Official VEKN Nosferatu Newsletter for October 2005
Peter D Bakija
So inspired by a recent thread with Oderich Wendergass regarding the use of
Nosferatu with Dominate, and what with the upcoming Infernal Plague
Storyline tournament, this month I decided to get the band back together, if
you will. Waaaayyyy back in the day, I was a pioneer in the realm of the
"Superstar" deck (without even realizing it at the time), by spending an
awful lot of time trying to make competitive decks that only worked if I got
Marty Lechtansi out. These decks came with varying levels of success--one
got into the finals of a tournament but then I think I was ousted by Josh
Duffin anyway; a couple of them could put up a fight. Most of them were
dubious, at best. This month I present the newest version of the old
standby, just in time for Nosferatu Storyline, ahem, Dominance.
So Marty Lechtansi was one of the original wrecking machines of a superstar
vampire. Yeah, ok, he is currently kind of underpowered in relation to other
9 point vampires, but he comes with POT, OBF, and DOM backed up by ani and
for, giving him a good spread of combat abilities, potential for multi
action with Freak Drive, and you simply can't go wrong with superior
Dominate. And still, he is wearing a Mickey Mouse watch and coming to eat
you. Mix him up with another generally under appreciated vampire, Judah, and
you form the core of a deck with strong combat and bleed offense, and good
bleed defense that comes from the combination of Rat's Warning and
Deflection. Mix in pretty boy Shane Grimald, and the deck kind of builds
itself. Thus, I present to you:
"The Deck That Only Works If I Get Out Marty Lechtansi!", Mk. IX
Crypt:
5x Marty Lechtansi (9) POT, OBF, DOM, ani, for
2x Judah (6) POT, dom, ani
1x Lisette Vizquel (6) POT, DOM
2x Shane Grimald (4) pot, dom, ani
1x Laurent Valois (4) obf, dom, ani
1x Sammy (4) pot, obf, ani
Library:
4x Blood Doll
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Giant's Blood
1x Minion Tap
1x Storm Sewers
1x Slum Hunting Ground
1x The Labyrinth
1x Fame
1x Dominate
1x Fortitude
8x Govern the Unaligned
8x Deflection
4x Threats
8x Torn Signpost
6x Undead Strength
4x Earth Shock
2x Disarm
6x Spying Mission
4x Cloak the Gathering
8x Rat's Warning
8x Superior Mettle
4x Harass
4x Taste of Vitae
1x Ancient Influence
1x Reins of Power
Again, the crypt kind of builds itself--5x Marty Lechtansi for the, what,
93% some odd chance of having at least one in your opening draw; 2 each of
Judah and Shane; and then 3 back up vampires in Lisette with POT and DOM,
Laurent for a mini bleed bounce machine, and oddly enough, Sammy is actually
worth using due to the large discipline spread in the deck. As my intention
is to use this deck in the Infernal Plague storyline event, I have
restricted myself to a 75% Nosferatu crypt (9 of 12), so while it might be
handy to have a couple other non Nosferatu in the crypt (Anvil is certainly
a reasonable possibility), this is probably the best crypt I can put
together.
The Master selection is nothing surprising--there is some pool/blood
management; a couple Dreams of the Sphinx for influence acceleration first
and hand cycling second; some skill cards; a Fame; some useful Nosferatu
locations in the Labyrinth for permanent stealth and the Storm Sewers,
making it seem very unattractive to block Marty when he comes to bleed.
In the minion card selection, there are the obvious strong Dominate cards in
the Govern for influence acceleration and bleed, Deflection to avoid getting
bled to death, and Threats for some free bleed punch--one could argue that
Threats is a sub-optimal choice (and I, for one, usually would), but as I'll
generally have Marty with DOM in play, the free, un-Archon Investigatable
bleed of 3 seems an attractive option. Next is a significant, but not
overwhelming combat chunk with Torn Signpost, Undead Strength, Superior
Mettle, and Taste, and then some Earth Shocks to take down maneuver monkeys.
A sideline of Obfuscate allows you to get necessary actions through and the
Spying Missions double as extra bleed action and allows for responsible
bleeding if Marty gets bounced somewhere. 8 Rat's Warning mix very well with
the Deflections for significant bleed defense (and let Marty untap and
Deflect multiple bleeds by himself). The two vote cards are a minior fringe
element thrown in due to the crypt having a not insignificant vote presence
(8 of the vampires come with 1 vote)--there isn't a great deal of vote power
in the deck, but with the Edge and a couple votes on the table, you might be
able to push one or both of them through, especially as Ancient Influence
and Reins of Power tend to be votes that usually will benefit someone else
on the table (as well as benefiting you for playing with a 9 point vampire)
who will often help you pass them. A few Harass Rush actions to takeout
vital or vulnerable minions finish off the deck. The obvious missing element
in the deck are some Freak Drives, but really, with limited actions possible
(bleed, Govern at superior, a few Rushes, and few votes), most of the time,
a Freak would tend to just get played to cycle the card, and with the
defensive untaps, the deck will usually be ok anyway.
