[LSJ] Prisci Subreferendum
Jozxyqk
"Tap to cancel the votes of any vampire during the referendum of a political
action."
Some confusion ensued, since there is some perceived ambiguity about the
Prisci Subreferendum. Some players thought that the Prisci Subreferendum
votes may only be affected explicitly, since we remembered rulings as such.
But in the end, the majority ruling was that Demonstration *can* affect a
Priscus's votes.
I found confirmation of this from 2001. Assuming nothing has changed,
Demonstration can cancel the votes of a Priscus:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/5ab156b8b0b5640f
Can we please have a *definitive* ruling on what affects Prisci votes and
what does not?
As far as I can tell, it all boils down to these 3 general rules:
1) Effects which "cancel" a vampire's votes in a referendum may cancel the
votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum (i.e. Demonstration).
2) Multipliers affect the votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum
(i.e. if I control Orlando Oriundus and Shawnda Dorritt, Shawnda will have
2 votes in the Prisci Subreferendum).
3) Effects which numerically alter a vampire's votes ("gain 2 votes",
"get -1 vote", etc) do NOT affect Priscus votes, except where explicitly
stated (i.e. Free States Rant affects them due to card text, but Rastacourere
and Condemnation Mute do not).
Can you please confirm/deny/expand upon these points, so there is a specific
rule that can be referenced?
Thanks.
LSJ
> Last night, a player tapped Demonstration to cancel the votes of a Priscus.
>
> "Tap to cancel the votes of any vampire during the referendum of a political
> action."
>
> Some confusion ensued, since there is some perceived ambiguity about the
> Prisci Subreferendum. Some players thought that the Prisci Subreferendum
> votes may only be affected explicitly, since we remembered rulings as such.
> But in the end, the majority ruling was that Demonstration *can* affect a
> Priscus's votes.
>
> I found confirmation of this from 2001. Assuming nothing has changed,
> Demonstration can cancel the votes of a Priscus:
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/5ab156b8b0b5640f
Correct.
> Can we please have a *definitive* ruling on what affects Prisci votes and
> what does not?
Sure.
> As far as I can tell, it all boils down to these 3 general rules:
>
> 1) Effects which "cancel" a vampire's votes in a referendum may cancel the
> votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum (i.e. Demonstration).
Yes, setting the vampire's disposition affects both his main- and sub-
referendum votes, by the rule that all votes from a single source must be cast
in agreement. (That is, each source can be viewed as having an "aligment": for,
against, or neutral. All votes from the source are cast (or withheld) according
to that alignment.)
> 2) Multipliers affect the votes of a vampire in the Prisci Subreferendum
> (i.e. if I control Orlando Oriundus and Shawnda Dorritt, Shawnda will have
> 2 votes in the Prisci Subreferendum).
No. Multipliers and all other effects which manipulate the number of votes only
affect the votes they say they do. (With "vote" meaning "vote in the main
referendum", as per the standard rule.)
> 3) Effects which numerically alter a vampire's votes ("gain 2 votes",
> "get -1 vote", etc) do NOT affect Priscus votes, except where explicitly
> stated (i.e. Free States Rant affects them due to card text, but Rastacourere
> and Condemnation Mute do not).
Correct. This rule applies as written to multipliers (which numerically alter a
vampire's votes).
> Can you please confirm/deny/expand upon these points, so there is a specific
> rule that can be referenced?
Sure, but this just reiterates the specific rule pair that can be referenced as
it has been given before.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f5f3092799ed765c
And, to reinforce #3's jurisdiction over multipliers:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5033b7ff2a9c261
JJeff
Political Struggle on a Priscus member get 1 vote in the Prisci Sub-
ref or no vote at all?
LSJ
Zero votes, the number of main-referendum votes the Priscus has.