Melbourne Fight Club II: Return of the Bride of Fight Club
mesh
and violent tendancies shall come to an apex in this perfect format
for such an occasion.
Where? Mind Games, 244 Swanston Street
When? Sunday the 11th of April, 11:30am -> 5:00pm
Rules? ANARCHY AHAHAHAHAAHAH
*ahem*
-60 Card deck limit
-2 players per game
-Deck must be combat orientated. That means that while the deck
might not be chock-a-block with actual combat cards, it should be
more or less full of cards that affect and incite combat.
-No dodges, no strike: combat ends and press-to-end cards.
If you are unsure if your deck fits within these guidelines, discuss
it here and I or other people will be more than happy to help out.
Regards,
Archbishop in waiting, Cameron.
David Cherryholmes
mesh wrote:
> -No dodges, no strike: combat ends and press-to-end cards.
"No dodges" is poo. I know you guys say "Hail to the King" on
pot/ani/for, but taking away dodge pretty much tells CEL to not bother
showing up.
--
--
David Cherryholmes
david.che...@duke.edu
XZealot
"David Cherryholmes" <david.che...@duke.edu> wrote in message
news:c4s0gc$2lt00v$1...@ID-209231.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> mesh wrote:
>
> > -No dodges, no strike: combat ends and press-to-end cards.
>
> "No dodges" is poo. I know you guys say "Hail to the King" on
> pot/ani/for, but taking away dodge pretty much tells CEL to not bother
> showing up.
Nah, What it means is that the Tremere are going to clean house.
In fact Tha/Cel would be the exact thing I would play. You can replace all
of your Psyches with Flashes. Don't forget the the Foul Blood either.
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
mesh
>
> > -No dodges, no strike: combat ends and press-to-end cards.
>
> "No dodges" is poo. I know you guys say "Hail to the King" on
> pot/ani/for, but taking away dodge pretty much tells CEL to not bother
> showing up.
>
> --
Well, obviously if you want to dome something funky with acrobatics,
then it's all good. But yes, this tournament is designed to be
absolutely brutal, so namby-pambying about with dodges is really just
delaying the inevitable. Of course, it might be more "convenient" for
your vampire to hit torpor later rather than now, but again, this
tournament is about nailing your testicles to the table and saying
"WHO WANTS SOME, BITCHES?!" And of course, additional strikes/card
cycling via Infernal Pursuit is all just golden.
Hollowboy
>
> > -No dodges, no strike: combat ends and press-to-end cards.
>
> "No dodges" is poo. I know you guys say "Hail to the King" on
> pot/ani/for, but taking away dodge pretty much tells CEL to not bother
> showing up.
>
> --
First, I love the idea, and am most keen to play it. However, I'm not
sure about the restrictions:
"Deck must be combat orientated. That means that while the deck
might not be chock-a-block with actual combat cards, it should be
more or less full of cards that affect and incite combat."
I tried this last time. I built a deck with lots of Mark of Damnation,
and not many combat cards. I got + 6 strength and 3 presses, then
stacked on with weenies and allies. It was heavy combat without many
actual combat cards.
Everyone complained. Including the organiser, who the week before had
approved the Mark of Damnation deck as being OK for the format (I
checked with him cos I hadn't played fight club before). Maybe I'm
just being bitchy, but it might actually *help* if you gave guidelines
about what fraction needs to be combat cards to qualify - so
afterwards, there's no excuse for anyone to complain.
"-No dodges, no strike: combat ends and press-to-end cards."
I 100% Agree with David Cherryholmes here. no dodge = poo. Big smelly
poo. I would go further, and say the whole lot is poo, for three
reasons...
1) David's reason - it hoses a bunch of viable combat decks. Examples
are:
DODGE - hoses "straight" Bruhaj: dodge / blur with +strength
PRESS TO END: Weapons. If you are relying on your Assault Rifle, you
need to be able to end combat then Payche! to defeat cards like Terror
Frenzy and Superior Mettle... or to end the foolishness against a trap
/ unflinching persistence deck... or just to reset your manoeuvres
(from guns and IR goggles).
