Tremere Antitribu Banish Nergal from New York City!
echia...@yahoo.com
gathered together at Neutral Ground to play a Return of Nergal
storyline tournament run by Nick Watkins. After a grueling day of
competition, in a surprising twist of events, Nergal was defeated and
the city was saved by a really really pathetic Tremere Antitribu deck.
Okay, let me give it to you straight up. The Tremere Antitribu deck I
used was extraordinarily sad. It's basically an equipment/wall deck
that is designed with anti-Nergal strategies in the hope that it can
survive an assault by Nergal. I originally designed it for a different
Return of Nergal event where I knew there were going to be few enough
players that I'd almost certainly be in the finals by default. It ended
up falling flat on its face disastrously in that event. Well, I didn't
have the time to build another deck and I didn't have most of my cards
in NY so I had to make do with this deck for the NYC event.
[Round 1]
Nick Watkins (!Toreador Palla Grande/Embrace) -->
Adam (Malkavian intercept with guest star Tariq) -->
Me (!Tremere equipment/wall) -->
Shane Strait (Gangrel Animalism intercept wall)
This round was a terrible matchup for both Nick and me. We both have
crap stealth and had intercept decks on both sides. Since my deck has
almost nil forward pressure, Nick had to bear the brunt of Shane's
deck. For the life of me, I couldn't get out any permanents because I
kept getting blocked by Shane's Gangrel who were tooled up with Raven
Spies and Murder of Crows and I couldn't deal with his Animalism combat
either. Nick's first card in play was an Anarch Troublemaker which
instantly put Adam on the defensive. In fact, Adam was so worried about
Palla Grande bleed that he contributed greatly to Nick's ousting.
Adam's fate was sealed in a climactic battle between Tariq and a tooled
up Lord Ashton. Tariq was left defenseless when his Disguised
Flamethower was carried away by a horde of puppies. After that, it was
fairly elementary for Shane to sweep the rest of the table. End result:
0 VP's for me and confirmation that my deck really does suck.
Shane: 4 VP's and 1 GW
LVP Card: Magic of the Smith. Despite 7 copies of the damn card in my
deck, I couldn't draw into any until the end of the game. Since my deck
is heavily centered about equipping at +3 stealth and grabbing a Pier
13 early, the dearth of Magics was my death knell.
[Round 2]
Me (!Tremere equipment/wall) -->
Peter Kapsilis (Baali Group 4 toolbox bleed) -->
Nick Watkins (!Toreador Palla Grande/Embrace) -->
Adnan (Ventrue Group 2/3 bleed/vote) -->
??? (!Tremere intercept/bleed)
Nick got the short end of the stick as my grandprey again, since I
can't provide much forward pressure. Peter quickly Tombs of Ramses out
Azaneal, Nick brings out Anarch Troublemaker and Carter. Carter
attempts to create an Embrace, but Azaneal intercepts with Sense the
Sin. Afterward, Peter plays an Erciyes Fragment, uses it on the
Embrace, and has Azaneal play it (costing him one less blood no less!)
in order to create a 1-cap, non-Infernal Baali. (Later on, he even
manages to give the Embrace the Textbook Damnation). Adnan brings out
Victorine Lafourcade, followed shortly by Nakova. Yes, Nakova. I was
amazed to see her as well. My first turn I played Rumor Mill and second
turn I had Creepshow Casino (yes! stealth!). I openly expressed my hope
that my predator was not playing Arika. When my predator brought out
Selena I had mixed feelings (I surely did not expect to see another
Tremere Anti deck!). At least he wasn't playing Ventrue but I was
initially concerned about contestation issues. But amazingly enough, we
didn't contest at all. He eventually had Selena, Yasmin, Kurt Strauss,
and Thelonius while I had Ian Forestal, Reverend Blackwood, Brooke, and
Blythe. Adnan got out Victorine, Nakova, Alan Sovereign (Basic), and
Muaziz (yes, somehow she managed to join up with the Ventrue). With
little pressure from his predator, Peter brought out Azaneal, Petaniqua
(Advanced), and Elihu, in addition to the Embrace.
