(Mighty LSJ) some more questions =)
Reyda
not enough time for chit chat, so here are the questions :
1- I use Gisela's ability to burn one of my prey's vamp. I want to play Soul
Stealing on this action... I guess this is illegal ;) but what does LSJ
think ??
2- I use Miss Lopez Ability to burn one vamp of my prey : can i play soul
stealing ? i guess yes, but...
Can i play Ritual of bitter rose ??
Can i play Draught of the soul ?
Can i play all of the above and laugh like a mad hatter ?
3- I have two vamps ready. One of them has 0 blood and the other is a IC
with 11 blood, soul gem and sport bike on him. My predator plays TOGP on my
IC. (yeah, shit happens). There's no way i can pay for her.
Can i then tap my Heidelberg castle to transfer all the blood and equipment
on my other vampire (providing it's not beast ;° ) ??
Can i transfer all the blood on her, with excess draining off as usual or
must i stop at reaching the other vamp capacity ?
4- I use Mind rape to take control of one of my prey's vamp, say Ulugh Begh
with a soul Gem. (yeah again, but philippe from our playgroup, the guy who
designed the Turbo Arika, stuff all his decks with soul gems!!)
Next turn, i tap heidelberg, and bleed with Ulugh under Daring the Dawn. He
burns. Who gets the new vampire ? i guess it's not me, but, hey, asking is
free...
Same question with Spirit Marionette. I Take control of Ulugh, tap my
heidelberg and bleed right away. Who gets the new vamp ?
If the answer is different, why ?
5- Tonight we played jyhad and Slaughterhouse/Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit combo
ruined the game of three people. Who designed this card and what's his
street adress ?
reyda
James Coupe
>hi =)
>not enough time for chit chat, so here are the questions :
>
>1- I use Gisela's ability to burn one of my prey's vamp. I want to play Soul
>Stealing on this action... I guess this is illegal ;) but what does LSJ
>think ??
Soul Stealing refers to controlled vampires.
Uncontrolled vampires aren't controlled.
>2- I use Miss Lopez Ability to burn one vamp of my prey : can i play soul
>stealing ? i guess yes, but...
Sure. It's a controlled vampire you're burning.
>Can i play Ritual of bitter rose ??
No:
"Each ready vampire you control gains an amount of blood from the blood
bank equal to the amount of blood on {a vampire being burned either by
diablerie or while in combat with this vampire}."
Neither diablerie or combat is occuring.
>Can i play Draught of the soul ?
Hmm... per the rest of bloodlines, it's playable as either combat or
action modifier (cf Madrigal) so there's no reason you can't play it, so
far as I can tell.
>3- I have two vamps ready. One of them has 0 blood and the other is a IC
>with 11 blood, soul gem and sport bike on him. My predator plays TOGP on my
>IC. (yeah, shit happens). There's no way i can pay for her.
>Can i then tap my Heidelberg castle to transfer all the blood and equipment
>on my other vampire (providing it's not beast ;° ) ??
"Heidelberg Castle may not be tapped "in response" to any instant effect
(because all effects in V:TES are instantaneous except for actions and
certain combat effects). [LSJ] "
would suggest no.
>Can i transfer all the blood on her, with excess draining off as usual or
>must i stop at reaching the other vamp capacity ?
I'd most likely rule in a situation like this that the vampire must have
enough 'space' to accept the blood.
>4- I use Mind rape to take control of one of my prey's vamp, say Ulugh Begh
>with a soul Gem. (yeah again, but philippe from our playgroup, the guy who
>designed the Turbo Arika, stuff all his decks with soul gems!!)
>Next turn, i tap heidelberg, and bleed with Ulugh under Daring the Dawn. He
>burns. Who gets the new vampire ?
You are the controller of the Ulugh Beg, ergo the controller of the
minion cards on him (except in specific circumstances, of course).
Thus you - the 'temporary' controller - are the "your" of "your crypt"
on Soul Gem.
>Same question with Spirit Marionette. I Take control of Ulugh, tap my
>heidelberg and bleed right away. Who gets the new vamp ?
>If the answer is different, why ?
I can't see any reason why the answers should be different.