STRIKE COMBAT ENDS: Neat trick decks like CEL THAU: Weather Control /
Stutter Step / Press (Pulled Fangs, Taste of Vitae) / Riposte. That's
a huge 7 points of damage (and combos well with Fame) - and it
qualifies as a combat deck by any reasonable description - but since
Stutter Step is a dodge and Riposte is a S:CE, it's not allowed...
2) that banned list doesn't address Kiss of Ra, Rotschreck, Obedience,
Illusions of the Kindred, Blood Brother Ambush, XYZ that I havent
thought of - which are all extra-rude in 2-player games, all end
combat (or prevent it happening) better than Majesty does, but which
are not S:CE.
I think rather than banning every one of these cards that you can
think of, you need to rely on people turning up to play for fun.
3) It makes Tzimisce pretty strong. And Cameron loves the Tzimisce :-)
Seriously, Tzim are gods at Rotschreck and mutual annhilation via
Blood of Acid. what are the biggest hosers of Rotschreck and Blood of
Acid?
Celerity (Psyche and dodges) and S:CE.
...so ban these, and it would be easier than usual to make a killer
Tzimisce deck.
You could play krazee "mutual annhilation" combat (Drawing out the
Beast, Carrion Crows, Blood of Acid, Body Arsenal / Breath of the
Dragon), and then hang onto a Reform Body, so you don't *any* risk of
your own vampires being burned.
Then drizzle it with red-hot Rotschreck cheese, and, by Crom! No man
could stand before you in battle.
...so I reckon you should drop or loosen these restrictions. As long
as people are playing combat, what does it matter what type they use?
Sorry if this seeems like criticism - I really am glad that you are
reviving fight club. It would just be neat to be able to build
something fun and strong, and that Jason can't beat without effort
(which was my criterion last time) and to know that *everyone* will
agree that the deck is fair for the event.
A couple of simple rules like:
"no stealth on bleed actions"
AND
"decks must contain at least 20 combat cards"
...would do it for me, without cutting out any options.
All IMO, and I will play no matter what the rules end up being.
mesh
This weekend's Fight Club has been cancelled. Check
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/melbournevtes/ for details and
also discussion of the rules.
Sorry for the mixup.
Cheers,
Cam.
t!MmY
Whatever happened to the "Storyline Crypt" rule?
I guess I might as well post my Fight Club rules here for comments.
http://www.geocities.com/the_timmy001/vtes/fightclubrules.html
-t!MmY
noodleboy
> and not many combat cards. I got + 6 strength and 3 presses, then
> stacked on with weenies and allies. It was heavy combat without many
> actual combat cards.
>
> Everyone complained.
Man, everyone complained because, while the combat theme was heavy,
you won all your games not by combat, but through "death of a thousand
cuts" style bleeds with your weenie horde.
Essentially, your deck was a weenie bleed deck - maybe not in design,
but that's how it won it's games. I think the idea of Fight Club is
more titanic struggle between a few key vamps. Jaroslav vs Karsh, mano
e mano style biffo. Who can lay the smack down best, not who can bleed
for lots.
Personally, I think there should be a couple of different rules for
fight club, namely:
1. No bleed. Win by pin fall [Fame, Tension pool loss] or submission
[not enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight with] only.
2. Tension in the Ranks starts in play, and cannot be removed by any
means.
As for no dodge, not sure about that. Fight Club is based more on a
"feel" than actually card restrictions.
> 2) that banned list doesn't address Kiss of Ra, Rotschreck, Obedience,
> Illusions of the Kindred, Blood Brother Ambush, XYZ that I havent
> thought of - which are all extra-rude in 2-player games, all end
> combat (or prevent it happening) better than Majesty does, but which
> are not S:CE.
Kiss of Ra and Obedience are not in any way combat related. Anyone who
included them in a deck should be ashamed to call it a Fight Club
deck. This is just common sense, surely?
Illusions, yeah well, Illusions is the one card I really expected to
see last FC and didn't [thankfully]. It's the one card I'd actually
consider banning from an FC tourney, since there is absolutley no
counter for it outside a DI.
