[DECK] Togetherness
wumpus
Here's another deck for review. Nothing particularly innovative,
though I didn't see anyone else trying this particular crypt for War
Ghouls when I looked through the TWDA. Seems like it should be a
reasonable alternate to the Tailor and Piper based concepts.
It's been fun to play, and fairly resilient. It tends to be a little
short on oust power, so I'm thinking about pullling a few retainers
(Malajit, Revenant) and Pulled Fangs for a Dragonbound and something,
maybe a second Charisma and Tshwane? Otherwise the Cab and Greg
Winter seem kind of questionable, and the second VIC master could
maybe be OBF or something else.
Ideas?
Thanks,
Alex
-----
Deck Name: Togetherness
Created By: Alex Broadhead
Description: AUS + dom + OBF + VIC?
Adds: Lobotomy? Orb of Ulain? Lillith`s Blessing? Perpetual Care?
Ancient Influence? Reins of Power?
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 13, Max: 29, Avg: 5)
-------------------------------------------
3 Ana Rita Montana aus dom obf VIC5 Tzimisce
3 Guedado aus obf vic 4 Tzimisce
3 Ilias cel Frumos aus vic 3 Tzimisce
3 Lady Zara Slatikov ANI AUS OBF VIC8 Tzimisce
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (21 cards)
2 Auspex
1 Charisma
2 Fame
1 Fortschritt Library
1 Heidelberg Castle, Germany
2 Jake Washington (Hunter)
1 KRCG News Radio
1 Mob Connections
2 Perfectionist
1 Powerbase: Tshwane
3 Vessel
2 Vicissitude
2 Wider View
Action (2 cards)
1 Graverobbing
1 Soul Decoration
Action Modifier (18 cards)
6 Changeling
3 Cloak the Gathering
3 Faceless Night
3 Lost in Crowds
3 Veil the Legions
Reaction (12 cards)
3 My Enemy`s Enemy
6 On the Qui Vive
3 Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (11 cards)
1 Breath of the Dragon
6 Chiropteran Marauder
1 Pulled Fangs
3 Trap
Ally (12 cards)
1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
1 Gregory Winter
1 Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
1 Vagabond Mystic
8 War Ghoul
Retainer (9 cards)
3 Corpse Balloon
1 J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1 Jackie Therman
1 Malajit Chandramouli
1 Mr. Winthrop
1 Revenant
1 Tasha Morgan
Equipment (1 cards)
1 Unlicensed Taxicab
Event (1 cards)
1 Unmasking, The
Combo (3 cards)
3 Swallowed by the Night
BeAst
similarities. There's certainly a crypt to add an obf module, but now
with mind of the wilds, pure ani/aus/vic can get 3 stealth.
How has it worked for you so far?
BeAst
> http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2k7ccpalmahas a lot of
> similarities. There's certainly a crypt to add an obf module, but now
> with mind of the wilds, pure ani/aus/vic can get 3 stealth.
> How has it worked for you so far?
D'oh, re-read and you said its short on oust. Needs more coffee.
Kushiel
> Master (21 cards)
> 2 Auspex
> 1 Charisma
> 2 Fame
> 1 Fortschritt Library
> 1 Heidelberg Castle, Germany
> 2 Jake Washington (Hunter)
> 1 KRCG News Radio
> 1 Mob Connections
> 2 Perfectionist
> 1 Powerbase: Tshwane
> 3 Vessel
> 2 Vicissitude
> 2 Wider View
I'm sad to see the skillcards. Auspex might be necessary, though with
only two in 90 cards it seems like a really agressive deck will kill
you if you don't have Lady Zhara in your opening draw anyway. I'd
rather see Ana replaced with some other AUS/obf vampires, since you
aren't using the Vicissitude for much and have other people to get
your War Ghouls. Even if you choose not to do that, the Vicissitude
skillcards should go, since their only real purpose here is Changeling
and you've got Obfuscate for far superior stealth than VIC can
provide.
Fortschritt should be a second Unmasking, but I'm assuming that
there's a card collection issue here.