Nick had problems with stealthed Sense the Sin bleeds for 3. And there
was little I could do to help him with that. Petaniqua also got a
Contagion, which caused problems for most of the table. Seeing as how
the Erciyes Fragment was already on the table, I played Infernal Pact
on Reverend Blackwood so he could play superior DAI. I eventually stole
the Erciyes Fragment. I was mainly interested in using my prey's Wakes
because my predator was bleeding aggressively with Governs,
Conditionings, and even some Stealth Ritus. Peter was worried that I
would use his own Sense the Sins against him (using Reverend Blackwood)
but he allowed me to keep the Fragment on condition that I didn't use
any Sense the Sins to bleed him. I tooled up the Reverend with a Sport
Bike and Flak Jacket, and in a dangerous gambit, brought myself down to
2 pool to give him an Ivory Bow as well. I did have Ian Forestal with
Palatial Estate and a Blood Doll, but with Contagion in play (during
the untap phase), I couldn't afford to lose a single pool. When Nick
was at 3 pool, he made a desperate lunge. Adnan was at 8 pool and
tapped out. Nick played Palla Grande and had 4 minions. Adnan did have
a Wake and a Second however so Nick decided not to make things easy for
Peter to sweep. Nick was ousted and Adnan was soon brought down to 5.
Thelonius sent Ian and himself to torpor with a Burst of Sunlight. Ian
was back in action soon however, while Thelonius lingered in torpor.
Seeing as how I lacked forward pressure as well as stealth, Peter
brought himself down to 5 pool. Peter was tapped out but I knew he
probably had Wakes. I had 4 minions and the Fragment but had agreed to
not use a Sense the Sin for bleed. If Peter had another turn, he would
almost certainly oust Adnan. My only chance was to somehow draw into
one of the 4 Governs in my deck. My predator bled me with Kurt, I waked
and blocked with the Reverend. I manuevered to long with a Movement of
the Mind and torped Kurt with the Ivory Bow. Apparently my predator had
a Blood Fury and the manuever foiled his plans. He attempted to rescue
Kurt with Selena and I waked and blocked with Kurt again. I played
another Movement of the Mind and sent Selena to torpor as well. Not
only did I manage to draw into a Govern, but now my predator was left
with a single minion, giving me more room to breath. At the end of his
turn, I tapped Erciyes for an Obfuscate stealth card. I needed to get 2
bleeds in for one, and then Govern bleed in order to oust my prey.
Blythe bled for 1, which Peter took since she lacked Dominate. Brooke
bled but was blocked by Azaneal with a Wake (He was worried about
getting bled by anyone with Dominate). I was okay with losing Brooke
but instead, Azaneal played Fear of the Void Below to set range to
long. He didn't know it at the time, but Peter had a 1 in 7 chance of
foiling me if he managed to discard my Govern. Fortunately however, he
merely chose a Sport Bike. Reverend Blackwood bled for one, Peter
played a Wake, but I actually managed to put the good Reverend's
Obfuscate to good use by using the Fragment's stealth card. Peter
didn't have a Sense the Sin and took the bleed for 1, leaving him at 3.
I followed up with Ian bleeding for 3 with the Govern. Peter waked
again but I tapped the Fragment for one final Obfuscate stealth card to
get the oust.
I was tapped out but didn't want my new prey, Adnan, to just wall up. I
told him that if he tapped out trying to diablerize my predator's (who
was his prey) minions, then I wouldn't perform any (D) actions against
him next turn. Yasmin the Black was untapped, and combined with a
Zillah's Tears and a Wake mananaged to foil 3 attempts (though the 3rd
sent her to torpor). Victorine managed to diablerize Selena (with 2
blood) however. During my predator's turn, he Blood Doll'ed up to Kurt
who rescued himself. My turn, I honored my deal and didn't do much. I
did make a mistake by having Ian equip with an IR Goggles. Almost
immediately I remembered he was the only minion I had with AUS who
could Eagle Sight block if needed. Now it was Adnan's turn. Muaziz
called KRC at +2 stealth, my predator's pool went from 9 to 6.
Victorine called a Con Ag. The Reverend attempted to block, but
Victorine used Daring the Dawn, sending herself to torpor but reducing
my predator's pool to 4. Alan bled and I cursed myself for tapping Ian.