The deck plays pretty much as a (much maligned, at least by me :-) Bruise
Bleed deck--get out Marty as quickly as possible, Govern at superior a
couple times to get out help on the cheap, bleed significantly and mangle
folks who block you. The combat and Rush element isn't overwhelming, but
should dissuade most folks from blocking or Rushing you, and in a pinch can
take out a necessary vampire (like your predator's biggest vampire right
before you call Reins of Power or the Famous vampire your prey controls). A
bleeding predator shouldn't be much of a worry with consistent untap and
Deflection capability.
The biggest flaw of the deck is that it has virtually zero defense against a
vote heavy predator, with no intercept, few votes, and limited Rush.
Sometimes you just get hosed, but even then, you might be able to bleed out
your prey before you get whacked by a serious vote predator. There isn't
much that can be done about this flaw, so the best thing to do is just not
to worry about it (i.e. the Hope They Don't Have Blasters defense), and
accept that once and a while you'll just be tooled. The rest of the time,
however, the deck should do pretty well.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Rehlow
Peter D Bakija wrote:
> Official VEKN Nosferatu Newsletter for October, 2005.
>
> "The Deck That Only Works If I Get Out Marty Lechtansi!", Mk. IX
>
> Crypt:
> 5x Marty Lechtansi (9) POT, OBF, DOM, ani, for
> 2x Judah (6) POT, dom, ani
> 1x Lisette Vizquel (6) POT, DOM
> 2x Shane Grimald (4) pot, dom, ani
> 1x Laurent Valois (4) obf, dom, ani
> 1x Sammy (4) pot, obf, ani
>
> Library:
> 4x Blood Doll
> 2x Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1x Giant's Blood
> 1x Minion Tap
> 1x Storm Sewers
> 1x Slum Hunting Ground
> 1x The Labyrinth
> 1x Fame
> 1x Dominate
> 1x Fortitude
>
Hmm. 4x Blood Doll, 1x Minion Tap? I guess you might get a bleed deck
behind you and you'll want to recoup from Marty as quickly as possible,
but do you think you'll actually draw the 1 Minion Tap when you need
it? Early game, I'd think you'd want to leave your vamps with some
blood to do stuff like Govern down and take a hit in combat. I guess a
mid game Minion Tap after a big Taste of Vitae could pay off. I'd
rather just play a 5th Blood Doll for consistency.
+1 Depravity
+1 Guardian Angel
These are great for bruise and bleed, since you need that many less
cards in each combat for it to be effective. I don't know what masters
you can take out though.
> 8x Govern the Unaligned
> 8x Deflection
> 4x Threats
I think these would be better as 4x Bondings. At inf dom, both are +1
bleed. The +1 stealth instead of +1 bleed can save you from using that
Spying Mission for stealth and then getting bounced, unable to play
Spying Mission at superior when you really want to. This deck likes
getting blocked though, so maybe Threats is the way to go. Personally I
would throw caution to the wind and play Conditioning over Threats
though (which makes the inf dom much scarier).
> 8x Torn Signpost
> 6x Undead Strength
I prefer few strike cards for bruise and bleed, prefering more Torn
Signpost and press off Immortal Grapple or Harass and come around for
another smack.
> 4x Earth Shock
So your "I hope they don't bring blasters" theory also applies to
maneuvers as well? I guess this is probably better than 4 maneuvers for
this deck. Haven't tested Earth Shock enough to know if I like it.
Oh yeah, Storm Sewers helps with the close range combat, forgot about
that.
> 2x Disarm
> 6x Spying Mission
> 4x Cloak the Gathering
> 8x Rat's Warning
> 8x Superior Mettle
Maybe less depending on what kind of hit back you expect. Protecting
your one man show vampire is important though.
> 4x Harass
> 4x Taste of Vitae
> 1x Ancient Influence
> 1x Reins of Power
No Freak Drives? I don't know where to make room, but it would be nice
to leverage Marty's fortitude a little more.
>
I don't know if my changes make it any better, but they fit my personal
tastes. Good luck.
