Rules question: Remembering things
as...@hotmail.com
a.) In player B´s turn, player A remembered that his garou (which did
not act in his turn) should have regenerated 1 life in his turn. I
ruled that this is a mandatory thing that could not be forgotten, and
it was easy to "roll back", and I put 1 life on the garou. Correct?
b.) In player B´s turn, player A remembered that his hunting ground
should have put 1 blood on one of his vamps. I ruled that this could
be forgotten, as it normally involves a choice from the player (ie,
which vamp should have the blood) and thus is hard to "roll back" as
some his vamps acted in that turn. Was this incorrect of me?
Thankful for any help/discussion.
LSJ
> What can and can not be forgotten in a game of VtES?
Mandatory effects cannot be skipped.
Optional ones can be.
> a.) In player B愀 turn, player A remembered that his garou (which did
> not act in his turn) should have regenerated 1 life in his turn. I
> ruled that this is a mandatory thing that could not be forgotten, and
> it was easy to "roll back", and I put 1 life on the garou. Correct?
Correct.
That's not "rolling back", though (unless you reset game state to the untap
phase) -- it's just a correction.
> b.) In player B愀 turn, player A remembered that his hunting ground
> should have put 1 blood on one of his vamps. I ruled that this could
> be forgotten, as it normally involves a choice from the player (ie,
> which vamp should have the blood) and thus is hard to "roll back" as
> some his vamps acted in that turn. Was this incorrect of me?
It was correct.
Salem
> as...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> b.) In player B愀 turn, player A remembered that his hunting ground
>> should have put 1 blood on one of his vamps. I ruled that this could
>> be forgotten, as it normally involves a choice from the player (ie,
>> which vamp should have the blood) and thus is hard to "roll back" as
>> some his vamps acted in that turn. Was this incorrect of me?
>
> It was correct.
Be careful here though. Some people (myself included in years gone by)
thought that, say, paying for contestion (and other similar effects) was
an 'optional' thing, and that if the methuselah didn't pay a pool, you'd
correct the game state by having them automatically yield.
However, as contestion is a choice, the correct way to fix it is to roll
back to the time where they need to make the choice, and then proceed
from there (but you can often avoid rolling back if it seems apparent
everything since then would have happened the same regardless of the
choice, and just make them make the choice).
Also, don't forget to give a warning or verbal caution or whatever it is
these days to the garou player to help them remember for next time ;)
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
"In *my* Assamite deck, this would pwn you in teh FAEC, so shut up."
"Thats only cos u've never sene mi Gionavvi PUNCHnMUCNH u asshat."
- James Coupe
as...@hotmail.com
> >> should have put 1 blood on one of his vamps. I ruled that this could
> >> be forgotten, as it normally involves a choice from the player (ie,
> >> which vamp should have the blood) and thus is hard to "roll back" as
> >> some his vamps acted in that turn. Was this incorrect of me?
>
> > It was correct.
>
> Be careful here though. Some people (myself included in years gone by)
> thought that, say, paying for contestion (and other similar effects) was
> an 'optional' thing, and that if the methuselah didn't pay a pool, you'd
> correct the game state by having them automatically yield.
>
> However, as contestion is a choice, the correct way to fix it is to roll
> back to the time where they need to make the choice, and then proceed
> from there (but you can often avoid rolling back if it seems apparent
> everything since then would have happened the same regardless of the
> choice, and just make them make the choice).
>
> Also, don't forget to give a warning or verbal caution or whatever it is
> these days to the garou player to help them remember for next time ;)
>
> --
> salem
Yes, this contestthingy is one of the few rules I know :) Although, a
rollback is sometimes hard, we handle it as if the choice of paying/
not paying for contest not can be forgotten - ie, no "autoyield".
Ruben Feldman
> as...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > What can and can not be forgotten in a game of VtES?
>
> Mandatory effects cannot be skipped.
> Optional ones can be.
>
> > not act in his turn) should have regenerated 1 life in his turn. I
> > ruled that this is a mandatory thing that could not be forgotten, and
> > it was easy to "roll back", and I put 1 life on the garou. Correct?
>
> Correct.
>
> That's not "rolling back", though (unless you reset game state to the untap
> phase) -- it's just a correction.
>
The issue becomes a little more complicated once the garou entered
combat and the other player spent cards in a certain way to eliminate
a garou with 2 life and not 3. What happens if we see that the garou
should have had 3 and thus should not be burned? (since now we all
know what the opposing player can do in combat...)
Chris Berger
In a friendly game? You work something out. In a tournament, judges
decision.
I would say, rewind to the beginning of the action, put a 3rd life on
the Garou, and force the Garou to take the same action. The rushed
minion is free to do whatever he likes in combat.
as...@hotmail.com
> I would say, rewind to the beginning of the action, put a 3rd life on
> the Garou, and force the Garou to take the same action. The rushed
> minion is free to do whatever he likes in combat.
Eh? But if there have been other actions after the garou-combat? I
would never do such a rollback.
Chris Berger
It's not up to you, it's up to the judge.
as...@hotmail.com
I am the judge. I AM the law! :) At least sometimes.
Kevin M.
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> as...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> b.) In player B愀 turn, player A remembered that his hunting ground
>>> should have put 1 blood on one of his vamps. I ruled that this could
>>> be forgotten, as it normally involves a choice from the player (ie,
>>> which vamp should have the blood) and thus is hard to "roll back" as
>>> some his vamps acted in that turn. Was this incorrect of me?
>>
>> It was correct.
>
> Be careful here though. Some people (myself included in years gone by)
> thought that, say, paying for contestion (and other similar effects)
> was an 'optional' thing, and that if the methuselah didn't pay a
> pool, you'd correct the game state by having them automatically yield.
We all understand the group interest to raise the group to the highest
possible level of play, but if you have to be a jerk to do that, and it's
bordering on the unsportsmanlike, e.g. forcing 'BWAHAHA YOU'RE
SCREWEDDD1!!' as the default choice position rather than just correcting
the situation as cleanly as possible, then it is clearly a wrong way to
play.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Las Vegas NAQ 2009! http://members.cox.net/vtesinlv/
Kevin M.
> LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> as...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > What can and can not be forgotten in a game of VtES?
>> >
>> > (which did not act in his turn) should have regenerated 1 life
>> > in his turn. I ruled that this is a mandatory thing that could not
>> > be forgotten, and it was easy to "roll back", and I put 1 life
>> > on the garou. Correct?
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> That's not "rolling back", though (unless you reset game state
>> to the untap phase) -- it's just a correction.
>
> The issue becomes a little more complicated once the garou entered
> combat and the other player spent cards in a certain way to eliminate
> a garou with 2 life and not 3. What happens if we see that the garou
> should have had 3 and thus should not be burned? (since now we all
> know what the opposing player can do in combat...)
If it were me judging, and the two players couldn't figure it out
themselves, I'd have said that the game has become corrupted and fixed the
situation in the way to least damage the game -- continue the combat
without the additional life.
Then I would give warnings to *all* remaning players that they need to
remember these things and it is the responsibility of all of them to
follow the game state.