[LSJ] Raw Recruit questions
Bartłomiej "veyDer" Rudzki
when enslaved?
2. What is the name of the slave? If Enid Blount is changed into a
slave Gargoyle, does the Edith Blount's special ability work?
3. What is the sect of the new slave Gargoyle (the old sect or the
default one for the acting vampire's clan)?
4. What is the starting blood of the slave Gargoyle?
5. Does the slave Gargoyle keep the equipment and other cards?
6. What happens if the slave Gargoyle is burned? Does the original
vampire card go back to the owner's ash heap, the controller's ash
heap or is it removed from the game?
7. Is the slave Gargoyle still considered a unique copy of the
original vampire? Eg. if Arika is targeted by this card, can another
Arika be influenced out? If so, what happens if the second Arika is
Raw Recruit-ed as well? Does it contest the first one?
8. Is a non-unique vampire targeted by this card also considered non-
unique?
Thanks,
veyDer
The Lasombra
Raw Recruit
Action
Gargoyle
+1 stealth action. Requires a slave.
(D) Put this card in play and move a vampire in torpor to this card,
out of play. A vampire you control to whom this Gargoyle is a slave
may remove that vampire from the game as a +1 stealth action to turn
this card into a Gargoyle with the same capacity and Fortitude,
Potence, Visceratika and flight, enslaved to the acting vampire's
clan.
> 1. Does the vampire affected by this card keep the special abilities
> when enslaved?
No.
> 2. What is the name of the slave?
Sean. Or Oscar. Sometimes Ben. Occasionally Cylon Scott.
> If Enid Blount is changed into a
> slave Gargoyle, does the Edith Blount's special ability work?
No.
> 3. What is the sect of the new slave Gargoyle (the old sect or the
> default one for the acting vampire's clan)?
Newly created Gargoyles are Independent.
> 4. What is the starting blood of the slave Gargoyle?
Zero.
> 5. Does the slave Gargoyle keep the equipment and other cards?
No.
> 6. What happens if the slave Gargoyle is burned?
The world ends.
> Does the original vampire card go back to the owner's ash heap, the controller's ash
> heap or is it removed from the game?
Original vampire > original owner's ash heap
> 7. Is the slave Gargoyle still considered a unique copy of the
> original vampire?
No.
> Eg. if Arika is targeted by this card, can another
> Arika be influenced out?
Yes.
> If so, what happens if the second Arika is
> Raw Recruit-ed as well?
You pound the table and crow like a rooster.
> Does it contest the first one?
No.
> 8. Is a non-unique vampire targeted by this card also considered non-
> unique?
All gargoyles created by Raw Recruit are non-unique.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
John Flournoy
> On Mar 2, 3:36 pm, Bartłomiej "veyDer" Rudzki wrote:
>
> Raw Recruit
> Action
> Gargoyle
> +1 stealth action. Requires a slave.
> (D) Put this card in play and move a vampire in torpor to this card,
> out of play. A vampire you control to whom this Gargoyle is a slave
> may remove that vampire from the game as a +1 stealth action to turn
> this card into a Gargoyle with the same capacity and Fortitude,
> Potence, Visceratika and flight, enslaved to the acting vampire's
> clan.
> > Does the original vampire card go back to the owner's ash heap, the controller's ash
> > heap or is it removed from the game?
>
> Original vampire > original owner's ash heap
Incorrect. Per the card text, the original vampire is removed from the
game (.."may remove that vampire from the game as a +1 stealth
action..")
-John Flournoy
LSJ
> On Mar 2, 3:36 pm, Bartłomiej "veyDer" Rudzki wrote:
>
> Raw Recruit
> Action
> Gargoyle
> +1 stealth action. Requires a slave.
> (D) Put this card in play and move a vampire in torpor to this card,
> out of play. A vampire you control to whom this Gargoyle is a slave
> may remove that vampire from the game as a +1 stealth action to turn
> this card into a Gargoyle with the same capacity and Fortitude,
> Potence, Visceratika and flight, enslaved to the acting vampire's
> clan.
>
> > 1. Does the vampire affected by this card keep the special abilities
> > when enslaved?
>
> No.
Correct. Or more properly: "Moot", since the vampire affected is
removed from the game. Xe is never enslaved. "This card" (the action
card) is enslaved (and this action card has no "special abilities" in
that sense).
> > 2. What is the name of the slave?
>
> Sean. Or Oscar. Sometimes Ben. Occasionally Cylon Scott.
Correct enough. The recruit-card-turned-Gargoyle is non-unique.
> > If Enid Blount is changed into a
> > slave Gargoyle, does the Edith Blount's special ability work?
>
> No.
>
> > 3. What is the sect of the new slave Gargoyle (the old sect or the
> > default one for the acting vampire's clan)?
>
> Newly created Gargoyles are Independent.
>
> > 4. What is the starting blood of the slave Gargoyle?
>
> Zero.
Correct.
> > 5. Does the slave Gargoyle keep the equipment and other cards?
>
> No.
Well, the equipment and other cards aren't moved to the recruit,
correct. They are burned when the card they are on is removed from the
game.
> > 6. What happens if the slave Gargoyle is burned?
>
> The world ends.
Probably not.
The recruit action card goes to the ash heap when burned.
> > Does the original vampire card go back to the owner's ash heap, the controller's ash
> > heap or is it removed from the game?
>
> Original vampire > original owner's ash heap
Well, the original vampire was removed from the game back when the
recruit was turned into a Gargoyle. It remains out of the game when
the recruit-turned-Gargoyle is burned.
Indeed, it remains out of the game no matter what happens in the game,
by definition of "remove from game".
> > 7. Is the slave Gargoyle still considered a unique copy of the
> > original vampire?
>
> No.