I was worried about a bleed mod. Since Nakova has crap disciplines, I
knew it was important to stop Alan (Adnan had managed to cycle into a
Conditioning by then). I saw my predator was looking at his hand and
was hesitating. I guessed that he had a Wake but didn't want to risk
sending empty Kurt to torpor. I offered him a deal that if he blocked
the action and ended up in torpor, I would rescue him. Kurt blocked and
got sent to torpor. Nakova, unable to bleed for 4, tried to rescue
Victorine. The Reverend waked and blocked. Nakova played a Dawn Op, but
I torped her with the Ivory Bow + Rotschreck. Adnan was at 5 and tapped
out. I had a Govern in my hand and an untapped Erciyes. I had
originally planned to use the Erciyes for 2 Governs and oust him with
bleeds. But since Victorine and Nakova were now in torpor, I actually
had vote lock with the Reverend and the Edge. At the end of my
predator's turn, I grabbed a KRC from my prey. I called the KRC, tapped
the Erciyes Fragment for Con Ag, and then ousted my prey. My predator
was now at 1 pool, though Yasmin had managed to rescue herself. I did
indeed rescue Kurt (as I said I would do) before ousting him.
Peter: 1 VP
Me: 4 VP's + 1 GW
Somehow my crappy deck managed to win a table!
MVP Card: Erciyes Fragment. Even though I didn't actually use it for
any DAI cards, the Fragment was the key to my win. I used Peter's own
Obfuscate cards to oust him, and Adnan's own political actions to oust
him.
[Finals]
1st seed was Shane Strait (Gangrel Animalism intercept wall) with 1 GW
+ 5 VP's
2nd seed was Cory (Toreador Antitribu vote) with 1 GW + 5 VP's
3rd seed was me (Tremere Antitribu equipment/wall) with 1 GW + 4 VP's
4th and 5th seeds were Rob Williams (Giovanni bleed + Hordes) and ???
(Brujah deck centered on Gwendolyn).
Shane, devoted Gangrel groupie that he is, declined to play Nergal,
which Cory eagerly offered to play. Final game was:
Rob Williams (Giovanni bleed + Hordes) -->
??? (Brujah deck centered on Gwendolyn) -->
Me (Tremere Antitribu equipment/wall) -->
Shane Strait (Gangrel Animalism intercept wall) -->
Cory (NERGAL!)
I had seen Shambling Hordes in Rob's deck and thought that was the main
theme. Thus I would rather be the predator and not have to be rushed
all the time. (It turns out that Rob's deck was mainly a power bleed
deck, with a few Hordes as a backup strategy. I was confused by his
deck for much of the game, but it makes more sense in hindsight with
this revelation). Shane decided to be my prey, since he knew my deck
does squat in terms of forward pressure.
My first turn I played Kingston Penitentiary, Ontario, which proved to
be a key card in this game. Cory used it A LOT in order to keep blood
on Nergal. Shane brought out Bobby Lemon, Cory got out Nergal. Rob got
Andreas Giovanni, ??? got out Jaroslav, and I got out Ladislas Toth and
Brooke. Nergal's first action was to get a Rutor's Hand, Freak Drive,
and then Concordance. This was a dire omen for things to come. Shane
recruited Carlton Van Wyk (which I considered blocking but decided I
would rather maintain a low profile) and transferred out Danielle
Diron. I had Ladislas Magic of the Smith for a Pier 13 and he started
getting tooled up. ??? had problems for much of the game because he
couldn't get out Gwendolyn until near the end and I guess his deck is
heavily centered on her.
Shane was the major proponent of the anti-Nergal alliance. He was
extremely vocal about it. ??? was also very anti-Nergal. Both of these
players had combat decks which couldn't deal with Nergal's combat. For
most of the game, Shane had bragging rights for dealing the most
unprevented damage (2) to Nergal. Rob was rather quiet but was willing
to join the anti-coalition effort. I was the primary holdout. You see,
out of all the players, my deck was the only one that was specifically
built to be anti-Nergal and could possibly withstand such an assault. I
built the deck with the intention of allying with Nergal, getting all
of the other normal players ousted, and then surviving to time in order
to defeat Nergal. Hence, it was not necessarily in my best interests to
see Nergal dead. I reluctantly did agree to join the anti-Nergal
coalition however.
Cory had a ball with the Nergal deck but I think the major flaw he made
was in spreading out his damage to everyone instead of focusing on one
person at a time. He played Greater Haven on my Ladislas, bled ??? for
3, Condemnation: Mute on Rob's Pocthli, and then attempted to Bum's
Rush Shane's Carlton. The rush was blocked but the blocking Gangrel was
quickly sent to torpor. Instead of antagonizing everyone, Cory probably
should have looked for a steadfast ally. Shane and ??? were very
anti-Nergal, so Rob and I would have made the most sensible choices.
Especially since my participation in the coaliation was obviously
reluctant, Cory might have had better luck by cutting a deal with me.