Later,
~Rehlow
Peter D Bakija
> Hmm. 4x Blood Doll, 1x Minion Tap? I guess you might get a bleed deck
> behind you and you'll want to recoup from Marty as quickly as possible,
> but do you think you'll actually draw the 1 Minion Tap when you need
> it?
With the Deflections, a bleed deck isn't that big of a deal, and Minion Tap
is often risky--to really make it pay off, you need to tap big, and with one
minion who is likely to get in fights and needs blood to do stuff (Govern,
Deflect, prevent damage, etc), Tapping for enough to make it worth while is,
ya know, risky. I figure one is reasonable in a pinch, but relying on them
is asking for trouble in this deck.
> I think these would be better as 4x Bondings.
I addressed that (as usually, I'm the first one to make that argument :-).
The stealth from Bonding isn't that huge (as there is Obfuscate stealth and
The Labyrinth), and the free bleed for 3 on Marty is not unattractive.
> Personally I
> would throw caution to the wind and play Conditioning over Threats
> though (which makes the inf dom much scarier).
True, but it also makes Marty get killed by AI, which is never fun. And
again, the blood cost of stuff (Deflections, Governs) makes the freeness of
the Threats seem pretty inviting.
> I prefer few strike cards for bruise and bleed, prefering more Torn
> Signpost and press off Immortal Grapple or Harass and come around for
> another smack.
Also reasonable, but I figure sometimes the hit for 5 will do everything you
need (and avoid additional strikes...) And Marty can press on his own, which
is why the 8 Signposts.
> So your "I hope they don't bring blasters" theory also applies to
> maneuvers as well?
Yep. If someone is going to be really maneuvery, there isn't enough space to
be able to compete, so why even worry about it? Between the Earth Shocks and
the presses from the Harass and Marty, light manuvers shouldn't be much of
an issue (i.e. a dude with a gun), and heavy manuvers will kill you in any
case.
> No Freak Drives? I don't know where to make room, but it would be nice
> to leverage Marty's fortitude a little more.
I hit on that too--there really aren't *that* many different actions to
take, so unless there are a lot of Freaks (so you always have one in
conjunction with two useful manuvers), they aren't going to pay of all that
much--more than not, I'll have 1 good action (Govern at superior; a bleed;
or a Harass) and a Freak. Assuming the action is successful (due to only
reliable for, rather than FOR), I'll Freak for a blood and be untapped with
not that much else to do. So really, I figure fitting in 4-6 Freak Drives
isn't going to help that much. Once and a while I might miss them, but
mostly, I'll have one action, hope it pays off, and then use Rat's Warning
to untap for defense.
Thanks for the comments!
J
No Grapples or even Thoughts Betrayed? How do you handle S:CE? Even
with Disengage becoming more popular, I would have thought that these
were mandatory for anyone playing close range potence bash.
-- J --
Peter D Bakija
> No Grapples or even Thoughts Betrayed? How do you handle S:CE?
You don't. And you don't worry about it. 'Cause the deck does not exist to
kill things. Combat is to disuade blocking and Rush. And pick on targets of
opportunity. If someone has a lot of block and a lot of Majesty, you might
get hosed. But it isn't that big of a deal most of the time.
> Even
> with Disengage becoming more popular, I would have thought that these
> were mandatory for anyone playing close range potence bash.
I never thought I'd see the day where folks were convincing *me* that I
needed Immortal Grapple :-)
J
converted - you know all the reasons why they could or should be there,
but I think even if the deck isn't designed to kill things you want to
be able to bash something once in a while.... And for that, I'd have
at least 2.
If you never drop a grapple, people will be less scared of your
deterent combat. As soon as you drop one and bash a guy, people see
your combat as the deterent you want it to be.
-- J --
Peter D Bakija
> Fair enough. I mean, I know it's sort of like preaching to the
> converted - you know all the reasons why they could or should be there,
> but I think even if the deck isn't designed to kill things you want to
> be able to bash something once in a while.... And for that, I'd have
> at least 2.
Yeah, maybe. I figure that, especially now, combat is as common as (if not
more so) than Majesty, and consequently, I run into S:CE much less than one
would think. But do run into people hitting folks for a lot. It is totally a
toss up, sure, but from what I have been running into recently, sort of
generic hit back action tends to be a deterrent in and of itself.
> If you never drop a grapple, people will be less scared of your
> deterent combat. As soon as you drop one and bash a guy, people see
> your combat as the deterent you want it to be.