BB ambush, Hidden lurker, etc, I don't see a problem with. Anyone with
a brain will be playing some kind of damage prevention or
uber-maneuvers in their deck, so not having a strike for the first
strike of the fight shouldn't really be a drama.
n
mesh
> and not many combat cards. I got + 6 strength and 3 presses, then
> stacked on with weenies and allies. It was heavy combat without many
> actual combat cards.
>
> Everyone complained. Including the organiser, who the week before had
> approved the Mark of Damnation deck as being OK for the format (I
> checked with him cos I hadn't played fight club before). Maybe I'm
> just being bitchy, but it might actually *help* if you gave guidelines
> about what fraction needs to be combat cards to qualify - so
> afterwards, there's no excuse for anyone to complain.
Well, I really don't see the problem with the deck. But I assumed that
everybody complained because you used a truckload of stealth cards and
ended up just bleeding them out....please correct me if I'm wrong.
[snip discussion]
I agree with all of it, and that's why the rules are open for
discussion. However, I think one thing needs to be straight:
***Your deck MUST be orientated around sending other vampires to
torpor IN COMBAT***
How you want to do this is your business.
> Celerity (Psyche and dodges) and S:CE.
I never suggested banning Psyche, FYI.
[snip rest of your HEATHEN comments ;)
> A couple of simple rules like:
>
> "no stealth on bleed actions"
> AND
> "decks must contain at least 20 combat cards"
>
> ...would do it for me, without cutting out any options.
>
> All IMO, and I will play no matter what the rules end up being.
Those two rules sound reasonable.
Cheers,
Cam.
David Cherryholmes
> Illusions, yeah well, Illusions is the one card I really expected to
> see last FC and didn't [thankfully]. It's the one card I'd actually
> consider banning from an FC tourney, since there is absolutley no
> counter for it outside a DI.
As much as I would like to see this belief persist, Telepathic Tracking
nerfs Illusions.
David Cherryholmes
Duke Radiology
P.E.T. Facility
(919) 684-7714
david.che...@duke.edu
Colin McGuigan
> 1. No bleed. Win by pin fall [Fame, Tension pool loss] or submission
> [not enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight with] only.
>
> 2. Tension in the Ranks starts in play, and cannot be removed by any
> means.
I think that these would solve any problem of needing to restrict the
library. If you can't bleed (and you can't vote, which I think was an
earlier rule) then it doesn't matter if the crypt contains Majesty or
dodges or whatnot. Either there'll have to be a plan to using them, or
they're simply postponing the inevitable. You got stealth? Either
you're going to use it to help you in your combat somehow (avoid
blockers jumping in the way, getting a key piece of tech) or its just
taking up space.
I would say, though, that maybe Fame would be too much of a powercard.
I draw Fame early and you don't? Huge advantage for me. Both of us
draw Fame? Advantage for neither of us.
Maybe better to say each side can always have a single non-contesting
Fame in play?
--Colin McGuigan
ThunderFoot
<magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote:
> noodleboy wrote:
>> 1. No bleed. Win by pin fall [Fame, Tension pool loss] or submission
>> [not enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight with] only.
>>
>> 2. Tension in the Ranks starts in play, and cannot be removed by any
>> means.
>
> I think that these would solve any problem of needing to restrict the
> library. If you can't bleed (and you can't vote, which I think was an
> earlier rule) then it doesn't matter if the crypt contains Majesty or
> dodges or whatnot. Either there'll have to be a plan to using them, or
> they're simply postponing the inevitable. You got stealth? Either
> you're going to use it to help you in your combat somehow (avoid
> blockers jumping in the way, getting a key piece of tech) or its just
> taking up space.
Sounds a good plan. Tension in the ranks encourages larger vampires too
(less pool loss
for them).
So what about Anarch Revolts and the like? Allowed? It's a reason for
combat
but the fact that it's killed by a vote is problematic.
> I would say, though, that maybe Fame would be too much of a powercard. I
> draw Fame early and you don't? Huge advantage for me. Both of us draw
> Fame? Advantage for neither of us.
Fame is a massive powercard in that case...
> Maybe better to say each side can always have a single non-contesting
> Fame in play?
