draft text in KoT
Malone
their first booster reprint since the introduction of draftferior get
one. BOO! HISS!
(Despite there being a few really poor choices made, and some
'printing errors' that are hard to excuse, I think it's a good base
set.)
John Flournoy
> None of the new cards have draft text. None of the cards getting
> their first booster reprint since the introduction of draftferior get
> one. BOO! HISS!
It's a core set. They shouldn't need draftferiors by and large, since
the set is designed to work by itself.
-John Flournoy
Malone
Draft texts are for, um, drafting. Their utility has nothing to do
being a core set or not.
suolir...@gmail.com
Draftferiors seem to be mostly for exotic stuff that would otherwise
be too difficult to use in a draft. KoT focuses on a few common
disciplines so no biggie except for Tainted Spring and maybe a few
others.
John Flournoy
You're right; I overlooked that the last core set certainly had
draftferiors.
However, it's a moot point (now that I did a quick check on ebay),
because there are draftferiors in the new set, both on reprinted cards
and new ones. Protected Resources and Charismatic Aura, for instance,
both have them. (However, there may not be -many- of them.)
-John Flournoy
-John Flournoy
Tetragrammaton
Definitively , a base (camarilla) set without parity shift , deflection,
govern
(among the others possible reprints) isn't good at all to me.
Artworks in KoT are really the only real good thing i can see so far,
kudos to WW for investing in this.
But other than that, the new set seems be plagued with lots of serious
mistakes
Emiliano, NC Italy
Blooded Sand
Wuld you inlcude the reprinting of cards rares that are fixed, in
starters, in the same set? Because that is plain silly, and a waste of
my (the consumer, client,customer, person who pays company employee's
paycheck) money.
Tetragrammaton
Of course i do - seems like something gone plain wrong in the
production chain this time.
Both on the general set design, and on the printing side too.
A real shame, given the fact that WW got 3 all-good sets before
in a row before KoT, in the form of SoC, LoTN and TR.
Blooded Sand
Yeah. And lucky me, the one I had money to buy was KoT. Joy joy.....
Malone
Ooops, my bad. I hadn't seen every card, just most of them. Still,
I seriously question the decision not to put on more draft texts.
For example, the First and Sixth Traditions got reprinted but they
aren't of much use in general (although I have tried to use the 1st T
before in an attempt at a tricky Madness Network Baltimore Purge deck)
and I think especially not in limited play. Why not give them draft
text? Or Tainted Spring, which is pretty useless when drafting this
set when there are no animal allies or damage-dealing animal retainers
-- it was crazy not to give it a draftferior.
jwjbw...@gmail.com
> On Nov 18, 8:50 am, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> You're right; I overlooked that the last core set certainly had
> draftferiors.
IIRC, the last set was a Sabbat set. A Sabbat set is less focussed,
since it has 2 extra clans (not counting Pander as an extra clan) and
2 extra disciplines. Hence, perhaps there is a relatively greater
need for "draftferiors" to make sure the cards are reasonably playable
than in a (somewhat) more focussed set.
jwjbw...@gmail.com
> Ooops, my bad. I hadn't seen every card, just most of them. Still,
> I seriously question the decision not to put on more draft texts.
>
> For example, the First and Sixth Traditions got reprinted but they
> aren't of much use in general (although I have tried to use the 1st T
> before in an attempt at a tricky Madness Network Baltimore Purge deck)
> and I think especially not in limited play. Why not give them draft
> text?
First Tradition, like all vote cards, is easily burnable for the
Vote. For this reason, I am not sure that Vote cards *ever* need
draft text. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall if this ever has
been done. Moreover, it is highly playable in draft, if only because
you don't have so many votes to choose from. Bribes plus First
Tradition is a fine combination -- the only thing wrong with it is
that perhaps you wish you had drawn another card.
As for Sixth Tradition, its problem is not that it is not playable in
draft, but rather that it is hardly playable at all. If anything,
draft makes it more playable, because you are less likely to have
better options (but even in draft you are likely to have better
options). But it really needs some sort of fix. Could you please
check to see if it has been changed in any way?
> Or Tainted Spring, which is pretty useless when drafting this
> set when there are no animal allies or damage-dealing animal retainers
> -- it was crazy not to give it a draftferior.
It can be used at superior to give any animal ally or retainer a
life. And pulling off a combo is not so hard when your deck is only
35 cards or so. But are there really no animal allies, or damage-
dealing animal retainers, in the set?
simcof
> Vote. For this reason, I am not sure that Vote cards *ever* need
> draft text. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall if this ever has
> been done. Moreover, it is highly playable in draft, if only because
> you don't have so many votes to choose from. Bribes plus First
> Tradition is a fine combination -- the only thing wrong with it is
> that perhaps you wish you had drawn another card.
Consag boon in 3rd ed lets you choose two clans, Warrant is a rush for
assamites. draft effects are good for vote cards too I think. makes
draft more interesting.
simcof
bwross
Really. Only the Owl Companion and the Raven Spy are in the set.
Murder of Crows was passed over for reprinting again. Pulling Tainted
Spring in a draft is really only worth it if you're drafting onto
something like a 3rd ed Tzimisce precon... otherwise it's 1 blood that
requires you to have superior ANI to get a benefit that maybe might
matter. Grab anything else from the booster and pass on Tainted
Spring.
Brent Ross
jwjbw...@gmail.com
During my draft game, at Montreal, I drafted a Nosferatu Bestial and a
Raven Spy, both of which ended up in my final deck. Now that you
mention it, I think I probably did see a Tainted Spring during
drafting, and passed on it for the reasons you state.
