(Deck) New Blood Brothers!
Peter D Bakija
accidentally posting them, I figure I'll actually post one, as I
haven't seen one of these yet.
Deck: "Danylo, Danylo (a Young Girl's Erotic Journey from Krakow to
Kiev)"
Crypt:
3x Pavlo (4) SAN, pro
3x Kyrylo (4) SAN
2x Danylo (4) san, pro
2x Gravylo (4) san, pro
2x Volo (4) san, pro
Library:
6x Effective Management
3x Thicker than Blood
3x Information Highway
2x Protean
2x Tribute to the Master
16x Unwholesome Bond
10x Hive Mind
8x Walk of Caine
8x Shell Game
6x Slake the Thirst
2x Redistribution
10x Earth Meld
4x Earth Control
4x Rapid Change
2x Claws of the Dead
4x Sanguine Instruction
So clearly, bloat like nuts and bleed for 5 a bunch. The protean gives
me free S:CE and more stealth. A couple Claws of the Dead for surprise
ag in case I get grappled. Thicker then Blood isn't necessarily all
that good of a deal in this deck, but I have the three, so I figure
trying them out is worth the effort. Also not sold on the
Redistributions, but I slid them in there in the revision phase,
figuring it would be handy to move blood around (and untap) for a
killing bleed attempt. The Protean skill cards and Sangune Instruction
are helpful for both bolstering my skills (and fixing Kyrylo, the weak
link in the chain) as well as making guys 5 cap, so they can gain more
blood from an Unwholesome and not get hosed by Aranthebes. I might
want a couple more Hive Mind (untap or gain 3 pool? What isn't to
love?). The Unwholesome/Slake the Thirst combo is fantastic--take one
action, two guys each gain 4 blood, and then spend a blood to untap
the first guy. I could probably take out a Info Highway, as Danylo can
go fetch one if I need to.
I played it the other night, and the initial draft won a game
(although it wasn't a real serious game, and no one was playing
bounce...), so it seems like it has some legs. I might want to fit
some "I look at your hand" tech, so as to go fishing for bounce and/or
AI, although AI is not really much of an issue for this deck.
-Peter
Klaital
You might want to use some Claiming the Bodies there also, thats
awesome for bleed decks, since its like change of target except it
taps the blocker. If you add those you could reduce the amount of
earth melds
pallando
I guess trying to build a bleed deck and using pro is the best thing
you can do with the Kiev Circle.
Pro: you should be able to play all 5 and still have quite some pool
left for defense.
Con: the Walk of Caine bleeds really ask to be bounced.
Personally I would add some defensive cards, namely 2 x Archon
Investigation and 2 x Delaying Tactics. Wider View might be a good
idea as well.
Probably only playing the deck will tell us how it fares and if the
ratios of the cards should be adjusted one way or the other.
Would you care to elaborate what the purpose of Thicker than Blood is?
I read the card over and over again. Unless I missed something it
seems to be completely useless to me.
Kind regards,
pallando
Janne Hägglund
Completely useless?? Pay 2 pool (and no transfers) to bring a Blood Brother
from the uncontrolled region to the ready region. And you still have 4
transfers left, so you can bring up another Kiev circle Brother during your
influence phase.
Result: *two* extra Kiev circle Brothers in a *single* *turn*, for the price
of 6 pool, 4 transfers and a master phase action.
HG
Klaital
The extra one comes into play empty though (assuming you didn't have
any pool transferred on it earlier)
Peter D Bakija
> You might want to use some Claiming the Bodies there also, thats
> awesome for bleed decks, since its like change of target except it
> taps the blocker. If you add those you could reduce the amount of
> earth melds
Yeah, that is probably a good idea--I was looking at it at some point
in the editing process, and it didn't make the cut, but it probably
should.
-Peter
pallando
That is exactly my point. Why do you want an empty Blood Brother for
the cost of 2 pool? Or would you first transfer some pool to it and
move to the ready region later on?