The biggest vampire any player has is always considered famous?
> --Colin McGuigan
--
Nihil mutatem, omni delendum est...
Janne Hägglund
> Personally, I think there should be a couple of different rules for
> fight club, namely:
>
> 1. No bleed. Win by pin fall [Fame, Tension pool loss] or submission
> [not enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight with] only.
If there is no bleed, the losing player can just wait eleven turns while
his Arcane Library brings him a new Etrius to fight with...
Also, there is no Edge. Bad. The Edge was designed especially to prevent
"No, *you* go first!" standoffs.
How about...
"Any minion, tapped or not, enough intercept or not, can block a bleed."
Ultra-Violence galore. Stealth bleed becomes pointless. Tap and bleed
becomes pointless. Weenie bleed becomes pointless. But bruise and bleed
does *not* become pointless.
(You'd probably have to ban Ambrosius, though)
If you don't like bruise and bleed decks in the Fight Club, ban all bleed
boosting.
> 2. Tension in the Ranks starts in play, and cannot be removed by any
> means.
Nice. :-D
--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
Hollowboy
> everybody complained because you used a truckload of stealth cards and
> ended up just bleeding them out....please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> [snip discussion]
The deck did swarm, but it didn't look or act like a stealth bleeder.
When it did well, I got Anam the Devourer, Muddled vampire hunter,
Fame, Leather Jackets, 5 vampires and 5 Mark of Damnations into play.
No +bleed in there.
Truckload of stealth:
There *were* 8 or 9 stealth cards in it. However, they were included
so I could successfully play a mass of zero-stealth actions (10 or 11
Mark of Damnation, plus a couple of Summon the Serpent). Even had I
wanted to, I couldn't spare the stealth to use on bleeds...
Bleeding people out:
I didn't bleed any player unless they had a blocker available.
I made an exception once, against Steve V. After some initial losses
in the first few minutes, he spent most of the game avoiding combat.
He let most of my zero-stealth bleeds through when he had blockers
available, he never attempted any bleeds against me, he burned the
Haven Uncovered I played (too early) on one of his minions, he never
played any Havens of his own, or did any rushing. He was taking a very
long time over this non-combat, so we were still playing after
everyone else had finished. If I hadn't bled him out, the game would
have timed out, and his combat-avoidance and stalling would have been
rewarded with a draw. I chose not to let this happen.
I attempted to provoke combat, he attempted to avoid it - but I was
the one percieved as going against the spirit of Fight Club. Curse
those fuzzy value judgements.
I'm keen on a neat definition (like 20 combat cards), so I don't get
the smelly end of such judgements the next time we play Fight Club.
>
> I agree with all of it, and that's why the rules are open for
> discussion. However, I think one thing needs to be straight:
>
> ***Your deck MUST be orientated around sending other vampires to
> torpor IN COMBAT***
>
> How you want to do this is your business.
Yay! Cool. ALthough I imagine burning them is OK too :-)
>
> > Celerity (Psyche and dodges) and S:CE.
>
> I never suggested banning Psyche, FYI.
Oh sure, Psyche wasn't banned - but the cards you (originally) banned
or reduced in utility included Sideslip, Stutterstep, and other
dodges, Riposte, and the press utility of several cards - including
the inferior of Psyche!
Basically, these bannings hosed Celerity, so Payche! was hosed by
extension.
It's all academic now, of course, since you have un-banned those
cards.
>
> [snip rest of your HEATHEN comments ;)
>
> > A couple of simple rules like:
> >
> > "no stealth on bleed actions"
> > AND
> > "decks must contain at least 20 combat cards"
> >
> > ...would do it for me, without cutting out any options.
> >
> > All IMO, and I will play no matter what the rules end up being.
>
> Those two rules sound reasonable.
>
> Cheers,
> Cam.
Yay! But if Fight Club is cancelled this weekend, it doesn't really
matter so much anymore.
Craig
noodleboy
> his Arcane Library brings him a new Etrius to fight with...
Hence:
"Win by ... submission [not enough pool to pull out another vampire to
fight with] only."
ie, If you don't have enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight
with, RIGHT NOW, then you lose. No Arcane Library tomfoolery.
