Aggravated damage question
can...@my-deja.com
effect for both examples the same if:
a) A vampire with 2 blood left receives 2 points of normal damage and 1
point of aggravated,
b) Same as above, but the damage received is 3 normal damage.
Will both examples result in the vampire going to torpor with zero
blood? It seems to me the aggravated damage here should have some kind
of extra effect, but according to the rules it shouldn't?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Noal McDonald
> With the changed rules of how aggravated damage is treated, is the
> effect for both examples the same if:
>
> a) A vampire with 2 blood left receives 2 points of normal damage
> and 1 point of aggravated,
Since regular damage is handled first, the vampire must spend the two
blood to heal the two points of regular damage. Then the point of
aggravated damage "wounds" the vampire, sending it to torpor.
> b) Same as above, but the damage received is 3 normal damage.
The vampire must spend three blood to heal the three points of damage.
Since it only has two, the vampire can not heal the third point and is
wounded, sending it to torpor. Since the vampire is already "wounded",
it must spend a blood for every point of aggravated damage it receives.
Since it has no blood, the vampire is burned.
Another scenario you should be aware of 2 normal and 2 aggravated
damage.
The two regular is paid for by removing the two blood. The first point
of aggravated damage wounds the vampire because it cannot be healed,
sending it to torpor. The 2nd point of aggravated damage must be paid
for, since the vampire is already wounded, or it is burned. Since it has
no blood, it is burned.
I realise that the current rules regarding aggravated damage are a bit
confusing. However, it is one of the rules that will be better phrased
when the Sabbat War rulebook sees print. (But don't send suggestions for
rewording rules. The final version of the rulebook is, at the very
least, in the final stages of pre-production or, more likely, already
sent off to the print presses.)
Regards,
Noal McDonald
NJL Rules Team Member/VEKN Prince of Farmington Hills, MI
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
skaffen
wrote:
>> b) Same as above, but the damage received is 3 normal damage.
>
>The vampire must spend three blood to heal the three points of damage.
>Since it only has two, the vampire can not heal the third point and is
>wounded, sending it to torpor. Since the vampire is already "wounded",
>it must spend a blood for every point of aggravated damage it receives.
>Since it has no blood, the vampire is burned.
>
As I understand the original question the scenario is: vampire with 2
blood recieves three non-aggravated damage. The the result is the same
as with 2 normal + 1 aggravated damage: The vampire spends two blood
to heal two points of damage, then it is not able to spend a third
blood to heal the third point of damage, thus going into torpor. The
outcome for both scenarios is the same. Which might sound a bit
strange, but there are plenty of good reasons why a vampire should not
be burned by a single point of aggravated damage...
Regards
Skaffen
Chantry Elder Of Munich
"Our hearts discern wild images of Death,
Shadows and shoals that edge eternity."
Noal McDonald
> As I understand the original question the scenario is: vampire with 2
> blood recieves three non-aggravated damage. The the result is the same
> as with 2 normal + 1 aggravated damage: The vampire spends two blood
> to heal two points of damage, then it is not able to spend a third
> blood to heal the third point of damage, thus going into torpor.
Correct. In both cases, the vampire would be in torpor with no blood.
> The outcome for both scenarios is the same.
In this intance, yes.
> Which might sound a bit strange, but there are plenty of
> good reasons why a vampire should not be burned by a single
> point of aggravated damage...
A vampire _can_ be burned by a single point of damage. For example, a
vampire with two blood that takes 3 normal damage and 1 agg damage will
be burned. The current official ruling is a functional compromise
between the original Jyhad ruling that made it impossible to burn a
vampire with a single point of aggravated damage and the VTES rule that
made it fairly easy to burn a vampire with agg damage.
However, the downside to the ruling is that it is fairly difficult to
explain. That's why us National Jyhad League folks use the VTES rule.
Regards,
Noal McDoanld
Prince/Priscus of Farmington Hills, MI
kindred_...@my-deja.com
> >Since it has no blood, the vampire is burned.
> >
>
> blood recieves three non-aggravated damage. The the result is the same
> as with 2 normal + 1 aggravated damage: The vampire spends two blood
> to heal two points of damage, then it is not able to spend a third
> outcome for both scenarios is the same. Which might sound a bit
> strange, but there are plenty of good reasons why a vampire should not
> be burned by a single point of aggravated damage...
>
>
> Skaffen
> Chantry Elder Of Munich
>
> "Our hearts discern wild images of Death,
> Shadows and shoals that edge eternity."
>
This seems likes a good time to ask some questions about aggravated
damage that have been bothering me for some time.
1) If a vampire recieves aggravated damage and normal damage at the
same time which is resolved first? ( example: Carrion Crows and Wolf
Claws)
2) What if the damage is not all resloved at the same time. (Wolf Claws
and Drawing out the Beast)
3) What if they are resolved at different times but it is all
aggravated (I play Dawn Operation, Drawing out the Beast, and strike
with Scorpian Sting)
4) What if they are resolved at different times and twice during the
same strike phase, not addition strike. (I put a fortitude skill card
on Dragos, I play Dawn Operation, 3 Horde Forms, 2 Drawing out the
Beast, 1 Scorpian Sting and 1 Blood to Acid). Trust me, this happens
and I played Reform the Body on Dragos, and he rescued himself in the
same turn. Poor fool, thought Acrobatics and a Sengir Dagger would
protect him.
