LSJ - Rockheart
J
clarification.
Name: Rockheart
[LoB:C, HttB:PGar4]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Visceratika/Thaumaturgy
[tha] Strike: dodge.
[vis] Prevent half the damage (round up) done by the opponent's
strike. (Doing this twice would prevent all damage from the strike.)
[VIS] As [vis] above, and prevent half the damage (round up) done by
each strike of the opponent for the remainder of combat. A vampire may
play only one Rockheart at superior each combat.
So, a Tupdog is hit for h1.
I play Rockheart to prevent all damage from this strike because;
(snipped from JoL chat log)
he did h1
so that's 1 damage
I prevent half of 1 rounded up
which is 1
so I prevent 1
which is all of it
But I am told that;
(snipped from JoL chat log)
it only prevents half, which leaves .5 which is rounded back up to 1
which is still done
that's why it requires two to prevent even 1
please advise.
-- J
James Cass
Are you serious?
Half of 1 rounded up is... 1 leaving, shockingly, ZERO not prevented.
Half of 2 rounded up is... 1 leaving one not prevented.
Half of 3 rounded up is... 2 leaving one not prevented.
etc.
J
>
> Half of 1 rounded up is... 1 leaving, shockingly, ZERO not prevented.
>
> Half of 2 rounded up is... 1 leaving one not prevented.
> Half of 3 rounded up is... 2 leaving one not prevented.
> etc.
That was my reaction... but my opponent was very sure of himself, and
I was so amazed that I had to seek clarification here.
I did snip out the more 'flavorful' adjectives from the jol log.
-- J
YY
wrote:
> Probably had his confirmation bias dialed up over his reading
> comprehension.
>
> Jonathan
Is there even a doubt?
Rockheart [LoB:C, HttB:PGar4]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Visceratika/Thaumaturgy
[tha] Strike: dodge.
[vis] ***Prevent half the damage (round up)*** done by the opponent's
strike. (Doing this twice would prevent all damage from the strike.)
[VIS] As [vis] above, and ***prevent half the damage (round up)***
done by each strike of the opponent for the remainder of combat. A
vampire may play only one Rockheart at superior each combat.
Artist: Alexander Dunnigan
I'm quite sure "prevent half the damage (round up)" means to round up
the amount prevented.
- YY
suoli
There is no special "round up fractions"-step during the damage
resolution so any rounding would have to occur immediately as
Rockheart resolves. In other words, when you play Rockheart it
prevents 0.5 damage from h1, leaving 0.5 damage which is immediately
rounded up, the second Rockheart you play prevents 0.5 damage from the
remaining 1 damage, leaving 0.5 damage which is immediately rounded
up... and so on. The reminder text on Rockheart clearly contradicts
this.
James Cass
The "reminder text" is there to answer the question "What happens if I
play 2 Rockhearts?"
Assuming you are receiving 7 points of damage. The first would
prevent 4 points - leaving 3 still to be taken.
Playing a second Rockheart would either result in the 3 damage being
reduced to 1 (1.5 rounded up prevented) or as the "reminder text"
clarifies half the original damage being prevented.
Haze
wat
it doesn't say "halve the damage" it says "prevent half"
the amount prevented is rounded up, not the damage itself.
just like how Free States Rant doesn't actually reduce your vampire's
capacity by half. or does it?
Abdul alHazred
...adds to all other exclamations of surprise here (0,5 roubnded up is
one): - Rockheart SUP also specifically states that each vampire can
´t play Rockheart at the superior more than once per combat.
/cheers Tomas
suoli
> On Jul 6, 11:33 pm, suoli <suoliruse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There is no special "round up fractions"-step during the damage
> > resolution so any rounding would have to occur immediately as
> > Rockheart resolves. In other words, when you play Rockheart it
> > prevents 0.5 damage from h1, leaving 0.5 damage which is immediately
> > rounded up, the second Rockheart you play prevents 0.5 damage from the
> > remaining 1 damage, leaving 0.5 damage which is immediately rounded
> > up... and so on. The reminder text on Rockheart clearly contradicts
> > this.
>
> The "reminder text" is there to answer the question "What happens if I
> play 2 Rockhearts?"
I think that's open to interpretation. Why the brackets if it's
explicit card text instead of reminder text?
> Assuming you are receiving 7 points of damage. The first would
> prevent 4 points - leaving 3 still to be taken.
>
> Playing a second Rockheart would either result in the 3 damage being
> reduced to 1 (1.5 rounded up prevented) or as the "reminder text"
> clarifies half the original damage being prevented.