> Also, there is no Edge. Bad. The Edge was designed especially to prevent
> "No, *you* go first!" standoffs.
Fight Club is all about acting first. The acting minion gets to play
all his cards first - ie, sup Terror Frenzy, Shadow Step to set range,
etc, etc. It's advantageous to move, not stand still.
noodleboy
Hollowboy
> > I tried this last time. I built a deck with lots of Mark of Damnation,
> > and not many combat cards. I got + 6 strength and 3 presses, then
> > stacked on with weenies and allies. It was heavy combat without many
> > actual combat cards.
> >
> > Everyone complained.
>
> Man, everyone complained because, while the combat theme was heavy,
> you won all your games not by combat, but through "death of a thousand
> cuts" style bleeds with your weenie horde.
That would be a good point, if it were accurate.
First game, I smashed every one of Dave's minions, and he conceeded.
That happened in another game too (I think it was against Andy). No
swarm bleeding / thousand cuts required.
Against you, you may recall that when your Haven was Uncovered, I
rushed you several times a turn when I could have bled several times a
turn - and also that I *only* bled you when you had an untapped
blocker. I quite willingly gave up any chance I had to oust you via
bleeds, in favour of trying to beat your vampires to death.
The *only* turn in any game where I swarm bled (as in, I bled till he
was tapped, then kept bleeding) was against Steve V, and that was
because he had avoided combat and stalled for long enough so the game
would have timed out unless I bled him out.
You fought me, so I didn't swarm bleed you - it wouldn't have been in
the spirit of the game. Steve avoided combat and stalled, so I had two
options - let him stall the game to a draw, or bleed him out.
Would rewarding his combat-shy playstyle with a draw have been in the
spirit of FIght Club? I don't think so.
>
> Essentially, your deck was a weenie bleed deck - maybe not in design,
> but that's how it won it's games.
Again, that accounts for only 1 of 3 victories, and only to prevent
the game stalling to a draw. Did I weenie bleed you? No, I rushed
repeatedly, with +5 strength, or some ridiculous amount. I never bled
in preference to rushing, and I never bled when you were tapped out.
Think about it - Mark of Damnation & weenie bleed don't mix well - if
you tap too many minions bleeding, your opponent gets a chance to burn
off all the Mark of Damnations (unless you have a good hand of wakes).
I didn't lose all my Marks because I wasn't tapping out... my apparent
minion advantage was kinda balanced out by the crapness of playing
with MoD :-)
I think the idea of Fight Club is
> more titanic struggle between a few key vamps. Jaroslav vs Karsh, mano
> e mano style biffo. Who can lay the smack down best, not who can bleed
> for lots.
>
That's your own concept.
It may be somewhat conditioned by what cards you have access to.
Fatties seem to better with big good combos and rare cards - I
couldn't build either of the 2 fight club decks that you made:
Lasombra (ranged / Entomb) - requires multiple Entombment (and other
rares?)
PRO FOR THAU (unpreventable agg) - used the Skin of Night / Skin of
Marble combo, I believe. I only had 1 Skin of Marble. Also used
multiples of vampires that I only own 1 copy of.
I knew your decks were the ones to beat. I didn't have any way to make
fatties survive against them(*), but I could make small and expendable
vampires fight reasonably well against them. No surprises that it's
the route I chose, and will probably choose again.
> Personally, I think there should be a couple of different rules for
> fight club, namely:
>
> 1. No bleed. Win by pin fall [Fame, Tension pool loss] or submission
> [not enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight with] only.
>
If you can't bleed, how do you enter combat? Only with rush cards?
> 2. Tension in the Ranks starts in play, and cannot be removed by any
> means.
>
That's cute, but it does advance your personal vision of combat -
fatties. Why shouldn't, say, expendable Potence weenies get a chance?
Or a swarm of suicidal Tremere using a burst of Sunlight / Chantry
combo?
> As for no dodge, not sure about that. Fight Club is based more on a
> "feel" than actually card restrictions.