The card maybe makes sense with the other 2 cycles because those Blood
Brothers are more expensive. Still, the price of 2 pool is pretty
high, and you have to dedicate library slots and master phase actions
to the card. I can think of better ways to spend 2 pool and a MPA...
Kind regards,
pallando
Peter D Bakija
> I guess trying to build a bleed deck and using pro is the best thing
> you can do with the Kiev Circle.
Sure--without using the Protean, you might as well be one of the other
circles with better disciplines.
> Pro: you should be able to play all 5 and still have quite some pool
> left for defense.
> Con: the Walk of Caine bleeds really ask to be bounced.
Well, yeah, there is certainly that. I kinda wanna add in some "look
at my prey's hand" tech (Prophecies of Gehenna, that silly action
where you look at someone's hand and make them discard allies) just
for that.
> Personally I would add some defensive cards, namely 2 x Archon
> Investigation and 2 x Delaying Tactics. Wider View might be a good
> idea as well.
AI is probably a good idea. DT is probably a good idea. Wider View,
not as much--with this kinda deck, you want as many guys in your
uncontolled reigon as possible, as each one gains blood from the
Unwholesomes. With 6x Effective Managements, you probably get all 5 of
the BBs fairly early anyway, and all the extras sit around generating
pool.
> Would you care to elaborate what the purpose of Thicker than Blood is?
Pay 2 pool and an MPA to get a free minion in play during your master
phase. I mean, it certainly is going to be worth more in, like, a
Torrance circle deck (where they are 6 caps instead of 4 caps), but 2
pool for a 4 cap that can hunt, get untapped, or get filled up with an
Unwholesome/Slake is totally worth the effort, even if it only saves
you 2 pool.
-Peter
DeBomas
3x Pavlo SAN pro (move blood during untap)
2x Danylo san pro (search location)
2x Gavrylo san pro (allies and younger get -1 intercept)
3x Kyrylo SAN
2x Volo san pro (-1 stealth when hunting)
Masters (22)
4 Blood Doll
3 Vessel
3 Perfectionist
1 Hungry Coyote
1 Wall Street Financial
1 KRCG
3 Protean
3 Agent of Power
1 Barrens
2 Anarch Troublemaker
Actions (28)
2 Abbott
4 Camera Phone
5 Sanguinus Instructie
6 Hive Mind
3 Redistribution
8 Unwholesome bond
---> The redistrubutions are excellent actually: they have the untap
at SAN, gain 2 with the perfectionist, and because of the
bloodshuffling you can really abuse them with Slake the thirst (play
redist with A, take blood from B to A, slake to let B gain the amount
moved +1, can net you up to 8 blood, untap included).
---> After playing a few games, i'd probably swap out the camera
phones for simple computerhackings.
Mods (27)
6 Change of Target
8 Claiming the Body
2 Rapid Change
4 Slake the thirst
8 Walk of Caine
No Shell games: i tried them, but to have your stealthy guy blocked,
means you're other 2 guys stay tapped, which is very very annoying.
Going with the combination of claiming the body and change of target
means you can tap them out of they're untapped with claiming, or draw
their wakes with change of target. It also helps for the responsible
bleeding part, since you can just simply play change of target when
your grandprey blocks, and there's no harm done.
Combat (12)
4x Form of Mist
8x Earth Meld
I tried Hay ride, but it got stuck with it every time, even in this
action heavy version.
Thicker than blood is nice, but i like to have blood on my dudes,
instead of having to hunt. The bloat is incredible, especially
combining the actions with the blooddools/vessels. I played before
with more effective management, but since you'll only take back 2 pool
in your influence (or 3, with the info highway), having more than 3
brothers uncontrolled is mostly overkill. It's a design choice of
course, to go with more Unwholesome, Info Highway, Effective
management and thicker than blood, but i feel it takes a lot of cards,
for an effect that 'just' gives you some extra speed in the start, but
doens't really matter in the late and midgame. Personally, i'rd rather
use that deckspace for more tap and bleed ....