Has KoT been so thoroughly spoiled that we can be sure of this? Is
there a list somewhere?
jwjbw...@gmail.com
> Has KoT been so thoroughly spoiled that we can be sure of this? Is
> there a list somewhere
I just found the list. Regarding Tainted Spring, I did note that
there is this new rare card called "Target Retainer". Seems to me, a
card with such a title just might be enough to make you wish you had
played "Tainted Spring" on your Raven Spy.
jwjbw...@gmail.com
> Consag boon in 3rd ed lets you choose two clans, Warrant
> is a rush for assamites. draft effects are good for vote
> cards too I think. makes draft more interesting.
Part of the charm of draft, to my mind at least, is that it limits
your choices, forcing you to make do with cards you might not
otherwise play with. Draft-feriors, as I understand it, were not put
in place to avoid this, but rather to make sure that draft players did
not end up stuck with too many cards that they literally could not
play to any positive effect, thus ending up with too few options.
I think the key phrase is "too many". The draft format can perfectly
well handle a few unplayable cards, especially if that card is a
rare. Draft playtesting, I think, is the only way to determine if the
set needs a few draft-feriors to oil the rusty wheel. And that should
be the goal. There is no need to consistently provide draft-feriors
for every single hard-to-play card. There comes a point where the
draft-feriors start to interfere with the experience - forcing players
to spend extra time reading the text of cards they thought they
knew.
First Tradition is perfectly playable in draft, as long as you have
enough princes and justicars, which this set does. It also benefits
you, by reason of the simple fact that it always hurts you last. It
is also a rare (IIRC), so providing a draft-ferior version will not do
much to grease the rusty wheel.
Tainted Spring is also a rare. It is also an animalism card, in a set
where the boosters tend to focus on vampires with animalism (the
starters focus on the non-animalism clans). It is not hard to draft a
deck that permits you to play Tainted Spring on your Raven Spy for an
extra life, and that extra life may be more likely to matter in draft
than one might suspect. If you leave out Tainted Spring because there
are even better cards to draft, then it seems to me there is no greasy
wheel problem to fix.
jcrossn...@gmail.com
> > > Wuld you inlcude the reprinting of cards rares that are fixed, in
> > > starters, in the same set? Because that is plain silly, and a waste of
> > > my (the consumer, client,customer, person who pays company employee's
> > > paycheck) money.
>
> > Of course i do - seems like something gone plain wrong in the
> > production chain this time.
> > Both on the general set design, and on the printing side too.
> > A real shame, given the fact that WW got 3 all-good sets before
> > in a row before KoT, in the form of SoC, LoTN and TR.
You know, it looks to me like you guys just plain don't like reprint
sets. Maybe you already have enough copies of all the reprinted cards,
which is great for you. Lots of players, particularly those just
starting to play, don't have those.
> Yeah. And lucky me, the one I had money to buy was KoT. Joy joy.....
You do realize that those other 3 sets are still not very hard to
acquire, right? Noone is forcing you to buy a set that you don't want,
and I'm sure the guys at WW would be equally happy if you were to
order boxes of older sets instead.
Jesse
Salem
Patsy is callable by any vampire, but only if you have the edge. Do 3
pool damage to your prey.
something I didn't notice when i opened my pack, so i passed it on...and
then my prey played it later in the game. Damn!
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
"In *my* Assamite deck, this would pwn you in teh FAEC, so shut up."
"Thats only cos u've never sene mi Gionavvi PUNCHnMUCNH u asshat."
- James Coupe
Tetragrammaton
> Tetragrammaton and Blooded Sand wrote:
>>>> Wuld you inlcude the reprinting of cards rares that are fixed, in
>>>> starters, in the same set? Because that is plain silly, and a
>>>> waste of my (the consumer, client,customer, person who pays
>>>> company employee's paycheck) money.
>>
>>> Of course i do - seems like something gone plain wrong in the
>>> production chain this time.
>>> Both on the general set design, and on the printing side too.
>>> A real shame, given the fact that WW got 3 all-good sets before
>>> in a row before KoT, in the form of SoC, LoTN and TR.
>
> You know, it looks to me like you guys just plain don't like reprint
> sets.
As previously debated, i'm fine with the reprints, but the
ratio of reprints in kot booster pretty sucks to me.
More, some fundamental ones (reprints) are not in KoT:
not including parity shift , in a base set dedicated to camarilla,
is a very *big* mistake, imho.
More, including reprints that are duplicated from precon starters
to boosters also pretty sucks.
> Maybe you already have enough copies of all the reprinted cards,
> which is great for you. Lots of players, particularly those just
> starting to play, don't have those.
>
>> Yeah. And lucky me, the one I had money to buy was KoT. Joy joy.....
>
> You do realize that those other 3 sets are still not very hard to
> acquire, right? Noone is forcing you to buy a set that you don't want,
> and I'm sure the guys at WW would be equally happy if you were to
> order boxes of older sets instead.
>
Maybe he's referring to the pre-release kits, that is a thing you buy
pretty before the actual cards are out.
Emiliano
John Flournoy
>
> Maybe he's referring to the pre-release kits, that is a thing you buy
> pretty before the actual cards are out.
If there were a pre-release kit, sure; however, Keepers didn't have a
pre-release kit.
What it had was a "Launch Kit", with WW officially saying that Launch
events were intended to be run this coming weekend (after the set was
launched). Although they did have an official launch event 3 days
prior to set release at WW HQ.
So they certainly were not telling or suggesting that people were
expected to buy those kits for use before the set was released.
> Emiliano
-John Flournoy
Tetragrammaton
and "prerelease kit" at this point.
Both "event" are held upon the release of the new set, day more
or day less.