RE: Tournament Loot & Goodies
Juggernaut1981
I've been thinking of organising some Loot for tournaments around my
playgroup and I'm hitting the age-old problem of being a small
purchaser talking to manufacturers/wholesalers. Their idea of a few
tins suitable for VTES decks is... about 600-2000... mine is closer
to... 50. Similar idea for things like blood counters... their idea:
4kg of plastic bits (about 10lb)... mine is closer to 1kg (2lb)
because then I'd only have maybe 1000 counters... instead of nearly
5000 counters.
So:
Are there other event organisers out there in the VTES community who
would like to have a tin with a big VTES logo on the side to give out
as prizes?
Or little plastic bits (probably shaped like cut gemstones) to hand
out as Blood Counter prizes?
If you're all interested enough, and willing to buy them off me (or
maybe those nice supplier type people like Lasombra... and I haven't
discussed it with him privately), I may just buy a bunch and then
distribute them to those who want them.
I would be doing it for as close to cost as I can manage.
The Lasombra
>So:
>Are there other event organisers out there in the VTES community who
>would like to have a tin with a big VTES logo on the side to give out
>as prizes?
This is certainly the type of thing that I would V:EKN would be
addressing. I don't speak for them though.
Getting official logos on products is going to be problematic though.
DragonFire Lasercrafts is my preferred supplier.
http://www.dragonfiresigns.com/white_wolf_splash.htm
They have a license to use WW logos/etc. so they are your best bet for
getting custom WW stuff done as they already have the art.
>Or little plastic bits (probably shaped like cut gemstones) to hand
>out as Blood Counter prizes?
Counters used to be part of the tournament kits, back in the day.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Felt-Backed-Blood-Counters-x15-Camarilla-Symbol-/360302387360?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e3b220a0
DragonFire did counters for the NAC 2009.
http://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/prizepics.htm
http://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/images/NAC-Edges.jpg
Juggernaut1981
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:31:11 -0800 (PST), Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> >So:
> >Are there other event organisers out there in the VTES community who
> >would like to have a tin with a big VTES logo on the side to give out
> >as prizes?
>
> This is certainly the type of thing that I would V:EKN would be
> addressing. I don't speak for them though.
>
> Getting official logos on products is going to be problematic though.
>
>
> They have a license to use WW logos/etc. so they are your best bet for
> getting custom WW stuff done as they already have the art.
>
> >Or little plastic bits (probably shaped like cut gemstones) to hand
> >out as Blood Counter prizes?
>
>
> DragonFire did counters for the NAC 2009.http://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/prizepics.htmhttp://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/images/NAC-Edges.jpg
Lasombra,
Do you think it would be worth talking to DragonFire about etching/
printing/engraving say a TriSnakes onto a 10th Anniversary-style tin?
I have looked at the tokens, and they're interesting but I'm worried
about the cost... then Beggers can't be choosers in those
situations...
The Lasombra
>> >Are there other event organisers out there in the VTES community who
>> >would like to have a tin with a big VTES logo on the side to give out
>> >as prizes?
>> This is certainly the type of thing that I would hope V:EKN would be
>> addressing. I don't speak for them though.
>> Getting official logos on products is going to be problematic though.
>> DragonFire Lasercrafts is my preferred supplier.
>> http://www.dragonfiresigns.com/white_wolf_splash.htm
>> They have a license to use WW logos/etc. so they are your best bet for
>> getting custom WW stuff done as they already have the art.
>> >Or little plastic bits (probably shaped like cut gemstones) to hand
>> >out as Blood Counter prizes?
>> Counters used to be part of the tournament kits, back in the day.
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Felt-Backed-Blood-Counters-x15-Camarilla-Symbol-/...
>> DragonFire did counters for the NAC 2009.
>> http://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/prizepics.htm
>> http://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/images/NAC-Edges.jpg
>Lasombra,
>Do you think it would be worth talking to DragonFire about etching/
>printing/engraving say a TriSnakes onto a 10th Anniversary-style tin?
>I have looked at the tokens, and they're interesting but I'm worried
>about the cost... then Beggers can't be choosers in those
>situations...
I would expect it to be $10-20 per tin, if you compare to the price of
their flasks or water bottles.
http://www.dragonfiresigns.com/store.php?crn=219
I don't know where to source the unmarked tin. That would be a bit
more of the challenge. DragonFire has been very open to doing more
work.
