More Spoiler Texts! (was Re: New Scrye)
Halcyan 2
>
>Issue #53 (Sept.)
Finally managed to get my hands on a copy! Scrye must be happy - without the
Camarilla stuff, I wouldn't have even bothered! =)
>It's the old picture but with the new layout.
Yep. At least they didn't mangle her picture! (Referring to Rebekka)
Ouch! Trying to read those tiny card texts is really straining my eyes. Here's
what I've been able to come up!:
>Sir Ralph Hamilton (see the preview site)
> Tyler BRU 9, dom for obt CEL POT PRE, primogen
Uh-oh. Uh-oh. (Uh-oh)^3.
If I read it right, something along the lines of:
"When Tyler diablerizes a vampire she untaps and gains 1 blood from the blood
bank. Once per turn she may burn a blood to get +1 bleed (four other words. I
think it's "for an ??? ???")."
Pretty cool picture from what I can tell.
But with her diablerize/untap special, and inferior Fortitude, I think she's a
top contender to show how Freak Drive, Archon, and the new watered-down NRA
won't work very well together (balance-wise). Archon Tyler attacks you and
torporizes you, untaps with Freak Drive. Diablerizes and untaps with her
special. Repeat until she's the only one left... (and with her special, you
only need half the number of Freak Drives. In addition, it's uses "when"
phrasing, not "during" or "once per turn", etc.).
> Cock Robin NOS 10, aus for ANI OBF POT, justicar
<< Cock Robin is nosferatu justicar and has +1 str and may untap after
playing an animalism card (at the end of the turn, i believe). >>
"Once per turn when Cock Robin successfully performs an action that requires
Animalism, he untaps at the end of the action. +1 strength."
That sounds right. From the original guess, I was getting worried since he'd
untap from playing a Carrion Crows but the action-thingy sounds right.
Another strange thing is that Cock Robin and Khalid mark a departure from the
recent tradition of using discipline symbols. (i.e. Sargon Fragment, etc. show
the little symbols). These vampires don't, though their text boxes are really
cramped anyway.
> Khalid NOS 9, tha ANI AUS OBF POT, primogen
<< Khalid may pay a blood and use a master phase action to discard a card
from your hand requiring obfuscate to gain 1 pool (how cool is that?!) >>
Yup.
"During your master phase, if Khalid is ready, you may use a master phase
action and discard a card that requires Obfuscate from your hand to get a
pool."
> Suzanne Kadim TOR 7, aus dom obf CEL PRE, +1 bleed
(Nothing else).
> Alan Sovereign TRE 6, for pre AUS DOM
Yeah, the ad distinctly shows a Tremere symbol even though the spoiler says
Ventrue. In case you have the GameTrade magazine or some other page with a
spreadsheet of the art, Alan is the guy with glasses and a tie who's grimacing.
???
"When you play an investment card add an additional counter to it from the
blood bank."
Amusing...
> Kyoko Shinsegawa TRE 5, aus cel dom for
In addition, something along the lines of:
"Kyoko hunts by stealing a blood from another ready vampire as a +1 stealth (D)
action, instead of performing the usual(?) hunt action."
Decent picture. Even without the thaumaturgy, her hunt ability seems really
cool (if I read it right).
I am curious how this interacts with other hunt-related cards. Card text seems
to imply that this is still a hunt action (unlike say, Legacy of Caine), so I'm
not sure how this is affected by Aaron's Feeding Razor, Inbase Discotek,
Masquerade Endangered, XTC-Laced Blood, Foul Blood, etc.
> Lucas Halton TRE 10, qui AUS CEL DOM THA, prince
Ewwww! Not a big fan of the picture at all... =(
> Masika St John TRE 3, THA
(Nothing else)
Yay! Please note that this Masika is female. Decent Christopher Shy picture
that sort of reminds me of Kij (though with funkier hair). Even though she
can't be used with Sarah Cobbler, I'm sure she'll do well with Blythe. Now, if
only the !Tremere had a three-cap with THA too...::sighs::
Anyway, she fits right in with Cryptic Mission decks! =P
Also, the new Second Tradition: Domain is trouble.
"Requires a ready prince or justicar. +2 intercept. Also usable by a tapped
prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn a blood to
untap and attempt to block with +2 intercept."
Notice that it's a burn blood requirement (not a cost of 1 blood).
But the problem is the picture, which I *know* people are going to hate. It's
classic Durwin Talon (a la Banner of Neutrality) but the sky is such a *tacky
orange* that it's quite an eyesore. It looks like those sunglasses you bought
just so you could use Banner of Neutrality without going blind are going to be
necessary when using the new 2nd Tradition too...
