What is The Grandest Trick Good for?
Gomi no Sensei
Action Modifier
Kiasyd
Burn Option
2 blood
Only usable when an action is announced.
Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
vampire, clan or discipline.
Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of this
post) produces the following list:
Ambush
Arson
Bum's Rush
Computer Hacking
Guard Duty
Rave
Violation of Trust
Bleed
Hunt
Equip (things that don't require a clan)
Employ:
Faithful Servant
Ghoul Escort
Ghoul Retainer
J. S. Simmons, Esq.
Jackie Therman
Marijava Ghoul
Mr. Winthrop
Tasha Morgan
Recruit:
Akhenaten, the Sun Pharaoh
Arcanum Investigator
Hell Hound
Mehemet of the Ahl-i-Batin (Mage)
Order of Hermes Cabal
Rafastio Ghoul
Talaq, the Immortal
Vagabond Mystic
Wendell Delburton (Hunter)
Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios
(with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing
Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as
to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability.
Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker
exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything.
What am I missing?
gomi
--
Blood, guts, guns, cuts
Knives, lives, wives, nuns, sluts
Reyda
"Gomi no Sensei" <go...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com...
> The Grandest Trick
> Action Modifier
> Kiasyd
> Burn Option
> 2 blood
> Only usable when an action is announced.
> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
> vampire, clan or discipline.
How strange ! i was asking myself the same question just a few hours ago.
Well, i admit that there's nothing cool to do with Grandest trick.
> Ambush > Bum's Rush
you have stealth anyway... And you don't want to be burned as you are
fighting like a mere ally !!!
> Arson
you have haunt which is better =)
> Computer Hacking
with a Laptop equipped, this can be nice ? =)
> Bleed
not very interesting since you can't play modifiers...
> Hunt
you cannot. Hunting requires a vampire
> Equip, Employ & Recruit:(things that don't require a clan)
yes sir =)
fairly intersting too ...
The best thing you can do ? ?
GO BURN A PATH IN PLAY !!
you can't be blocked and don't take damage since you are not a vampire when
the action resolve. period.
reyda
Frederick Scott
>
> The Grandest Trick
> Action Modifier
> Kiasyd
> Burn Option
> 2 blood
> Only usable when an action is announced.
> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
> vampire, clan or discipline.
Why you try loading this guy up with bleed modifiers (e.g. Laptop,
Tasha Morgan, J.S. Simmons, PULSE OF THE CANAILLE, etc.), maybe even
start with an inner circle member who has +2 bleed to begin with.
Use TGT for an unblockable bleed.
> Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios
> (with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder
I see you thought of it, too. Just, why stop at pulsing?
Don't forget the Left for Dead! (Question: what happens if he dies and gets
saved by Left for Dead? One life becomes one blood again next turn and play
the card as you would on an ally?)
> Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker
> exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything.
Once the bleeder has his modifiers, you have a one-moving part bleed deck.
Of course, you'll get crushed by a prey with things like Renegade Garous
or Muddles. Or bleed-bounce.
Fred
The Nosferatu Stuff
> Action Modifier
> Kiasyd
> Burn Option
> 2 blood
> Only usable when an action is announced.
> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
> vampire, clan or discipline.
>
> Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of
this
> post) produces the following list:
>
> Ambush
> Arson
> Bum's Rush
I sure wouldn't want to rush anyone without my disciplines, and with the
threat of burning up if I his zero life.
I guess you could do strange ally only things in combat? Like....uhm...gain
1 life from vag. myst. And you are protected from agg damage?
>
> Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios
> (with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing
> Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as
> to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability.
>
> Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker
> exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything.
>
> What am I missing?
Well, you could use up all those Malleable Visage that are cloging your
hand. Or someone can toss a cloak over for you, now other allies need +1
intercept to get you(rough) Use it to burn smiling jack/brainwash/etc.
When you just need to bleed for one? You cannot be redirected while you are
an ally(only effects vampires)
--
Aaron
The Nosferatu Stuff
The Fanboy
> GO BURN A PATH IN PLAY !!
> you can't be blocked and don't take damage since you are not a vampire when
> the action resolve. period.
There's one other aspect to it.
Aggravated damage is now the same as normal damage. If you know the
action is going to result in a combat situation where aggravated
damage is inevitable (going up against Thetmes, Basilia, etc), you can
now be assured that one agg will not send your vampire to torpor. You
could knock an empty Thetmes into torpor without having to worry
(overmuch) about being sent there yourself.
Fanboy
Ethan Burrow
On 12 Dec 2001 20:15:20 -0500, go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote:
>Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of this
>post) produces the following list:
<snip>
>Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios
>(with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing
>Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as
>to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability.
>
>Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker
>exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything.
>
>What am I missing?
Ummm, maybe the special secret note just for me?? :-)
Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin
saa...@yahoo.com
http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/
Uriel
What about putting on a vampire Secure Haven and then play a Return to
Innocence with the Grandest Trick?