Daneel
I'm not sold on Thicker. When I first saw it, I was like - awesome, you
get a free minion! Then I kind of began to think and consider the Blood
Brothers decks I played. I want blood on my Blood Brothers. In fact,
both my Torrance circle rusher and Chicago circle bleeder decks do
fairly well as long as I have the blood to fuel their cost-intensive
cards (e.g. Coagulated, Gestalt, Walk). Even for the Torrance Circle -
- it might make sense every once in a while (e.g. to bring out that last
guy with 1 blood from the last Unwholesome you're anyway not going to
use except for the +bleed on Walk, or to bring up the second guy quickly
if you might face rush) but overall, would you rather spend:
- 1 card, 2 pool and an MPA to get an empty guy?
- Or 1 card, 3 transfers, 5 pool and an MPA to get a half-full guy?
- Or ditch the card and pay 6 transfers and 6 pool to get the full guy?
In, like, about most of the time I'd go for the full guy and, like, play
Ascendence or something with my MPA... :) OR, if I want to go for the
surprise angle, use stuff like Personal Involvement, Misdirection,
Pentex or such.
--
Regards,
Daneel
Jozxyqk
> I'm not sold on Thicker. When I first saw it, I was like - awesome, you
> get a free minion! Then I kind of began to think and consider the Blood
> Brothers decks I played. I want blood on my Blood Brothers.
Food for thought:
If you are playing Chicago Circle, you can play Thicker Than Blood and then
move a blood from Jerry on to the new guy immediately.
Daneel
I actually thought about this, and this helps in that I don't have to hunt
with an empty guy, but I still need to get the blood back on them somehow.
Which means stuff like Coven and the like.
Overall, it seems to me that if I want to rely on Thicker, I need to have
extra infrastructure to replenish my vampires (even beyond the few
Unwholesome Bonds I'd anyway pack). If I push up on blood management and
use Thicker to save me transfers and pool, I'll fall back a bit on my
ousting power.
I'm not saying that Putting a Thicker or two in a deck is the worst idea
ever. But it seems generally better to me to try and strengthen the core
of the deck - more solid ousting mechanism and fewer moving parts
- instead of going for a bargain like Thicker and then have to worry
about actually putting blood on your vampire.
It's like turning the other circles into Hermanas. It's a pity it only
works on Unique guys, it would actually be good for the bigger sisters...
--
Regards,
Daneel
suoli
Or Redistribute all the blood from a full guy and play Slake The
Thirst for an instant refill. You'd need a Communal Haven: Cathedral
or an inferior Hive Mind to work around the mandatory hunt but hey,
it's still a full minion for a 2 pool master card.
Salem
speaking of hunting, where's your Hungry Coyote?
--
salem
Peter D Bakija
> speaking of hunting, where's your Hungry Coyote?
Had one in there in the first draft. But figured the 2 pool for the
benefit that isn't going to come up all that much (due to Unwholesome,
Slake, the guy who gives out blood), probably better as something
else. I can envision not actually hunting all that much in this deck.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> I'm not sold on Thicker. When I first saw it, I was like - awesome, you
> get a free minion! Then I kind of began to think and consider the Blood
> Brothers decks I played. I want blood on my Blood Brothers.
I'm not totally sold yet either. But still:
-It gains you at least 2 pool (as opposed to transferring pool).
-It gets you N free transfers, and a new minion in your master phase.
-You can have 1 blood on the guy before you Thicker than Water him
(either by transferring one, or better yet, playing an Unwholesome at
SAN on the previous turn).
-There are ways to pass blood around during your master phase to
ensure that he doesn't need to hunt.
-Blood Brothers can fill him up quickly and cheaply.