Vessels are worthless here. You're beating guys up, so you don't need
to blow up Blood Dolls, and you badly need the faster bloat provided
by better blood-to-pool cards.
> Action (2 cards)
> 1 Graverobbing
> 1 Soul Decoration
Neither of these is particularly useful. Well, Graverobbing would be
if you had more guys would could play it. Aranthebes would be many
times better than these.
> Action Modifier (18 cards)
> 6 Changeling
> 3 Cloak the Gathering
> 3 Faceless Night
> 3 Lost in Crowds
> 3 Veil the Legions
>
> Reaction (12 cards)
> 3 My Enemy`s Enemy
> 6 On the Qui Vive
> 3 Telepathic Misdirection
Ditch the MEE for real bounce. This isn't the kind of deck where
you're likely to get much mileage out of bouncing bleeds in the wrong
direction.
> Combat (11 cards)
> 1 Breath of the Dragon
> 6 Chiropteran Marauder
> 1 Pulled Fangs
> 3 Trap
Not sure why you need the VIC combat. You shouldn't be getting
blocked, and have plenty of beefy allies to block rushes.
> Ally (12 cards)
> 1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> 1 Gregory Winter
> 1 Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
> 1 Vagabond Mystic
> 8 War Ghoul
Impundulu is really good. Repo Man might be worthwhile, given all his
abilities (untap whoever recruits him, fetch a taxi, block or become a
War Ghoul).
> Retainer (9 cards)
> 3 Corpse Balloon
> 1 J. S. Simmons, Esq.
> 1 Jackie Therman
> 1 Malajit Chandramouli
> 1 Mr. Winthrop
> 1 Revenant
> 1 Tasha Morgan
Malajit is probably too expensive, given that you've got Obfuscate.
Might be worth it to double up on JS and Tasha, since you can always
War Ghoul them if you draw a second copy, and that will double your
chances of increasing your ousting power.
When you say that you lack ousting power, are you finding that you
empty your prey's ready region with ally rush and then can't oust him,
or are you having some other issue?
John Eno
Peter D Bakija
>
> Here's another deck for review. Nothing particularly innovative,
> though I didn't see anyone else trying this particular crypt for War
> Ghouls when I looked through the TWDA. Seems like it should be a
> reasonable alternate to the Tailor and Piper based concepts.
Oh, Guadaedo Ghoul is awesome. Obfuscate and dominate make it go.
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 13, Max: 29, Avg: 5)
> -------------------------------------------
> 3 Ana Rita Montana aus dom obf VIC5 Tzimisce
> 3 Guedado aus obf vic 4 Tzimisce
> 3 Ilias cel Frumos aus vic 3 Tzimisce
> 3 Lady Zara Slatikov ANI AUS OBF VIC8 Tzimisce
One thing that makes this deck extra good? Imbued. Take out the 3x
Ilias and replace him with, like, 3x Beatrice or 2x Beratrice and
someone else. Put one of each Conviction in the deck (3 total). If you
have Beatrice in play, she bleeds for 3 at stealth due to Veils. If
she gets whacked or you are in a pinch, turn her into Ghoul chow and
play the other one.
Another possibility (which is what I did when I was playing this) was,
like, 5x Ana, 4x Guadado, 3x Beatrice. Use Ana's dom for Deflections.
-Peter
wumpus
On Sep 1, 10:28 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote:
> On Aug 31, 7:52 pm, wumpus <wump...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
>
> > Here's another deck for review. Nothing particularly innovative,
> > though I didn't see anyone else trying this particular crypt for War
> > Ghouls when I looked through the TWDA. Seems like it should be a
> > reasonable alternate to the Tailor and Piper based concepts.
>
> Oh, Guadaedo Ghoul is awesome. Obfuscate and dominate make it go.
