(LSJ) Impulse in the untap phase
floppyzedolfin
Anarch Revolt is in play - let's say A controls it.
It is A's untap phase, and A doesn't control a ready Anarch.
A is on 1 pool.
D has a Burn Option card in his hand.
* Can A let go the impulse, and wait for D to use the burn option (and
maybe replace with a Life Boon), thus postponing the Anarch Revolt
pool loss?
I think A can't.
* Can A do so, if the Anarch Revolt is controlled by E?
Now, let's say C controls Owain Evans. A has a Vessel on an empty
vampire.
Anarch Revolt is controlled by E.
* Can A's vampire with a Vessel gain 1 blood from Owain, and then use
the Vessel, before losing 1 to Anarch Revolt ?
* B controls the Anarch Revolt. Does the Impulse reach C ?
[The reason I'm asking this is that it looks very similar to Weather
Control, which - as it seems to me - knows a different handling]
Thanks.
~ ~
Anarch Revolt
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put this card in play. A Methuselah who does not control a ready
anarch burns 1 pool during his or her untap phase. Any vampire can
call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action.
Owain Evans, The Wanderer
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Ventrue antitribu
Group: 3
Capacity: 8
Discipline: cel pre AUS DOM FOR
Sabbat: During any Methuselah's untap phase, if Owain is ready, you
may move a blood from the blood bank to a vampire that Methuselah
controls.
Vessel
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master: trifle.
Put this card on a vampire, and you may burn a Blood Doll in play (if
any). During this vampire's controller's untap phase, he or she may
move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her
pool to this vampire.
LSJ
> Hi,
>
> Anarch Revolt is in play - let's say A controls it.
> It is A's untap phase, and A doesn't control a ready Anarch.
> A is on 1 pool.
>
> D has a Burn Option card in his hand.
>
> * Can A let go the impulse, and wait for D to use the burn option (and
> maybe replace with a Life Boon), thus postponing the Anarch Revolt
> pool loss?
>
> I think A can't.
"Can A pass"?
No, as you say.
Passing is equivalent to saying "I'm done with untap effects (but may
revisit that decision if someone else does something)"
> * Can A do so, if the Anarch Revolt is controlled by E?
No.
> Now, let's say C controls Owain Evans. A has a Vessel on an empty
> vampire.
> Anarch Revolt is controlled by E.
> * Can A's vampire with a Vessel gain 1 blood from Owain, and then use
> the Vessel, before losing 1 to Anarch Revolt ?
No, since C never gets the opportunity to move 1 blood from Owain.
> * B controls the Anarch Revolt. Does the Impulse reach C ?
When A and B pass, of course.
>
> [The reason I'm asking this is that it looks very similar to Weather
> Control, which - as it seems to me - knows a different handling]
It knows the same handling.
Wedge
> > Now, let's say C controls Owain Evans. A has a Vessel on an empty
> > vampire.
> > Anarch Revolt is controlled by E.
> > * Can A's vampire with a Vessel gain 1 blood from Owain, and then use
> > the Vessel, before losing 1 to Anarch Revolt ?
>
> No, since C never gets the opportunity to move 1 blood from Owain.
>
> > * B controls the Anarch Revolt. Does the Impulse reach C ?
>
> When A and B pass, of course.
>
>
>
> > [The reason I'm asking this is that it looks very similar to Weather
> > Control, which - as it seems to me - knows a different handling]
>
> It knows the same handling.
If New Inquisition is in play and B controlled Owain, you could target
B w/ NI creating a damage resolution phase, thereby allowing B to use
effects in the untap phase like Owains' special before B resolves
damage.
Brum
Why do you keep the concept of impulse out of the rulebook in a clear
way.
It would simplify things in so many levels.
Is there a good reason not to use it? What is it?