Maybe. Ya know--if they can Majesty a lot, they can Majesty a lot, and a
couple Grapples are unlikely to help anyway.
James Coupe
<pd...@lightlink.com> writes:
>J wrote:
>> No Grapples or even Thoughts Betrayed? How do you handle S:CE?
>
>You don't. And you don't worry about it. 'Cause the deck does not exist to
>kill things. Combat is to disuade blocking and Rush. And pick on targets of
>opportunity.
How does the deck get into combat, though? 4 Harass?
"disuade blocking" sounds like old-school (bad) bruise and bleed which
you were very negative about a few months back. Hey-hey, it's a hand
full of combat I can't play because no-one will block me.
I'm not saying that the deck is bad, but I'm trying to work out how the
deck lines up alongside your comments in, say:
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/1f4bf8
c4c08b9a1f>
If you mix in 3 or 4 Bum's Rushes, say, you are gambling on
having one at the right time to save yourself from horrible hand
jam and allwing yourself to Rush minions that need to die. If
you mix in 8-10, you aren't so much a Bruise and Bleed deck as
you are a Rush deck.
Historically, the Bruise and Bleed deck (B+B) has been typified
by having a bleed discipline (Presence or Dominate) backed by a
combat discipline (Potence or Thaumaturgy). It intends on
bleeding for substantial amounts per action (let's say 3, from
Legal or Govern or Conditioning or something), and if it gets
blocked, it has theoretically enough combat to mess up the
blocker, to disuade people from blocking.
If you have enough combat, however, to reliably torporize folks,
you are going to get hand jammed something fierce if no one ever
blocks you--you go to bleed for 3 a couple times, you succeed in
bleeding or you get bounced, and then you spend the next few
turns bleeding for one per action with 2 or 3 minions hoping
someone blocks you while you wildly discard to find the
next bleed action.
You can mix in Bum's Rushes to the deck, hoping to be able to
proactively Rush to avoid this, but if you don't have enough of
them, they become a total prayer angle (i.e. the same thing
happens as above, but you are discarding wildly hoping to find a
Rush or a bleed action). If you have enough of them (8+)
Aside from a clutch of bounce (which is very welcome, of course!), I'm
trying to see what sets this design apart from the deck designs you were
so critical of.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Jeroen Rombouts
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> schreef in bericht
news:pApZG5aQ...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
My guess is: the 2 Dreams of the Sphinx :-) Or, as Peter said, a high-combat
metagame.
But as Relow said: i'd prefere to remove the strike cards too. A hit for 3
is mostly enough of a deterent, especially if you add more disarms. It's
the short chain combat thing again. The less cards you have to play the
better. For a non-rush deck, I'd think that Torn Signpost + maneuver
(preferably SbtN)+ disarm is enough. Less cards to jam on.
jeff...@pacbell.net
All I'd really suggest is some intercept, either with Raven Spies or
one of the various media outlets. Since you're working Superior Mettle
anyway, why not toss in one Animalism skill card for Marty so he can
also get extra presses in while blocking with his rodent friends?
11-caps calling AIs and RoPs are even more fun. ;)
Jeff
pd...@lightlink.com
James Coupe wrote:
> Aside from a clutch of bounce (which is very welcome, of course!), I'm
> trying to see what sets this design apart from the deck designs you were
> so critical of.
With the thick, rich stench of Irony, it isn't. At all. It has some
bleed. And some combat. And a bit of rush. And bounce. And ya know,
Dominate. So maybe it'll work :-)
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> But as Relow said: i'd prefere to remove the strike cards too. A hit for 3
> is mostly enough of a deterent, especially if you add more disarms.
Yeah, trading in a few Undead Strength for a few more Disarms might be a
viable swap.
Peter D Bakija
> I'm not saying that the deck is bad, but I'm trying to work out how the
> deck lines up alongside your comments in, say:
Now that I have more time to respond...
Yeah. the deck pretty much completely lines up with everything I say is bad
about B+B decks. Kinda. But in my mind, the (slightly significant)
differences come from:
-Bleed Bounce. 8 Deflections go a *long* way towards making any deck more
playable.
-Not much reliance on combat--there really aren't that many combat cards,
'cause the deck isn't so concerned with actively torping folks, as opposed
to just kinda doing damage when folks Rush me and/or disuading casual block
attempts.
-Enough light stealth to be able to switch simply into S+B mode against some
opponents.
-Did I mention the Dominate?
But yeah, it is, pretty much, a deck that might very well fall on its face
like I'd expect an old school Brujah B+B deck to. But we'll see :-)