Keystone Kine + Red List Ally (LSJ)
Malone
which disciplines are being used. Does it also include, when using
obf, specifying which ally will be burned?
2. My Rafaele Giovanni bleeds with Keystone Kine at cel+nec+obf. My
prey controls a Red Listed Francois 'Warden' Lehr, whom I intend to
burn. Prey does not block or change the target of the bleed, which is
for 3. The Warden burns. Is he burned "as a D action", for the
purpose of Trophy retrieval?
3. Now, same scenario except that my prey Deflects the bleed to my
grand-prey. Is the action now undirected, as it targets both my prey
and grand-prey?
4. If the answers to (2) and (3) were "yes" and "no", respectively,
suppose that in the second scenario my grand-prey takes the 3 bleed.
Will the burning of the Warden trigger Trophy retrieval?
LSJ
> 1. Obviously, declaring the Keystone Kine action includes specifying
> which disciplines are being used. Does it also include, when using
> obf, specifying which ally will be burned?
No. That waits until the action is successful.
> 2. My Rafaele Giovanni bleeds with Keystone Kine at cel+nec+obf. My
> prey controls a Red Listed Francois 'Warden' Lehr, whom I intend to
> burn. Prey does not block or change the target of the bleed, which is
> for 3. The Warden burns. Is he burned "as a D action", for the
> purpose of Trophy retrieval?
Yes.
> 3. Now, same scenario except that my prey Deflects the bleed to my
> grand-prey. Is the action now undirected, as it targets both my prey
> and grand-prey?
No. It is still (D).
> 4. If the answers to (2) and (3) were "yes" and "no", respectively,
> suppose that in the second scenario my grand-prey takes the 3 bleed.
> Will the burning of the Warden trigger Trophy retrieval?
Yes.
Malone
5. Does the action in the first scenario (prey is bled) cost an
additional blood per the Warden's text ("D actions that target
Francois cost an additional blood or life")?
6. If yes to (5), then how about in the second scenario (grand-prey
takes bleed)?
LSJ
No. The action succeeds first. And cost is paid before it succeeds. This action
is a bleed, and it doesn't target Warden.
Sten During
> No. The action succeeds first. And cost is paid before it succeeds. This
> action is a bleed, and it doesn't target Warden.
>
This goes counter to a previous thread where you stated that a card
costing four pool and gives the player five pool can be played by a
player at four pool without said player being ousted. If cost is
indeed paid before success then the player MUST be down to zero pool,
and therefore the card never resolves.
Sten
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
JH
The most important reason why it doesn't target Warden is that you
don't decide which ally to burn until the bleed resolves. Only target
of a bleed is the Methuselah being bled.
LSJ
No. You pay the cost and resolve the effect.
Sten During
> Sten During wrote:
>>> No. The action succeeds first. And cost is paid before it succeeds. This
>> player at four pool without said player being ousted. If cost is
>> indeed paid before success then the player MUST be down to zero pool,
>> and therefore the card never resolves.
>
> No. You pay the cost and resolve the effect.
Ok, so cost is paid simultaneously with resolution? There is no
distinct order 1) pay cost, 2) resolve effect?
LSJ
An effect whose cost is paid occurs.
Salem
I suspect they probably happen in order*, but are so tightly bundled
that you can't really squeeze anything in between, not even being ousted.
(*based on the fact that if, when it comes time to pay a cost, you for
some reason can no longer pay, you still pay as much as you can, but the
effect doesn't occur.)
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
Malone
I transfer my last pool to an Anarch Convert, who I choose to use to
convert an untitled vampire and gain one pool. Does this all take
place without me being ousted in the middle?
The Lasombra
>I transfer my last pool to an Anarch Convert, who I choose to use to
>convert an untitled vampire and gain one pool. Does this all take
>place without me being ousted in the middle?
You are ousted in the middle.
Transfers happen "during" the transfer phase.
Bringing a minion into play happens at the "end" of the transfer
phase.
You never get to the "end" of the phase, to trigger the vampire's card
text as you are ousted as soon as you transfer the pool to the card.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
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