Returning Player Question re: Mata Hari
Christian
posts regarding Mata Hari and rulings made regarding her within this
group. To be honest, they either didn't seem to fit my question and/or
left me more confused than when I began. So perhaps the group will
indulge me.
All the questions below assume that Mata Hari is in play, ready, and
has no cards or other effects on her.
1) I'm holding a copy of Hospital Food in my hand. I announce that
Mata is mimicking the Anarch sect and I put the card in play. She then
goes to hunt. Now that the card is in play, and neither she nor I are
"playing" it (per her card text) does this mean she can't benefit from
the card's effects?
2) I have Mata Hari and another, non-Anarch vampire in play. I
announce the latter's intention to become an anarch. Can I declare
Mata Hari's sect to be Anarch and reduce the cost of switching from 2
blood to 1 blood?
3) Does her mimicking ability have a duration or a "memory?" If I
declare her to mimic Clan X, and another player immediately plays an
out-of-turn card on her that specifically effects her new, mimicked
clan, does it effect her? (I think the answer to this is no but I
wanted to ask.)
Thanks,
Christian Alipounarian
dog$
Overall, the key three words for Mata Hari's ability is "may play
cards".
> 1) I'm holding a copy of Hospital Food in my hand. I announce that
> Mata is mimicking the Anarch sect and I put the card in play.
Legal.
> She then goes to hunt. Now that the card is in play, and neither she nor I are
> "playing" it (per her card text) does this mean she can't benefit from
> the card's effects?
Correct. By default she is Independent, and thus is not an anarch when
taking the hunt action.
> 2) I have Mata Hari and another, non-Anarch vampire in play. I
> announce the latter's intention to become an anarch. Can I declare
> Mata Hari's sect to be Anarch and reduce the cost of switching from 2
> blood to 1 blood?
>
No. In respect of any other action, her sect is Independent until you
permanently change it to something else.
> 3) Does her mimicking ability have a duration or a "memory?" If I
> declare her to mimic Clan X, and another player immediately plays an
> out-of-turn card on her that specifically effects her new, mimicked
> clan, does it effect her? (I think the answer to this is no but I
> wanted to ask.)
Correct, the answer is no.
She can use her ability to play Justicar Retribution but Giovanni
would not be able to play Venetian Conference in an attempt to block
that political action.
wumpus
On Apr 11, 8:12 pm, Christian <chrisi...@aol.com> wrote:
> Let me preface this with the following: I did indeed look up previous
> posts regarding Mata Hari and rulings made regarding her within this
> group. To be honest, they either didn't seem to fit my question and/or
> left me more confused than when I began. So perhaps the group will
> indulge me.
>
> All the questions below assume that Mata Hari is in play, ready, and
> has no cards or other effects on her.
>
> 1) I'm holding a copy of Hospital Food in my hand. I announce that
> Mata is mimicking the Anarch sect and I put the card in play. She then
> goes to hunt. Now that the card is in play, and neither she nor I are
> "playing" it (per her card text) does this mean she can't benefit from
> the card's effects?
For reference, here's the text of Mata's special:
You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she
were of that required sect and/or clan.
Note that 'Anarch' is not a sect:
10.5. Anarchs
Anarch is not a sect itself, just a special attribute that some
Independent vampires can have.
Thus Mata cannot play Hospital Food (unless she has actually 'gone
anarch' in some way).
> 2) I have Mata Hari and another, non-Anarch vampire in play. I
> announce the latter's intention to become an anarch. Can I declare
> Mata Hari's sect to be Anarch and reduce the cost of switching from 2
> blood to 1 blood?
As above, no. And even if Anarch were a sect, it would be neither you
nor her who was playing the card; in fact, if using the default
action, there is no one playing a card.
> 3) Does her mimicking ability have a duration or a "memory?" If I
> declare her to mimic Clan X, and another player immediately plays an
> out-of-turn card on her that specifically effects her new, mimicked
> clan, does it effect her? (I think the answer to this is no but I
> wanted to ask.)
This one is trickier; I believe that while she plays cards 'as if' she
is only 'as if' for the purpose of playing the cards. So no.
Hope that helps,
Alex
LSJ
> On Apr 11, 8:12 pm, Christian <chrisi...@aol.com> wrote:
>> All the questions below assume that Mata Hari is in play, ready, and
>> has no cards or other effects on her.
>>
>> 1) I'm holding a copy of Hospital Food in my hand. I announce that
>> Mata is mimicking the Anarch sect and I put the card in play. She then
>> goes to hunt. Now that the card is in play, and neither she nor I are
>> "playing" it (per her card text) does this mean she can't benefit from
>> the card's effects?
