Rutor's Hand migration
John Flournoy
Rutor's Hand has had its text migrate from:
[tha] Put this card on the acting vampire. The vampire takes 1
aggravated damage (damage not preventable). Beginning with your next
turn, the vampire gets one additional untap during each of your minion
phases for the remainder of the game. A vampire can have only 1
Rutor's Hand.
to:
[tha] Put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire takes 1
unpreventable aggravated damage. Beginning with your next turn, this
vampire may untap once during each of your minion phases. A vampire may
have only one Rutor's Hand.
The important difference? It's now a 'may untap' and no longer a
mandatory one.
Which isn't a huge issue, admittedly, but it did come up in a local
game yesterday (and mattered, as the Rutor'ed vampire was empty and
previously would have been forced to untap and hunt, a
not-necessarily-good prospect with both predator and prey playing
intercept decks).
-John Flournoy
Slytherin
Hi,
I'm not sure how you read that this untap was previously mandatory, as
it doesn't say that this vampire must untap once during your minion
phase.
By the same potential logic, the second wording could be read to mean
that the vampire can only untap once during a minion phase (therefore
meaning that other untaps would be unusable), or it doesn't actually
grant an untap but restricts the ability to untap to only once per
minion phase,
We had always played it, and other groups that I have played with have
done the same, as the vampire ganis an (optional) additional untap once
per minion phase. Otherwise I think the expected utility of this card
is reduced as it meant that you had to untap as soon as the action was
taken (mandatory "action") and then if empty (as the case you cited)
must hunt immediately.
Anyway, probably just semantics of the way it is read. Perhaps a
question LSJ could answer - was it mandatory before? Is it untap
limiting now? (I am expecting a No to both answers)
Cheers
Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
Clément
> I'm not sure how you read that this untap was previously mandatory, as
> it doesn't say that this vampire must untap once during your minion
> phase.
It was mandatory. "Beginning with your next turn, the vampire gets one
additional untap during each of your minion phases for the remainder of
the game" provided an unconditional and mandatory untap. The key here,
I think is the absence of wording such as "may untap" or "gets one
optional additional untap", for example.
> By the same potential logic, the second wording could be read to mean
> that the vampire can only untap once during a minion phase (therefore
> meaning that other untaps would be unusable), or it doesn't actually
> grant an untap but restricts the ability to untap to only once per
> minion phase,
I wouldn't think so, because Rutor's Hand now gives you one (and only
one) optional untap during your minion phase, but doesn't seem to
preclude other effects from doing the same.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Brazil VTES NC
James Coupe
Slytherin <an...@operamail.com> writes:
>I'm not sure how you read that this untap was previously mandatory, as
>it doesn't say that this vampire must untap once during your minion
>phase.
It was read like that because it was mandatory.
Let us go to http://groups.google.com/ and use the obscure
incantation[0]:
author:LSJ mandatory "rutor's hand"
And lo:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/5ecc44
d5d84c2bda>
****
Rutor's Hand's untap is not conditional on some other event. It can
be "ordered" in the minion phase whenever you like (but must be used
before you leave the minion phase).
****
In short: "Rutor's Hand's untap.... must be used before you leave the
minion phase."
[0] If you don't like this one, try:
author:LSJ "must untap" rutor's
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/d608c9
3fd2ba365a>
****
> Because : a vampire whick have a Rutor's Hand bleed and is blocked.
> After the combat he have no more blood.
> Can he say : i choose to not untap ( for exmple because an other
> player wait him during the hunt ).
> Can he do this ?
He doesn't have to untap immediately.
But he does have to untap before the end of the minion phase.
****
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
gpett...@gmail.com
> We had always played it, and other groups that I have played with have
> done the same, as the vampire ganis an (optional) additional untap once
> per minion phase. Otherwise I think the expected utility of this card
> is reduced as it meant that you had to untap as soon as the action was
> taken (mandatory "action") and then if empty (as the case you cited)
> must hunt immediately.
>
Note how your playgroup has been *adding* the word "optional". How
'bout this, though:
Foo gets an additional untap.
Foo gets +1 strength.
What happens to Foo during close-range combat?
What happens to Foo during the minion phase?
--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
Slytherin
First Christmas fool award goes to me!
At least we'll be playing it correctly from now on.
Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge (probably should abdicate after that
one!)
CthuluKitty
> game yesterday (and mattered, as the Rutor'ed vampire was empty and
> previously would have been forced to untap and hunt, a
> not-necessarily-good prospect with both predator and prey playing
> intercept decks).
As LSJ pointed out in IRC yesterday, you could always declare that you
were done acting and then still have time to untap during your minion
phase. The tiny window between the last action and the end of the
phase is where Madness Network operates, and LSJ confirmed that the
window exists whether or not Madness Network is in play. This is still
possible with the optional untap, in case you want to leave an empty or
otherwise mandatorily acting vampire untapped to block/react.
Pat
news:1166550227.4...@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Huh? You have an untapped vampire who has a pending mandatory action, and
it's still your minion phase, but that vampire doesn't have to take that
action?!
If I'm understanding this correctly, could we get a non-IRC confirmation of
this ruling?
Thanks,
Pat
LSJ
Yes. [RTR 06-DEC-1999]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5060eba4e347f81