does 3 damage at basic
> potence, or 4 at superior.
Not quite the same. Fists of Death is a strike. Torn Signpost changes
base damage for the remainder of the combat. Thus Torn Signpost can be
combined with Fists of Death for real fun.
"I can send and receive e-mail even over the internet"-aol commercial
@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$
# Adrian Sullivan "<insert favorite quote here>" #
$ sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu -<insert name of those quoted here> @
@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$
GAT/CS/O/WS d-(---) h++ s: a--- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ P+ L E- W+>++ N++(+)
o?> K+>++++ w--->? O? M++ V-->? PS+(-+) PE&++&- Y+>++ PGP(--) t 5->?
X++&-- R+++&* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ DI D(+)&--- G+>+++ e+*>++++ h(+) r(+)
y*+? /* Version 3.1 */ @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$
@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ Spoutingly yours 8^)
Algustas
FOD is one of my favorite cards, since I am a masochist and play
Nosferatu a lot, thought I would clear something up.
On Sun, 26 Nov 1995, The Corrupter wrote:
> In article <49b4gs$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) wrote:
>
> > BTW, has anyone seen the VTES version of Torn Signpost? Does it still
> > give 2/3 hand damage, or is it +1/+2? If it has the +1/+2 bonus instead
> > of the base hand damage, then isn't it just Fists of Death, but uncommon
> > instead of rare? If all the other hand damage bonuses have become +, then
> > the original wording of TS works just fine, as if Sebastion Marley (+1
> > hand damage ) tears off a signpost, he then does 3 damage at basic
> > potence, or 4 at superior.
>
> Not quite the same. Fists of Death is a strike. Torn Signpost changes
> base damage for the remainder of the combat. Thus Torn Signpost can be
> combined with Fists of Death for real fun.
>
Actually, FOD is not a strike. You must play it before range is
determined, just like Torn Signpost. You may still use it with torn
signpost, and you can use more than one FOD. Using more than one torn
signpost would be redundant, since it gives you 2 or 3 hand damage, where
as FOD adds to your hand damage.
Algustas
*****Murder most foul, as in the best it is; But this most foul, strange,
and unnatural.*****William Shakespeare, Hamlet
ScottDiBer
strike), but the VtES Torn Signpost is worded roughly the same as the
Jyhad version, that is to say, 2 or 3 hand damage, not +1 or +2.
Functionally the same in Luccia's hands.
-scott
(scott...@aol.com)
"Fraudulent Misrepresentation!" - Zippy
Thomas R Wylie
There isn't a single backstory gimmick that covers all vampires with
increased damage. Vampires with potence would typically have increased
strength, that would translate into either hand strikes or hitting somebody
with something. Vampires with celerity would be hitting people pretty fast...
not fast enough to Blur, but fast enough for "increased damage". And so on.
Gimmicks that wouldn't also enhance melee weapons would be relatively rare.
Alan Kwan
>I always assumed that a vampire with 2 hand damage was particularly buff. Then
>it would make sense that a melee weapon like bastard sword would augment
>damage done: since Zack is still hitting hard, but this time with a blade.
No. A vampire is particularly buff when it has Potence. A vampire with
Potence can hit hard with a Bastard Sword.
2 hand damage probably refers to some bare hands fighting skills.
See Didi Meyers, for example.
My 2 cents.
--
"Live Life with Heart."
Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu
Alan Kwan
>
>There isn't a single backstory gimmick that covers all vampires with
>increased damage. Vampires with potence would typically have increased
>strength, that would translate into either hand strikes or hitting somebody
>with something. Vampires with celerity would be hitting people pretty fast...
>not fast enough to Blur, but fast enough for "increased damage". And so on.
>Gimmicks that wouldn't also enhance melee weapons would be relatively rare.
If that is the case, I object on the errata on Bastard Sword.
It should be the vampires that get the errata: +1 hand damage,
instead of 2 hand damage.
How do you mount a Bastard Sword on a Torn Signpost?
Greg Zuvich
wrote:
> Bastard Sword and Sengir Dagger are each weapons. A minion can only strike
> with one weapon at a time, so a minion equipped with both could either
> strike for hand + 1, or strike for hand + aggravated, but not both.
so did we ever answer whether or not Hector Sosa's card was printed wrong in
V:TES? just wondering...
