[LSJ] Fall of the camarilla- what happens when it is removed?
gabusanvtes
through ousting of his controller or Black Hand Ritual), all camarilla
vampire stop being independent and they become camarilla again.
a) Do the camarilla vampires recover their titles too?
b) Assuming yes to previous question, if they were contesting titles
when Fall of camarilla was played, I guess these titles get contested
again?
c) If a camarilla vampire became liason (See "Rise of Nepthtali")
under "fall of the camarilla", when it is removed and he becomes
camarilla again, I guess he loses the liason title? Then, if he was
contesting the liason with another vampire, he yields it inmediately
and the other vampire gets the title inmedately, or does he have to
wait for his turn to get the title?
Thanks a lot.
Colin McGuigan
> If a "Fall of the camarilla" event is removed from play (either
> through ousting of his controller or Black Hand Ritual), all camarilla
> vampire stop being independent and they become camarilla again.
>
> a) Do the camarilla vampires recover their titles too?
Yes. Same as if, eg, Arika goes Into the Fire (losing her Inner Circle
title), and then goes Out of the Frying Pan.
The only instances where they wouldn't get their title is if they had
gotten a new one in the meantime (Rise of the Neptahli), or if someone
had contested theirs (eg, Gilbert Duane goes Into the Fire, and while
Sabbat, someone calls Praxis Seizure: Miami. Gilbert immediately
yields.) (this would be impossible in the Fall of the Camarilla
scenario...just stating).
> b) Assuming yes to previous question, if they were contesting titles
> when Fall of camarilla was played, I guess these titles get contested
> again?
Yes.
> c) If a camarilla vampire became liason (See "Rise of Nepthtali")
> under "fall of the camarilla", when it is removed and he becomes
> camarilla again, I guess he loses the liason title?
Yes. Liaison is an Independent title, by card text.
> Then, if he was
> contesting the liason with another vampire, he yields it inmediately
> and the other vampire gets the title inmedately, or does he have to
> wait for his turn to get the title?
Yes, if he's ineligible by sect, he immediately yields.
--Colin McGuigan
John P.
"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:T7WdnVy9yvb...@speakeasy.net...
> The only instances where they wouldn't get their title is if they had
> gotten a new one in the meantime (Rise of the Neptahli), or if someone
> had contested theirs (eg, Gilbert Duane goes Into the Fire, and while
> Sabbat, someone calls Praxis Seizure: Miami. Gilbert immediately
> yields.) (this would be impossible in the Fall of the Camarilla
> scenario...just stating).
As to contesting their title...
It is possible with Fall of the Camarilla, if Gilbert Duane
went "into the fire" then someone calls *Crusade*: Miami. As the
archbishopry contests with princedoms of the same city Gilbert
would then yield his title automatically. (while calling the Praxis Miami
is impossible under the Fall of the Camarilla, contesting the title is
not, since it can be contested by sabbat and independant titles.)
Not arguing your point, just pointing out the possibility.
-JTP
-John
gabusanvtes
> gotten a new one in the meantime (Rise of the Neptahli)
But a vampire would lose the rise of the Nephtali's Liason title as
soon as he became camarilla again, so he would get his older title
back?
> if Gilbert Duane
> went "into the fire" then someone calls *Crusade*: Miami. As the
> archbishopry contests with princedoms of the same city Gilbert
> would then yield his title automatically.
I don't understand this one. When fall of camarilla is removed,
Gilbert would become camarilla again and get his title back. Why can't
he contest it as usual with an archbishopry of the same city?
LSJ
> gabusanvtes wrote:
>> If a "Fall of the camarilla" event is removed from play (either
>> through ousting of his controller or Black Hand Ritual), all camarilla
>> vampire stop being independent and they become camarilla again.
>>
>> a) Do the camarilla vampires recover their titles too?
>
> Yes. Same as if, eg, Arika goes Into the Fire (losing her Inner Circle
> title), and then goes Out of the Frying Pan.
Correct.
> The only instances where they wouldn't get their title is if they had
> gotten a new one in the meantime (Rise of the Neptahli), or if someone
> had contested theirs (eg, Gilbert Duane goes Into the Fire, and while
> Sabbat, someone calls Praxis Seizure: Miami. Gilbert immediately
> yields.) (this would be impossible in the Fall of the Camarilla
> scenario...just stating).