Halcyan 2
Jozxyqk
> bank. Once per turn she may burn a blood to get +1 bleed (four other words. I
> think it's "for an ??? ???")."
> Pretty cool picture from what I can tell.
> But with her diablerize/untap special, and inferior Fortitude, I think she's a
> top contender to show how Freak Drive, Archon, and the new watered-down NRA
> won't work very well together (balance-wise). Archon Tyler attacks you and
> torporizes you, untaps with Freak Drive. Diablerizes and untaps with her
> special. Repeat until she's the only one left... (and with her special, you
> only need half the number of Freak Drives. In addition, it's uses "when"
> phrasing, not "during" or "once per turn", etc.).
... or, instead of Freak Driving, she just plays Amaranth as a
replacement for old Majesty. Ouch!
> "Once per turn when Cock Robin successfully performs an action that requires
> Animalism, he untaps at the end of the action. +1 strength."
> That sounds right. From the original guess, I was getting worried since he'd
> untap from playing a Carrion Crows but the action-thingy sounds right.
Well, without Navar McClaren to kick around with Group 3 vampires, who else
is going to play the Armies of Rats? ;)
> "During your master phase, if Khalid is ready, you may use a master phase
> action and discard a card that requires Obfuscate from your hand to get a
> pool."
A reward for jamming your hand? Sounds delicious.
>> Alan Sovereign TRE 6, for pre AUS DOM
> "When you play an investment card add an additional counter to it from the
> blood bank."
With the new Protracted Investment, that's 6 for 2 pool.
I wonder what else counts as an Investment? Just Short-term and Long-term?
Or will Slave Auction, Secret Horde, etc, be ruled as such?
Of course, I doubt we'll be able to get official clarification on this from
LSJ until the real spoiler on this guy comes out, but we can hope...?
>> Masika St John TRE 3, THA
> (Nothing else)
> Yay! Please note that this Masika is female. Decent Christopher Shy picture
> that sort of reminds me of Kij (though with funkier hair). Even though she
> can't be used with Sarah Cobbler, I'm sure she'll do well with Blythe. Now, if
> only the !Tremere had a three-cap with THA too...::sighs::
If not for Grouping, there might be confusion here, if the other Masika got
out.. "Masika can untap between Methuselah's turns..." Luckily this won't
be an issue.
> "Requires a ready prince or justicar. +2 intercept. Also usable by a tapped
> prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn a blood to
> untap and attempt to block with +2 intercept."
> Notice that it's a burn blood requirement (not a cost of 1 blood).
So empty tapped Princes can still use it for free? That's not bad.
Side note:
With the new Majesty, the solution is simple: Just give two Presence
Masters to Dragos; then he can untap for FREE! wheeeeee! :)
Halcyan 2
>she's a
>> top contender to show how Freak Drive, Archon, and the new watered-down NRA
>> won't work very well together (balance-wise). Archon Tyler attacks you and
>> torporizes you, untaps with Freak Drive. Diablerizes and untaps with her
>> special. Repeat until she's the only one left... (and with her special, you
>> only need half the number of Freak Drives. In addition, it's uses "when"
>> phrasing, not "during" or "once per turn", etc.).
>
>... or, instead of Freak Driving, she just plays Amaranth as a
>replacement for old Majesty. Ouch!
That is just wrong!!! =P
>>> Alan Sovereign TRE 6, for pre AUS DOM
>
>> "When you play an investment card add an additional counter to it from the
>> blood bank."
>
>With the new Protracted Investment, that's 6 for 2 pool.
>
>I wonder what else counts as an Investment? Just Short-term and Long-term?
>Or will Slave Auction, Secret Horde, etc, be ruled as such?
>
>Of course, I doubt we'll be able to get official clarification on this from
>LSJ until the real spoiler on this guy comes out, but we can hope...?
I was wondering about that as well. Right now, it seems like Investment is just
a function of card text (thus limited to Short-Term and Long-Term). It is
possible that they could make Investment a trait as well.
>>> Masika St John TRE 3, THA
>
>> (Nothing else)
>
>> Yay! Please note that this Masika is female. Decent Christopher Shy picture
>> that sort of reminds me of Kij (though with funkier hair). Even though she
>> can't be used with Sarah Cobbler, I'm sure she'll do well with Blythe. Now,
>if
>> only the !Tremere had a three-cap with THA too...::sighs::
>
>If not for Grouping, there might be confusion here, if the other Masika got
>out.. "Masika can untap between Methuselah's turns..." Luckily this won't
>be an issue.