>
> > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 13, Max: 29, Avg: 5)
> > -------------------------------------------
> > 3 Ana Rita Montana aus dom obf VIC5 Tzimisce
> > 3 Guedado aus obf vic 4 Tzimisce
> > 3 Ilias cel Frumos aus vic 3 Tzimisce
> > 3 Lady Zara Slatikov ANI AUS OBF VIC8 Tzimisce
>
> One thing that makes this deck extra good? Imbued. Take out the 3x
> Ilias and replace him with, like, 3x Beatrice or 2x Beratrice and
> someone else. Put one of each Conviction in the deck (3 total). If you
> have Beatrice in play, she bleeds for 3 at stealth due to Veils. If
> she gets whacked or you are in a pinch, turn her into Ghoul chow and
> play the other one.
Holy crap! That is a tremendous idea. I really don't like Ilias much
(inferior auspex and no obfuscate at all), but often need another
minion (who can bleed with Changeling and/or Heidelberg'd retainers).
Beatrice is ten times better! Plus nothing says 'togetherness' like
turning Imbued into War Ghouls.
> Another possibility (which is what I did when I was playing this) was,
> like, 5x Ana, 4x Guadado, 3x Beatrice. Use Ana's dom for Deflections.
I don't know about the dominate angle - I think I'll stick with auspex
bounce/intercept. But the Beatrice angle is +fun.
Thanks,
Alex
Meej
> Fortschritt should be a second Unmasking, but I'm assuming that
> there's a card collection issue here.
Just curious - what makes you say that? With 2 Unmaskings, the second
one drawn is always a dead card. With one Fortschritt and one
Unmasking, if you draw the Unmasking first the FSL becomes "Master: do
nothing" which is at least cycleable if you want to save that discard
phase action for something else. And if you draw the FSL first, the
Unmasking isn't even in your deck to be drawn later.
I can't see any situation where you'd want two of a Gehenna event
rather than one of the event and one Fortschritt.
- D.J.
wumpus
On Sep 1, 9:25 am, Kushiel <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 31, 7:52 pm, wumpus <wump...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Master (21 cards)
> > 2 Auspex
> > 1 Charisma
> > 2 Fame
> > 1 Fortschritt Library
> > 1 Heidelberg Castle, Germany
> > 2 Jake Washington (Hunter)
> > 1 KRCG News Radio
> > 1 Mob Connections
> > 2 Perfectionist
> > 1 Powerbase: Tshwane
> > 3 Vessel
> > 2 Vicissitude
> > 2 Wider View
>
> I'm sad to see the skillcards. Auspex might be necessary, though with
> only two in 90 cards it seems like a really agressive deck will kill
> you if you don't have Lady Zhara in your opening draw anyway.
Yeah, skillcards aren't my favorite thing either. The AUS cards are
there to increase my bounce ability. The deck doesn't tend to be
quite as vulnerable to stealth bleed as it might seem - the bounce is
really just to keep people honest - as it can produce significant
amounts of blockers with intercept pretty quickly, even without Lady
Zara. Still, as I said, I've been thinking about swapping out at
least one of the VIC cards, as VIC isn't that important.
> I'd
> rather see Ana replaced with some other AUS/obf vampires, since you
> aren't using the Vicissitude for much and have other people to get
> your War Ghouls.
A usual game for this deck involves getting out some one of the nerds
(Ilias, Guedado, Ana) and the Lady Zara, getting out a War Ghoul very
quickly based on their actions, and then probably not getting any more
vampires any time soon. I like Guedado for this purpose when I see
Tshwane early; otherwise I like Ana, 'cause VIC makes her very
dangerous to rush and gives her an additional stealth option. (And I
really don't like Ilias, but he'll do in a pinch.) Plus there's the
dominate on Ana for potential Graverobbing, though I'll grant that
that is mighty theoretical.
I like Peter's suggestion of adding Beatrice, so I'm planning to swap
out Ilias at this point, as I'd much rather pay the extra 2 pool for
obf/VIC at this point.
> Even if you choose not to do that, the Vicissitude
> skillcards should go, since their only real purpose here is Changeling
> and you've got Obfuscate for far superior stealth than VIC can
> provide.
If Ilias goes, then the VIC cards will probably go too.
> Fortschritt should be a second Unmasking, but I'm assuming that
> there's a card collection issue here.