Eventually the situation was:
Rob: Andreas, Pochtli, Carlotta, and an HG
???: Jaroslav, Theo Bell (basic), and Gwendolyn
Me: Ladislas Toth (w/ Pier 13, Rutor's Hand, IR Goggles, Flak Jacket,
and .44 Magnum), Yasmin the Black (with Seal of Veddartha), Richard
Tauber, Brooke with Polaris Coach, Kingston Penitentiary, Heidelberg
Castle, and PB: Montreal
Shane: Carlton Van Wyk, Bobby Lemon (with Raven Spy), Danielle Diron,
Horrock, and Dr. Allan Woodstock.
Cory: Nergal was a bunch of stuff, Great Beast, and Fragment of Nod
Carlton was eventually killed by a Psychomachia. Shane's Gangrel were
constantly getting beat into torpor. Nergal was focused more on
bleeding out Shane and ??? since they had no access to bleed bounce. I
managed to block several key actions of Nergal (such as Contagion) but
I did get victimized a bit in return.
Interestingly enough, the anti-Nergal alliance actually worked. Though
there were several opportunities for betrayal, everyone pretty much
followed through. We shared Powerbase: Montreal, blocked key actions by
Nergal, consistently bled Nergal, and did a lot of cross-table
rescuing. All in all, while Nergal was around, none of the non-Nergal
players did anything to directly hurt each other.
Cory was taking a lot of bleeds for 1 but eventually he was able to
oust Shane, giving him and me 6 pool. I finally drew into an Erciyes
Fragment and started to use it on Nergal's nifty cards and I also
transferred out Ian Forestal for added fun. The Brujah were able to
beat the Great Beast into torpor (cause it only had AUS OBF PRE), but a
timely Giant's Blood and rescue but him back into action. Eventually,
Nergal was left at 7 pool. Jaroslav bled with Iron Glare which was
Misdirected to me. I Deflected it back and Nergal took it, bringing him
down to 4. I bled for 1 with Richard (no dominate), taking Nergal down
to 3. To spite Nergal, I recruited Carlton Van Wyk (he's back!) and
then I sealed the deal by having Brooke bleed with a Govern when she
had a Polaris Coach with 5 or 6 counters. Courageous little Brooke had
managed to oust Nergal!
By this point, Rob and ??? had a ridiculous amount of pool. I was at
10, had Ladislas with Rutor's Hand and Pier 13. Yasmin with Rutor's
Hand and Seal of Veddartha. Richard Tauber with Rutor's Hand, Ian
Forestal, Brooke with Polaris Coach, and Carlton. Just about all of my
minions also had Blood Dolls. In addition, I had 3 IR Goggles, 2 Flak
Jackets, a Sport Bike, and a .44 Magnum which I could shuffle around
with Heidelburg. All I needed to do was sit there and survive. Rob
could not bleed out ??? and ??? couldn't get through me. So even though
we had around 10 minutes, we decided to call it. Somehow, my really
crappy Tremere Anti deck had actually managed to win!
Me: 2.5 VP's
Rob: 1.5 VP's
???: 1.5 VP's
Cory: 1 VP
Shane: 0 VP
MVP Card: Kingston Penitentiary, Ontario. This card was ridiculously
good throughout the game, even more since I got it first turn. Nergal
must have given me at least half a dozen pool and at one point, both my
predator and prey used it to keep me out of Nergal's ousting reach. All
in all, in addition to all of the blood it provided to my minions, the
Penitentiary paid for itself at least twice! At one point, my prey was
annoyed that Nergal was using it so much. I sheepishly suggested that
he could deny Nergal the chance of using it by using it himself! ;)
One of the more amusing moments of the game was when when Cory gave me
a pool with the Penitentiary but also placed a Greater Haven on
Ladislas. His quote was along the lines of "Nergal giveth with one hand
and taketh with the other."
Special thanks to Nick for running the event.
It's still kinda disturbing that my deck actually managed to win. Trust
me, it really really is a terribly bad deck. I'm almost embarassed to
admit just how atrocious it is. Now that I'm done with my Nergal
events, I can *finally* take the darn thing apart! Stoooopid equipment
deck!
Signing out,
Eric Chiang
Pat
news:1133822289....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> On Sunday, December 4th, 2005, 14 players from the New York area
> gathered together at Neutral Ground to play a Return of Nergal
> storyline tournament run by Nick Watkins. After a grueling day of
> competition, in a surprising twist of events, Nergal was defeated and
> the city was saved by a really really pathetic Tremere Antitribu deck.