I mean, yeah, again, not totally sold myself either. But in theory,
even in the Kiev deck, it seems like it should be good.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> Masters (22)
> 4 Blood Doll
> 3 Vessel
> 3 Perfectionist
> 1 Hungry Coyote
> 1 Wall Street Financial
> 1 KRCG
> 3 Protean
> 3 Agent of Power
> 1 Barrens
> 2 Anarch Troublemaker
Ooh! Agent of Power. Great idea!
> Mods (27)
> 6 Change of Target
> 8 Claiming the Body
> 2 Rapid Change
> 4 Slake the thirst
> 8 Walk of Caine
Yeah, the Change of Target/Claiming the Body tech is pretty solid. I'm
gonna go with stealth for now, and see how it goes, but a couple
Claiming the Body is probably a good idea.
> No Shell games: i tried them, but to have your stealthy guy blocked,
> means you're other 2 guys stay tapped, which is very very annoying.
Oh, sure, but you can also play one card for +4 stealth in a pinch.
Every once and a while, you don't get to untap due to a failed action,
which is a drag, but most of the time, you just get some free stealth.
-Peter
Tazar
Kaymakli Nightmares
Type: Master
Master.
All Methuselahs move any crypt cards in their uncontrolled regions to
their crypts. Any blood counters on them are moved to the Methuselah's
pool, and any cards on them are burned. Each Methuselah shuffles his
or her crypt and then moves as many cards from his or her crypt to his
or her uncontrolled region as he or she shuffled in. Only one Kaymakli
Nightmares may be played per game
This one gets you really a lot of pool in late game when you have 5 of
them controlled and 5+ uncontrolled with blood on them. It can also
seriously hurt any deck trying to bring out big vampire early in the
game or deck relying on single star vampire (assuming he does not draw
him again).
librarian
> So as I have put together all sorts of new decks, and keep
> accidentally posting them, I figure I'll actually post one, as I
> haven't seen one of these yet.
>
I've got one running too, hopefully our decks don't meet on JOL, otherwise
we are screwed. I'm going to compare my deck to yours, and comment on how
I'm going to change my deck, as I see what ideas you have going into your deck.
> Deck: "Danylo, Danylo (a Young Girl's Erotic Journey from Krakow to
> Kiev)"
>
> Crypt:
> 3x Pavlo (4) SAN, pro
> 3x Kyrylo (4) SAN
> 2x Danylo (4) san, pro
> 2x Gravylo (4) san, pro
> 2x Volo (4) san, pro
I'm running 3 Gavrylo, and only 2 Kyrylo. I like Danylo's special, helps
out a lot vs Carlton and Unmasking.
>
> Library:
> 6x Effective Management
> 3x Thicker than Blood
> 3x Information Highway
> 2x Protean
> 2x Tribute to the Master
>
My master package is quite different. It's much more toolboxy, and perhaps
shouldn't be.
Master (19 cards)
5 Blood Doll
1 Direct Intervention
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Hungry Coyote, The
2 Information Highway
1 Jake Washington (Hunter)
1 Pentex Subversion
4 Protean
1 Sudden Reversal
2 Wider View
I don't plan to do a *lot* of Unwholesome bonding, and when I do, I expect
it to be at san, and doubled up with Slake the Thirst (which I think is
really good). So, I don't feel like I need so many Effectives. My plan is
to take hunt and unwholesome actions along with Slake the Thirst, and blood
Doll off that blood. I could see dumping the Wider Views in mine, as well
as Jake and a Highway for 2xEffective and 2xTribute.
> 16x Unwholesome Bond
> 10x Hive Mind
> 4x Sanguine Instruction
> 2x Redistribution
Action (15 cards)
4 Hive Mind
3 Sanguine Instruction
8 Unwholesome Bond
Our action package is pretty similar. I may add Redistribution, it looks
pretty good.