The Lasombra
>Do you think it would be worth talking to DragonFire about etching/
>printing/engraving say a TriSnakes onto a 10th Anniversary-style tin?
We did talk to Ultra-Pro about this. They were willing, with a
minimum order of 1 million tins.
It was a bit more than I was willing to invest.
Brum
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:31:11 -0800 (PST), Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> >So:
> >Are there other event organisers out there in the VTES community who
> >would like to have a tin with a big VTES logo on the side to give out
> >as prizes?
>
> This is certainly the type of thing that I would V:EKN would be
> addressing. I don't speak for them though.
>
> Getting official logos on products is going to be problematic though.
>
>
> They have a license to use WW logos/etc. so they are your best bet for
> getting custom WW stuff done as they already have the art.
>
> >Or little plastic bits (probably shaped like cut gemstones) to hand
> >out as Blood Counter prizes?
>
>
> DragonFire did counters for the NAC 2009.http://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/prizepics.htmhttp://www.thelasombra.com/NAC2009/images/NAC-Edges.jpg
I agree with Jeff.
The new VEKN Director of Marketing should be person to contact, as
soon as he comes out.
You may need a consent from CCP to use their property, so Oscar (the
future liaison between VEKN and CCP) should be able to say what we can
and cannot do for free with their property.
About counters, the metallic ones that Ginés got us in Palma for the
EC'09 are awesome. If it is possible do make them a bit smaller, it
would be perfect.
Tiago
Juggernaut1981
Lasombra,
Here is the listing I found for them.
http://www.atomicon.com.au/html/rectangle_tin_boxes.html
But also from a quick check I found:
http://www.tinboxaus.com.au/product.detail.php?i=148
The killer for me is the production run amount (5k units minimum), but
they can print and possibly guys like DragonFire could get them in
bigger bulk or from some other distributor in China we don't know
about...
http://www.tinboxaus.com.au/product.detail.php?i=148
The Lasombra
>> I don't know where to source the unmarked tin. That would be a bit
>> more of the challenge. DragonFire has been very open to doing more
>> work.
>Lasombra,
>Here is the listing I found for them.
>http://www.atomicon.com.au/html/rectangle_tin_boxes.html
>But also from a quick check I found:
>http://www.tinboxaus.com.au/product.detail.php?i=148
I'm not very metric.
Did you measure that box against a deck of cards?
Or against the 10th Anniversary Tin?
How does it compare?
>The killer for me is the production run amount (5k units minimum), but
>they can print and possibly guys like DragonFire could get them in
>bigger bulk or from some other distributor in China we don't know
>about...
>http://www.tinboxaus.com.au/product.detail.php?i=148
I doubt that DragonFire would have the capital (or desire) to make
that type of investment.
It seems that TinBox also have them available unprinted for smaller
quantities. (Either Black or Silver)
This one seems to compare very favorably to the 10th Anniversary Tins
on my shelf: 73 x73 x 98 mm (H)
http://www.tinboxaus.com/product.php?productid=16232&cat=254&page=1
http://www.tinboxaus.com/product.php?productid=16233&cat=254&page=1
Getting them from Australia to Indiana (to Dragonfire) would add a
bit. Then whatever the printing charge would be, then shipping again,
probably to me in Atlanta. Seems like we'd be up over $10 pretty
quickly even when they start at ~$1.50 each.
I did find a few places in the US that do similar things, they also
want a 5,000 piece minimum for custom pieces. I'm not convinced that
there are 5,000 V:TES players that would buy one.
Perhaps a few other people will chime in on this thread to indicate
their interest.
Juggernaut1981
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 19:37:57 -0800 (PST), Juggernaut1981 wrote:
>
> I'm not very metric.
> Did you measure that box against a deck of cards?
> Or against the 10th Anniversary Tin?
> How does it compare?
When I measured a 102-in-sleeves deck I got the dimensions:
68mm W x 55mm D x 92mm H
That would allow you to put them into the box standing on their short
side.
> I doubt that DragonFire would have the capital (or desire) to make
> that type of investment.
>
> It seems that TinBox also have them available unprinted for smaller
> quantities. (Either Black or Silver)
>
> This one seems to compare very favorably to the 10th Anniversary Tins
> on my shelf: 73 x73 x 98 mm (H)
See dimensiona above for a deck. I haven't measured a 10th Anniversay
Tin, but I suspect they'd be very similar size.