I like that point - but you feel yours and I'll feel mine :-)
>
> > 2) that banned list doesn't address Kiss of Ra, Rotschreck, Obedience,
> > Illusions of the Kindred, Blood Brother Ambush, XYZ that I havent
> > thought of - which are all extra-rude in 2-player games, all end
> > combat (or prevent it happening) better than Majesty does, but which
> > are not S:CE.
>
> Kiss of Ra and Obedience are not in any way combat related. Anyone who
> included them in a deck should be ashamed to call it a Fight Club
> deck. This is just common sense, surely?
Yes. I just thought it was odd to specifically ban S:CE as being anti
the concept, but not to ban Obedience and so on. Obedience is more
antithical to the concept... cos it's possible to use S:CE
aggressively (like a Riposte / Telepathic Tracking loop), but you
can't use Obedience aggressively.
(*) I suppose Grapple / Skin of Steel / Skin of Night with Lazverinus
or some other brute would have been a contender, but a very dull one.
Also, I wanted to make something that would suck horribly in any
context other than Fight Club :-)
Hollowboy
But if you can't bleed, what's that first action going to be?
That is - how do you get into combat? Rush cards only? How many rush
cards were played last time? I had a single Haven, and I don't recall
anyone else using any - they weren't necessary, cos usually every
bleed resulted in a fight... and nobody wants to have three rush cards
in their hand, the middle of a fight.
mesh
> But if you can't bleed, what's that first action going to be?
>
> That is - how do you get into combat? Rush cards only? How many rush
> cards were played last time? I had a single Haven, and I don't recall
> anyone else using any - they weren't necessary, cos usually every
> bleed resulted in a fight... and nobody wants to have three rush cards
> in their hand, the middle of a fight.
In a tournament all about fighting, with your deck usually containing
about 90% carnage, a 0 stealth bleed action is suprisingly effective
way to instigate combat.
"WHAT?! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?! BLEEDING ME?! I WAS BLOCKING SHITE
LIKE THIS WHILE YOU WERE STILL SUCKLING ON YOUR MOTHER'S TEAT!!!"
and so and so forth...
Hollowboy
Oh yeah. But Jason's suggestion (that I was responding to) was to
*ban* bleed:
1. No bleed. Win by pin fall [Fame, Tension pool loss] or submission
[not enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight with] only.
...and I'm just saying that there needs to be some sort of default
action.
If the default action is bleed, you have the situation you describe,
where bleeding = entering combat (usually).
ThunderFoot
>> > Also, there is no Edge. Bad. The Edge was designed especially to
>> > prevent "No, *you* go first!" standoffs.
>> Fight Club is all about acting first. The acting minion gets to play
>> all his cards first - ie, sup Terror Frenzy, Shadow Step to set range,
>> etc, etc. It's advantageous to move, not stand still.
>>
>> noodleboy
>
> But if you can't bleed, what's that first action going to be?
>
> That is - how do you get into combat? Rush cards only? How many rush
> cards were played last time? I had a single Haven, and I don't recall
> anyone else using any - they weren't necessary, cos usually every
> bleed resulted in a fight... and nobody wants to have three rush cards
> in their hand, the middle of a fight.
When you send a vampire to torpor or burn a vampire in combat you gain
the Edge.
The Edge may be sacrificed to rush another Methusaleh's minion as a direct
action.
Patrick van der Reest
> cameronr...@hotmail.com (mesh) wrote in message news:<90c8a193.04040...@posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > > But if you can't bleed, what's that first action going to be?
> > >
> > > That is - how do you get into combat? Rush cards only? How many rush
> > > cards were played last time? I had a single Haven, and I don't recall
> > > anyone else using any - they weren't necessary, cos usually every
> > > bleed resulted in a fight... and nobody wants to have three rush cards
> > > in their hand, the middle of a fight.
> >
> >
> > In a tournament all about fighting, with your deck usually containing
> > about 90% carnage, a 0 stealth bleed action is suprisingly effective
> > way to instigate combat.
> >
> *ban* bleed:
>
> 1. No bleed. Win by pin fall [Fame, Tension pool loss] or submission
> [not enough pool to pull out another vampire to fight with] only.
>
> ...and I'm just saying that there needs to be some sort of default
> action.