LOL. Actually, it could still be an issue if one player is playing old-school
Toreador and another is playing new-school Tremere. If you look at some other
cards you'll see that Francois Villon's text refers to him as Francois, Aisling
Sturbridge's text refers to her as Aisling, etc. So "Masika" could refer to
either "Masika" (Toreador) or "Masika St. John". Hmmm...maybe it's time for
either some common sense or a ruling! =P
>> "Requires a ready prince or justicar. +2 intercept. Also usable by a tapped
>> prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn a blood to
>> untap and attempt to block with +2 intercept."
>
>> Notice that it's a burn blood requirement (not a cost of 1 blood).
>
>So empty tapped Princes can still use it for free? That's not bad.
No. Note the wording. Burn a blood to do something. If you don't burn a blood,
you don't get to do that thing.
>Side note:
>With the new Majesty, the solution is simple: Just give two Presence
>Masters to Dragos; then he can untap for FREE! wheeeeee! :)
Maybe they'll have to make a mid-cap Toreador who plays Presense cards for one
less blood...
Halcyan 2
LSJ
> I am curious how this interacts with other hunt-related cards. Card text seems
> to imply that this is still a hunt action (unlike say, Legacy of Caine), so I'm
> not sure how this is affected by Aaron's Feeding Razor, Inbase Discotek,
> Masquerade Endangered, XTC-Laced Blood, Foul Blood, etc.
Legacy of Caine's action is a hunt action (card text). Other hunt actions would
follow the same precedent.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ
> >If not for Grouping, there might be confusion here, if the other Masika got
> >out.. "Masika can untap between Methuselah's turns..." Luckily this won't
> >be an issue.
>
> LOL. Actually, it could still be an issue if one player is playing old-school
> Toreador and another is playing new-school Tremere. If you look at some other
> cards you'll see that Francois Villon's text refers to him as Francois, Aisling
> Sturbridge's text refers to her as Aisling, etc. So "Masika" could refer to
> either "Masika" (Toreador) or "Masika St. John". Hmmm...maybe it's time for
> either some common sense or a ruling! =P
You mean like the common sense ruling that Angela Preston "required" vs. Angela
Decker?
Delilah Monroe vs. Delilah Easton?
Ian Forestal vs. Ian Wallingford?
Ingrid Rossler vs. Ingrid Russo?
Jack vs. Jack Dawson?
Sarah Brando vs. Sarah Cobbler?
Thomas Steed vs. Thomas Thorne?
Victoria vs. Victoria Ash?
(The Isabels, Lolitas, Rolands, and Victors don't qualify since they lack
self-referential card text)
reyda
> Halcyan 2 wrote:
>> I am curious how this interacts with other hunt-related cards.
>> Card text seems to imply that this is still a hunt action (unlike
>> say, Legacy of Caine), so I'm not sure how this is affected by
>> Aaron's Feeding Razor, Inbase Discotek, Masquerade Endangered, XTC-
>> Laced Blood, Foul Blood, etc.
>
> Legacy of Caine's action is a hunt action (card text). Other hunt
> actions would follow the same precedent.
????
hesha at 7 capacity, impersonated Ravnos, with a legacy of caine, Aaron
feeding razor on him and week of nightmare in to play attempts a hunt action
: What happens then ??
reyda
The Lasombra
wrote:
>????
>hesha at 7 capacity, impersonated Ravnos, with a legacy of caine, Aaron
>feeding razor on him and week of nightmare in to play attempts a hunt action
>: What happens then ??
He steals 1 blood from another Ravnos at 1 stealth.
Pertinent card text of Week of Nightmares.
"Any ready Ravnos may hunt by stealing a blood from any other Ravnos
as a +1 stealth (D) action. "
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
Halcyan 2
>Angela
>Decker?
Ha ha! You got me there LSJ! =)
But really. My 11th grade English teacher did tell me one time that I lacked
common sense...
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2
>seems
>> to imply that this is still a hunt action (unlike say, Legacy of Caine), so
>I'm
>> not sure how this is affected by Aaron's Feeding Razor, Inbase Discotek,
>> Masquerade Endangered, XTC-Laced Blood, Foul Blood, etc.
>
>Legacy of Caine's action is a hunt action (card text). Other hunt actions
>would
>follow the same precedent.
But I'm still not exactly sure why that is. Comparing text, Kyoko's special
functions pretty much like Legacy of Caine (except with +1 stealth).
"Put this card on a vampire with a capacity above 6 controlled by another
Methuselah. When the vampire with this card hunts, he or she steals 1 blood
from another vampire as a (D) action instead of performing the usual hunting
action."
The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not affected by
effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g., Aaron's Feeding Razor).
[RTR 19970630]
"Vampire with this equipment gains 1 <additional> blood when hunting."