I thought the collective wisdom decided that you should go with 1x
Fortschritt + 1x Unmasking over 2x Unmasking? (I didn't really
understand the argument, but in practice it seems to work out fine
this way.) In the former case you're looking to spend a master action
and two discard actions, though you get to cycle a card as part of the
master bit, which sort of recovers one discard action; in the latter
case you're spending two discard actions. I've got enough Unmasking
to do either, so I'm open to logic here.
> Vessels are worthless here. You're beating guys up, so you don't need
> to blow up Blood Dolls, and you badly need the faster bloat provided
> by better blood-to-pool cards.
I'm afraid that my experience does not bear this out. I often need to
dedicate my War Ghouls to defense for a significant period of the
early to mid game. And part of that defense is often keeping my
vampires from being rushed off the table. Which means that I see real
value in 1) blowing up Blood Dolls, 2) not having my pool gain depend
on Blood Dolls that may blow up (open to other suggestions, though),
and 3) trifleness to support more masters.
> > Action (2 cards)
> > 1 Graverobbing
> > 1 Soul Decoration
>
> Neither of these is particularly useful. Well, Graverobbing would be
> if you had more guys would could play it. Aranthebes would be many
> times better than these.
Everybody always gets excited when I play Soul Decoration, but I have
yet to actually use its cancel function, so you may be right. In
theory it's hosing bounce. Aranthebes is a great idea. He might even
be a reason to pull KRCG, which is expensive. (Any thoughts on KRCG
vs. WMRH in combination with the Ghouls?)
I've yet to actually see a Graverobbing come up, so, yeah, it is also
mostly theoretical at this point. Stealing someone with obf or AUS
would be really, really good, though, and there are a lot of minions
that have one or more of those disciplines.
> > Action Modifier (18 cards)
> > 6 Changeling
> > 3 Cloak the Gathering
> > 3 Faceless Night
> > 3 Lost in Crowds
> > 3 Veil the Legions
>
> > Reaction (12 cards)
> > 3 My Enemy`s Enemy
> > 6 On the Qui Vive
> > 3 Telepathic Misdirection
>
> Ditch the MEE for real bounce. This isn't the kind of deck where
> you're likely to get much mileage out of bouncing bleeds in the wrong
> direction.
I'm not depending on this bounce. It's there so that people don't
just send in all their bleeds blindly. The cheapness helps, but
you're probably right that they should all be TM. (Though the one
time I've used MEE to bounce a bleed, my grandpredator turned around
and bounced it to my prey (his predator)).
> > Combat (11 cards)
> > 1 Breath of the Dragon
> > 6 Chiropteran Marauder
> > 1 Pulled Fangs
> > 3 Trap
>
> Not sure why you need the VIC combat. You shouldn't be getting
> blocked, and have plenty of beefy allies to block rushes.
As noted, 'plenty' is subjective (subject to metagame). I'm often
either relying on vampires for some part of my defense (intercept via
AUS and/or retainers), or subject to significant amounts of rush. The
Marauders have come in very, very handy. And 1x Breath of Dragon,
like 1x Body Flare (or 1x AI in a deck with no bounce), is my way of
keeping people honest. The Fangs are silly, though, and will go.
Also, any thoughts on Trap vs. Boxed In? The latter could be used
defensively to keep vampires alive if stuck in an opposing Trap (or
other press based combat). I don't often need more than one press
with a Ghoul.
> > Ally (12 cards)
> > 1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> > 1 Gregory Winter
> > 1 Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
> > 1 Vagabond Mystic
> > 8 War Ghoul
>
> Impundulu is really good. Repo Man might be worthwhile, given all his
> abilities (untap whoever recruits him, fetch a taxi, block or become a
> War Ghoul).
I like Repo Man; he could go in for Gregory, who is a tad expensive
and more fragile than I'd like. He'd make the cab less marginal.
> > Retainer (9 cards)
> > 3 Corpse Balloon
> > 1 J. S. Simmons, Esq.
