New Preview : Target Hand
Orpheus
Target Hand
Combat
Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
has. A minion may play only one aim each strike.
--
Orpheus
----------------
Top of Ban / Fix List : PTO, Champion, Memories of Mortality.
Shockwave
*Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D
AcheronNi...@gmail.com
> Oooh, new card type?
>
> *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D
i hope so :)
this card works well to counter "opportunity" magnum - which is nice -
works best with first strike
Morgan Vening
wrote:
>Am I gonna be the first to announce them all ? lol.
>
>Target Hand
>Combat
>Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
>
>The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
>damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
>or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
>has. A minion may play only one aim each strike.
The thing I see in our meta, is that it has no real effect on S:CE or
Fortitude (two fairly common concepts). And decks that revolve around
that don't count their slaps back as anything but a bonus (Fort/Disarm
not withstanding). Though it could boost an IG/Dead Hand deck
significantly.
Morgan Vening
-But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy.
Orpheus
>>
>> *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D
Something like (I'm making it up) :
Target Foot
Combat
Aim. Play when choosing a strike
The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, put
this card on him or her ; a minion with this card cannot strike to end
combat. Burn this card when the minion gains 1 blood or life. If this card
is played with First Strike and the opposing minion doesn't play First
Strike, he or she cannot dodge or strike to end combat.
A minion may play only one aim each strike.
A little circonvoluted, I know, but I couldn't find easier phrasing right
now...
------
Orpheus
--
Forget about it is like if you agree with someone, you know, like Raquel
Welch is one great piece of ass, forget about it. But then, if you disagree,
like A Lincoln is better than a Cadillac? Forget about it! you know? But
then, it's also like if something's the greatest thing in the world, like
mingia those peppers, forget about it. But it's also like saying Go to hell!
too. Like, you know, like "Hey Paulie, you got a one inch pecker?" and
Paulie says "Forget about it!" Sometimes it just means forget about it.
AcheronNi...@gmail.com
> On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:11:24 +0200, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr>
it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land
J
> Combat
> Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
>
> The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
> damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
> or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
> has. A minion may play only one aim each strike.
Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average.
Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon. I could see much
better uses for the slots that this card would take up in a deck.
Hopefully there are better aim cards, or this card type will end up
rarely seen.
--> J
grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com
Shockwave
> >> Oooh, new card type?
>
> >> *Hope rises on the 'cancel a grapple / S:CE' front for an Aim. :D
>
> Something like (I'm making it up) :
Bit too long for me Orpheus, I'd go for....
Fatal Hesitation
Combat
Aim. Play when choosing a strike
The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card.
Opposing Minion cannot play 'Combat Ends' as a Strike.
They can cancel it, but either way against a dedicated CE deck you'll
end up burning through their CE a bit faster.
Orpheus
I think you're not looking at those cards with the right angle.
The Aim cards add a litlte spice and more variety to combat. That's all.
It probably won't make combat much more terrifying, or more viable as a
winning strategy, but it might make it funnier to oppose two combat decks
one against the other.
And it won't cluster a combat deck too much either. This one could even help
some Pot fighters without For to resist their opponents and even use Disarm
more easily.
Not game-breaking, but nice and colourful. If you're looking for anything
else you might be disappointed, and rightfully so.
Orpheus
>>
>> Something like (I'm making it up) :
> <snip>
>
> Bit too long for me Orpheus,
I get that mate.
> I'd go for....
>
> Fatal Hesitation
The name isn't right, you must choose a body part.
> Combat
> Aim. Play when choosing a strike
>
> The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card.
> Opposing Minion cannot play 'Combat Ends' as a Strike.
Works of course, but maybe it's too powerful, which is why I'd like it to
work that way only if in first strike.
> They can cancel it, but either way against a dedicated CE deck you'll
> end up burning through their CE a bit faster.
Yes, it would have that effect. But it would allow easy anti-S:CE to minions
without Pot, CEL or AUS, and would definitely wallpaperize Thought Betrayed.
I don't think it would be good for the game, I'd rather see one day a new
Grapple under Thanatosis and / or Quietus.
J
I think I am.
> The Aim cards add a litlte spice and more variety to combat. That's all.