-greg zuvich
--
邢 唷��
L. Scott Johnson
>by Paul Peterson and Tom Wylie
> Some cards were removed because they were inferior versions of other
>cards. The Chainsaw was just a Sawed-Off Shotgun that didn't do ranged damage,
>so it was removed to make room for a new card. Disguised Weapon and Movement of
>the Slow Body also were removed because they were inferior to other cards.
*Concealed* weapon was the inferior one. I hope you didn't remove it
simply because it was misprinted with an obfuscate symbol on it (and I
certainly hope your didn't unbalance the mix of discipline cards by removing
Disguised Weapon).
And what other card untapped a minion better than Slow Body?
>Functionally Different Cards in Vampire: The Eternal Struggle
> Blood Bond is now a directed action. The V:TES version also has errata:
>The player chooses the affected vampire when the action is taken, rather than
>waiting until the action succeeds. The Jyhad version of Blood Bond was not a
>directed action.
By both errata and the definition of directed, it was, in fact, a directed
action.
> Inferior Cat Burglary is now usable only against the prey. The Jyhad
>version stated that both inferior and superior Cat Burglary could be directed
>against any player.
Not with longstanding errata overturning the more-long-standing mis-rule
on the (D) symbol. As printed, under the original rules, the inferior
was always Prey-only.
> A vampire under the effects of Pulled Fangs is now prohibited from
>hunting. Also, Pulled Fangs now requires a vampire to take two directed actions
>to burn it. The Jyhad version sent the vampire to torpor if it had to hunt.
>Also, the Jyhad version did not specify that the required actions were directed
>actions.
Directed actions? Directed at whom? Actions directed at one's own vampires
are, by definition, undirected.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
Thomas R Wylie
The general approach was to change most cards that reset hand damage such
that they flatly increased it instead. Torn Signpost was not changed in
this way since that would make it strictly better than Fists of Death.
Yes, this leads to a slightly bizarre interaction between Torn Signpost
and certain melee weapons, but setting things such that the interaction
didn't happen wouldn't be worth outdating Fists of Death, and it wouldn't
be worth making melee weapons an exception just because of Torn Signpost.
Thomas R Wylie
Greg Zuvich <gzu...@symantec.com> wrote:
>so did we ever answer whether or not Hector Sosa's card was printed wrong in
>V:TES? just wondering...
Yes, it's printed incorrectly. He should still have superior Potence.
rit...@cruzio.com
> In article <499a39$5...@amhux3.amherst.edu> jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu (Ewok) writes:
>
> >I always assumed that a vampire with 2 hand damage was particularly buff. Then
> >it would make sense that a melee weapon like bastard sword would augment
> >damage done: since Zack is still hitting hard, but this time with a blade.
>
> No. A vampire is particularly buff when it has Potence. A vampire with
> Potence can hit hard with a Bastard Sword.
>
> 2 hand damage probably refers to some bare hands fighting skills.
> See Didi Meyers, for example.
>
Didi Meyers doesn't have 2 Hand Damage. :) Or did you mean Dancing
Dana? If so, she has Celerity, and is probably especially `quick'.
> My 2 cents.
>
> --
> "Live Life with Heart."
>
> Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu
Ritaxis
--
Algustas
On Sun, 3 Dec 1995 rit...@cruzio.com wrote:
> Didi Meyers doesn't have 2 Hand Damage. :) Or did you mean Dancing
> Dana? If so, she has Celerity, and is probably especially `quick'.
>
>
Well, it could be that at the moment of combat you discover
dancing Danna is really a man, sort of a suprise punch thing;)
Algustas
*****Man, created in God's image and likeness, is not just flesh and
blood. The sexual instinct is not all that he has. Man is also, and
pre-eminently, intelligent and free; and thanks to theese powers he is,
and must remain, superior to the rest of creation; they give him mastery
over his physical, psychological and affective appetites.***** Pope Paul VI
Scott A DiBerardino
<cfr...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:
: Actually, FOD is not a strike. You must play it before range is
: signpost, and you can use more than one FOD. Using more than one torn
: Algustas
: *****Murder most foul, as in the best it is; But this most foul, strange,
: and unnatural.*****William Shakespeare, Hamlet
Acutally, I always read Torn Signpost as allowing you a strike for 2 hand
damage, so that it could not be combined with say a bastard sword... i.e.
the Torn Signpost is your strike.
-scott
"Lord God, war is a beautiful thing, but I want to fight for my own pleasure and not because my adversary eats meat on Friday."
-- Monsieur de Saint-Savin, _The_Island_of_the_Day_Before_