Correct.
>> b) Assuming yes to previous question, if they were contesting titles
>> when Fall of camarilla was played, I guess these titles get contested
>> again?
>
> Yes.
Both would immediately yield, actually, when FotC entered play.
>> c) If a camarilla vampire became liason (See "Rise of Nepthtali")
>> under "fall of the camarilla", when it is removed and he becomes
>> camarilla again, I guess he loses the liason title?
>
> Yes. Liaison is an Independent title, by card text.
Correct. He would lose it until he becomes Independent again.
>> Then, if he was
>> contesting the liason with another vampire, he yields it inmediately
>> and the other vampire gets the title inmedately, or does he have to
>> wait for his turn to get the title?
>
> Yes, if he's ineligible by sect, he immediately yields.
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
salem
<magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled:
>> Then, if he was
>> contesting the liason with another vampire, he yields it inmediately
>> and the other vampire gets the title inmedately, or does he have to
>> wait for his turn to get the title?
>
>Yes, if he's ineligible by sect, he immediately yields.
but the other vampire has to wait until it's next untap phase before
it gets the title.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
LSJ
>>The only instances where they wouldn't get their title is if they had
>>gotten a new one in the meantime (Rise of the Neptahli)
>
>
> But a vampire would lose the rise of the Nephtali's Liason title as
> soon as he became camarilla again, so he would get his older title
> back?
No. There's no effect lurking around that is trying to give him
his old title back. A title was irrevocable lost when replaced
by another title (and when yielded, for that matter - you don't
get the yielded title back when the vampire to whom you ceded
the title leaves play, for instance).
>>if Gilbert Duane
>>went "into the fire" then someone calls *Crusade*: Miami. As the
>>archbishopry contests with princedoms of the same city Gilbert
>>would then yield his title automatically.
>
> I don't understand this one. When fall of camarilla is removed,
> Gilbert would become camarilla again and get his title back. Why can't
> he contest it as usual with an archbishopry of the same city?
Because he's already yielded it. You can't yield and then later
choose (without an external effect) to pick up the fight again.
There's no effect lurking around trying to give him his title
back when he becomes Camarilla again.
LSJ
> <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled:
>>>Then, if he was
>>>contesting the liason with another vampire, he yields it inmediately
>>>and the other vampire gets the title inmedately, or does he have to
>>>wait for his turn to get the title?
>>
>>Yes, if he's ineligible by sect, he immediately yields.
>
> but the other vampire has to wait until it's next untap phase before
> it gets the title.
Correct.
Eric Simon
> > The only instances where they wouldn't get their title is if they had
> > gotten a new one in the meantime (Rise of the Neptahli)
>
> But a vampire would lose the rise of the Nephtali's Liason title as
> soon as he became camarilla again, so he would get his older title
> back?
No. Anytime you gain a new title, you have forfeited any previous
titles. If you merge Marcus Vitel and call a Crusade, he does not
revert to Prince if you use Out of the Frying Pan on him. Instead, he
retains the Crusade on him, and will revert to Archbishop if you use
Into the Fire (and if no one has contested the Crusade city in the
meantime).
> > if Gilbert Duane
> > went "into the fire" then someone calls *Crusade*: Miami. As the
> > archbishopry contests with princedoms of the same city Gilbert
> > would then yield his title automatically.
>
> I don't understand this one. When fall of camarilla is removed,
> Gilbert would become camarilla again and get his title back. Why can't
> he contest it as usual with an archbishopry of the same city?
Nope. It is as stated above. Gilbert is considered to have yielded
the title while Sabbat (essentially "in absentia") and so cannot
contest it when he returns to the Cam.
For all of the official rules text on this, see section 10 of the
rulebook - "Vampire Sects."
Eric Simon
Prince of Chicago
Anarch Newsletter Writer
Colin McGuigan
> As to contesting their title...
> It is possible with Fall of the Camarilla, if Gilbert Duane
> went "into the fire" then someone calls *Crusade*: Miami.
True. Hadn't considered that. =P
--Colin McGuigan