Sure, but you could make any card to add variety, but if it's not as
good as pre-existing cards it won't be used and thus no variety
enhancing will happen.
> And it won't cluster a combat deck too much either. This one could even help
> some Pot fighters without For to resist their opponents and even use Disarm
> more easily.
maybe only for mono-potence weenies, but still Torn Signpost or
StrikeX are still better uses of your limited card slots.
> Not game-breaking, but nice and colourful. If you're looking for anything
> else you might be disappointed, and rightfully so.
It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how
often do you see weapons?
Morgan Vening
wrote:
>> >Target Hand
>> >Combat
>> >Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
>>
>> >The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
>> >damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
>> >or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
>> >has. A minion may play only one aim each strike.
>>
>> The thing I see in our meta, is that it has no real effect on S:CE or
>> Fortitude (two fairly common concepts). And decks that revolve around
>> that don't count their slaps back as anything but a bonus (Fort/Disarm
>> not withstanding). Though it could boost an IG/Dead Hand deck
>> significantly.
>>
>> Morgan Vening
>> -But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy.
>
>it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land
Only if they're playing with large numbers of additional strikes or
presses, or you're playing with First Strike or presses. Because
unless I'm reading it wrong, on the initial round of combat, the -1
strength doesn't get applied until AFTER the current strikes are
resolved.
So, the list of situations so far, where it is good to play.
- when blocking
- when not seeing lots of S:CE you can't get around anyway
- when you are playing First Strike.
- when they are playing additional strikes
- when either is playing presses.
I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I
(we?) could be wrong.
Morgan Vening
AcheronNi...@gmail.com
i dont want grapple card - i want equal chances - my BBT WWS against
their punch for 1
dont forget that aim can cost let's say 1 blood :)
agzocgud
back into the deck (vampires card text, library-cards in play that
effect aim-cards).
A 10 card package that offsets your weaknesses and/or boosts your
strenghts even further in combat.
I hope there are zero defensive aim-cards.
Orpheus
> often do you see weapons?
Often.
Orpheus
Aim : Bollocks.
Your opponent can't strike you this turn, and might just whimper with a very
high-pitched voice.
islando...@aol.com
> >> -But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy.
>
> >it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land
>
> Only if they're playing with large numbers of additional strikes or
> presses, or you're playing with First Strike or presses. Because
> unless I'm reading it wrong, on the initial round of combat, the -1
> strength doesn't get applied until AFTER the current strikes are
> resolved.
>
> So, the list of situations so far, where it is good to play.
- when your opponent has equipment you're sick of looking at
- when you have Smudge the Ignored and Trap
> I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I
> (we?) could be wrong.
Really? See, I personally have been asking for more cards that can
get equipment off the table. And if this is a card which can fit into
almost any deck and is capable of burning a .44 Magnum or an Ivory
Bow, well, I couldn't be happier -- unless it burned any equipment,
instead of just weapons.
Also note that any weenie + Trap + Target Hand + unarmed opponent =
Awesome.
-- Brian
Blooded Sand
Crap. DOM weenie combat. Crap. Thoughts + Trap + Maybe 2-3 Aim cards.
Dead big vamp from 4 cap Weenie DOM monster. Crap.
AcheronNi...@gmail.com
well if someone dont play combat cards he deserve to die :P
Morgan Vening
>> >> Morgan Vening
>> >> -But apparently I'm a "half empty" kinda guy.
>>
>> >it is good when you are blocking or you know that this hit will land
>>
>> Only if they're playing with large numbers of additional strikes or
>> presses, or you're playing with First Strike or presses. Because
>> unless I'm reading it wrong, on the initial round of combat, the -1
>> strength doesn't get applied until AFTER the current strikes are
>> resolved.
>>
>> So, the list of situations so far, where it is good to play.
>
> - when your opponent has equipment you're sick of looking at
As you explain further, it's weapon, not equipment.
> - when you have Smudge the Ignored and Trap
Unless they have S:CE or can do more than 1 damage in any of those
rounds (including the first).
>> I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I
>> (we?) could be wrong.