>
>
Nice write-up, Eric!
> Okay, let me give it to you straight up. The Tremere Antitribu deck I
> used was extraordinarily sad. It's basically an equipment/wall deck
> that is designed with anti-Nergal strategies in the hope that it can
> survive an assault by Nergal. I originally designed it for a different
> Return of Nergal event where I knew there were going to be few enough
> players that I'd almost certainly be in the finals by default. It ended
> up falling flat on its face disastrously in that event. Well, I didn't
> have the time to build another deck and I didn't have most of my cards
> in NY so I had to make do with this deck for the NYC event.
>
But didn't you feel dirty for building a specifically anti-Nergal deck?
> MVP Card: Erciyes Fragment. Even though I didn't actually use it for
> any DAI cards, the Fragment was the key to my win. I used Peter's own
> Obfuscate cards to oust him, and Adnan's own political actions to oust
> him.
>
Moral of the story: Never let your pred or prey hang on to the Erciyes
Fragments.
> Nergal's first action was to get a Rutor's Hand, Freak Drive,
> and then Concordance.
Hmm... this is much juicier the other way round, but an early Concordance is
critical for Nergal.
> The Brujah were able to
> beat the Great Beast into torpor (cause it only had AUS OBF PRE), but a
> timely Giant's Blood and rescue but him back into action.
Oh, no... Nergal's Beast definitely wants AUS FOR DAI.
> Somehow, my really
> crappy Tremere Anti deck had actually managed to win!
>
Congrats!
- Pat
Matthew T. Morgan
> [Round 2]
>
>
> Me (!Tremere equipment/wall) -->
> Peter Kapsilis (Baali Group 4 toolbox bleed) -->
> Nick Watkins (!Toreador Palla Grande/Embrace) -->
> Adnan (Ventrue Group 2/3 bleed/vote) -->
> ??? (!Tremere intercept/bleed)
<snip>
> At the end of his
> turn, I tapped Erciyes for an Obfuscate stealth card. I needed to get 2
> bleeds in for one, and then Govern bleed in order to oust my prey.
> Blythe bled for 1, which Peter took since she lacked Dominate. Brooke
> bled but was blocked by Azaneal with a Wake (He was worried about
> getting bled by anyone with Dominate). I was okay with losing Brooke
> but instead, Azaneal played Fear of the Void Below to set range to
> long. He didn't know it at the time, but Peter had a 1 in 7 chance of
> foiling me if he managed to discard my Govern. Fortunately however, he
> merely chose a Sport Bike. Reverend Blackwood bled for one, Peter
> played a Wake, but I actually managed to put the good Reverend's
> Obfuscate to good use by using the Fragment's stealth card. Peter
> didn't have a Sense the Sin and took the bleed for 1, leaving him at 3.
> I followed up with Ian bleeding for 3 with the Govern. Peter waked
> again but I tapped the Fragment for one final Obfuscate stealth card to
> get the oust.
This is really funny. How do you make a deck better? Add stealth and
bleed.
Congrats on the win.
Matt Morgan
crispyfloss
Along the "Let's trash our decks" vein, I put together a "just get me
to the finals" Giovanni deck centered on Pochtli/Carlotta/Krassimir,
using the usual power bleed suspects. I tossed in a 20-cardish Horde
module on the off chance that the table I was at slowed down, so I'd
have something to do without looking like that ass that brought power
bleed to the game.
> [Round 1]
Peter Kapsalis (Baali4 toolboxy bleed) -->
Adnan (Ventrue vote/bleed) -->
Me (Gio bleed + hordes) -->
???? (Gwendolyn Alastor/Anathema) -->
Rod (!Nos milling deck)
Peter gets out Cybele and some 6-cap, and a second-turn Contagion that
made him the most popular girl at the dance. Adnan brought out
Suhailah and Bindusara. ???? brought out Gwendolyn and a big prince.
Rod brought out several mid-cap !Nos, one of whom clan impersonated to
Harbingers and the Slaughterhouses started dropping. I had Andrea,
Gloria, and Carlotta (I believe).
My predator was being pounded by big stealth bleeds from Peter, whom
Rod was exerting no pressure on since he was playing a milling deck. I
brought out a few hordes and got a few bleeds into my prey, but it
looked pretty likely that Peter would wind up sweeping. Adnan was good
enough to admit that he "Only had 3 deflections in his deck" the first
time he was bled, so that didn't help very much. Then he got bled out.