Sure, I can understand that 5000 units is potentially a dealbreaker
for a company.
From the descriptions they gave of lead times, delivery times, etc.
They are not manufacturing the tins in Australia. Seems like they are
being made in SE Asia, probably China. So there would probably be a
way to get a batch of them delivered to the US direct, reducing the
postage element.
> Getting them from Australia to Indiana (to Dragonfire) would add a
> bit. Then whatever the printing charge would be, then shipping again,
> probably to me in Atlanta. Seems like we'd be up over $10 pretty
> quickly even when they start at ~$1.50 each.
>
> I did find a few places in the US that do similar things, they also
> want a 5,000 piece minimum for custom pieces. I'm not convinced that
> there are 5,000 V:TES players that would buy one.
I'm not thinking of direct sales, but I'm sure it is more in your
interest. I was thinking of them as loot for winning tournaments like
Qualifiers, Champs, Storylines, etc. Hence more generic branding like
an etched tri-snake logo without too much that is distinctive.
>
> Perhaps a few other people will chime in on this thread to indicate
> their interest.
Putting this out into the open, I think will be a great way to provide
feedback to VEKN about the sorts of things Organisers are thinking of
and what the players want their Organisers to get for them.
I'm also wondering if there were people interested in making (or
designing... points towards people like Heather Kreiter) clan themed
sleeves in small lots (say 24s or 30s). Might be another avenue we
could look at for loot for winning competitions but also as a possibly
money-spinner for whatever VEKN becomes.
salem
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 16:14:32 -0800 (PST), Juggernaut1981 wrote:
>
>>Do you think it would be worth talking to DragonFire about etching/
>>printing/engraving say a TriSnakes onto a 10th Anniversary-style tin?
>
> We did talk to Ultra-Pro about this. They were willing, with a
> minimum order of 1 million tins.
were they holding their pinky finger at the corner of their mouth when they
said it?
> It was a bit more than I was willing to invest.
geez man. at least TRY and support the scene.
--
salem
FYI, that last bit was intended to be ridiculously sarcastic. I hope people
know well enough that the Lasombra's committment to this game is phenomenal.
The Lasombra
>So:
>Are there other event organisers out there in the VTES community who
>would like to have a tin with a big VTES logo on the side to give out
>as prizes?
Andrew,
I got 10 of these in this afternoon:
http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=524
The external size matches the 10th Anniversary Tins.
The internal size works well for a deck or two, but it won't fit a
sleeved deck, the sides are just too tight.
It seems likely that this type of tin is what you would want, and
then you would want to apply a sticker or etching to it to personalize
it for a tournament prize (or door prize at a larger event).
They'll ship as few as 1 to a customer, so if V:EKN Marketing wanted
to try a few out, it wouldn't be a complete waste of time.
I don't think they would sell well in most of the European playgroups
I've met, they all tend to sleeve their decks and I think the fit is
too tight and they'd be unhappy with them.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
Brum
If VEKN ordered enough of them, could it be possible for them to
customize the size?
The worse thing that could happen to such a question is receiving a
No, so it's worth the asking, methinks.
Mr Marketing Director?
Cheers!
Tiago
Juggernaut1981
Lasombra,
Very big thanks for doing that.
At very worst, they'll make a really nice container for pool & edge
for somebody.
Thanks
Juggernaut1981
Tiago,
When we were digging around, they wouldn't really consider custom-made
options unless you would order around 5,000 units. While that many is
great, I don't know if we could then on-sell 5,000 of them as prizes
around the world. It is probably out of VEKN's scope at the moment to
do a custom-batch. On the flip-side, if the players world-wide showed
appetite for them, it may convince VEKN that 5,000 is something they
would sell out and make a decent return on.
salem
the one thelasombra linked is Dimensions: 2.9" width x 3.8" height
they have a slightly taller one:
http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=525
Dimensions: 2.8" width x 4.3" height.
and another:
http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=526
Dimensions: 3.4" width x 5.1" height
this last one should then fit sleeved decks (sideways), and might even have
enough height to hold decks sleeved in the cheap clear floppy sleeves that
are a few millimetres higher than a card.
Maybe the vekn could just get a batch of these, and a batch of stickers to
go with them, rather than custom paint jobs? that should help keep viability
and pricing down.
