Lids VS Stone quills
Sutekh.23
As previously mentioned I've been playing gargoyles lately and I
wanted to see the groups take on Lids vs Stone quills.
Pro's for lids:
- only requires Pot
- delivers 3R damage
- offers a press at POT
- no cost
Cons for lids:
- no manuver
- no outfierior effect for support minions.
Pro's for Quills
- usable as an outferior effect
- 2R damage minimum
- offers a manuver at Vis or VIS
Con's:
- Cost of 1 blood at any level
- Somewhat harder to cycle
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Sutekh_23
Legendre
Klaital
> Quills can be used at close range.
I generally use both in my gargoyle decks, with slightly bigger
numbers of quills. You can get fairly decent combat package with a mix
of quills, lids, and crawling chambers.
pallando
IMHO both have their merit. It really depends on the circumstances.
In addition to Crawling Chamber mentioned by Klaital I suggest High
Ground as an addition to the combat package. The merits of that card
should be obvious.
Kind regards,
pallando
cthulukitty
> As previously mentioned I've been playing gargoyles lately and I
> wanted to see the groups take on Lids vs Stone quills.
I think you're making the wrong comparison. Stone Quills is much more
similar in effect to Thrown Gate than it is to Thrown Sewer Lid.
Moreover, Thrown Gate is almost certainly the best card out of those
three.
> Con's:
> - Cost of 1 blood at any level
This needs to be in bold text with a dozen exclamation points.
Spending blood is to be avoided as often as possible.
Jesse
Sutekh.23
> Sutekh wrote:
> > As previously mentioned I've been playing gargoyles lately and I
> > wanted to see the groups take on Lids vs Stone quills.
>
> I think you're making the wrong comparison. Stone Quills is much more
> similar in effect to Thrown Gate than it is to Thrown Sewer Lid.
> Moreover, Thrown Gate is almost certainly the best card out of those
> three.
Sure gates and quills are more similar, but gargoyles have a excellent
range of manuver tech and a distinct lack of POT. To my mind, the
gates would be inferior to both options in this instance as they will
mostly only produce 1 damage. (and yes you could argue that it has
it's own "damage pevention" via the manuver of course)
>
> > Con's:
> > - Cost of 1 blood at any level
>
> This needs to be in bold text with a dozen exclamation points.
> Spending blood is to be avoided as often as possible.
>
I agree, I try to limit the amount of blood costing cards in any deck
I make, but in this instance, I feel the cost is worth it (due mainly
to path of service and ankara citadel to mitagate said cost)
Sutekh_23
Dragar
> Moreover, Thrown Gate is almost certainly the best card out of those
As soon as you use the manuever on Gate you commit to the strike,
which is a very distinct weakness of the card, especially when you are
the blocking minion. It certainly has its uses, but I think Lids are
overall better
Peter D Bakija
> Sure gates and quills are more similar, but gargoyles have a excellent
> range of manuver tech and a distinct lack of POT. To my mind, the
> gates would be inferior to both options in this instance as they will
> mostly only produce 1 damage. (and yes you could argue that it has
> it's own "damage pevention" via the manuver of course)
Yeah, see, given the reliable availability of VIS for your Gargoyles
(which is pretty easy to do, depending on the crypt), the 3R/maneuver
from Stone Quills seems quite reasonable, even for a blood. I mean,
yeah, spending blood is a good thing to avoid, but with the new Path
of Sock Puppetry, and reliable damage prevention, and Taste, it seems
like a farily minimal cost for a very efficient card. I love Sewer
Lids as much as the next guy, and the Gargoyles have access to
Crawling Chamber, (especially) Roll, and High Ground to set range in a
pinch to get to long, but even then, having been playing a deck a lot
recently with, like, 22 each of Flash and Sewer Lid, you *still*
regularly get caught with Sewer Lids and no maneuvers. Which blows. I
mean, yeah, Roll will help a lot, but still. That Stone Quills is 3R
and a maneuver *and* can work at close range if all else fails has a
lot to recommend it. Assuming you don't have reliable POT for Gates.
-Peter
Hodgestar
> > Con's:
> > - Cost of 1 blood at any level
>
> This needs to be in bold text with a dozen exclamation points.
> Spending blood is to be avoided as often as possible.
Right below Gargoyle's have a path! :)
Schiavo
Simon
Salem
I guess we're just going to ignore Collapse the Arches in this
discussion, huh?
It seems pretty cool, but when I put 3 in a deck (which was very much a
defensive long range intercept deck), I still ended up turfing them when
I drew them.
The (D) bit is the real kicker, I think.
Collapse the Arches
Type: Combat
Requires: Visceratika/Thaumaturgy
Requires a ready vampire who has blocked a (D) action. Only usable in
the resulting combat. Only usable at long range.
[tha] Strike: 2R damage, with an optional press.
[vis] Strike: 4R damage. This strike cannot be dodged.
[VIS] As [vis] above, with first strike.
--
salem
Sutekh.23
> I guess we're just going to ignore Collapse the Arches in this
> discussion, huh?
>
I didn't want to ignore it, I actually think it is a pretty cool card
myself :)
> It seems pretty cool, but when I put 3 in a deck (which was very much a
> defensive long range intercept deck), I still ended up turfing them when
> I drew them.
>
> The (D) bit is the real kicker, I think.
>
Yep, that is one real problem with it. Lets face it, even if you were
inclined to block a D action which, as a rule, tend to be either
bleeds or rushes, you pobably have DOM minions ready to bounce the
bleed or a fistful of red cards saying "are you sure you want to rush
me?" If it didn't have the D requirement, I think it would be a great
card, possibly overpowered considering how easy it is for gargoyles to
get intercept and to set range (the fact that it is only usable on a
block would probably mitagate alot of that however). The other problem
with it is that if you do forgo bounces for blocks, it tends to be a
little too effective.
Sutekh_23
Sutekh.23
Snip some good stuff
That Stone Quills is 3R
> and a maneuver *and* can work at close range if all else fails has a
> lot to recommend it. Assuming you don't have reliable POT for Gates.
>
> -Peter
The lack of POT (besides via expensive gargoyles or skillcards) is why
I made the initial comparison. If however, I did have alot of POT/vis
minions, would you be more inclined to go for gates over the other two
cards?
Sutekh_23
cthulukitty
> The lack of POT (besides via expensive gargoyles or skillcards) is why
> I made the initial comparison. If however, I did have alot of POT/vis
> minions, would you be more inclined to go for gates over the other two
> cards?
That makes sense. I was responding based on a direct card to card
comparison, without thinking about the available crypt. The answer to
the second question is yes. I would totally use Gates over Quills and
Lids in a POT/vis crypt. Depending on the number of maneuvers in the
deck, I might splash a few Lids, but Gate is the real work horse of
flung junk because it is free, usable at either close or long range,
and it comes with a maneuver.
Jesse