<For LSJ or others> Mirror Walk/Raptor ruling needed.
Gomer
at basic for the +1 stealth. My predator generates enough intercept
to overcome my stealth and successfully blocks with a minion that has
a Raptor played at Superior. Combat ensues. Do I have do discard any
cards from hand?
Raptor says: As above, and when the minion with this retainer is in
combat, the opposing minion's controller gets -1 hand size.
Mirror Walk says:Do not replace until your discard phase, leaving me
with only 6 cards in hand.
Does Mirror Walk actually reduce my hand size temporarily to 6,
thereby allowing the Raptor to reduce it to 5? Or is my hand size
prior to the Raptor;'s effect still 7, and subsequently 6, leaving me
with just enough cards in hand to meet my new hand size of 6 and
therefore allowing me to carry on with no discard?
I had the opinion that Mirror Walk didn't reduce my hand size, it
merely causes a delay in replacement and that the Raptor had no effect
on my hand size during the ensuing combat as a result. I just need a
ruling that I can refer to in the future should this situation arise
in the future.
Brian Gomez
Jozxyqk
> One of my minions with tha attempts an action and I play Mirror Walk
> at basic for the +1 stealth. My predator generates enough intercept
> to overcome my stealth and successfully blocks with a minion that has
> a Raptor played at Superior. Combat ensues. Do I have do discard any
> cards from hand?
Yes.
Raptor further reduces your hand size by 1.
Fun Fact:
If Henri Lavenant enters combat with a vampire with a single raptor, no
cards are discarded or drawn, since this is a specific case of "+1 hand
size" and "-1 hand size" adding together to "+0 hand size" before the
hand is affected. :)
Gomer
cards they have in hand? It doesn't work like a vamp's capacity I
take it? A methuselah cannot have a hand size of 7, yet only hold 6
cards due to card text? WWEF for example temporarily reduces a
handsize to 6?
Brian
Clément
This is the logic behind it, yes. If an effect dictates you should
hold less cards in your hand (like in no-replace clauses), that effect
reduces your current hand size.
Conversely, an Elder Library raises your current hand size by 1.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Jozxyqk
"Reduce your hand size by 1" means "Reduce the number of cards that you
can hold by 1". If you've already played a card that does not replace,
it has reduced the number of cards you can hold until that DNR-clause
lapses (or forever, in some cases). Raptor does it again.
If you've played Dragonbound (Do Not Replace "ever"), and you're up
against Raptors or another hand-size-reduction effect, you must further
discard cards.
Conversely, if Aristotle de Laurent comes into play, and you've played
Dragonbound, you can have 7 cards in your hand.
You can think of it in either of these ways; both have identical end
results:
1) "Do Not Replace" clause actually reduces your "Hand Size" during that
window.
or
2) "Do Not Replace" clause treats your hand as if it has a "dead slot"
(like a blank card, or an already-played Giant's Blood) during that window.
Bram Vink
Option 2 is not entirely clear, as this is not a "dead slot" like an
already played giant's blood, that you could discard. The crux of the
matter here is that it counts against your handsize, instead of being
a 'empty slot' that can count against/"fill" handsizereductionary
effects ;)
The first option is entirely correct, of course. ;)
Cheers,
B
Gomer
We have a BUNCH of VTES rookies in my area (Omaha, NE USA) and it's
stuff like this that causes problems. The noobs (no disrespect
intended) only have other CCG's and the EXACT wording in the rules,
errata and cards to base their opinions off of. Don't know if you
could see as how an argument could be made for the reverse ruling to
be valid. I had my opinion, but did not render a judgement during the
game. I played on as if my hand size was 5 and decided to post here
to find out more. I expect as the VTES players grow in experience,
they will figure things out but right now there's a bunch of players
that would NOT have handled things so rationally. This Usenet group
has become a godsend...
Brian Gomez
Darby Keeney
news:OpKdnQzv89UbGHzY...@comcast.com...
> Fun Fact:
> If Henri Lavenant enters combat with a vampire with a single raptor, no
> cards are discarded or drawn, since this is a specific case of "+1 hand
> size" and "-1 hand size" adding together to "+0 hand size" before the
> hand is affected. :)
I don't believe that's the case. Each effect must resolve. You don't just
"cancel them out" So, I believe it depends on who has the acting minion.
That effect is applied first, then the other. The end result is a hand size
of 7, but a card was (must be) cycled. The only question, depending on
acting priority (impulse holder), is if a card is drawn first.
Regards.
Darby
LSJ
> Thanks guys!
>
> We have a BUNCH of VTES rookies in my area (Omaha, NE USA) and it's
> stuff like this that causes problems. The noobs (no disrespect
> intended) only have other CCG's and the EXACT wording in the rules,
> errata and cards to base their opinions off of.
In this case, you'd still be OK. The rules of section 1.6.1 include item #2
"Drawing Cards, which says "The number of cards in your hand should always match
your hand size (less any cards you are not replacing until later)."
LSJ
There's no "resolution" to order. They both have ongoing effects.
Henri: "while in combat".
Raptor: "when in combat".
So: are you in combat?
Yes: then you have 7 (base) +1 (Hanri) -1 (Raptor) = 7 hand size.
No: Then you have 7 (base) = 7 hand size.