>
>Really? See, I personally have been asking for more cards that can
>get equipment off the table. And if this is a card which can fit into
>almost any deck and is capable of burning a .44 Magnum or an Ivory
>Bow, well, I couldn't be happier -- unless it burned any equipment,
>instead of just weapons.
Assuming you are capable of still hurting them. Most decks I see with
guns can keep it at long. So then you're still needing a ranged
strike. Which essentially makes this card a slow Canine Horde.
>Also note that any weenie + Trap + Target Hand + unarmed opponent =
>Awesome.
Unarmed and defenceless. In which case wouldn't another card be better
situated?
I like WHAT it does. Just not HOW it does it.
Morgan Vening
AcheronNi...@gmail.com
this card have very good synergy with any strikes which give press
such as:thrown sewer lid, starvation of marena. it IS different CH
which doesn't require animalism - it is meta card :)
adam....@gmail.com
Does no one see that the Trap combos (Apparition, skin adder, song of
serenity, superior mettle) is now made disciplineless? Its pretty cool
to me. They need to discard two combat cards to cancel it (can you
play another if it is cancelled?), which unless you are playing a
combat deck its not that common. Plus you can destroy a pesky gun.
This type of deck can now be played with almost anyone now.
I was about to remake my skin of adder / trap deck. But a combat
imbued trap with target hand deck looks good too. (Using react with
conviction to stop those majesties).
Jeroen
> Why is everyone saying that this card will never be played?
>
> Does no one see that the Trap combos (Apparition, skin adder, song of
> serenity, superior mettle) is now made disciplineless? Its pretty cool
> to me.
More weenie combat. Look at me not jumping for joy.
They need to discard two combat cards to cancel it (can you
> play another if it is cancelled?), which unless you are playing a
> combat deck its not that common. Plus you can destroy a pesky gun.
> This type of deck can now be played with almost anyone now.
Yes. With 2 caps most likely. woot
>
> I was about to remake my skin of adder / trap deck. But a combat
> imbued trap with target hand deck looks good too. (Using react with
> conviction to stop those majesties).
yeah. great....
I hope the rule LSJ mentioned is something about when you can play aim
cards....
Malone
> Grapple under Thanatosis and / or Quietus.
>
> --
> Orpheus
Great idea, but it doesn't necessarily need to be a grapple. It could
be a Frenzy, or even a typeless combat card like:
Blood Decays
[qui] Only usable before range is determined. This round, the
opposing minion must burn two blood to strike to end combat.
[thn] As [qui], but for the remainder of this combat.
[THN] Only usable before range is determined. Burn a Mortal or
Animal retainer on the opposing minion, or burn a blood to burn the
opposing Mortal or Animal ally.
LSJ
> I hope the rule LSJ mentioned is something about when you can play aim
> cards....
"LSJ mentioned"?
Jeroen
You didn't? I must have misremembered then. Someone mentioned a new
rule, i thought it was you. Or was it in the magazine thread?
Sorry :-)
Appolonius
>
> I agree with J. I can't see this being worth the deck space. Though I
> (we?) could be wrong.
Bah, this card has awesome entertainment potential.
I throw a Well Aimed Car... AT YOUR HAND!!!
I Collapse the Arches... ON YOUR HAND!!!
I strike with inferior Decapitate... ON YOUR HAND!!!
Plus with superior Fractured Armament you could destroy _two_ weapons!
Ahem, I'll shut up now.
Appolonius.
I Garrote... YOUR HAND!!!
RocketEddy
> > Target Hand
> > Combat
> > Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
>
> > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
> > damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
> > or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
> > has. A minion may play only one aim each strike.
>
> Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average.
> Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon. I could see much
> better uses for the slots that this card would take up in a deck.
I'd say it has very nice synergy with earthshock, personally.
Especially if you see a lot of cel-gun in your meta.
adam....@gmail.com
John Flournoy
wrote:
> How does first strike work with the destroying weapon part?
If you destroy the weapon with first strike, it is not available when
the strike declared with it resolves, thus no strike is resolved. Same
sort of timing/situation as "I declared a strike with my weapon and
then my opponent played Immortal Grapple"
-John Flournoy
XZealot
> Am I gonna be the first to announce them all ? lol.
>
> Combat
> Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
>
> The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
> damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
> or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
> has. A minion may play only one aim each strike.