So me and prey made a deal (the best kind!) where we would both rush
Peter (him with his Alastor'd Assault Rifled Brujah and me with my
Hordes) to run down his Majesties, and then split the table. Once he
stopped worrying about me bleeding him, he brought out Jaroslav, tore
through Rod and Peter and then conceded.
???? 2 VP
Me 2 VP
Peter 1 VP
> [Round 2]
???? (Very Large Giovanni) -->
Me (More Modest Giovanni) -->
Cory (!Tor votey techy goodness) -->
Adam (Malk intercept feat. Tariq) -->
Lev (Turbo Baron)
Little did I know that the theme for the day would be arranging 2-2
table splits with my prey because of an overzealous grandpredator and
useless predator. This game, I arranged with Lev for us to not
conflict our crypts, although why anyone deals with Lev anymore is
beyond me. My predator brought out Marianna, then Kyle Strathcona, I
brought out Krassimir and came within one of bringing out Andrea, Cory
brought out Jost and another middling !Tor, Adam brought out little
Aussies then Tariq, Lev brought out Carlotta (I think) then the Baron.
Everyone knew Levs deck (the only other time I've been at a table with
Lev was the Cheesequake qualifier, where he played the same one), and
wanted to shut it down. His prey decided the best way to do that was
to transfer down to 3 pool. I really wanted Marianna gone so I could
bring out my Giovannis, and offered to Golconda her. He didn't like
that one bit, and declared his dying action would be to kill me. He
never got the chance, and Cory burst an artery because I could've
Golconda'd Lev's Baron and shut his game down for good. I didn't
realize that Golconda now said "remove from game," so I didn't even
consider hitting the Baron - not fatal error, since he would've just
paid for it, and then it's possible my predator would've gotten another
turn, so I can't say it was the worst of all choices.
Lev tears through his prey, I send a few Hordes upstream to thin out
his increasing ranks of vampires, and Cory offers the 2-2 split deal.
It was only in retrospect that I realized the similarity of the two
games - I had a speed bump predator, a very fast grand predator, and a
prey that had the best chance of reining in said overzealous
grandpredator cross table. In Cory's case it was Meddling, which
torpedo'd Lev's game. I bounced Lev's bleeds to Adam, and Cory took
them out with votes and bleeding.
Cory: 2 VP
Me: 2 VP
Lev: 1 VP
> [Finals]
I'll just toss some onto Eric's excellent report.
> Rob Williams (Giovanni bleed + Hordes) -->
> ??? (Brujah deck centered on Gwendolyn) -->
> Me (Tremere Antitribu equipment/wall) -->
> Shane Strait (Gangrel Animalism intercept wall) -->
> Cory (NERGAL!)
>
>
> I had seen Shambling Hordes in Rob's deck and thought that was the main
> theme. Thus I would rather be the predator and not have to be rushed
> all the time. (It turns out that Rob's deck was mainly a power bleed
> deck, with a few Hordes as a backup strategy. I was confused by his
> deck for much of the game, but it makes more sense in hindsight with
> this revelation). Shane decided to be my prey, since he knew my deck
> does squat in terms of forward pressure.
Yeah, a few backup Hordes as the "something for Andrea to do at 2
stealth, and once I get Perfectionist, Path, and Tower in play, it's
just like a blood doll!" phase. They definitely helped, since without
them I would've had zero bargaining leverage in the two games prior.
> Shane was the major proponent of the anti-Nergal alliance. He was
> extremely vocal about it. ??? was also very anti-Nergal. Both of these
> players had combat decks which couldn't deal with Nergal's combat. For
I think ??? would've been fine with it - he had a mix of close and long
cel/for/pot combat, but I don't think he ever got into his Alastors, so
just couldn't get into it. My Hordes wound up being me just throwing
blood away, but it did conveniently let me look like I was doing
something without really.
> most of the game, Shane had bragging rights for dealing the most
> unprevented damage (2) to Nergal. Rob was rather quiet but was willing
> to join the anti-coalition effort. I was the primary holdout. You see,
> out of all the players, my deck was the only one that was specifically
> built to be anti-Nergal and could possibly withstand such an assault. I
> built the deck with the intention of allying with Nergal, getting all
> of the other normal players ousted, and then surviving to time in order
> to defeat Nergal. Hence, it was not necessarily in my best interests to
> see Nergal dead. I reluctantly did agree to join the anti-Nergal
> coalition however.
We all saw this, but I don't know if it would've worked out for you in
the end, necessarily. I think Cory would have preferred to deal with
me, since I would be the least threat to him afterwards. I know nearly
every turn he was trying to convince me to break ranks.