Why wouldn't Kyoko (or some Legacy of Caine vampire) with a Feeding Razor who
hunts: #1. steal 1 blood from another vampire and then #2. gain an additional
blood from the Razor. Cards like Aaron's Feeding Razor simply state that the
vampire gains an additional blood when hunting. It seems clear that you
wouldn't steal extra blood. But nevertheless, it is a hunt action so why is it
such a special case?
I think it's also a bit confusing due to the "additional" part. The strongest
argument I can find is with Reverend Blackwood's ability and Lucky Blow
referring to +1 damage. If there is no damage, there is no bonus. But in other
cases, the use of the word "additional" doesn't require something to begin
with. You (or a vampire) can gain additional votes even if you (or the vampire)
has none to begin with. You can gain additional strikes even if you don't have
an initial strike. A Terror Frenzy (which requires the burning of an additional
blood) is effective even if the card normally wouldn't require the burning of
any blood. So why do you need to gain at least one blood normally from a hunt
action for the "additional blood" clause to hold?
Irregardless of that, some other questions:
Is the steal blood hunt action text a modification of the normal hunt action,
or an "action allowed by a card in play"? It would seem inconsistent that under
the new NRA, random Vampire A could hunt a hundred times in one turn but Kyoko
or a vampire with the Legacy of Caine would be limited to only once. I get the
feeling that it's a modification since the rules also state "with no
restrictions on, for example, hunting." If that is true, then Kyoko could hunt
multiple times per turn (using Freak Drive or something)?
Okay, so we know that:
The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not affected by
effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g., Aaron's Feeding Razor).
[RTR 19970630]
So it's clear the this steal hunt doesn't interact with Aaron's Feeding Razor,
Inbase Discotek, Hungry Coyote, Festivo dello Estinto, Immaculate Vitae
(superior part), Succulent Vitae (superior part)
#1. Kyoko hunts and some Assamite plays Foul Blood. So Kyoko steals 1 blood
(not affected by Foul Blood) and then takes a damage. Right?
#2. Masquerade Endangered says "That vampire does not gain blood from hunting
this turn." This clearly seems to be an "effect that affects the amount gained
by hunting." So if Kyoko hunts and a Masquerade Endangered is played, then she
still steals 1 blood , but burns ME instead of untapping next untap, right?
#3. While a normal vampire can't get stuck into a hunting loop due to Vampiric
Disease (since he/she can't gain blood from hunting), a vampire who hunts by
stealing blood, can, right? Kyoko has 1 blood and burns it when she untaps due
to Vampiric Disease. She hunts. But since it is not "affected by effects that
affect the amount gained by hunting" she still steals (and thus gains) a blood
from hunting, right?
#4. Since this is not a normal hunt action, if Kyoko hunts while a Strained
Vitae Supply is in play, her hunt action is still at +1 stealth, right? (since
it's not a "normal +1 stealth")
Thanks!
Halcyan 2
hunting for more hunt questions
Halcyan 2
>Vitae Supply is in play, her hunt action is still at +1 stealth, right?
>(since
>it's not a "normal +1 stealth")
Looking back through some old posts, you once stated:
From: LSJ (vte...@wizards.com)
Subject: Re: LSJ: Stealth on Strained Vitae Supply
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
View this article only
Date: 1998/04/08
Michael Beer wrote:
> [Strained Vitae Supply] Card text is:
>
> "Master. If this card is in play, vampires do not get stealth when
> hunting. Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to put 1 pool on
> this card. If the number of counters on this card equals the number of
> Methuselahs in the game, burn this card"
>
> Can hunting under the effect of SVS get stealth in any way (Modifiers,
> permanents, ...) or is any additional stealth reduced to zero due to
> card text.
The former. Only the default +1 stealth (or whatever other default
stealth a vampire has when hunting) is affected. That's the stealth
the vampire doesn't get when hunting.
> Wording seems to support this view that hunting has *no*
> stealth at all and there would be *no* means to change it. You could
> IMHO use cards that would normally would increase your stealth, but in
> case of hunting under SVS condition, without effect.
The wording is poor, yes. But "do not get" is not the same as "can
not get".
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
In particular, the part about "or whatever other default stealth a vampire has
when hunting." I'm pretty sure that's not the intent, but doesn't it mean that
when a Strained Vitae Supply is out, Hesha, Muaziz, Rebekka, Lucretia,
Spider-Killer, Fidus, Jost, and Suhailah (with a Prince/Justicar out controlled
by prey) all hunt at 0-stealth? Because isn't that their default stealth?
I've always played that they'd hunt at +1 stealth. +1 stealth (default) - 1
stealth (Strained Vitae Supply) + 1 (special ability) = +1 stealth. But your
quote regarding affecting the default stealth has given me some second
thoughts.