> > 1 Jackie Therman
> > 1 Malajit Chandramouli
> > 1 Mr. Winthrop
> > 1 Revenant
> > 1 Tasha Morgan
>
> Malajit is probably too expensive, given that you've got Obfuscate.
> Might be worth it to double up on JS and Tasha, since you can always
> War Ghoul them if you draw a second copy, and that will double your
> chances of increasing your ousting power.
Huh. Hadn't thought of doubling up on JS/Tasha. That's probably a
good idea.
> When you say that you lack ousting power, are you finding that you
> empty your prey's ready region with ally rush and then can't oust him,
> or are you having some other issue?
I had one game (four player) where I cleaned all the minions off the
ready region. It was casual and everybody conceded in the right
order, but you can't count on that happening in a tourney.
More usually, though, I'm holding off a predator (or two, if I've been
forced to kill the first one) and struggling to both clear out my
prey's bouncers and bleed him out with limited actions and bleed
pump. I sometimes get some mileage out of Fame, but it's hard to
count on, as it is very, very likely to be played by someone else in
my environment.
More actions is the base answer, so doubling up my cost reducers
(Charisma, Tshwane) seems like a good idea. The difference between
two Ghouls and three seems to be pretty critical.
Thanks,
Alex
Drain
Suddens and Washes are an issue. Fortschritt is a priority target for
these, sometimes even cross-table.
Drain
wumpus
> > Fortschritt should be a second Unmasking, but I'm assuming that
> > there's a card collection issue here.
>
> I thought the collective wisdom decided that you should go with 1x
> Fortschritt + 1x Unmasking over 2x Unmasking? (I didn't really
> understand the argument, but in practice it seems to work out fine
> this way.) In the former case you're looking to spend a master action
> and two discard actions, though you get to cycle a card as part of the
> master bit, which sort of recovers one discard action;
Meej got it right; I didn't. In the former case there's either a
master (partially offset) and a discard action OR there's two discards
OR a discard and a 'null' master action. So vaguely better for
Fortschritt. (Unless it gets Suddened/Washed as Drain points out.)
> in the latter
> case you're spending two discard actions. I've got enough Unmasking
> to do either, so I'm open to logic here.
Thanks,
Alex
Meej
> On 1 Set, 19:07, Meej <djchag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I can't see any situation where you'd want two of a Gehenna event
> > rather than one of the event and one Fortschritt.
>
> Suddens and Washes are an issue. Fortschritt is a priority target for
> these, sometimes even cross-table.
Yeah, that occurred to me post-posting. If you've absolutely gotta
get the event out, having a search-card that can get cancelled is a
bad thing. Fair enough.
Peter D Bakija
> Holy crap! That is a tremendous idea. I really don't like Ilias much
> (inferior auspex and no obfuscate at all), but often need another
> minion (who can bleed with Changeling and/or Heidelberg'd retainers).
> Beatrice is ten times better! Plus nothing says 'togetherness' like
> turning Imbued into War Ghouls.
Exactly! I mean, nothing demoralizes your opponents more than when
they beat Beatrice into the hospital, they feel good that she doesn't
have enough Conviction to get out, and then you crush all their hopes
and dreams by mulching her into a War Ghoul and immediately playing a
new Beatrice. It was regularly the high point of this deck :-)
> I don't know about the dominate angle - I think I'll stick with auspex
> bounce/intercept. But the Beatrice angle is +fun.
Oh, sure--that works too. Lady Zara is awesome in this deck too, what
with the OBF and all, and if she is in there, AUS bounce is the way to
go. I was going with the low end crypt (i.e. nothing but Ana,
Guadaedo, and Beatrice or so), so I had to go with the dominate
bounce, which worked pretty well.
I don't remember off hand, but you do have Powerbase Tshwane in there,
right?
-Peter
Kevin M.
> Kushiel wrote:
>> wumpus wrote:
>> Vessels are worthless here. You're beating guys up, so you don't
>> need to blow up Blood Dolls, and you badly need the faster bloat
>> provided by better blood-to-pool cards.