--
James Coupe "Never give in to them," she whispered. "No matter what
PGP 0x5D623D5D EB they do or how important you feel it is to get their accep-
D690ECD7A1FB457CA21 tance. Never kill part of yourself for them. Because other
3D7E668C3695D623D5D people will notice that part is missing before you do."
Flux
> In message <a2d5vo$sm4$1...@quark.noos.net>, Reyda <re...@noos.fr> writes:
>>3- I have two vamps ready. One of them has 0 blood and the other is a
>>IC with 11 blood, soul gem and sport bike on him. My predator plays
>>TOGP on my IC. (yeah, shit happens). There's no way i can pay for her.
>>Can i then tap my Heidelberg castle to transfer all the blood and
>>equipment on my other vampire (providing it's not beast ;° ) ??
>
> "Heidelberg Castle may not be tapped "in response" to any instant
> effect (because all effects in V:TES are instantaneous except for
> actions and certain combat effects). [LSJ] "
>
> would suggest no.
But the bidding is not instantaneous, should it be treated as such, or
should it be treated as some sort of referendum?
I'd rule that you can't do it, but there's room for an opposite ruling.
>>Can i transfer all the blood on her, with excess draining off as usual
>>or must i stop at reaching the other vamp capacity ?
>
> I'd most likely rule in a situation like this that the vampire must
> have enough 'space' to accept the blood.
Don't see why, you can always steal/transfer more blood than the vampire's
capacity, excess just drains off.
>>4- I use Mind rape to take control of one of my prey's vamp, say Ulugh
>>Begh with a soul Gem. (yeah again, but philippe from our playgroup, the
>>guy who designed the Turbo Arika, stuff all his decks with soul gems!!)
>>Next turn, i tap heidelberg, and bleed with Ulugh under Daring the
>>Dawn. He burns. Who gets the new vampire ?
>
> You are the controller of the Ulugh Beg, ergo the controller of the
> minion cards on him (except in specific circumstances, of course).
>
> Thus you - the 'temporary' controller - are the "your" of "your crypt"
> on Soul Gem.
>
>
>>Same question with Spirit Marionette. I Take control of Ulugh, tap my
>>heidelberg and bleed right away. Who gets the new vamp ?
>>If the answer is different, why ?
>
> I can't see any reason why the answers should be different.
Because Spirit Marionette restores control at the end of the action, at
the same time that he gets burned.
I'd rule that the controlling Methuselah can order the two events as he
sees fit, so you could chose to burn him and then fail to lose control of
him, or lose control of Ulugh and then let him burn (maybe you already
know that you next vampire is an 11 and you'd rather use the Soul Gem
yourself later :-)
Flux
LSJ
>
> In message <a2d5vo$sm4$1...@quark.noos.net>, Reyda <re...@noos.fr> writes:
> >hi =)
> >not enough time for chit chat, so here are the questions :
> >
> >1- I use Gisela's ability to burn one of my prey's vamp. I want to play Soul
> >Stealing on this action... I guess this is illegal ;) but what does LSJ
> >think ??
>
> Soul Stealing refers to controlled vampires.
>
> Uncontrolled vampires aren't controlled.
Correct. Soul Stealing cannot be played since the stated condition isn't met.
> >2- I use Miss Lopez Ability to burn one vamp of my prey : can i play soul
> >stealing ? i guess yes, but...
>
> Sure. It's a controlled vampire you're burning.
Correct.
> >Can i play Ritual of bitter rose ??
>
> No:
>
> "Each ready vampire you control gains an amount of blood from the blood
> bank equal to the amount of blood on {a vampire being burned either by
> diablerie or while in combat with this vampire}."
>
> Neither diablerie or combat is occuring.
Correct.
> >Can i play Draught of the soul ?
>
> Hmm... per the rest of bloodlines, it's playable as either combat or
> action modifier (cf Madrigal) so there's no reason you can't play it, so
> far as I can tell.
It can be played, correct.
> >3- I have two vamps ready. One of them has 0 blood and the other is a IC
> >with 11 blood, soul gem and sport bike on him. My predator plays TOGP on my
> >IC. (yeah, shit happens). There's no way i can pay for her.
> >Can i then tap my Heidelberg castle to transfer all the blood and equipment
> >on my other vampire (providing it's not beast ;° ) ??