> Cory had a ball with the Nergal deck but I think the major flaw he made
> was in spreading out his damage to everyone instead of focusing on one
> person at a time. He played Greater Haven on my Ladislas, bled ??? for
The two things that struck me as the main flaws were that he lost all
his Nergie tech when he spawned the great beast, and that he kept
refilling his library nearly every turn.
The first, well, there's no way he could know it would take him as long
to get it back as it did. It was really unforeseeable and bad luck.
For the other, it seemed to me like the best way to go was to
completely purge the library, maybe pulling back in a few useful cards,
but otherwise getting it to the point that you could cherry-pick your
hand for each action. He didn't, instead refilling it nearly all the
time, but it still seems like he tended to have enough of the cards he
needed until the very end, when he choked.
> Carlton was eventually killed by a Psychomachia. Shane's Gangrel were
> constantly getting beat into torpor. Nergal was focused more on
> bleeding out Shane and ??? since they had no access to bleed bounce. I
> managed to block several key actions of Nergal (such as Contagion) but
> I did get victimized a bit in return.
You blocking Contagion was huge. That would've ended the game much,
much sooner, particularly since none of our decks were bloat-heavy. My
vampires were empty most of the game, ???? relied on Anathema to
refill, which he didn't seem to get, and Shane was playing Gangrel.
Ok, I guess maybe /you/ had bloat tech, since you wound up having like
7 vampires out eventually. So maybe you should have tried and failed
to stop it.
> Interestingly enough, the anti-Nergal alliance actually worked. Though
> there were several opportunities for betrayal, everyone pretty much
> followed through. We shared Powerbase: Montreal, blocked key actions by
> Nergal, consistently bled Nergal, and did a lot of cross-table
> rescuing. All in all, while Nergal was around, none of the non-Nergal
> players did anything to directly hurt each other.
It seems like after we got our solidarity together, Cory wasn't sure
how to break up the bloc. The chatter definitely died off a bit once
we steeled our resolve.
> It's still kinda disturbing that my deck actually managed to win. Trust
> me, it really really is a terribly bad deck. I'm almost embarassed to
> admit just how atrocious it is. Now that I'm done with my Nergal
> events, I can *finally* take the darn thing apart! Stoooopid equipment
> deck!
I think it was perfectly reasonable in the finals - it doesn't look
threatening, which is important because Nergal might just go after the
strongest so he can seduce the weaker players into breaking ranks. It
doesn't look like a pushover, which is important because Nergal might
just start chewing up from the weakest, to get his pool and give the
other decks no really good reason to go after him.
I have no excuse for you getting to the finals though.
The thought pains me.
Pat
news:1134102311.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The two things that struck me as the main flaws were that he lost all
> his Nergie tech when he spawned the great beast,
This seems to be a very common mis-play of the Nergal rules.
When Nergal calls the Great Beast, he tries to burn, but his card text stops
him from burning, and he goes to the uncontrolled region WITH ALL HIS STUFF
INTACT, just as if he were Banished.
- Pat
echia...@yahoo.com
I know.
At the time, I told everyone that when Nergal gets burned, he goes back
to the uncontrolled WITH ALL HIS STUFF. But no one believed me,
including the Nergal player. Later I mentioned again that I was sure
that he would keep all his stuff, yet I was refuted once again.
At this point, I briefly considered calling up Goudie, but then I
remember that *last time* I had done that, there had been a mixup and I
had received the wrong answer and that some people got pissed off at me
anyway, so I thought better of it! ;)
Hey, I had told them the correct rulings *twice*. If no one else wanted
to play that way...well hey, I've got no complaints!
Fred Scott
news:1134109383.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> At this point, I briefly considered calling up Goudie, but then I
> remember that *last time* I had done that, there had been a mixup and I
> had received the wrong answer and that some people got pissed off at me
> anyway, so I thought better of it! ;)
Erk! Sorry about that. At the time, I thought the meaning of the
virtual/natural predator rules was obvious. I didn't realize that
the people running the Storyline tournaments actually did have kind
of a flawed way of looking at that. After some discussion they were
convinced that the way I and a few other people in this newsgroup
thought caused the fewest problems (even if it wasn't the most intuitive
way) was the right way and the website was ultimately altered to
reflect that. In short, I thought the current rules were the "obvious"
ones and also were the ones in effect at the time and that was not the
case.