> 8x Walk of Caine
> 8x Shell Game
> 6x Slake the Thirst
> 4x Earth Control
> 4x Rapid Change
Action Modifier (17 cards)
6 Earth Control
4 Freak Drive
7 Walk of Caine
4 Slake the Thirst
As I look at this, I'm thinking Freak Drive should go, and add either Dual
Form (for inf version), or more Hive Mind/Redistributions).
> 2x Claws of the Dead
> 10x Earth Meld
>
Combat (15 cards)
3 Claws of the Dead
8 Earth Meld
4 Form of Mist
I'm depending on more Protean stealth in my build. I may drop a Claws of
dead and add a Rapid Change or two.
My deck is also very much more toolboxy:
Reaction (7 cards)
2 Delaying Tactics
3 On the Qui Vive
2 Poison Pill
Ally (2 cards)
1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
1 Ossian
Equipment (1 cards)
1 Heart of Nizchetus
Heart, Carlton and Ossian just because they are very good.
Weakness is I may not be able to bloat fast enough to protect vs sneak
bleed or massive vote.
best -
chris
Peter D Bakija
> I've got one running too, hopefully our decks don't meet on JOL, otherwise
> we are screwed. I'm going to compare my deck to yours, and comment on how
> I'm going to change my deck, as I see what ideas you have going into your deck.
>
I'm playing mine in two of the new games we just started, and luckily,
not in the one where you are (I'm playing my likely much less good
Grotesque deck in that one :-)
> I'm running 3 Gavrylo, and only 2 Kyrylo. I like Danylo's special, helps
> out a lot vs Carlton and Unmasking.
Reasonable--I have 3 of Kyrylo as even though he is the weak link, the
SAN is important. And with the Effectives, probably getting them all
anyway.
> My master package is quite different. It's much more toolboxy, and perhaps
> shouldn't be.
>
> Master (19 cards)
> 5 Blood Doll
> 1 Direct Intervention
> 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1 Hungry Coyote, The
> 2 Information Highway
> 1 Jake Washington (Hunter)
> 1 Pentex Subversion
> 4 Protean
> 1 Sudden Reversal
> 2 Wider View
Oh, yeah, see, I just went with the straight forward "get lots of
uncontrolled guys, Unwholesome a lot, transfer back" plan. As noted
elsewhere, I originally had a Hungry Coyote in there, but it turns out
that I don't hunt that much.
> Action (15 cards)
> 4 Hive Mind
> 3 Sanguine Instruction
> 8 Unwholesome Bond
Yeah, this is vastly different than mine--like a 3rd of my deck is
Unwholesome and Hive Mind (which is really good).
> Our action package is pretty similar. I may add Redistribution, it looks
> pretty good.
In terms of what is in there--absolutely. In terms of numbers, you
have far fewer of everything :-)
> Action Modifier (17 cards)
> 6 Earth Control
> 4 Freak Drive
> 7 Walk of Caine
> 4 Slake the Thirst
>
> As I look at this, I'm thinking Freak Drive should go, and add either Dual
> Form (for inf version), or more Hive Mind/Redistributions).
Yeah--the Freaks could be more Hive Mind and they duplicate the untap
(generally) and the Govern aspect just ads to the bloat.
> Combat (15 cards)
> 3 Claws of the Dead
> 8 Earth Meld
> 4 Form of Mist
>
> I'm depending on more Protean stealth in my build. I may drop a Claws of
> dead and add a Rapid Change or two.
I was considering the Form of Mist, but with fewer Protean masters,
less likely to pay off.
> Reaction (7 cards)
> 2 Delaying Tactics
> 3 On the Qui Vive
> 2 Poison Pill
>
> Ally (2 cards)
> 1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> 1 Ossian
>
> Equipment (1 cards)
> 1 Heart of Nizchetus
Yeah, I could probably use some Delaying Tactics or something, but
occasionally, I go for the incredibly straight forward, no messing
around deck build. I'll see how it goes :-)
-Peter