Thanks,
Justin
Kinderd Historian
can...@my-deja.com
gregor...@firemail.de (skaffen) wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:51:04 GMT, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> b) Same as above, but the damage received is 3 normal damage.
> >
> >The vampire must spend three blood to heal the three points of
damage.
> >Since it only has two, the vampire can not heal the third point and
is
> >wounded, sending it to torpor. Since the vampire is
already "wounded",
> >it must spend a blood for every point of aggravated damage it
receives.
> >
>
> As I understand the original question the scenario is: vampire with 2
> blood recieves three non-aggravated damage. The the result is the same
> as with 2 normal + 1 aggravated damage: The vampire spends two blood
> to heal two points of damage, then it is not able to spend a third
> blood to heal the third point of damage, thus going into torpor. The
> outcome for both scenarios is the same. Which might sound a bit
> strange, but there are plenty of good reasons why a vampire should not
> be burned by a single point of aggravated damage...
>
> Regards
>
> Skaffen
> Chantry Elder Of Munich
>
> "Our hearts discern wild images of Death,
> Shadows and shoals that edge eternity."
>
>
Yes this is how I meant, but I realise my wording made it unclear :)
Thanks to both of you for your answers. IMO I think the VTES rules for
aggravated dmg should have stayed, after all it's usually harder to win
with a combat deck than a bleed deck, and there's enough of things to
prevent dmg with anyway.
Noal McDonald
> This seems likes a good time to ask some questions about aggravated
> damage that have been bothering me for some time.
I'll be happy to help in any way that I can.
> 1) If a vampire recieves aggravated damage and normal damage at the
> same time which is resolved first? ( example: Carrion Crows and Wolf
> Claws)
Per the rulebook, normal damage is resolved first.
> 2) What if the damage is not all resloved at the same time. (Wolf
> Claws and Drawing out the Beast)
It's resolved in the order it's received.
The 1 agg from Wolf Claws is resolved before the 1 normal from DotB, in
this case.
> 3) What if they are resolved at different times but it is all
> aggravated (I play Dawn Operation, Drawing out the Beast, and
> strike with Scorpian Sting)
Again, it's resolved in the order that it's received.
In this case, the the vampire receives 2 agg from the Scorpion
Sting/Dawn Op, which sends the vampire to torpor and requires the
vampire to spend 1 blood to avoid being burned. (Because it can't be
healed, the first point of agg damage simply "wounds" the vampire,
sending it to torpor.) Then the vampire receives an additional point of
aggravated damage from DotB/Dawn Op which requires it to burn an
additional point of plood to avoid being burned.
> 4) What if they are resolved at different times and twice during the
> same strike phase, not addition strike.
All damage received during a single strike phase is handled
simultaneously during the damage resolution phase that follows the
strike resolution phase.
> (I put a fortitude skill card on Dragos, I play Dawn Operation, 3
> Horde Forms, 2 Drawing out the Beast, 1 Scorpian Sting and 1 Blood
> to Acid).
In this case, the 5 agg damage from the Dawn Op/(3x) Horrid
Form/Scorpion Sting would be resolved at the same time as any agg damage
that Blood to Acid inflicts. Then it would be followed by the 2 agg from
the Dawn Op/(2x) DotB. Assuming that the opposing vampire hit you for 1
pt of damage (normal or agg) and couldn't prevent any damage, it would
have to pay 7 blood to avoid being burned.
Regards,
Noal McDonald
Prince/Priscus of Farmington Hills, MI
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
James Coupe
>IMO I think the VTES rules for
>aggravated dmg should have stayed, after all it's usually harder to win
>with a combat deck than a bleed deck, and there's enough of things to
>prevent dmg with anyway.
Well, I can see arguments in favour of keeping the V:TES rule, I'll keep
that as a separate thing entirely.
With regards preventing damage, however, your only real disciplineless
options are Flak Jacket and Leather Jacket - and against a concerted
attack of the sort you mention, multiple damage rather than just a 1
point claw - only Leather Jacket is really usable.
I would say, though, that despite the extra complexity of the rule, the
new rule *is* worth the effort.
--
James Coupe
LSJ
> kindred_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > 1) If a vampire recieves aggravated damage and normal damage at the
> > same time which is resolved first? ( example: Carrion Crows and Wolf
> > Claws)
>
> Per the rulebook, normal damage is resolved first.
Correct.
> > 2) What if the damage is not all resloved at the same time. (Wolf
> > Claws and Drawing out the Beast)
>
> It's resolved in the order it's received.
Correct.
> The 1 agg from Wolf Claws is resolved before the 1 normal from DotB,
> in this case.
Right. And the 1 normal still requires the (now-wounded) vampire to
burn a blood (to heal the damage). If he can't, though, he'll simply
remain "wounded" - normal damage has no other effect.
