To Reveal or Not To Reveal...
Scott Halvorson
A few new players joined my gaming circle who brought with them an
interesting rule about equipping and vote-calling. They said that when
a vampire equips, all the player does is tap the vampire and say that
the vampire is looking for a piece of equipment. He puts the card
face-down on the table until it is clear that the equip action is not
blocked. Then everybody else gets to see what the minion equipped
with. Same for calling a vote. A vampire taps and the player says a
vote is being called. We don't get to find out what the vote is until
it is clear that the vote is not being blocked.
We have always played where you say what the minion is equipping with
"Black Cat is looking for this Flak Jacket" or what the vote is "Rake is
going down to the council chambers. He says there is some Disputed
Territory."
What is the official tournament way of playing it? I don't have a
rulebook handy to thumb through to see how this is done. Also, how do
other players play, revealing what the action result will be or hiding
it until it is too late to do anything about it?
Scott Halvorson
halv...@cptc.wisc.edu
Robert F. Grau
Scott Halvorson wrote:
> A few new players joined my gaming circle who brought with them an
> interesting rule about equipping and vote-calling. They said that
> when
> a vampire equips, all the player does is tap the vampire and say that
> the vampire is looking for a piece of equipment. He puts the card
> face-down on the table until it is clear that the equip action is not
> blocked. Then everybody else gets to see what the minion equipped
> with. Same for calling a vote. A vampire taps and the player says a
> vote is being called. We don't get to find out what the vote is until
>
> it is clear that the vote is not being blocked.
Our group has used a house rule from time to time to do this for
equipment, allies, and retainers, (you had to announce whether it was a
piece of equipment, ally, or retainer). It adds an intersting strategy
twist. Against a Gangrel deck, for example, do you block the ally
because it could be a R.Garou, or let it go because it could be Gypsies,
for equipment, do you worry about a ivory bow popping up when the person
may just be seeking a flak jacket? You get my point. What normally
resulted is this: Your predator or prey would try to block everything (a
fear of the unknown thing) and you'd just take a couple of actions and
save your important seek/recruit/equip action for last.
I can't see playing votes that way... They are a much more important
part of the game, Since most allies, retainers, and equipment was
"fringe" on the importance scale, we used the house rule to spice up
play. I don't think voting needs any "spicing" it can be pretty gripping
without any "Praxis Seizure: Surprize!"
btw, If you didn't gather it from what I said, playing the face down way
is a house rule, not an official tournament rule. Officially, all cards
are played face up. (Beware, IANALSJ so I hope that's entirely accurate)
Thanks,
R. Garou, ahem, I mean R. Grau. :)
Lupus Australis
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Scott Halvorson wrote:
> A few new players joined my gaming circle who brought with them an
> interesting rule about equipping and vote-calling. They said that when
> a vampire equips, all the player does is tap the vampire and say that
> the vampire is looking for a piece of equipment. He puts the card
> face-down on the table until it is clear that the equip action is not
> blocked. Then everybody else gets to see what the minion equipped
> with. Same for calling a vote. A vampire taps and the player says a
> vote is being called. We don't get to find out what the vote is until
> it is clear that the vote is not being blocked.
>
> We have always played where you say what the minion is equipping with
> "Black Cat is looking for this Flak Jacket" or what the vote is "Rake is
> going down to the council chambers. He says there is some Disputed
> Territory."
>
> What is the official tournament way of playing it? I don't have a
> rulebook handy to thumb through to see how this is done. Also, how do
> other players play, revealing what the action result will be or hiding
> it until it is too late to do anything about it?
Our group always plays according to official rules: When you declare an
action, you must immediately play the card that allows you to take that
action. All cards are played face up, so that card title and text are
immediately available to all players.
Lupus Australis
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James Coupe
In article <3511F7...@cptc.wisc.edu>, Scott Halvorson
<halv...@cptc.wisc.edu> writes
>A few new players joined my gaming circle who brought with them an
>interesting rule about equipping and vote-calling. They said that when
>a vampire equips, all the player does is tap the vampire and say that
>the vampire is looking for a piece of equipment. He puts the card
>face-down on the table until it is clear that the equip action is not
>blocked. Then everybody else gets to see what the minion equipped
>with. Same for calling a vote. A vampire taps and the player says a
>vote is being called. We don't get to find out what the vote is until
>it is clear that the vote is not being blocked.
I've played that. When we first started playing Jyhad, the rules never
clarified that aspect and we just played it that you didn't find out
what the action was (you knew it was equip, but not what was being
equipped) until after declaring blocks. We didn't even make the player
place the card face down. Later, we made the player place the card face
down. However, things like master cards, combat cards, action
modifiers, reactions were played face up. You simply didn't know what
was being done in a vote, equip, retain or ally action. Now, though I
haven't played with my play group for a while, everything is declared.
It makes life easier that way and more enjoyable. I've played with
people who make you play EVERY card face down and simply say "I'm doing
a (D) action against X" - is it a Bum's Rush? A Mind Numb? etc.
Personally, I really, really hate that. It pisses me off greatly when I
know a) how the game should be played and b) that it wasn't just
invented for V:TES because Americans were stupid (the defence of that
play style used by one of the players I know who advocates it). But
this is the group who don't accept that it isn't Jyhad any more, and let
blood go over capacity from steals etc.
>
>We have always played where you say what the minion is equipping with
>"Black Cat is looking for this Flak Jacket" or what the vote is "Rake is
>going down to the council chambers. He says there is some Disputed
>Territory."
Well, I'd just have said "Black Cat equips a Flak Jacket" but this IS
the correct way to do it. Virtually everything about an action is
declared when yu play it. I can't think of anything which isn't off
hand, so you know what card Carlotta is fetching, for instance, ISTR.