Gomi no Sensei
Ethan Burrow <saa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Organization: Road Runner - Texas
>
>On 12 Dec 2001 20:15:20 -0500, go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote:
>
>>Some digging at Monger (see SPECIAL NOTE FOR ETHAN BURROW at the end of this
>>post) produces the following list:
>
><snip>
>
>>Call me short of imagination, but it's hard to come up with scenarios
>>(with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing
>>Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as
>>to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability.
>>
>>Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker
>>exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything.
>>
>>What am I missing?
Oh, yeah. It's 'Methuselah,' not 'Mathusaleh' or whatever bog-rotting
abomination of a spelling you've got on all the BL cards. Go fix0r,
please.
gomi
btw, nice work on getting the disc. symbols on all the splits. congrats!
hamdamcwa
2 actions to set up an Unblockable one at your convenience --- and it
can't get DI'ed. A slow, but cheap, version of horrific Countenance.
DH
Luis Duarte
Deck _without_ Allies...
Simple thrown in some Memories of Mortality, like 10, and Bum's Rush
your targets using The Grandest Trick to transform your vampire into a
powerful ally.
Use Trap, Dead-End Alley and Fake Out and pray that your opponent
isn't using environmental damage or Steal Strikes...!
Regards,
.- Luis Duarte
- - -
Powerbase:Lisbon-[http://planeta.clix.pt/vampire]
go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com>...
Marc G.
> Action Modifier
> Kiasyd
> Burn Option
> 2 blood
> Only usable when an action is announced.
> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
> vampire, clan or discipline.
>
Just because I know it'll come up, a Kiasyd playing The Grandest Trick
and subsequently burning is *not* considered "an ally you control that
was burned since your last turn" for purposes of Compel The Spirit,
correct?
Marc G.
Brad Ward
> Action Modifier
> Kiasyd
> Burn Option
> 2 blood
> Only usable when an action is announced.
> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
> vampire, clan or discipline.
You could use Vagabond Mystic to add a life to your new "ally" assuming he
is not at max life capacity.
You could also do the oh so many D actions to things out on the table.
Tobias Loehr
Nothing. That's the trick, haha!
mostly harmless
Gomi no Sensei <go...@panix.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com...
> The Grandest Trick
> Action Modifier
> Kiasyd
> Burn Option
> 2 blood
> Only usable when an action is announced.
> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
> vampire, clan or discipline.
>
> (with the possible exception of a Pulsed bleeder cashing in an existing
> Spying Mission) where one of these actions is all that worthwhile as
> to be worth 2 extra blood for the unblockability.
>
> Given that the Kiasyd have access to stealth (obt/nec) and blocker
> exclusion (dom/nec), I'm not sure what TGT does for them, if anything.
>
> What am I missing?
Aside from destroying an annonying intecept or other location with Arson or
burn an Atonemnet or one of those nasty path cards, I think it can be very
useful for bleeding. Ok, you can't use any disciplines, but there's always
Computer Hacking, Laptops, Tasha Morgan, J.S. Simmons and maybe Inveraray,
Scotland (I'm not sure if you still get the bleed bonus once you stop being
a vampire). Even when used for bleed of just 3 (e.g. Computer Hacking +
Lapop Computer - depending on the decks you play against bleeding for more
than 3 can be a risk anyway, when Archon Investigations are commonly used) I
think it can very well be worth the 2 blood, given that it makes the action
unblockable if your prey doesn't have any allies and - contrary to all the
other 'unblockable-cards' I can think right now - of does *not* send you to
torpor.
I found it to be a nice addition to a bleed oriented Kiasyd deck.
M.
"So you're saying you're going to bleed me for three and there's nothing I
can do about it?"
LSJ
It was a game-winner at one of our pre-release events - the defender with 2
pool didn't block the initial bleed in order to block the dominator, but
the dominator (a Kiasyd) pulled the Grandest Trick and ousted him anyway
with a bleed of 1.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Pat Ricochet
>> Action Modifier
>> Kiasyd
>> Burn Option
>> 2 blood
>> Only usable when an action is announced.
>> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
>> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
>> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
>> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
>> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
>> vampire, clan or discipline.
I hate to be repeating that which is available in other threads, but it
wasn't clear to me whether or not you can do this:
Bleed with Computer Hacking.
Conditioning at superior, while announcing the action.
THEN, play The Grandest Trick, for a bleed of 5 unblockable by vampires,
total cost of 3 blood.
What exactly does "the duration of the action" mean? "From here on,
till the end of the action" or "Better not have played any of those cards
with little squares on the side already, bub?"
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
LSJ
>
> >> The Grandest Trick
> >> Action Modifier
> >> Kiasyd
> >> Burn Option
> >> 2 blood
> >> Only usable when an action is announced.
> >> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
> >> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
> >> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
> >> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
> >> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
> >> vampire, clan or discipline.
>
> I hate to be repeating that which is available in other threads, but it
> wasn't clear to me whether or not you can do this:
>
> Bleed with Computer Hacking.
> Conditioning at superior, while announcing the action.
> THEN, play The Grandest Trick, for a bleed of 5 unblockable by vampires,
> total cost of 3 blood.
Not legal. GT must be played when you announce the action. Conditioning
cannot be played during the announcement - it is played later.
