Thought's Betrayed errata?

[John B]

Just curious to see if there have been any alterations to the original
capabilities of thoughts betrayed... I know it is considered overly powerful
by some. what has been attempted to rectify this?

JB

Mtl, Que.

[James Coupe]

In article <sf6okp...@corp.supernews.com>, John B
<John_B...@Hotmail.com> writes

> Just curious to see if there have been any alterations to the original
>capabilities of thoughts betrayed... I know it is considered overly powerful
>by some. what has been attempted to rectify this?

It only prevents the use of strike cards, at superior. At inferior,
nothing changes.

This still has the effect of nullifying things like Strike: Combat Ends,
but allows people to fight back, quite nicely.

--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)

Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.zephyr.org.uk

[LSJ]

John B wrote:
>
> Just curious to see if there have been any alterations to the original
> capabilities of thoughts betrayed... I know it is considered overly powerful
> by some. what has been attempted to rectify this?

Thoughts Betrayed [DS] - Combat (dom) (2)

* Change "cannot use any cards" to "cannot play any strike cards" in the
superior. [RTR 19980707]
* Thoughts Betrayed is played "as combat is entered". (It is a combat
card, so cannot be played "before combat".) [RTR 19960124]

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep

[John B]

I see that the cost has not been reduced, any reason for this? The card is
hardly as useful.

JB

LSJ wrote in message <38F36AB1...@white-wolf.com>...

[LSJ]

John B wrote:
>Thoughts Betrayed [DS] - Combat (dom) (2)
>
> * Change "cannot use any cards" to "cannot play any strike cards" in the
> superior. [RTR 19980707]
>

> I see that the cost has not been reduced, any reason for this? The card is
> hardly as useful.

Since it was viewed as overpowerful before, giving it a reduction in
cost corresponding to its reduction in power would not be productive.

(That is, if it were left "as useful" as its overpowered incarnation,
it would be overpowered.)

[James Coupe]

In article <sf91no...@corp.supernews.com>, John B
<John_B...@Hotmail.com> writes

>I see that the cost has not been reduced, any reason for this? The card is
>hardly as useful.

The card was *overly* useful to start with, broken in many people's
opinion.

[Simon Klibisch]

> I see that the cost has not been reduced, any reason for this? The card is
> hardly as useful.

It still is useful. Have you ever played against a Tremere Theft of Vitae
Deck, using Thoughts betrayed? Have fun ;-)
Regards,
Simon

[John B]

LSJ wrote in message <38F48BEB...@white-wolf.com>...

>John B wrote:
>>Thoughts Betrayed [DS] - Combat (dom) (2)
>>
>> * Change "cannot use any cards" to "cannot play any strike cards" in
the
>> superior. [RTR 19980707]
>>

>> I see that the cost has not been reduced, any reason for this? The card
is
>> hardly as useful.
>

>Since it was viewed as overpowerful before, giving it a reduction in
>cost corresponding to its reduction in power would not be productive.
>
>(That is, if it were left "as useful" as its overpowered incarnation,
>it would be overpowered.)

Got it, makes sense, thanks...

Are there any other errata that impact my Tremere, that I should know about?
Does Charnas give the vampire blood when they untap? maybe alter theft of
vitae so that stolen blood doesn't go on the vampire who uses theft?

JB

[James Coupe]

In article <sfbgrv...@corp.supernews.com>, John B
<John_B...@Hotmail.com> writes

>Are there any other errata that impact my Tremere, that I should know about?

Nothing major, off the top of my head. Of course, if there are any
specific cards you use, it may be worth just searching the three files
(Errata, Rulings, Clarifications) in order to double check.

[LSJ]

John B wrote:
> Are there any other errata that impact my Tremere, that I should know about?

Bleed bounce cards (Deflection, Redirection, Telepathic Misdirection) cannot
be used to redirect the bleed to yourself.