On a side note, if Hesha has a Legacy of Caine placed on him (say he had a
discipline card on him to up his capacity), then he would steal 1 blood from
another vampire as a +1 stealth action right? His +1stealth on hunt special
would still function but the additional blood part wouldn't?
Halcyan 2
hunting is a sore topic...especially for foxes...right Josh?
LSJ
>
> >> I am curious how this interacts with other hunt-related cards. Card text
> >seems
> >> to imply that this is still a hunt action (unlike say, Legacy of Caine), so
> >I'm
> >> not sure how this is affected by Aaron's Feeding Razor, Inbase Discotek,
> >> Masquerade Endangered, XTC-Laced Blood, Foul Blood, etc.
> >
> >Legacy of Caine's action is a hunt action (card text). Other hunt actions
> >would
> >follow the same precedent.
>
> But I'm still not exactly sure why that is. Comparing text, Kyoko's special
> functions pretty much like Legacy of Caine (except with +1 stealth).
That's a good reason to follow the precedent.
> "Put this card on a vampire with a capacity above 6 controlled by another
> Methuselah. When the vampire with this card hunts, he or she steals 1 blood
> from another vampire as a (D) action instead of performing the usual hunting
> action."
>
> The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not affected by
> effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g., Aaron's Feeding Razor).
> [RTR 19970630]
>
> "Vampire with this equipment gains 1 <additional> blood when hunting."
>
> Why wouldn't Kyoko (or some Legacy of Caine vampire) with a Feeding Razor who
> hunts: #1. steal 1 blood from another vampire and then #2. gain an additional
> blood from the Razor. Cards like Aaron's Feeding Razor simply state that the
> vampire gains an additional blood when hunting. It seems clear that you
> wouldn't steal extra blood. But nevertheless, it is a hunt action so why is it
> such a special case?
You'd have to ask the RT who made the ruling, but I'll hazard a guess:
Because the hunt action effect (get 1+mod blood from the blood bank) has been
replaced by the stated effect.
I'll put the hunting mods on the list for RT review, though, since it's
a pretty odd ruling that, as you note below, causes some problems.
> I think it's also a bit confusing due to the "additional" part. The strongest
> argument I can find is with Reverend Blackwood's ability and Lucky Blow
> referring to +1 damage. If there is no damage, there is no bonus. But in other
> cases, the use of the word "additional" doesn't require something to begin
> with. You (or a vampire) can gain additional votes even if you (or the vampire)
> has none to begin with. You can gain additional strikes even if you don't have
> an initial strike. A Terror Frenzy (which requires the burning of an additional
> blood) is effective even if the card normally wouldn't require the burning of
> any blood. So why do you need to gain at least one blood normally from a hunt
> action for the "additional blood" clause to hold?
The "additional" is/becomes part of the effect that is replaced by the new hunt
effect.
> Irregardless of that, some other questions:
That's "regardless", BTW.
> Is the steal blood hunt action text a modification of the normal hunt action,
> or an "action allowed by a card in play"? It would seem inconsistent that under
Action allowed by card in play.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D2C1F73.503D5894%40white-wolf.com
> the new NRA, random Vampire A could hunt a hundred times in one turn but Kyoko
> or a vampire with the Legacy of Caine would be limited to only once. I get the
It is not.
One is an action allowed by a card in play. The other is not.
For instance, a vampire can "leave torpor" all he likes (Day Oping each
one, for example), but can "Rapid Heal" only once.
> feeling that it's a modification since the rules also state "with no
> restrictions on, for example, hunting." If that is true, then Kyoko could hunt
> multiple times per turn (using Freak Drive or something)?
No.
> Okay, so we know that:
>
> The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not affected by
> effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g., Aaron's Feeding Razor).
> [RTR 19970630]
>
> So it's clear the this steal hunt doesn't interact with Aaron's Feeding Razor,
> Inbase Discotek, Hungry Coyote, Festivo dello Estinto, Immaculate Vitae
> (superior part), Succulent Vitae (superior part)
>
> #1. Kyoko hunts and some Assamite plays Foul Blood. So Kyoko steals 1 blood
> (not affected by Foul Blood) and then takes a damage. Right?
Right.
> #2. Masquerade Endangered says "That vampire does not gain blood from hunting
> this turn." This clearly seems to be an "effect that affects the amount gained
> by hunting." So if Kyoko hunts and a Masquerade Endangered is played, then she
> still steals 1 blood , but burns ME instead of untapping next untap, right?
No. ME doesn't change the amount. It restricts the gaining of blood.
> #3. While a normal vampire can't get stuck into a hunting loop due to Vampiric
> Disease (since he/she can't gain blood from hunting), a vampire who hunts by
> stealing blood, can, right? Kyoko has 1 blood and burns it when she untaps due
> to Vampiric Disease. She hunts. But since it is not "affected by effects that
> affect the amount gained by hunting" she still steals (and thus gains) a blood
> from hunting, right?