I see this as being really good for Muddles, Renegade Garou,
Shamblers, War Ghoul and Ossian.
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
adam....@gmail.com
You play this as you anounce your strike.
It only comes into effect if damage is successful.
Normal damage is done simulateously.
Does that mean the -1 strength does not affect the initial strike of
the opposing minion?
Shockwave
Okay, I laughed. Especially if it was an Arbt Kindred.
> Plus with superior Fractured Armament you could destroy _two_ weapons!
Yeah, that'll teach all those people using Dual Berettas! Oh wait! :D
witness1
adam....@gmail.com
oooh... agg poke still dangerous then.
If you have first strike I'm guessing the -1 strength does happen
first.
How about if you do a steal blood/life strike?
witness1
I aim my Catatonic Fear at your hand. Psyche!
witness1
XZealot
wrote:
Correct, unless the strike was made with first strike. See Withering.
adam....@gmail.com
Auugh, we all posted at the same time. Reiterate my next question.
How about stealing blood/life strike? Does the -1 str affter the
normal initial strike then?
The Lasombra
wrote:
> How about stealing blood/life strike? Does the -1 str affter the
> normal initial strike then?
No.
Card text is clear that Target: Hand has zero effect unless a damage
dealing strike is performed.
"If any damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the
opposing minion, "
Stealing life/blood will not trigger the effect of the Target card.
The Lasombra
> I hope the rule LSJ mentioned is something about when you can play aim
> cards....
I don't know about any rule, but card text is clear.
"A minion may play only one aim each strike."
If the first aim is cancelled, another cannot be played.
The Lasombra
wrote:
> (can you play another if it is cancelled?)
No.
Card text is clear.
adam....@gmail.com
Okay, I had to look up the whole Direct-Intervention-Cancelling
discussion to understand correctly.
Thanks.
sta...@hotmail.com
> > Target Hand
> > Combat
> > Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
>
> > The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
> > damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
> > or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
>
> Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average.
> Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon. I could see much
> better uses for the slots that this card would take up in a deck.
>
> rarely seen.
>
> --> J
> grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com
Destroy a weapon without worrying about range, and without a
discipline? The alone makes it worth looking into ...
adam....@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Destroy a weapon without worrying about range, "
Well you still have to successfully do strike damage (enviromental no
good) which is dependent on range...
Orpheus
>> the opposing minion?
>
> Correct, unless the strike was made with first strike. See Withering.
BTW, if I make a Withering strike with First Strike, can the opposing minion
still use a S:CE requiring a discipline or can't he ? I need to B sure...
--------
Orpheus
sutekh_23
As far as I understand it the opposing minion can, S:CE goes off
before "third" strike. Also, First strike only means your strike
resolves first, It (as far as I know) does not limit your opponents
strike options in any way (except in the case of things like CH vs
guns)
Sutekh_23
sta...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
yeah that's OK, what I'm trying to say that by simply being
disciplineless weapon destruction, which is also not range dependant,
that you should expect some restrictions. And even if the gaming in
your area isn't all weapons then you've still got the -1 strength, so
yeah overall it seems quite a resonable card.
Rehlow
> > I think you're not looking at those cards with the right angle.
>
> I think I am.
>
> > The Aim cards add a litlte spice and more variety to combat. That's all.
>
> Sure, but you could make any card to add variety, but if it's not as
> good as pre-existing cards it won't be used and thus no variety
> enhancing will happen.
>
> > And it won't cluster a combat deck too much either. This one could even help
> > some Pot fighters without For to resist their opponents and even use Disarm
> > more easily.
>
> maybe only for mono-potence weenies, but still Torn Signpost or
> StrikeX are still better uses of your limited card slots.
>
> > Not game-breaking, but nice and colourful. If you're looking for anything
> > else you might be disappointed, and rightfully so.
>
> It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how
> often do you see weapons?
When I am playing guns, I really don't like it when my opponent has a
gun. Especially when playing with defensive guns like Deer Rifle or
Sniper Rifle. I really, really don't like seeing my opponent with an
Ivory Bow. Now I can shoot it out of your hand.