>
> For reference, here's the text of Mata's special:
>
> You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she
> were of that required sect and/or clan.
>
> Note that 'Anarch' is not a sect:
> anarch' in some way).
Correct. Mata cannot mimic "anarch". Text such as Grey Thorne's text is needed
to mimic "anarch".
>> 2) I have Mata Hari and another, non-Anarch vampire in play. I
>> announce the latter's intention to become an anarch. Can I declare
>> Mata Hari's sect to be Anarch and reduce the cost of switching from 2
>> blood to 1 blood?
>
> As above, no. And even if Anarch were a sect, it would be neither you
> nor her who was playing the card; in fact, if using the default
> action, there is no one playing a card.
Correct.
>> 3) Does her mimicking ability have a duration or a "memory?" If I
>> declare her to mimic Clan X, and another player immediately plays an
>> out-of-turn card on her that specifically effects her new, mimicked
>> clan, does it effect her? (I think the answer to this is no but I
>> wanted to ask.)
>
> This one is trickier; I believe that while she plays cards 'as if' she
> is only 'as if' for the purpose of playing the cards. So no.
Correct. She never "becomes" the clan/sect she is mimicking. She just plays the
card as that clan/sect. So the card she plays as that clan/sect sees her as that
clan/sect (for its resolution), and that's all.
Christian
*snip*
OK. Thanks very much for the answers and my apologies for the
confusion regarding Anarchs not being a sect.
*looks up Sects and sees them defined as Cam, Sab, or Laibon in VTES
Rulebook 10.0 - 10.3*
So you can have a vampire that's Anarch... Black Hand... and
Camarilla, since only the latter is an actual sect? That's... really
weird if that's the case. o_O
Johann von Doom
> So you can have a vampire that's Anarch... Black Hand... and
> Camarilla, since only the latter is an actual sect? That's... really
> weird if that's the case. o_O
No. Re-read the rule posted above about anarchs. They're always
independent.
You could have a vampire who is Black Hand and anarch, or Black Hand
and Camarilla, as being Black Hand isn't necessarily tied to being
Sabbat. (Though be careful with that, as some cards such as Blooding
do link Black Hand-ness with Sabbat-ness.)
John Eno
James Coupe
>*looks up Sects and sees them defined as Cam, Sab, or Laibon in VTES
>Rulebook 10.0 - 10.3*
Independent is also a sect, just the same as those.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Teeka
> Christian <chrisi...@aol.com> wrote:
> >*looks up Sects and sees them defined as Cam, Sab, or Laibon in VTES
> >Rulebook 10.0 - 10.3*
>
> Independent is also a sect, just the same as those.
>
> --
Just for extra clarification, Christian, since I think you're not
grasping the sect/trait thing entirely:
- there are 4 sects: Camarilla, Sabbat, Laibon, Independent.
- the Anarchs trait is 'tied' to being Independent. So:
- if vampire becomes Anarch, he/she automatically becomes (or stays)
Independent.
- if an Anarch changes sect to Cam.,Sab., or Laibon, he/she
automatically stops being Anarch.
As said, this is different from Black Hand, which is not 'tied' to
Sabbat even though BH members usually start out Sabbat. But it is the
same for titles (except the "has x votes" ones), which are 'tied' to
an appropriate sect.
Christian
> Just for extra clarification, Christian, since I think you're not
> grasping the sect/trait thing entirely:
*snip*
You are correct, I wasn't. Thanks for the clarification. I do think
it's odd that while Anarchs must be Indy, Black Hand need not be
Sabbat. It's a lot to learn since I haven't played in tournaments
largely since Sabbat War. o_O
Blooded Sand
Yeah well, Yazid the Serpah Justicar is cute....
Christian
> Yeah well, Yazid the Serpah Justicar is cute....
Seraph... Justicar.
I think my brain just esspodeded.
Blooded Sand
Wait till you see the Seraph Magaji. Thats hilarious.....
Johann von Doom
> You are correct, I wasn't. Thanks for the clarification. I do think
> it's odd that while Anarchs must be Indy, Black Hand need not be
> Sabbat. It's a lot to learn since I haven't played in tournaments
> largely since Sabbat War. o_O
The good news is that you're unlikely to see anyone playing a non-
Sabbat Black Hand deck in a tournament. :)
John Eno
the HZA
Let's organize another PA-NJ tournamapalooza. : )
--Matt Heslin