> > 3) What if they are resolved at different times but it is all
> > aggravated (I play Dawn Operation, Drawing out the Beast, and
> > strike with Scorpian Sting)
>
> Again, it's resolved in the order that it's received.
>
> In this case, the the vampire receives 2 agg from the Scorpion
> Sting/Dawn Op, which sends the vampire to torpor and requires the
> vampire to spend 1 blood to avoid being burned. (Because it can't be
> healed, the first point of agg damage simply "wounds" the vampire,
> sending it to torpor.) Then the vampire receives an additional point
> of aggravated damage from DotB/Dawn Op which requires it to burn an
> additional point of plood to avoid being burned.
Correct.
> > 4) What if they are resolved at different times and twice during the
> > same strike phase, not addition strike.
>
> All damage received during a single strike phase is handled
> simultaneously during the damage resolution phase that follows the
> strike resolution phase.
Damage resolution is part of strike resolution, but OK.
Strike resolution occurs in two stages: apply effect(s) of strike(s)
and then resolve damage (if any).
> > (I put a fortitude skill card on Dragos, I play Dawn Operation, 3
> > Horde Forms, 2 Drawing out the Beast, 1 Scorpian Sting and 1 Blood
> > to Acid).
>
> In this case, the 5 agg damage from the Dawn Op/(3x) Horrid
> Form/Scorpion Sting would be resolved at the same time as any agg
> damage that Blood to Acid inflicts. Then it would be followed by
> the 2 agg from the Dawn Op/(2x) DotB. Assuming that the opposing
> vampire hit you for 1 pt of damage (normal or agg) and couldn't
> prevent any damage, it would have to pay 7 blood to avoid being
> burned.
6 blood. The first point of agg wounds him, then he pays 4 for the
rest during strike resolution, then two more for the DotB at the end
of the round.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
hamd...@my-deja.com
> > > (I put a fortitude skill card on Dragos, I play Dawn Operation, 3
> > > Horde Forms, 2 Drawing out the Beast, 1 Scorpian Sting and 1 Blood
> > > to Acid).
> >
> > In this case, the 5 agg damage from the Dawn Op/(3x) Horrid
> > Form/Scorpion Sting would be resolved at the same time as any agg
> > damage that Blood to Acid inflicts. Then it would be followed by
> > the 2 agg from the Dawn Op/(2x) DotB. Assuming that the opposing
> > vampire hit you for 1 pt of damage (normal or agg) and couldn't
> > prevent any damage, it would have to pay 7 blood to avoid being
> > burned.
>
> 6 blood. The first point of agg wounds him, then he pays 4 for the
> rest during strike resolution, then two more for the DotB at the end
> of the round
Surely minimum damage the opposing minion would do would be 3 - DOtB x2
gives +2 hand damage. Dragos only has basic vissitude, so does not get
the damage prevention of Horrid Form. Therefore, damage would be 8
blood (unless fortitude damage prevention cards are played).
Nit picking is great fun!
DH
Anal Retentive Prince of Watford
Noal McDonald
>> Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> In this case, the 5 agg damage from the Dawn Op/(3x) Horrid
>> Form/Scorpion Sting would be resolved at the same time as any agg
>> damage that Blood to Acid inflicts. Then it would be followed by
>> the 2 agg from the Dawn Op/(2x) DotB. Assuming that the opposing
>> vampire hit you for 1 pt of damage (normal or agg) and couldn't
>> prevent any damage, it would have to pay 7 blood to avoid being
>> burned.
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> 6 blood. The first point of agg wounds him, then he pays 4 for the
> rest during strike resolution, then two more for the DotB at the end
> of the round.
Uh...no. Count it again.
Dawn Op/(3x) Horrid Form/Scorpion Sting = 5 agg
Blood to Acid = 1 agg (assumed)
Dawn Op/(2x) DotB = 2 agg
8 agg damage = sent to torpor, spend 7 blood to avoid being burned.
Regards,
Noal
--
"I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from
what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species,
of pure sons of bitches."
--Faulkner, "The Mansion"
LSJ
> >> Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> In this case, the 5 agg damage from the Dawn Op/(3x) Horrid
> >> Form/Scorpion Sting would be resolved at the same time as any agg
> >> damage that Blood to Acid inflicts. Then it would be followed by
> >> the 2 agg from the Dawn Op/(2x) DotB. Assuming that the opposing
> >> vampire hit you for 1 pt of damage (normal or agg) and couldn't
> >> prevent any damage, it would have to pay 7 blood to avoid being
> >> burned.
>
> > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > 6 blood. The first point of agg wounds him, then he pays 4 for the
> > rest during strike resolution, then two more for the DotB at the end
> > of the round.
>
> Uh...no. Count it again.
>
> Dawn Op/(3x) Horrid Form/Scorpion Sting = 5 agg
> Blood to Acid = 1 agg (assumed)
> Dawn Op/(2x) DotB = 2 agg
>
> 8 agg damage = sent to torpor, spend 7 blood to avoid being burned.
Ah. Right you are. Sorry about that. Glossed over the Acid (since it
didn't have a number in it to catch my eye :-)
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.