'Play when choosing a strike' is the same window I can play Wolf Claws
after seeing what my opponent plays, correct? Or do I have to choose
my strike and then immediately play an Aim card before my opponent
chooses their strike?
Later,
~Rehlow
LSJ
> 'Play when choosing a strike' is the same window I can play Wolf Claws
> after seeing what my opponent plays, correct? Or do I have to choose
> my strike and then immediately play an Aim card before my opponent
> chooses their strike?
The latter. Play when choosing your strike.
Peter D Bakija
J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Seriously, who is going to put these into a deck? Fairly average.
> Reduce a minions str by 1 and destroy a weapon.
I think the main use of this card is as a disciplineless weapon
destroyer. Which is pretty good. Except that it is incredibly easy to
cancel (discard 2 cards, which is often a huge benefit in and of
itself). But that being said, I can certainly see some decks including
them to:
A) Try and kill weapons first and foremost in a high weapon environment.
B) Sometimes save you from additional strikes as a handy cycle ability.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
"Find hungry samurai."
-The Old Man
Peter D Bakija
J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how
> often do you see weapons?
Interesting--IME, weapons show up *a lot*. Usually guns, but as guns are
good for both offensive combat (weeine CEL, etc.) and defensive combat
(weenie AUS, any kind of CEL blocky deck, Sniper Rifles). The Imbued
also use weapons a often (as they can equip with them without an action
and aren't overly concerned about the Improvised Flame Thrower
exploding...)
I see guns in both competitive and casual play all the time. I see melee
weapons a lot less often, but guns show up enough to justify the
inclusion of anti-weapon tech in pretty much any deck worthwhile.
Peter D Bakija
I <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote:
> I think the main use of this card is as a disciplineless weapon
> destroyer. Which is pretty good. Except that it is incredibly easy to
> cancel (discard 2 cards, which is often a huge benefit in and of
> itself).
Heh. On closer examination, it is discard two *combat* cards to cancel
Target Hand. Which is much less easy than "discard 2 cards", but still
possible. But it is very common to run into decks that pack guns and no
other actual combat cards. So sidelining a few of these into, like, a
Thrown Gate deck (to throw a Gate at the hand of the guy with the
Magnum...) will be pure gold, I'd suspect.
librarian
> In article <pdb6-DC0BE9.1...@news-server.stny.rr.com>,
> I <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the main use of this card is as a disciplineless weapon
>> destroyer. Which is pretty good. Except that it is incredibly easy to
>> cancel (discard 2 cards, which is often a huge benefit in and of
>> itself).
>
> Heh. On closer examination, it is discard two *combat* cards to cancel
> Target Hand. Which is much less easy than "discard 2 cards", but still
> possible. But it is very common to run into decks that pack guns and no
> other actual combat cards. So sidelining a few of these into, like, a
> Thrown Gate deck (to throw a Gate at the hand of the guy with the
> Magnum...) will be pure gold, I'd suspect.
My first thought was that it seems to hose Imbued Darby Dance decks
right out of the gate. When is the last time you saw an Imbued deck
with more than say 4 combat cards in 60? Um, never? There goes the
Ivory bow, one of the key cards in many Imbued decks.
best -
chris
--
Super Fun Cards
http://stores.ebay.com/superfuncards/
auct...@superfuncards.com
librarian
Well, since stealing blood isn't doing damage, my guess is that you
don't get any benefit from Target Hand.
librarian
You need to be sure? Are you building a deck with this card *right
now*, for a tournament this weekend?
;-)
Shockwave
> and aren't overly concerned about the Improvised Flame Thrower
> exploding...)
Grrrrr. Humans who don't mind being set on fire. >_<
(Sorry, didn't want to bring it up again....)
I agree, the card(s) will only suit certain groups. So let's hope
they're varied enough to encourage all of them in cross-group (i.e
competitive) play. :)
J
> weapons a lot less often, but guns show up enough to justify the
> inclusion of anti-weapon tech in pretty much any deck worthwhile.
