First Tradition
Dhar...@yahoo.com
> 1stTrad is burned when its controller has paid 6 pool in penalties or has
> skipped three turns (or is ousted, of course).
Quick question. I've got a deck that's pretty harsh that I'm considering
putting a few First Traditions in. Before I do, I wanted to get something
clarified first.
If I play 1st Trad, it isn't burned until I've skipped 3 turns or paid 6 pool,
but not if I do a combination of the two for 3 turns (i.e. skip 2 turns and
pay 2 pool). That is, First Tradition can potentially go for 5 turns.
Correct?
Noal McDonald
Michigan Jyhad League
http://kite.eecs.umich.edu/MIRT/
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LSJ
> LSJ wrote: (on 4/21/98)
> > 1stTrad is burned when its controller has paid 6 pool in penalties or has
> > skipped three turns (or is ousted, of course).
>
> Quick question. I've got a deck that's pretty harsh that I'm considering
> putting a few First Traditions in. Before I do, I wanted to get something
> clarified first.
>
> If I play 1st Trad, it isn't burned until I've skipped 3 turns or paid 6 pool,
> but not if I do a combination of the two for 3 turns (i.e. skip 2 turns and
> pay 2 pool). That is, First Tradition can potentially go for 5 turns.
> Correct?
Correct. But you won't get much use out of those extra two turns that you
skip. That's really only useful if your pool supply takes an unexpected dip -
then you can skip your way out of the 1st Trad rather than ousting yourself.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html
Dhar...@yahoo.com
> Correct. But you won't get much use out of those extra two turns that you
> skip. That's really only useful if your pool supply takes an unexpected dip -
> then you can skip your way out of the 1st Trad rather than ousting yourself.
That all depends. The deck I built pretty much screws everyone on the table
merely by existing once it gets in full swing, usually on turn 3. Skipping a
couple of turns really wouldn't hurt the performance of the deck. I'll prolly
have to toss them in there to make sure.
I can also see a 1st Trad working well with a Toreador intercept deck.
*shrug* Get a few vampires out, play 1st Trad and just sit there bouncing
bleeds and so forth.
Noal McDonald
--
"DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming others in their errors."
-Ambrose Bierce.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
LSJ
>
> LSJ wrote:
> > Correct. But you won't get much use out of those extra two turns that you
> > skip. That's really only useful if your pool supply takes an unexpected dip -
> > then you can skip your way out of the 1st Trad rather than ousting yourself.
>
> That all depends. The deck I built pretty much screws everyone on the table
> merely by existing once it gets in full swing, usually on turn 3. Skipping a
> couple of turns really wouldn't hurt the performance of the deck.
I don't see how. Every turn you skip is basically treating the 1st
Trad as non-existent except for giving others the opportunity to
take an "extra" turn by paying two pool.
Baseline: you skip, (and everyone skipped in turn around to you).
Net: The same as if the 1st Trad wasn't there, except that the number
of allowable skips (by you) remaining is reduced by one.
To the extreme: all players skip three turns. Net: no effect.
And, instead of taking the baseline, every other player has the
option of paying two pool to get what amounts to an "extra" turn
over the baseline.
So, when you skip, your card is basically just giving the other players
more options.
> I can also see a 1st Trad working well with a Toreador intercept deck.
> *shrug* Get a few vampires out, play 1st Trad and just sit there bouncing
> bleeds and so forth.
Unless your predator (wisely, I'd say, if he is smart enough to
notice your bounce potential) skips as well.
Dhar...@yahoo.com
> > That all depends. The deck I built pretty much screws everyone on the table
> > merely by existing once it gets in full swing, usually on turn 3. Skipping
> > a couple of turns really wouldn't hurt the performance of the deck.
>
> I don't see how. Every turn you skip is basically treating the 1st
> Trad as non-existent except for giving others the opportunity to
> take an "extra" turn by paying two pool.
The deck I've built is called "The Grind" because it grinds other decks to a
halt by stacking Masquerade Enforcements and Banishing vampires. It also
stacks Camarilla Threats to make discarding a _very_ expensive thing. Many
deck are hamstrung without being able to discard.
Once my deck is in full swing, half of the phases of a player's turn will cost
pool. Because of that, if I skip 2 turns to prolong the First Trad, it will
have no effect on the effectiveness of my deck. If other players skip their
turn, it only serves the purpose of the deck.
When First Trad is in play, it gives the advantage to decks with good pool
management. If you can make the pool up, chances are you're going to
play your turn.
> Baseline: you skip, (and everyone skipped in turn around to you).
> Net: The same as if the 1st Trad wasn't there, except that the number
> of allowable skips (by you) remaining is reduced by one.
Chances are that this will not happen. Decks with pool gain will continue
to play...decks that do not, will not.
> To the extreme: all players skip three turns. Net: no effect.
Again, I would only skip two turns to prolong the effect. After five turns,
the decks with pool gain should be way ahead of those decks without.
> So, when you skip, your card is basically just giving the other players
> more options.
With the other stuff in play, those "options" will cost about 3-4 pool each.
> > I can also see a 1st Trad working well with a Toreador intercept deck.
> > *shrug* Get a few vampires out, play 1st Trad and just sit there bouncing
> > bleeds and so forth.
>
> Unless your predator (wisely, I'd say, if he is smart enough to
> notice your bounce potential) skips as well.
Perhaps. That's something that I would have to test out. However, since
my group doesn't play bleed decks very often, this wouldn't be a vaible
strategy anyway. Most of us either play combat, voting or some sort
of theme deck.
In groups that do have a lot of bleed decks this would be a good strategy.
Most bleed decks have some sort of pool gain, so they're very likely to pay
to play. If a bleed deck stops playing because I have bounce potential, than
I can spend my 2 pool and do something else while my predator continues to
be hamstrung.
Noal McDonald
Michigan Jyhad League
http://kite.eecs.umich.edu/MIRT/