>
> > Eg. if Arika is targeted by this card, can another
> > Arika be influenced out?
>
> Yes.
Correct.
> > If so, what happens if the second Arika is
> > Raw Recruit-ed as well?
>
> You pound the table and crow like a rooster.
Perhaps.
> > Does it contest the first one?
>
> No.
Correct.
> > 8. Is a non-unique vampire targeted by this card also considered non-
> > unique?
>
> All gargoyles created by Raw Recruit are non-unique.
Correct.
Juggernaut1981
Anarch Convert Gargoyles FTW!
Janne Hägglund
> On Mar 2, 3:36 pm, Bartłomiej "veyDer" Rudzki wrote:
>
> Raw Recruit
> [SNIP]
> > 6. What happens if the slave Gargoyle is burned?
>
> The world ends.
Best. Rules. Answer. EVER.
HG
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
Lies! This is what happens when Chuck Norris dies!
The Lasombra
re: Raw Recruit
>Anarch Convert Gargoyles FTW!
I am not sure how you are getting from Anarch Convert Raw Recruit
Gargoyles to "the win".
This is my understanding of your proposal:
1) Influence an Anarch Convert, a Gargoyle slave, and a
Tremere/TremereAntitribu.
2) Get the Anarch Convert into torpor.
3) Take an action with the slave.
4) Take an action with the master.
5) Now have a 1 cap Gargoyle with Fortitude, Potence, Visceratika and
flight, enslaved to the master's clan.
6) ......
7) Win.
Care to elaborate?
Brum
It's nice that he prevented damage from Mayaparisatya. Twice!
Tiago
OldFan
Well - I am not the OP of this particular comment, but being the "King
of All things that are WAY too complicated for something that is
ALMOST effective - In Ithaca, NY!", I would posit the following
hypothetical:
1.) Influence out a bunch of Gargoyles, Malachai being a possible star
for having some (pre) already built in. Have some supporting Tremere
or !Tremere, preferably with some obf/OBF, to lend some stealth
support, along with built in DOM
2.) Get an Anarch Convert to turn Malachai into an Anarch. Possibly
turn some other Gargoyles or support minions into anarchs, but not
really necessary
3.) Use the bunch of Gargoyles you have created, and run around
punching opposing vampires into torpor. If you have Carver's meat
packing, Torpid Blood, or some other shenanigan to make rescues more
difficult, better for you.
4.) Proceed to "Raw Recruit" and "Graverobbing" steal all of these
various torporized minions, and make them Anarch with some various or
sundry mechanism. Presumably you have accumulated no small number of
them. Also make some Hatchlings and Create Gargoyles along the way,
for more ammo (see below).
5.) Have Malachai become a Baron with some Fee Stake. Untap with
Freak Drive/As the Crow.
6.) Fire the Death Star Cannon (aka "Revolutionary Council") at
opposing Methuselahs until they are dead. Some pre on Malachai gives
you push (with Bewitching, Iron Glare), PLUS you have presumably run
around and torporized/Raw Recruited any opposing minions who could
possibly foil your nefarious plan (i.e. people with titles or votes or
something that nerfs voting).
7.) Win!
Errrr......yeah, kinda dubious, but it's doable! No - Really!
But as Peter constantly remonstrates me while laughing "Well, it's Hi-
freakin-larious, but it seems like an awful lot of work for something
that's ALMOST effective. Wouldn't you be better off just using KRC/
Reck ag?"
Sure - but what would the fun in that be?! :-)
-AC
Bartłomiej "veyDer" Rudzki
> > default one for the acting vampire's clan)?
>
> Newly created Gargoyles are Independent.
Are you sure about this? I searched the group archive but couldn't
find anything related to it.
LSJ, could you confirm that the Gargoyles created by Raw Recruit are
Independent?
Thanks,
veyDer
The Lasombra
wrote:
>> > 3. What is the sect of the new slave Gargoyle (the old sect or the
>> > default one for the acting vampire's clan)?
>> Newly created Gargoyles are Independent.
>Are you sure about this?
Yes.
All new vampires take the default sect of their clan unless card text
specifies otherwise. Raw Recruit has no text to change this.
The default sect of Gargoyles is independent.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/blgar.html
Gargoyles
Disciplines: Fortitude Potence Viseratika Flight
Sect: Independent
>I searched the group archive but couldn't
>find anything related to it.
Its on the Bloodlines rules sheet.
>LSJ, could you confirm that the Gargoyles created by Raw Recruit are
>Independent?
He did, today.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/ad193a39af998d45
Bartłomiej "veyDer" Rudzki
OK, that clarifies everything.
Thanks,
veyDer
Mark
> > 6. What happens if the slave Gargoyle is burned?
>
> The world ends.
This actually made me spill my coffee on my laptop.
Omg I laughed.
So... will that be a Gehenna Event? And does it count towards the
number of Gehenna cards needed to play others? Or actually, for that
to happen, the Raw Recruit action card now needs to become a Gehenna
card and remains in play as so. Could we please implement this into
the game? Would be fun!
Joscha
Hmm, so there will be independent vampires who can be enslaved to a
clan? Does that make sense? Isn't that contradictory to the meaning of
"independent"?
After all LSJ did not confirm that matter in the link you qouted but
he missed out an answer to this point (he answered the point regarding
coming into play with no blood with "yes" iirc).
John Flournoy
> Hmm, so there will be independent vampires who can be enslaved to a
> clan? Does that make sense? Isn't that contradictory to the meaning of
> "independent"?
No more than (from a thematic view) a Sabbat vampire being Blood
Bond'ed to a Camarilla vampire, etc.
And it's not like (from a game standpoint) that vampires with the
'slave' trait were unable to become Independent (such as by going
anarch.)
-John Flournoy