Sure, if you see guns a lot, then it's ok. But if you see them only
semi-regularly or less, it's not worth it IMO. I'm the only player
who regularly plays with weapons in my social group, and I might see
maybe 5% of tournament decks with guns in them. Plus if I'm taking
combat to a tournie, I usually figure that I'll be able to out muscle
opportunistic guns anyway which is where most guns at a tournie come
from, as there are very few cel/gun decks that I see at tournies, the
combat is more likely to be potence/animalism/thaumaturgy.
YMMV, but generally I still feel that this card isn't worth slotting
in at the expense of other cards.
Wookie813
> > BTW, if I make a Withering strike with First Strike, can the opposing minion
> > still use a S:CE requiring a discipline or can't he ? I need to B sure...
If I'm judge, I rule that strikes are chosen simultaneously, so any
strike that required a discipline had already been played before the
Withering resolves. Once resolved, the opposing minion could not play
any cards that required disciplines (i.e. Disarm).
Withering
Type: Combat
Requires: Thanatosis/Animalism
[ani] Strike: 1R damage.
[thn] Strike: make a hand strike. Place this card on the opposing
minion. The minion with this card has -1 strength. Burn this card
during his or her controller's next discard phase.
[THN] As [thn] above, and the minion with this card cannot play cards
that require any Disciplines.
The key word here being "play". A Majesty, as an example, would
already have been played before the Withering restricts the minion
from playing cards that require disciplines. If the ruling is
otherwise, well then it just doesn't make good sense.
The inferior, however, would give the opposing minion -1 str at
resolution, which, with first strike, would happen before the opposing
minion's resolution, meaning the -1 str would already be applied.
Benird
decks. You know the ones that have Moise and the Ivory Bow, Segnire
(spelling???) Dagger, Crusader Sword, etc and tool up the minions with
them.
They rarely pack combat cards since hteir conviction and powers work
nicely for them and unless oyu're packing a disciplin to steal/destroy
equipment then they keep blocking and sending you to torpor.
This card may cause you to go to Torpor a few times but at least it's
not every time. Since there's only so many times they can get these
weapons back.
Orpheus
>> minion still use a S:CE requiring a discipline or can't he ? I need to B
>> sure...
>> --------
>> Orpheus
>
> You need to be sure? Are you building a deck with this card *right now*,
> for a tournament this weekend?
>
> ;-)
>
> best -
>
> chris
Not right now for this week-end, as a matter of facts I won't build much
before the French Championship (can't even play correctly anymore) but after
that if the idea worked I'd love to try it out !!
Doesn't look like it does, though... :-(
Orpheus
James Coupe
<orphe...@free.fr> writes:
>> I'd go for....
>>
>> Fatal Hesitation
>
>The name isn't right, you must choose a body part.
That doesn't seem necessary.
Assuming there aren't any in LotN, I could certainly imagine Aim cards
in future expansions that allowed for you doing unusual, non-body part
things. For example, a feint with a melee weapon or a distracting shot
with a ranged/gun strike. A feint might give you an additional strike
with the weapon with +2 strength, a distracting shot might let you
change range or force a second round of combat, or something. Seems
perfectly reasonably within the scope of an Aim card.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Orpheus
>>>
>>> Fatal Hesitation
>>
>>The name isn't right, you must choose a body part.
>
> That doesn't seem necessary.
>
> Assuming there aren't any in LotN, I could certainly imagine Aim cards
> in future expansions that allowed for you doing unusual, non-body part
> things.
Well then, they'd have to get some other name. Aim means exactly that :
choose a body part, or at least something a character has on him / is
holding (but Hand takes care of that I guess). Any other use wouldn't
deserve the "Aim" name.
> For example, a feint with a melee weapon or a distracting shot
> with a ranged/gun strike. A feint might give you an additional strike
> with the weapon with +2 strength, a distracting shot might let you
> change range or force a second round of combat, or something. Seems
> perfectly reasonably within the scope of an Aim card.
No. It seems perfectly reasonable for a Feint card. Not for an Aim card.
------
Orpheus
----------------
Top of Ban / Fix List : PTO, Champion, Memories of Mortality.
Blooded Sand
I aim at your vehicles wheels, at your sanctuary's electrical supply
box, at your storage depot's gas main...
Seems perfectly reasonable... :)
atomweaver
news:1189034754.5...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
>> The Imbued also use weapons a often (as they can equip with them
>> without an action and aren't overly concerned about the Improvised
>> Flame Thrower exploding...)