If Rockheart prevents half of the strike, rounded up, then the first
and second Rockheart both prevent half the amount of damage done (as
opposed to inflicted) by the strike. The damage done by the strike
should stay the same even if some or none of it is successfully
inflicted.
suoli
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I am aware that
Rockheart prevents half of the damage done, rounded up.
Vincent
> But I am told that;
>
> (snipped from JoL chat log)
> it only prevents half, which leaves .5
There is no such thing as fractionnal damage.
Rockheart prevents half the damage, round up, which means it prevents
1 in that case (because Ceil(0.5) = 1).
RH does not leave fractionnal damage hanging around.
The reminder text indicates that a second RH played computes the
quantity of damage prevented based on the whole total of damage, not
the remaining half.
J
> Rockheart prevents half the damage, round up, which means it prevents
> 1 in that case (because Ceil(0.5) = 1).
>
> RH does not leave fractionnal damage hanging around.
>
> The reminder text indicates that a second RH played computes the
> quantity of damage prevented based on the whole total of damage, not
> the remaining half.
I know that.
However, it seems that there are people out there that don't. As seen
by suoli's posts. So, some legitimized clarification would be
appreciated to put this to bed.
-- J
suoli
I'm not sure why you'd mention my post in this context. I took the
view that unprevented fractions of damage left by Rockheart are
rounded up to its logical conclusion and noted how absurd that would
be.
Jonathan_Sicari
Oh, I see that now. When I first read it (stupid lack of emoticons I
guess) I thought you were serious.
Jonathan
LSJ
Correct. (Card text)
LSJ
> There is no special "round up fractions"-step during the damage
> resolution so any rounding would have to occur immediately as
> Rockheart resolves.
Correct.
> In other words, when you play Rockheart it
> prevents 0.5 damage from h1, leaving 0.5 damage which is immediately
> rounded up,
No. Card text.
Rockheart prevents 1 (half of the one done, rounded up).
Leaving 0. Which is an integer and needs no rounding.
LSJ
> On 7 heinä, 06:44, James Cass <tjamesc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The "reminder text" is there to answer the question "What happens if I
> > play 2 Rockhearts?"
>
> I think that's open to interpretation. Why the brackets if it's
> explicit card text instead of reminder text?
English.
Not all parenthesized text is superfluous.
See also "round up".
> > Assuming you are receiving 7 points of damage. The first would
> > prevent 4 points - leaving 3 still to be taken.
>
> > Playing a second Rockheart would either result in the 3 damage being
> > reduced to 1 (1.5 rounded up prevented) or as the "reminder text"
> > clarifies half the original damage being prevented.
>
> If Rockheart prevents half of the strike, rounded up,
And it does (card text).
> then the first
> and second Rockheart both prevent half the amount of damage done (as
> opposed to inflicted) by the strike.
Correct (as confirmed by card text).
> The damage done by the strike
> should stay the same even if some or none of it is successfully
> inflicted.
Correct.
suoli
Obviously. My comment was meant to highlight the problems with the
interpretation proposed by J's JOL opponent.
suoli
> On Jul 7, 3:46 am, suoli <suoliruse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 7 heinä, 06:44, James Cass <tjamesc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The "reminder text" is there to answer the question "What happens if I
> > > play 2 Rockhearts?"
>
> > I think that's open to interpretation. Why the brackets if it's
> > explicit card text instead of reminder text?
>
> English.
>
> Not all parenthesized text is superfluous.
>
> See also "round up".
Sure. But...
>
> > then the first
> > and second Rockheart both prevent half the amount of damage done (as
> > opposed to inflicted) by the strike.
>
> Correct (as confirmed by card text).
>
> > The damage done by the strike
> > should stay the same even if some or none of it is successfully
> > inflicted.
>
> Correct.
...this seems to indicate that the "reminder text" really is just
superfluous (in that it is helpful but not strictly necessary)
reminder text. When two Rockhearts are played to prevent a strike that
does 7 damage they prevent 4 each, effectively preventing all damage
from the strike. This would be true with or without the reminder text.
Or am I forgetting some weird card interactions here?
LSJ
Apologies.
I'm not used to someone presenting an opposing side's viewpoint so
unbiasedly on this group.
LSJ
> On 7 heinä, 14:59, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > > The damage done by the strike
> > > should stay the same even if some or none of it is successfully
> > > inflicted.
>
> > Correct.
>
> ...this seems to indicate that the "reminder text" really is just
> superfluous (in that it is helpful but not strictly necessary)
> reminder text.
Well, it's necessary to indicate which model is being used.
(prevent half of initial or half of remaining).
> When two Rockhearts are played to prevent a strike that
> does 7 damage they prevent 4 each, effectively preventing all damage
> from the strike. This would be true with or without the reminder text.
Like "round up", it could be true without the reminder text, but it
could be untrue just as easliy.