>
>What is the official tournament way of playing it?
Everything is revealed.
>I don't have a
>rulebook handy to thumb through to see how this is done. Also, how do
>other players play, revealing what the action result will be or hiding
>it until it is too late to do anything about it?
Reveal everything. It saves a lot of arguments later and it gives
everyone a chance. New players aren't likely to be able to guess that
what action you're doing so they don't know whether to block or not. If
they see everything, they can make up their own mind. If you advise
them based on a face down card, you're probably going to be accused of
manipulating them or tutoring them based on what you want out of the
game rather than what's best for them.
--
James Coupe (change "nospam" to "obeah" to reply by e-mail)
You were my strength when I was weak. You were my voice when I couldn't speak.
You were my eyes when I couldn't see. You saw the best there was in me. Lifted
me up when I couldn't reach. You gave me faith because you believed. I'm
everything I am because you loved me.
L. Scott Johnson
James Coupe <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Well, I'd just have said "Black Cat equips a Flak Jacket" but this IS
>the correct way to do it. Virtually everything about an action is
>declared when yu play it. I can't think of anything which isn't off
>hand, so you know what card Carlotta is fetching, for instance, ISTR.
Correct - only without the "virtually". Everything - absolutely everything -
about the action is declared when the acting minion taps to take the
action. Political Actions excepted, as per rules: you name the vote:
"Kine Resources Contested", "Banishment", or "Autarkis Persecution";
but do not set the terms until the actual voting process begins (i.e.,
the action remains unblocked).
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | You are in a maze
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | of UUCP connections,
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | all alike.
Scott Halvorson
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> James Coupe <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >Well, I'd just have said "Black Cat equips a Flak Jacket" but this IS
> >the correct way to do it. Virtually everything about an action is
> >declared when yu play it. I can't think of anything which isn't off
> >hand, so you know what card Carlotta is fetching, for instance, ISTR.
>
> Correct - only without the "virtually". Everything - absolutely everything -
> about the action is declared when the acting minion taps to take the
> action. Political Actions excepted, as per rules: you name the vote:
> "Kine Resources Contested", "Banishment", or "Autarkis Persecution";
> but do not set the terms until the actual voting process begins (i.e.,
> the action remains unblocked).
>
are
retrieving from the ash heap, as well as the Necromancy card "Whispers
of
the Dead", if that is the correct name for it, that does the same thing
as Carlotta does? I suppose, by the above arguments, that the retrieved
card must be named, or it is like "Carlotta is equipping with something,
but you don't find out unless it is unblocked." Here, it is "Carlotta
is
retrieving this Bonding card from the ash heap." If this is the case,
my
frined's Giovanni deck will need a little more work. (-:
LSJ
Scott Halvorson wrote:
>
> L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> >
> > James Coupe <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
> > >Well, I'd just have said "Black Cat equips a Flak Jacket" but this IS
> > >the correct way to do it. Virtually everything about an action is
> > >declared when yu play it. I can't think of anything which isn't off
> > >hand, so you know what card Carlotta is fetching, for instance, ISTR.
> >
> > Correct - only without the "virtually". Everything - absolutely everything -
> > about the action is declared when the acting minion taps to take the
> > action. Political Actions excepted, as per rules: you name the vote:
> > "Kine Resources Contested", "Banishment", or "Autarkis Persecution";
> > but do not set the terms until the actual voting process begins (i.e.,
> > the action remains unblocked).
> >
> Is the part about Carlotta correct, that you have to say which card you
> are
> retrieving from the ash heap, as well as the Necromancy card "Whispers
> of
> the Dead", if that is the correct name for it, that does the same thing
> as Carlotta does? I suppose, by the above arguments, that the retrieved
> card must be named
Yes, which is what I meant by "correct".
Everything - absolutely everything - about the action is declared when
the acting minion taps to take the action.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
daniel frey
Scott Halvorson wrote:
>
> L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> >
> > James Coupe <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
> > >Well, I'd just have said "Black Cat equips a Flak Jacket" but this IS
> > >the correct way to do it. Virtually everything about an action is
> > >declared when yu play it. I can't think of anything which isn't off
> > >hand, so you know what card Carlotta is fetching, for instance, ISTR.
> >
> > Correct - only without the "virtually". Everything - absolutely everything -
> > about the action is declared when the acting minion taps to take the
> > action. Political Actions excepted, as per rules: you name the vote:
> > "Kine Resources Contested", "Banishment", or "Autarkis Persecution";
> > but do not set the terms until the actual voting process begins (i.e.,
> > the action remains unblocked).
> >
I think Vast Wealth is an exception, which states I will rifle through
my deck to find the first piece of equipment. I often used that lack of
knowledge to pull out an ivory bow or sengir dagger which happens to be
the only piece of equipment in the deck. People always try and block the
ivory bow, but people rarely block the vast wealth action.
LSJ
> > > about the action is declared when the acting minion taps to take the
> > > action. Political Actions excepted, as per rules: you name the vote:
> > > "Kine Resources Contested", "Banishment", or "Autarkis Persecution";
> > > but do not set the terms until the actual voting process begins (i.e.,
> > > the action remains unblocked).
>
> I think Vast Wealth is an exception, which states I will rifle through
> my deck to find the first piece of equipment. I often used that lack of
> knowledge to pull out an ivory bow or sengir dagger which happens to be
> the only piece of equipment in the deck. People always try and block the
> ivory bow, but people rarely block the vast wealth action.
It works the way you describe, but this is not an exception. The complete
action is: VampA is going to take an action to equip with the first peice
of equipment I find in my library (working down from the top), whose cost
will then be paid, and I will then shuffle my library. (card text).
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
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