Academic Hunting Ground - Unique Location (Tre) (2)
* Gives blood to vampires during the untap phase, not the master phase.
(The V:TES version is misprinted). [RTR 19960530]

Blood Rage - Combat (tha)
* Requires thaumaturgy, not fortitude. [Card]

Blood to Water [AH] - Combat (tha) (2)
* The "otherwise" refers to the opposing minion *being* an Ally. Blood to
Water won't burn vampires. [TOM 19960607]
* Blood to Water can't be used at long range. [RTR 19960708]
* Blood to Water can't be played until range is determined.
[RTR 19961113]

Blythe Candelaria [DS] - Vampire (Tre) (3)
* Blythe Candelaria is mis-printed. She should have inferior, not
superior, Auspex. [TOM 19951208]

Chantry - Master: Unique Location (Tre)
* Moves the Tremere from torpor to his or her controller's ready region.
[RTR 19960124]
* Using the Chantry is optional. [RTR 19941222]

Corpse Minion [DS] - Retainer (Tre) (1)
* Corpse Minion may be used any number of times during a single action.
[TOM 19960109]

Javier Montoya [DS] - Vampire (Tre) (9)
* Card text should say "blood", not "pool". [RTR 19960112]

Machine Blitz [SAB] - Combat (tha)
* Machine Blitz inflicts an amount of ranged damage equal to (or 1
greater than) the amount the chosen weapon would inflict if it were
chosen as a strike. This amount is set when Machine Blitz is announced.
[LSJ 19970224]

Mind Rape [SAB] - Action (dom) (2)
* New card text for superior: "(D) put this card on a younger vampire and
tap that vampire. The vampire with this card does not untap as normal
during his controller's untap phase. During the acting vampire's
controller's next minion phase, she must burn this card to untap the
vampire and take control of the vampire until the end of her turn."
[RTR 19980707]

The Sabbat version of Obedience has been errata'ed to read as the
V:TES version does.

Pulse of the Canaille - Action (aus) (3)
* The inferior is grammatically incorrect, mixing singular and plural for
the target. The correct reading is, as in the Jyhad version, "... may
look at all Methuselahs' hands." [LSJ 19980211]

Rutor's Hand [DS] - Action (tha) (1)
* A vampire cannot have more than one Rutor's Hand. [RTR 19980623]
* To prevent the damage from Rutor's Hand (superior version), you must
burn three blood (in addition to the cost of the action). This is
errata. (No other methods of preventing the damage can be used.)
[RTR 19980623]

Scrying of Secrets [SAB] - Action Modifier (aus) (1)
* Superior Scrying Secrets: you choose which of the bleed action cards is
discarded. [LSJ 19970225]

Slaughtering the Herd requires only Dominate - no potence is required.

(Clarification): Sleeping Mind doesn't affect vampires' ability to play
Wake cards, nor their ability to block if they do.

Thanks for the Donation [SAB] - Action (dom)
* Thanks for the Donation stays in play even though it is a minion card
and the minion it is on is contested. Treat it as if it says: "Put this
card into play and choose a card your are contesting with another
Methuselah..." [LSJ 19970224]

Tremere Convocation [DS] - Master (Tre) (1)
* Second sentence of Tremere Convocation should read: "Vampires with
basic Thaumaturgy may play combat cards requiring Thaumaturgy as if
they had superior Thaumaturgy." [RTR 19970630]

Wasserschloss Anif, Austria [DS] - Master: Unique Location (Tre) (2)
* Wasserschloss Anif can only receive blood from one Tremere on any given
turn. [RTR 19960221]

[Jasper Phillips]

In article <38F5CB0E...@white-wolf.com>,

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>John B wrote:
>> Are there any other errata that impact my Tremere, that I should know about?

[Snipped LSJ listing the cards asked for, despite the tone of the request]

You have the patience of a saint (and an exquisite deadpan!)
Now if only I could learn that trick...

-Jasper

[John B]

Thanks LSJ, this is all I need...

JB

LSJ wrote in message <38F5CB0E...@white-wolf.com>...

>John B wrote:
>> Are there any other errata that impact my Tremere, that I should know
about?
>