In fact, I might buy a few and just glue some pics on, and cover with
contact (that clear book-cover sticky plastic stuff for school books).
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
The Lasombra
>the one thelasombra linked is Dimensions: 2.9" width x 3.8" height
>they have a slightly taller one:
>http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=525
>Dimensions: 2.8" width x 4.3" height.
>and another:
>http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=526
>Dimensions: 3.4" width x 5.1" height
Height isn't an issue, even with the sleeves.
It was the 2.9x2.9 square that was the problem.
I could force a deck into the tin if it had cheap clear sleeves.
I wouldn't enjoy it, and would be worried about the cards bending.
Juggernaut1981
have
enough height to hold decks sleeved in the cheap clear floppy sleeves
that
are a few millimetres higher than a card.
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
I could fit you sideways... *ROWR*....
*blinks then hides*
salem
but the latter also has an extra .5" width. that should make a sleeved deck
fit ok though, right?
they don't do orders outside the US direct from their website, I'd have to
email them. I might try and get on it today.
The Lasombra
> >>http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=526
> >>Dimensions: 3.4" width x 5.1" height
> > Height isn't an issue, even with the sleeves.
> > It was the 2.9x2.9 square that was the problem.
> but the latter also has an extra .5" width. that should make a sleeved deck
> fit ok though, right?
The 526 ID would definitely have more than enough room for the cards.
I'd be concerned that there was too much room, and that the cards
would rattle around, leading players not to use them.
You might try contacting the local Australian guys.
This one seems to compare very favorably to the 10th Anniversary Tins
on my shelf: 73 x73 x 98 mm (H)
http://www.tinboxaus.com/product.php?productid=16232&cat=254&page=1
http://www.tinboxaus.com/product.php?productid=16233&cat=254&page=1
salem
while I quite like the black one, the minimum order of one carton (96 tins)
at $155 puts them a little out of my purchasing range. :(
Juggernaut1981
That's the problem I had.
librarian
How about $75 each and 48 tins for each of your playgroups down in
Australia. Wouldn't that hurt less?
Juggernaut1981
I know I'm not a regular-tournament-organising Prince... (I'm not a
Prince, just a keen player)
I'm pretty sure Salem isn't the same... (Think Salem *used* to be a
Prince but isn't anymore...)
Plus, they seem like the things that get given to winners of
tournaments or Qualifiers for a Continental or similar. It would
probably take me something like 3 or 4 years to offload 48 of them...
Haze
New VEKN tournament rule: everybody's a winner!!
Except whoever's in last place, they are the only one to not get a
tin. Also public humiliation and a permanent place in the VTES hall of
shame.
Don't want to be humiliated? Better get a VP.
We can move SO many tins this way.
YY
I'm good for a three-way split if you two are still interested.
I can either pay for shipping, or have a friend bring it over when
they come back.
By the way, do you know of a Shane Hill(?) from Sydney?
- YY
Juggernaut1981
Shane plays in my local playgroup.
It's an option YY. I think we'd need to discuss a bit more out of the
newsgroup with Salem.
salem
My issue is "what if they're not a good fit?".
I don't want to fork out that kind of money on a bunch of tins that might
not even be suitable. If I could buy one, or two, or 5, at a decent price
(<$15 or so?), see if they fit, then go for a case, I'd be fine. I'd work
out how to split the costs of a case after finding out if the actual tins
are any good or not for the purpose.
YY
Sounds good. Let us know again.
I check this newsgroup fairly irregularly these days. Maybe you can
email me. Or something.
- YY
YY
Cool. Maybe we can work something out with him (I think he travels a
bit to Singapore).
- YY
Juggernaut1981
Maybe we can just pester them for the inner-dimensions and then mockup
one from cardboard.
salem
well i emailled the US place that sells them singly. for international
shipments, it's a minimum US$1000 order, plus postage, and postage is often
more than the cost of the tins they said. so that's right out.
Kevin M.
> well i emailled the US place that sells them singly. for international
> shipments, it's a minimum US$1000 order, plus postage, and postage is
> often more than the cost of the tins they said. so that's right out.
Salem,
Buy me a plane ticket to Australia. I'll make the tins my "luggage". =)
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Juggernaut1981
Yeah, make the plane ticket out to "$1000 of tins" and KJM can come in
the suitcase...