No. As ME above.
> #4. Since this is not a normal hunt action, if Kyoko hunts while a Strained
> Vitae Supply is in play, her hunt action is still at +1 stealth, right? (since
> it's not a "normal +1 stealth")
No. She "normally" gets +1 stealth when hunting, so SVS affects that.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. ERC
LSJ
> In particular, the part about "or whatever other default stealth a vampire has
> when hunting." I'm pretty sure that's not the intent, but doesn't it mean that
> when a Strained Vitae Supply is out, Hesha, Muaziz, Rebekka, Lucretia,
> Spider-Killer, Fidus, Jost, and Suhailah (with a Prince/Justicar out controlled
> by prey) all hunt at 0-stealth? Because isn't that their default stealth?
No. SVS: normal "+1 stealth"
So Hesha doesn't get his normal +1 stealth, reducing him from +2 stealth to just
+1 stealth.
> I've always played that they'd hunt at +1 stealth. +1 stealth (default) - 1
> stealth (Strained Vitae Supply) + 1 (special ability) = +1 stealth. But your
> quote regarding affecting the default stealth has given me some second
> thoughts.
SVS doesn't give -1, BTW, it merely cancels the normal +1.
(For cases like Festivo - the Sabbat won't be hunting at -1 stealth, just at 0).
> On a side note, if Hesha has a Legacy of Caine placed on him (say he had a
> discipline card on him to up his capacity), then he would steal 1 blood from
> another vampire as a +1 stealth action right? His +1stealth on hunt special
> would still function but the additional blood part wouldn't?
Right.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Halcyan 2
>> functions pretty much like Legacy of Caine (except with +1 stealth).
>
>That's a good reason to follow the precedent.
Hey don't forget that I sometimes lack common sense! I prefer the term "common
sensely challenged." =P
>You'd have to ask the RT who made the ruling, but I'll hazard a guess:
>
>Because the hunt action effect (get 1+mod blood from the blood bank) has been
>replaced by the stated effect.
>
>I'll put the hunting mods on the list for RT review, though, since it's
>a pretty odd ruling that, as you note below, causes some problems.
Okay.
>The "additional" is/becomes part of the effect that is replaced by the new
>hunt
>effect.
Still an odd ruling, but at least this explains it a bit.
>> Irregardless of that, some other questions:
>
>That's "regardless", BTW.
I was referring to Infra-Red Regardless-ness of course. Now I'm full of ire at
add an inappropriate ir.
>> the new NRA, random Vampire A could hunt a hundred times in one turn but
>Kyoko
>> or a vampire with the Legacy of Caine would be limited to only once. I get
>the
>
>It is not.
>One is an action allowed by a card in play. The other is not.
>For instance, a vampire can "leave torpor" all he likes (Day Oping each
>one, for example), but can "Rapid Heal" only once.
But didn't the new NRA explicitly say "with no restrictions on, for example,
hunting." Kyoko is hunting but she apparently *does* have a restriction. Isn't
that a bit contradictory?
>> #4. Since this is not a normal hunt action, if Kyoko hunts while a Strained
>> Vitae Supply is in play, her hunt action is still at +1 stealth, right?
>(since
>> it's not a "normal +1 stealth")
>
>No. She "normally" gets +1 stealth when hunting, so SVS affects that.
So there is a difference between a vampire who "hunts at +2 stealth" and one
who "gets a +1 stealth when hunting." While normally they would both hunt at +2
stealth, under a SVS, the first would hunt at 0-stealth while the other would
hunt at +1 stealth?
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2
>1
>> stealth (Strained Vitae Supply) + 1 (special ability) = +1 stealth. But
>your
>> quote regarding affecting the default stealth has given me some second
>> thoughts.
>
>SVS doesn't give -1, BTW, it merely cancels the normal +1.
>(For cases like Festivo - the Sabbat won't be hunting at -1 stealth, just at
>0).
Huh? Under an SVS and Festivo, wouldn't a Sabbat vampire hunt at -1 stealth?
The Sabbat vampire wouldn't get the default +1 stealth due to SVS, and Festivo
causes him to "get -1 stealth when attempting to hunt." So wouldn't it all be
at -1 stealth?
Also:
Normally:
Igo hunts at 0-stealth (0=0)
Le Dinh Tho hunts at 0-stealth (1-1=0)
Under a SVS:
Igo hunts at 0-stealth (0=0)
Le Dinh Tho hunts at -1 stealth (0-1=-1)
Right?
Halcyan 2
Sacha
> hesha at 7 capacity, impersonated Ravnos, with a legacy of caine, Aaron
> feeding razor on him and week of nightmare in to play attempts a hunt action
> : What happens then ??