>
> Grrrrr. Humans who don't mind being set on fire. >_<
> (Sorry, didn't want to bring it up again....)
>
Heh. I guess its tougher to remember "stop, drop, and roll" when you're
under the influence of Rotschrek :-)
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
Rehlow
> > I see guns in both competitive and casual play all the time. I see melee
> > weapons a lot less often, but guns show up enough to justify the
> > inclusion of anti-weapon tech in pretty much any deck worthwhile.
>
> Sure, if you see guns a lot, then it's ok. But if you see them only
> semi-regularly or less, it's not worth it IMO. I'm the only player
> who regularly plays with weapons in my social group, and I might see
> maybe 5% of tournament decks with guns in them. Plus if I'm taking
> combat to a tournie, I usually figure that I'll be able to out muscle
> opportunistic guns anyway which is where most guns at a tournie come
> from, as there are very few cel/gun decks that I see at tournies, the
> combat is more likely to be potence/animalism/thaumaturgy.
>
Those disciplines already have pretty good anti-weapons available to
them. With potence, if you can catch them at close, Immortal Grapple,
then pound them to torpor while they can't use their weapon. Animalism
has Drawing Out the Beast, Terror Frenzy and Caine Hordes to deal with
weapons. Thaumaturgy can largely ignore non-celerity guns by stealing
as much blood lost to damage with Theft of Vitae. Now that any combat
has an anti-weapon card, maybe those decks will feel safer at a
tourney.
> YMMV, but generally I still feel that this card isn't worth slotting
> in at the expense of other cards.
>
Time will tell, but I am going to give it a try.
Later,
~Rehlow
Shockwave
> Time will tell, but I am going to give it a try.
>
> Later,
> ~Rehlow
Besides, there needs to be a few rubbish cards. Otherwise, what will
they fit all the single boosters we occasionally buy with? *Grin*
Orpheus
> box, at your storage depot's gas main...
> Seems perfectly reasonable... :)
Variants :
Aim : Your Momma.
Aim : Your Goldfish
Aim : Rollex watch
Aim : Nuclear Plant
Aim : LSJ's Portable Computer
Aim : White Wolf's advertising department's head. Wait, who ?
--------
Orpheus
Orpheus
> them. With potence, if you can catch them at close, Immortal Grapple,
> then pound them to torpor while they can't use their weapon.
And if you can destroy the gun on the one occasion where you succeed at
doing that, isn't it much better ?
I think that Beast or Theo wouldn't mind too much if their opponent lost his
strength even if he doesn't get disarmed right away, and the card is more
polyvalent thanks to its use against weapons.
>> YMMV, but generally I still feel that this card isn't worth slotting
>> in at the expense of other cards.
Could be.
> Time will tell, but I am going to give it a try.
Might work.
--------
Orpheus, wait and see.
James Coupe
<orphe...@free.fr> writes:
>Well then, they'd have to get some other name. Aim means exactly that :
>choose a body part, or at least something a character has on him / is
>holding (but Hand takes care of that I guess). Any other use wouldn't
>deserve the "Aim" name.
Aim means to target or direct something in a particular direction, or
towards a particular target. It doesn't have any inherent meaning that
requires body-parts. There's nothing stopping me aiming my gun at the
wall behind you, for example, or shooting at the vehicle you're on, the
chandelier above you, the tyre on your car, the apple resting on your
head, or whatever. Many examples of such targeting can be found in
action movies.
Nothing about the word "Aim" necessitates any body parts being targeted.
SPORE
> It's cornercase, really only useful against weapon decks, but how
> often do you see weapons?
mostly confined to ivory bows, crusader swords, etc used by imbued.
another strong archetype is still celerity/guns. this makes both of
these less effective, althoughcel/guns usually carries enough combat
to toss it to stop the aim. it does give us disciplineless trap
combos, most useful for weens & allies. won't surprise me if imbued
can also find a way to (ab-) use this card as well.
and then, on to "aim":
though it doesn't necessitate a particular body part, it is a combat
card term (afawk) so aiming your combat could easily be construed as
picking a body area. i began to wonder if Disarm and Decapitate might
both be considered "aim" cards now; they could be included with new
text in the Giov starter. unlikely as this may seem, far less likely
could be Backstab, Coagulate Blood, Fast Hands, and Pulled Fangs.