>
> "Heidelberg Castle may not be tapped "in response" to any instant effect
> (because all effects in V:TES are instantaneous except for actions and
> certain combat effects). [LSJ] "
>
> would suggest no.
Correct.
You have to finish the TOGP (or HT) effect (including the bidding and subsequent
change of control) before playing new effects. [LSJ 05-MAY-1998]
> >Can i transfer all the blood on her, with excess draining off as usual or
> >must i stop at reaching the other vamp capacity ?
>
> I'd most likely rule in a situation like this that the vampire must have
> enough 'space' to accept the blood.
In general, you can move (with HC, Rave, Theft of Vitae, Sermon of Caine, etc.)
as much blood as you like, even in excess of the target's capacity. The excess
drains off when you do, as normal, of course.
> >4- I use Mind rape to take control of one of my prey's vamp, say Ulugh Begh
> >with a soul Gem. (yeah again, but philippe from our playgroup, the guy who
> >designed the Turbo Arika, stuff all his decks with soul gems!!)
> >Next turn, i tap heidelberg, and bleed with Ulugh under Daring the Dawn. He
> >burns. Who gets the new vampire ?
>
> You are the controller of the Ulugh Beg, ergo the controller of the
> minion cards on him (except in specific circumstances, of course).
>
> Thus you - the 'temporary' controller - are the "your" of "your crypt"
> on Soul Gem.
Correct.
> >Same question with Spirit Marionette. I Take control of Ulugh, tap my
> >heidelberg and bleed right away. Who gets the new vamp ?
> >If the answer is different, why ?
>
> I can't see any reason why the answers should be different.
It is the same, correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ
Correct.
Orpheus
> Next turn, i tap heidelberg, and bleed with Ulugh under Daring the Dawn.
He
> burns.
How do you do that ? If he's at 1 blood, he takes 2 aggravated from the
Daring, so the first one puts him at 0 blood and the next one sends him to
torpor, right ? So, no burn...
And if you put him at 0 blood, then make him hunt, he gains one blood and
takes 2 aggravated, don't work either...
Bummer, ain't it ? ;-)
> 5- Tonight we played jyhad and Slaughterhouse/Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit
combo
How did U do that ? He doesn't have Cel ?! If U needed some Cel masters, it
seems quite a far-fetched combo !!
> ruined the game of three people.
How ? No more cards to play ?
> Who designed this card and what's his
> street adress ?
Wouldn't you rather know the addresses of Chris Shy's female models ? I sure
would...
Orph
Ben Swainbank
>
> 5- Tonight we played jyhad and Slaughterhouse/Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit combo
> ruined the game of three people. Who designed this card and what's his
> street adress ?
>
You should note that Agaitas's special can only be used to replace
a card you *play*. So, extra cards drawn due to Infernal Pursuit, or
to replace a card you've discarded, have to come from your own library.
So, Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit (hopefully) isn't as nasty as you may have
been using it.
-Ben Swainbank
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Reyda
"Orpheus" <orph...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:a2ekup$jp7$1...@wanadoo.fr...
>
> > Next turn, i tap heidelberg, and bleed with Ulugh under Daring the Dawn.
> He
> > burns.
>
> How do you do that ? If he's at 1 blood, he takes 2 aggravated from the
> Daring, so the first one puts him at 0 blood and the next one sends him to
> torpor, right ? So, no burn...
Conditioning, pal =)
> > 5- Tonight we played jyhad and Slaughterhouse/Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit
> combo
>
> How did U do that ? He doesn't have Cel ?! If U needed some Cel masters,
it
> seems quite a far-fetched combo !!
Smal vamps with CEL. Some Justicars (like Ulugh and Angus) with a vast mix
of disciplines, to play all your prey's cards. Agaitas is here only for his
special and the slaughterhouse combo. It's not farfetched. It works.
> > ruined the game of three people.
>
> How ? No more cards to play ?
Somebody plays with your cards... You don't play half of them.
> > Who designed this card and what's his
> > street adress ?
>
> Wouldn't you rather know the addresses of Chris Shy's female models ? I
sure
> would...
I won't go there for the same purpose though... ;)
> Orph
>
>
Reyda
"Ben Swainbank" <bswai...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1aa7cbad6e1e026a88...@mygate.mailgate.org...