TB
henrik
It's in the rulebook.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/
1.6.1.5
Sequencing. If two or more players want to play a card or effect, the
acting Methuselah plays first. At every stage, the acting player
always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after
playing one effect, she may play another and another. Once she is
finished, the opportunity passes to the defending Methuselah (in the
cases of directed actions and combat), then to the rest of the
Methuselahs in clockwise order from the acting Methuselah. Note that
if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again
gets the opportunity to play the next effect.
Brum
Hence the "in a clear way" and by that I mean in a literal way. Not
just in this part, but throughout the text.
Blooded Sand
I agree with brum here, the rulebook here is somewhat obtuse and hard
to understand easily. The aim might be to make this easier to grasp
for new players so as to facilitate an easier and faster uptake of the
*ahem* complex rules of VtES.
henrik
I'd say that the part about sequencing is pretty clear. Haven't
checked if/how correct sequencing is used in the rulebook examples
though.
But yeah, overall the rulebook could probably use some kind of
overhaul.
LSJ
The rulebook section quoted seems pretty clear.
Suggested improved wording welcomed.
Brum
I agree that with a fair amount of time and understanding of the
english language it is easy to grasp the major aspects of the rules.
We all wish for the game to grow and more people come to come in. Some
of those newcomers don't have a grasp of the english language to see
what for you is obvious.
Sure, one must know enough English to understand the game and play it,
but between Oxford graduate and totally illiterate in English, there
are many shades of gray.
And we all have had to explain rules or rulings to people how just
didn't get it at 1st or 2nd try and still though afterwords that they
were just to ominous to try to understand. I don't like my players to
do that.
I like them to understand and don't talk of such things "just
because".
I'll illustrate with a rough, 5 minute sketch example (probably full
of flaws, but bear with me):
Somewhere in the beginning of the rule book:
"Vampire is a dynamic multilayer game where players interact, bla,
bla, bla.
(...)
<Explain here that the game is played in turns where the player
playing is the acting methuselah>
(...)
<Explain here that the player holding impulse gets to play cards or
declare effects according to the state or phase the game is in>
(...)
<Explain here that once the player holding impulse finished playing
cards or declaring effects, he gives impulse to another player and
explain how impulse moves from player to player>
Throughout the text on each specific part, use the impulse terminology
introduced in the beginning in a familiar way, like in these examples:
"Bill announces that Lucinde is hunting and taps Lucinde. The action
is undirected and has +1 stealth. Impulse goes to his Prey that
declares is not blocking or playing effects. Then impulse goes to
Bill's Predator, Leoben. Leoben plays a reaction that gives +1
intercept to one of his untapped minions, Banjoko. Leoban gives
impulse away and it goes to the rest of the methuselahs in clockwise
order until it reaches Bill again. All players give impulse away
without playing cards or effects, Banjoko is tapped and Lucinde starts
combat with him".
"Laura announces Lodin is bleeding Baltar and gives impulse away.
Baltar passes impulse and all other methulahs also passe it clockwise
until Laura has impulse again. She plays a Bonding (an action modifier
that adds 1 to the bleed).
She passes impulse and so do all the other players, in order.
Baltar is bled for 2 pool."
Although this might introduce a bit more text to the rulebook, it
would make it easier for people to understand stuff like Anneke, KRCG
on other players's minions, Draba when you're not acting or being
target, master out of turn timing, etc.
This might prove to bring more problems than solutions, but I find the
discussion interesting.
Cheers,
Tiago
James Coupe
>The rulebook section quoted seems pretty clear.
>
>Suggested improved wording welcomed.
It seems fine for the printed rulebook, given the obvious space
constraints - and that any extra text may well require removing text
from a printed booklet.
For the online rulebook, however, it might be nice to add a few more
examples for important or difficult concepts. A small amount of
HTML+CSS could highlight the bits that aren't in the printed rulebook -
a shaded background, a dotted line border, or whatever.
Items that might be worth including a little more information on
include:
- the impulse/sequencing
- the referendum (which is an exception to the ordinary impulse)
- the Imbued rules (so you can have one document including them,
alongside the ordinary rules).
--
James Coupe
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