Anyway, you were definitely right in this instance. Obviously, the
judge really dropped the ball on doing his homework.
Fred
adam....@gmail.com
was correct (Judge ruled otherwise).
The Baron with one Blood plays Force of Will, he then gets blocked, and
some reason (it was either Call the Hungry Dead or Conditioning) he
plays an action modifier that costs a blood. That takes precedence, and
thus the Force of Will is cancelled (can't afford it).
Now the question was whether or not The Baron still takes the
aggravated damage. Judge ruled that he does not take the damage because
the card was cancelled.
LSJ
> The Baron with one Blood plays Force of Will, he then gets blocked, and
> some reason (it was either Call the Hungry Dead or Conditioning) he
> plays an action modifier that costs a blood. That takes precedence, and
> thus the Force of Will is cancelled (can't afford it).
>
> Now the question was whether or not The Baron still takes the
> aggravated damage. Judge ruled that he does not take the damage because
> the card was cancelled.
How? Nothing above says anything about canceling it.
FoW reaches resolution (e.g., is blocked).
After resolution, FoW inflicts damage.
adam....@gmail.com
Vamp with One blood -> will pay for Force of Will (Action) is
unblocked.
Someone attempts to block.
Play Call the hungry Dead to attempt to stealth pass (cost one blood)
[action modifer are immediately paid for]
Now action is sucessful BUT has no blood to pay for Force of Will.
Doesn't the card "fizzle"?
Since it fizzles, does he still take the agg?
LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
> > adam....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > The Baron with one Blood plays Force of Will, he then gets blocked, and
> > > some reason (it was either Call the Hungry Dead or Conditioning) he
> > > plays an action modifier that costs a blood. That takes precedence, and
> > > thus the Force of Will is cancelled (can't afford it).
> > >
> > > Now the question was whether or not The Baron still takes the
> > > aggravated damage. Judge ruled that he does not take the damage because
> > > the card was cancelled.
> >
> > How? Nothing above says anything about canceling it.
> > FoW reaches resolution (e.g., is blocked).
> > After resolution, FoW inflicts damage.
>
> Vamp with One blood -> will pay for Force of Will (Action) is
> unblocked.
> Someone attempts to block.
> Play Call the hungry Dead to attempt to stealth pass (cost one blood)
> [action modifer are immediately paid for]
Ah. Above was "is blocked" -- i.e., the action reaches resolution.
> Now action is sucessful BUT has no blood to pay for Force of Will.
>
> Doesn't the card "fizzle"?
The action "fizzles", yes.
> Since it fizzles, does he still take the agg?
Yes, since card text indicates that the agg is not tied to the
successful resolution of the action.
adam....@gmail.com
example because the person would be drawing for stealth.
"> Yes, since card text indicates that the agg is not tied to the
> successful resolution of the action."
So the action card still takes place? Even though he couldn't pay for
it?
So he doesn't get the +2 Bleed (stated on the card) but he still gets
the agg (also stated on the card)?
Confused...
Force of Will
Only usable by a tapped vampire. [for] (D) Bleed with +1 bleed. This
vampire takes 2 points of aggravated damage (damage not preventable)
even if the action is blocked. Damage occurs after the action or combat
is resolved. [FOR] As above, but with +2 bleed, and the acting vampire
takes only 1 point of aggravated damage (damage not preventable).
Robert Goudie
> Yeah, that was a mistake on my part. I think I stated the conditioning
> example because the person would be drawing for stealth.
>
> "> Yes, since card text indicates that the agg is not tied to the
> > successful resolution of the action."
>
> So the action card still takes place? Even though he couldn't pay for
> it?
The "action continues with no effect". It does resolve but without
effect.
> So he doesn't get the +2 Bleed (stated on the card) but he still gets
> the agg (also stated on the card)?
And then, per FoW cardtext, the agg damage happens "after the action is
resolved".
-Robert
Drace
even mention this when Cory burnt Nergal. Though to be honest, at that
point of the game, Cory ran out of combat (From my guesses) as well as
wakes so it would've only dragged out another turn or two at most
(since Giovanni and you were around 10 odd pool and I was at 8 with an
archon investigation).
Drace
Robert Goudie
Drace wrote:
> Oh right and ??? = Drace Zhan.
Huh????
I'm speechless.
-Robert
echia...@yahoo.com
What he meant is that, when I typed up the report, I didn't know his
name. So I used "???" to sub-in for his name when regarding the player
of the Brujah Gwendolyn deck.
Drace
interface.