>
> >
> > 5- Tonight we played jyhad and Slaughterhouse/Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit
combo
> > ruined the game of three people. Who designed this card and what's his
> > street adress ?
> >
>
> You should note that Agaitas's special can only be used to replace
> a card you *play*. So, extra cards drawn due to Infernal Pursuit, or
> to replace a card you've discarded, have to come from your own library.
>
> So, Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit (hopefully) isn't as nasty as you may have
> been using it.
We used it the correct way.
During combat, you play infernal pursuit. You replace one from your library,
one from your opponent's.
You maneuver to long using your card. You take a second card from your
opponent. You dodge or strike, using your opponent's card. You draw one from
your library, one from your preys. You pley press using your preys lib, you
draw from him again.. And so on. Infernal pursuit is only kind of a
"starter".
Granted, you take only one card at a time from your prey, but when you play
big vamps with a lot of different disciplines, you can end with a full hand
from your prey's library. I had my D.I., Minion Tap, Skin of steel,
Swallowed by the night and Improvised flamethrower stolen this way during a
sinle combat...
reyda
Orpheus
Dawn.
> > He
> > > burns.
> >
> > How do you do that ? If he's at 1 blood, he takes 2 aggravated from the
> > Daring, so the first one puts him at 0 blood and the next one sends him
to
> > torpor, right ? So, no burn...
>
> Conditioning, pal =)
Nasty, nasty... :-)
You have to capture a Ventrue or antitribu, though, or another guy with Dom
/ For, or it doesn't work ; doesn't either if he has FOR...
> > > 5- Tonight we played jyhad and Slaughterhouse/Agaitas/Infernal Pursuit
> > combo
> >
> > How did U do that ? He doesn't have Cel ?! If U needed some Cel masters,
> it
> > seems quite a far-fetched combo !!
>
> Smal vamps with CEL. Some Justicars (like Ulugh and Angus) with a vast mix
> of disciplines, to play all your prey's cards. Agaitas is here only for
his
> special and the slaughterhouse combo. It's not farfetched. It works.
Which brings another question : contrarily to Egotha, Agaitas' special isn't
mention to be used "when he is ready" ; so, can't you use it only when HE
plays cards, not the mathuselah ? LSJ ?
> > > ruined the game of three people.
> >
> > How ? No more cards to play ?
>
> Somebody plays with your cards... You don't play half of them.
Yeah, but then you're stuck with lots of stupid cards you can't play ; you
need the Barrens, Ian Forrestal, and / or to daemonic possess your prey's
dead weenies !!
Xian
> > > > Next turn, i tap heidelberg, and bleed with Ulugh under Daring the
Dom
> / For, or it doesn't work ; doesn't either if he has FOR...
You can always use the effect at for, you don't *have* to use the FOR
effect...
:)
Xian
Chris Berger
>
> Which brings another question : contrarily to Egotha, Agaitas' special
isn't
> mention to be used "when he is ready" ; so, can't you use it only when HE
> plays cards, not the mathuselah ? LSJ ?
>
doesn't have to be ready, so it applies from torpor as well.
> > Somebody plays with your cards... You don't play half of them.
>
> Yeah, but then you're stuck with lots of stupid cards you can't play ; you
> need the Barrens, Ian Forrestal, and / or to daemonic possess your prey's
> dead weenies !!
>
Deal with the Devil. Discard all those crappy cards and draw useful ones.
Or like you said, use Ian or your prey's vamps.
Flux
>> >
>> > How ? No more cards to play ?
>>
>> Somebody plays with your cards... You don't play half of them.
>
> Yeah, but then you're stuck with lots of stupid cards you can't play ;
> you need the Barrens, Ian Forrestal, and / or to daemonic possess your
> prey's dead weenies !!
With Infernal Pursuit he will draw one card from his prey's library _and_
one card from his library, and then discard one card. If he can use the
stolen card he keeps it, otherwise he can discard it immediately. :-)
Flux
LSJ
> > mention to be used "when he is ready" ; so, can't you use it only when HE
> > plays cards, not the mathuselah ? LSJ ?
> >
> It says "when YOU play a card", so it works. Also, as you mention, he
> doesn't have to be ready, so it applies from torpor as well.
Correct. "You" refers to the controlling Methuselah.