>
> reyda
What happens is that Hesha quickly sifens the blood off of another
Ravanos vamp...Then gets rushed grappled and severly beaten : - )
Legacy of Cain states that:
Put this card on a vampire with a capacity above 6 controlled by
another Methuselah. When the vampire with this card hunts, he or she
steals 1 blood from another vampire as a (D) action instead of
performing the usual hunting action.
This would limit you to one blood stolen.
Week of Nightmares states:
Put this card in play and place 10 nightmare counters on it. During
each Methuselah's untap phase, he or she may move a nightmare counter
from this card to a Ravnos. When the last counter is moved, each
Ravnos must burn a blood for each nightmare counter or be burned, and
this card and all nightmare counters are then burned. While this card
is in play, all Ravnos get +1 bleed and +1 strength and do not hunt as
normal. Any ready Ravnos may hunt by stealing a blood from any other
Ravnos as a +1 stealth (D) action. Only one Week of Nightmares may be
played during a game.
Hopefully there is someone else at the table playing with Ravanos or
the combo wouldn't work very well for you.
However, if there are other Ravanos at the table, it would become very
funny, very quickly... Hesha will still get rushed and smashed though.
Pc.
LSJ
>
> >> I've always played that they'd hunt at +1 stealth. +1 stealth (default) -
> >1
> >> stealth (Strained Vitae Supply) + 1 (special ability) = +1 stealth. But
> >your
> >> quote regarding affecting the default stealth has given me some second
> >> thoughts.
> >
> >SVS doesn't give -1, BTW, it merely cancels the normal +1.
> >(For cases like Festivo - the Sabbat won't be hunting at -1 stealth, just at
> >0).
>
> Huh? Under an SVS and Festivo, wouldn't a Sabbat vampire hunt at -1 stealth?
> The Sabbat vampire wouldn't get the default +1 stealth due to SVS, and Festivo
> causes him to "get -1 stealth when attempting to hunt." So wouldn't it all be
> at -1 stealth?
Right. Sorry, I was thinking Festivo just removed the "normal +1 stealth".
Should've used Igo as the example instead.
>
> Also:
>
> Normally:
> Igo hunts at 0-stealth (0=0)
> Le Dinh Tho hunts at 0-stealth (1-1=0)
>
> Under a SVS:
> Igo hunts at 0-stealth (0=0)
> Le Dinh Tho hunts at -1 stealth (0-1=-1)
>
> Right?
Right.
LSJ
> >It is not.
> >One is an action allowed by a card in play. The other is not.
> >For instance, a vampire can "leave torpor" all he likes (Day Oping each
> >one, for example), but can "Rapid Heal" only once.
>
> But didn't the new NRA explicitly say "with no restrictions on, for example,
> hunting." Kyoko is hunting but she apparently *does* have a restriction. Isn't
> that a bit contradictory?
No.
See the same message cited in the previous reply:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D2C1F73.503D5894%40white-wolf.com
> >> #4. Since this is not a normal hunt action, if Kyoko hunts while a Strained
> >> Vitae Supply is in play, her hunt action is still at +1 stealth, right?
> >(since
> >> it's not a "normal +1 stealth")
> >
> >No. She "normally" gets +1 stealth when hunting, so SVS affects that.
>
> So there is a difference between a vampire who "hunts at +2 stealth" and one
> who "gets a +1 stealth when hunting." While normally they would both hunt at +2
> stealth, under a SVS, the first would hunt at 0-stealth while the other would
> hunt at +1 stealth?
Sure.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Brian
> >feeding razor on him and week of nightmare in to play attempts a hunt action
> >: What happens then ??
>
> He steals 1 blood from another Ravnos at 1 stealth.
>
> Pertinent card text of Week of Nightmares.
>
> "Any ready Ravnos may hunt by stealing a blood from any other Ravnos
> as a +1 stealth (D) action. "
...and if his hunt action is successful, he gains an additional blood
(Hesha's card text) and gains an additional blood (Aaron's FR card
text), no?
Also, he has an additional +1 stealth on a hunt action.
I think Week of Nightmares:
--Prevents Ravnos from hunting as normal
--Allows Ravnos to hunt by stealing a blood from another Ravnos
just as Legacy of Caine:
--Prevents the vampire from hunting as normal
--Allows the vampire to hunt by stealing a blood from another vampire.
If so, it seems Hesha (if empty) is prevented twice from hunting, but
may choose to hunt as a +1 stealth D action from another Ravnos or
from another vampire.
I would say Hesha could attempt a (total starting) +2 stealth action
to steal 1 blood and gain an additional 2.