> What exactly does "the duration of the action" mean? "From here on,
> till the end of the action" or "Better not have played any of those cards
> with little squares on the side already, bub?"
The former.
You could squeeze other "as announced" modfiers in there before the GT,
like Seduction.
Pat Ricochet
>> till the end of the action" or "Better not have played any of those cards
>> with little squares on the side already, bub?"
>
> The former.
> You could squeeze other "as announced" modfiers in there before the GT,
> like Seduction.
Purely for cycling, right? ...since you can't play Seduction on allies,
and no vampires will be blocking the action after Grandest Trick is played.
(Or a REALLY heavy Direct Intervention environment, I guess)
LSJ
Right. It was merely the first "as announced" modifier that popped into my head.
Used for illustrative purposes only.
BernieTime
>> Action Modifier
>> Kiasyd
>> Burn Option
>> 2 blood
>> Only usable when an action is announced.
>> Vampires cannot block this action. This acting vampire is treated
>> as a mortal ally for the duration of the action (cannot spend or
>> burn blood, cannot use Disciplines, will burn if reduced to 0 life,
>> etc.). The vampire's blood represents his or her life while he or she
>> is an ally. Only usable on an action that doesn't require a
>> vampire, clan or discipline.
>I sure wouldn't want to rush anyone without my disciplines, and with the
>threat of burning up if I his zero life.
>I guess you could do strange ally only things in combat? Like....uhm...gain
>1 life from vag. myst. And you are protected from agg damage?
You could always play a Memories of Mortality, then Bum's Rush
a Vampire followed up with a Trap. Toss in a few lucky blows if you like.
Then after the target is whooped into torpor, steal it with an Unblockable
Grave Robbing. Next turn, well Golconda would be nice..
Of course, you didn't hear that from me..
BernieTime
GreySeer
> >threat of burning up if I his zero life.
> >I guess you could do strange ally only things in combat?
Like....uhm...gain
> >1 life from vag. myst. And you are protected from agg damage?
>
> You could always play a Memories of Mortality, then Bum's Rush
> a Vampire followed up with a Trap. Toss in a few lucky blows if you like.
>
> Then after the target is whooped into torpor, steal it with an Unblockable
> Grave Robbing. Next turn, well Golconda would be nice..
>
> Of course, you didn't hear that from me..
Hahah, I do like the Memories of Mortality angle, that's pretty amusing :)
Maybe I can work Kyasid into an allies deck :)
Shaun McIsaac
? ?? What exactly does ?the duration of the action? mean? ?From here on,
? ?? till the end of the action? or ?Better not have played any of those cards
? ?? with little squares on the side already, bub??
? ?
? ? The former.
? ? You could squeeze other ?as announced? modfiers in there before the GT,
? ? like Seduction.
?
? Purely for cycling, right? ...since you can't play Seduction on allies,
? and no vampires will be blocking the action after Grandest Trick is played.
? (Or a REALLY heavy Direct Intervention environment, I guess)
Prefect Clarity is fine, just give THA skill cards to them :)
Halcyan 2
>
>2 actions to set up an Unblockable one at your convenience --- and it
>can't get DI'ed. A slow, but cheap, version of horrific Countenance.
Except that Sunrise Service requires a Sabbat *vampire*. =P
Halcyan 2
GreySeer
"Brad Ward" <wa...@nevada.edu> wrote in message
news:e5b93701.01121...@posting.google.com...
I'm pretty sure was answered elsewhere by LSJ but you would have asked this
before you would have seen the answer with the google issues recently. LSJ
said no, becasue a vampire that has played The Grandest Trick does not have
"starting life" to be below.
LSJ
> Just because I know it'll come up, a Kiasyd playing The Grandest Trick
> and subsequently burning is *not* considered "an ally you control that
> was burned since your last turn" for purposes of Compel The Spirit,
> correct?
Right, since by the time you want to play Compel the Spirit, he's no
longer an ally. (cf. Death Pact).
LSJ
> go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<9v8vf8$n2d$1...@panix1.panix.com>...
> > The Grandest Trick
> is not at max life capacity.
No, since no ally has a "max" life. The GT vampire has not "starting life",
so cannot meet the requirements on VM.
Halcyan 2
>so cannot meet the requirements on VM.
Well, Shambling Hordes kinda have a "max" life of 3 or 4.... =P
Halcyan 2
LSJ
It is played at nec => 3
It is played at NEC => 4
mostly harmless
Uriel <galama...@hotmail.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
e8b60e8d.01121...@posting.google.com...
>
> What about putting on a vampire Secure Haven and then play a Return to
> Innocence with the Grandest Trick?
Return to Innocence card text:
"(D) Bleed. If you successfully bleed your prey for one or more, put this
card on the acting vampire. Burn this card if this vampire loses any blood
or goes to torpor, or if your prey is ousted. During your next untap, this
vampire is removed from the game and your prey burns X pool, where X is the
capacity of this vampire."
Since Return to Innocence refers to an acting *Vampire*, I don't think
that's a legal combo.
LSJ
It also costs 4 blood, which means that it's not possible, by explicit card
text on Grandest. But yes, card text indicates that it must be a vampire
who's acting.