Disarm and Pulled Fangs would be good in this case, to prevent Target
Hand/combo with either. however, seems uber-unlikely b/c of their
timing.
john spore mage
"The blood of these whores is killing me!" - Andy Warhol's Dracula
J
> mostly confined to ivory bows, crusader swords, etc used by imbued.
> another strong archetype is still celerity/guns.
Well I refute your claim that CEL/guns is a strong archtype. It is
fun, but not strong.
J
> Combat
> Aim [new combat type card]. Play when choosing a strike
>
> The opposing minion may discard two combat cards to cancel this card. If any
> damage from this strike is succesfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he
> or she gets -1 strength this action, and you may destry a weapon he or she
> has. A minion may play only one aim each strike.
How would this interact with Rowan Ring/Wooden Stake?
I'd assume that Minion A declares strike with Aim, Minion B declares
strike with Rowan Ring/Stake. Minion A goes to torpor but the Ring/
Stake is burned?
Is this correct?
James Coupe
<spore...@hotmail.com> writes:
>and then, on to "aim":
>though it doesn't necessitate a particular body part, it is a combat
>card term (afawk) so aiming your combat could easily be construed as
>picking a body area.
Why would it be so difficult for me to aim my gun at a conveniently
located chandelier?
> i began to wonder if Disarm and Decapitate might
>both be considered "aim" cards now; they could be included with new
>text in the Giov starter.
Seems unlikely, if we follow the timing template for Target Hands that
they're played when choosing the strike. Disarm is played a lot later,
and Decapitate either is the strike or comes later. Also, Disarm
doesn't really apply to any one strike.
LSJ
For the stake, assuming the stake strike inflicts sufficient damage...
If A wants to destroy the weapon instead of receiving the stake, A can do so, sure.
For the Rowan Ring....
Aim doesn't do anything at all, except offer B the option to discard two combat
cards, since the Rowan Ring strike doesn't do any damage.
Orpheus
>> mostly confined to ivory bows, crusader swords, etc used by imbued.
>> another strong archetype is still celerity/guns.
>
> Well I refute your claim that CEL/guns is a strong archtype. It is
> fun, but not strong.
Refute all you want. Cel Guns is the one combat archetype that has been
making final tables for years, more so than weenie Pot or Tariq or Enkidu,
and comparable to Beast / Theo decks in its regularity.
--
Orpheus
>>
>> I'd assume that Minion A declares strike with Aim, Minion B declares
>> strike with Rowan Ring/Stake. Minion A goes to torpor but the Ring/
>> Stake is burned?
>> Is this correct?
>
> For the stake, assuming the stake strike inflicts sufficient damage...
>
> If A wants to destroy the weapon instead of receiving the stake, A can do
> so, sure.
>
> For the Rowan Ring....
>
> Aim doesn't do anything at all, except offer B the option to discard two
> combat cards, since the Rowan Ring strike doesn't do any damage.
I don't see why, if it's A who strikes : if he inflicts 1 damage he can
still destroy the ring while going to torpor, can't he ?
-------
Orpheus
LSJ
Ah, right. Read the question wrong. So, yeah, the aim "burn weapon" effect and
the transfer have the same window, so the acting Methuselah orders them.
adam....@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
"> Aim doesn't do anything at all, except offer B the option to
discard two combat
> cards, since the Rowan Ring strike doesn't do any damage.- "
Mass Reality?
LSJ
> Mass Reality?
Doesn't affect Rowan Ring, if that was the question you meant to ask.
Peter D Bakija
J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well I refute your claim that CEL/guns is a strong archtype. It is
> fun, but not strong.
I dunno--in blind competition, CEL/gun weenies isn't that out of the
realm of useful--it has weenies, it has a lot of actions, it is good at
fighting, it can deal with S:CE (Psyche!).
It isn't going to be the best deck ever, no, but as combat decks go,
they are still pretty good.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
"Find hungry samurai."
-The Old Man