However, since you don't get "extra" damage with a strike that doesn't
deal damage, can you gain "additional" blood an an action that doesn't
generate any blood?
Anyway, I hope I've opened it up a little.
-- Brian
Xian
> But really. My 11th grade English teacher did tell me one time that I lacked
> common sense...
Just ONCE?!?!?!
:P
Xian
sensical, but not common
Halcyan 2
>lacked
>> common sense...
>
>Just ONCE?!?!?!
>
>:P
Yeah, but it was really mean, like in front of the whole class or something! I
think it like psychologically scarred me or something!
It was really kind of lame, because this class (and a few others) would always
have these little "secret homework assignments." For example, despite the fact
that I paid attention during class, there would still be all sorts of homework
assignments that EVERYONE ELSE knew about but that I somehow managed to miss!
That's when the little voice in my yell starting screaming CONSPIRACY!
But honestly, I'd just end up on a completely different wavelength than
everyone else. It's like one of those cases where you get an essay question and
interpret it in a completely different (yet still valid) way. Like in Miss
Congeniality, when someone was asked to "describe their perfect date" and ended
up talking about how April 15th (or whatever) was perfect because it wasn't too
cold and wasn't too hot, etc.. And even though your answer is a valid one,
everyone still looks at you real strange.
Then again, there was (and still is) the problem that I take things too
realistically and seriously. I have a hard time telling when people are joking
(or just being mean) and others have a hard time telling when I'm joking (or
just being mean). As I said, different wavelengths...
Halcyan 2
scarred for life ='(
The Lasombra
>> >hesha at 7 capacity, impersonated Ravnos, with a legacy of caine, Aaron
>> >feeding razor on him and week of nightmare in to play attempts a hunt action
>> >: What happens then ??
>I think Week of Nightmares:
>--Prevents Ravnos from hunting as normal
>--Allows Ravnos to hunt by stealing a blood from another Ravnos
>just as Legacy of Caine:
>--Prevents the vampire from hunting as normal
>--Allows the vampire to hunt by stealing a blood from another vampire.
Replaces the normal hunt action with a steal blood from another Ravnos
action. No amount modifiers (Hesha, Aaron's Feeding Razor, Hungry
Coyote, Inbase Discotek) will work on a steal blood action.
LSJ 2001-02-05
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=95muj7%24bcc%241%40nnrp1.deja.com
LSJ 2001-08-08
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B71E1E5.5106F3D9%40white-wolf.com
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
reyda
"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d4e6a6a...@text.giganews.com...
excellent !!!!
reyda
Brian
> An excellent response, I must say. Thank you, Lasombra.
>
> However, is the action still considered a hunt action?
>
> I can understand that you are now stealing, and not gaining, blood, so
> "gains additional blood" effects should not work. But, should "+1
> stealth on hunt actions" not add +1 stealth on this hunt action?
>
> And, for the record, what happens if Sasha Miklos steals 1 blood from
> Khalil Ravana (via Week of Nightmares), and then Abd al-Rashid plays
> the reaction Foul Blood? How would "gains 1 less blood" affect her
> hunt?
>
> -- Brian
> -or the evil clone thereof-
Come on, someone?
LSJ maybe?
If Week of Nightmares and Legacy of Caine both have text describing a
hunt action, then Hesha gets an extra stealth on it (card text). If
it's not a hunt action, then its text should be changed so as not to
describe it as a hunt action.
And, as I muse above, "gains one additional blood" effects do not
increase the amount stolen. Does Foul Blood decrease the amount
stolen, or even allow the blood to be stolen but the recipient simply
retains 1 less of it?
-- Brian
slipping under the radar
LSJ
>
> evilclon...@aol.com (Brian) wrote in message news:<24e59377.02080...@posting.google.com>...
> > An excellent response, I must say. Thank you, Lasombra.
> >
> > However, is the action still considered a hunt action?
> >
> > I can understand that you are now stealing, and not gaining, blood, so
> > "gains additional blood" effects should not work. But, should "+1
> > stealth on hunt actions" not add +1 stealth on this hunt action?
> >
> > And, for the record, what happens if Sasha Miklos steals 1 blood from
> > Khalil Ravana (via Week of Nightmares), and then Abd al-Rashid plays
> > the reaction Foul Blood? How would "gains 1 less blood" affect her
> > hunt?
> >
> > -- Brian
> > -or the evil clone thereof-
>
> Come on, someone?
>
> LSJ maybe?
As Lasombra said, with complete links to the official rulings,
It [being the WoN hunt action] is still a hunt action (card text).
Modifiers to the amount gained by hunting do not affect the amount
stolen by the special hunt action.
Additionally, +1 stealth on hunt actions will give +1 stealth to
this hunt action.