>
> If the default action is bleed, you have the situation you describe,
> where bleeding = entering combat (usually).
Of course, you run the risk that your prey eats the bleed and then
uses targeted rush (either with a card or with, say, Theo Bell) to
pound your famous guy into next year. No reason to risk a fight if you
can just pay 1 pool to avoid torpor. Which is why allowing bleed mods
etc is good: it forces people to defend as well as offend (pun
intended).
Regards,
Patrick
Columbus, OH
ThunderFoot
> On 7 Apr 2004 23:16:48 -0700, Hollowboy
> >
> > That is - how do you get into combat? Rush cards only? How many rush
> > cards were played last time? I had a single Haven, and I don't recall
> > anyone else using any - they weren't necessary, cos usually every
> > bleed resulted in a fight... and nobody wants to have three rush cards
> > in their hand, the middle of a fight.
>
> When you send a vampire to torpor or burn a vampire in combat you gain
> the Edge.
>
> The Edge may be sacrificed to rush another Methusaleh's minion as a direct
> action.
It doesn't really replace the need for a direct action, but it sets up
a nice additional dynamic...
You rush someone using the Edge, if you win you get it back, if you
fail _they_ get it and unless you have another way to initiate combat
your turn might be over and they gain ascendancy. I like the spirit of
things it invokes, that while you are winning you can keep on winning,
and when you aren't you have to stop.
If you're relying on the Edge for entering combat (in this scenario)
you can get stymied if you start losing, but if you aren't relying on
it then your combat options can be diminished as you hold rush cards
in hand waiting for when you lose.
The people wanting bleed modifiers to be allowed to promote
blocking... You could do it this way:
If someone does not succeed in blocking (including having no minions
able to block) then any loss of pool from bleeding is reduced to one.
If someone declines to block when they have a minion capable of doing
so they do not get the above protection.
Therefore stealth bleed or bleed boosting is reduced in efficiency and
the impetus to block is greatly increased. If you have a minion who
might go to torpor if they block then you _can_ choose to not do so,
but you're taking the risk of getting hammered.
Thunder.
Hollowboy
> >
> > That is - how do you get into combat? Rush cards only? How many rush
> > cards were played last time? I had a single Haven, and I don't recall
> > anyone else using any - they weren't necessary, cos usually every
> > bleed resulted in a fight... and nobody wants to have three rush cards
> > in their hand, the middle of a fight.
>
> When you send a vampire to torpor or burn a vampire in combat you gain
> the Edge.
>
> The Edge may be sacrificed to rush another Methusaleh's minion as a direct
> action.
Nicely thematic. And you could also add:
*You may only bleed if you do not control the edge, or if your
opponent has no ready minions*
...so the usual way to bleed twice a turn would be to bleed then rush
then bleed. Or torpor all their vamps, and then just bleed them out.
I can't think of any way that this would disadvantage a really
fight-ey deck.
WRT decks, I've now got 2:
Tzim agg hands / Blood of Acid / Reform Body
Assamite Thin Blood / Vampiric Speed / Riposte
I'm working on a 3rd, using suicidal Tremere & Chantry... I noticed
just how good Recure of the Homeland is (for Fight Club) - you can use
it tapped - for example, right after you bleed and get bashed into
torpor. Use it with Ian Forrestall and Reform body, and you are nearly
invincible!
...and I'm thinking of a fourth deck, something with undead
persistence / rapid healing and votes to keep my guys from being
diablerised.
I'm doing so many cos they almost build themselves, and cos they are
all about cards that are too much trouble to use in normal games -
rapid healing, Bonecraft, Riposte etc. I think that alone makes fight
club a worthwhile sub-game.
salem
icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com (Hollowboy) scrawled:
>I'm working on a 3rd, using suicidal Tremere & Chantry... I noticed
>just how good Recure of the Homeland is (for Fight Club) - you can use
>it tapped - for example, right after you bleed and get bashed into
>torpor. Use it with Ian Forrestall and Reform body, and you are nearly
>invincible!
reform body only works if you're in combat or untapped. being
diablerised while tapped in torpor is doooom.
salem
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