>
> I'm afraid that my experience does not bear this out. I often need
> to dedicate my War Ghouls to defense for a significant period of the
> early to mid game. And part of that defense is often keeping my
> vampires from being rushed off the table. Which means that I see
> real value in 1) blowing up Blood Dolls, 2) not having my pool gain
> depend on Blood Dolls that may blow up (open to other suggestions,
> though), and 3) trifleness to support more masters.
You could spend fewer War Ghoul actions to (predator) defense
if you were +2 on blood (via Blood Doll) instead of -1 on blood
(via Vessel), since you could take a bleed or two before pouncing.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Please bid on my auctions! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
suoli
>
> It's been fun to play, and fairly resilient. It tends to be a little
> short on oust power, so I'm thinking about pullling a few retainers
> (Malajit, Revenant) and Pulled Fangs for a Dragonbound and something,
> maybe a second Charisma and Tshwane?
Use Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers as ousting power in rushy decks.
Haze
> Please bid on my auctions!http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
I think you mean +1 on Blood Doll and -1 on Vessel...
Kevin M.
> "Kevin M." wrote:
>> wumpus wrote:
>>> Kushiel wrote:
>>>> wumpus wrote:
>>>> Vessels are worthless here. You're beating guys up, so you don't
>>>> need to blow up Blood Dolls, and you badly need the faster bloat
>>>> provided by better blood-to-pool cards.
>>
>>> I'm afraid that my experience does not bear this out. I often need
>>> to dedicate my War Ghouls to defense for a significant period of the
>>> early to mid game. And part of that defense is often keeping my
>>> vampires from being rushed off the table. Which means that I see
>>> real value in 1) blowing up Blood Dolls, 2) not having my pool gain
>>> depend on Blood Dolls that may blow up (open to other suggestions,
>>> though), and 3) trifleness to support more masters.
>>
>> You could spend fewer War Ghoul actions to (predator) defense
>> if you were +2 on blood (via Blood Doll) instead of -1 on blood
>> (via Vessel), since you could take a bleed or two before pouncing.
>
Vessel costs 1, therefore you're at -1 to begin.
Blood Doll costs 0 and gains 1 immediately, therefore +1,
which is +2 on Vessel. That's what I meant to say.
Sorry I mangled it in my original text.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Juggernaut1981
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 13, Max: 29, Avg: 5)
> -------------------------------------------
> 3 Ana Rita Montana aus dom obf VIC5 Tzimisce
> 3 Guedado aus obf vic 4 Tzimisce
> 3 Ilias cel Frumos aus vic 3 Tzimisce
> 3 Lady Zara Slatikov ANI AUS OBF VIC8 Tzimisce
> Ally (12 cards)
> 1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> 1 Gregory Winter
> 1 Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
> 1 Vagabond Mystic
> 8 War Ghoul
>
> Retainer (9 cards)
> 3 Corpse Balloon
> 1 J. S. Simmons, Esq.
> 1 Jackie Therman
> 1 Malajit Chandramouli
> 1 Mr. Winthrop
> 1 Revenant
> 1 Tasha Morgan
>
With this BIG WAD of Allies & Retainers, why isn't Szechenyi Mother of
Horrors making an appearance? Sure she doesn't have the "outferiors"
but AUS, VIC and "untap when recruiting/employing" you get a free
untap to flick... Surely that can't be bad?
[Insert Chump Here] grabs a Corpse Balloon... Szechenyi turns it into
a War Ghoul, then untaps at the end of the turn because she's awesome
like that.
But I concur, Impundulu is schweeeet and even though they are Imbued
*spits on ground* those might be a good addition to the deck.
Nick M
> Howdy,
>
> Here's another deck for review. Nothing particularly innovative,
> though I didn't see anyone else trying this particular crypt for War
> Ghouls when I looked through the TWDA. Seems like it should be a
> reasonable alternate to the Tailor and Piper based concepts.
Hi,
I have been playing a similar deck.
The plan is to influence out Zara to block/flick and one of the small
vamps to get some retainers in play.
Then get the War Ghouls in play and start rushing. Bleeding whenever
possible.
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 1 max: 8 average: 4.66667
------------------------------------------------------------
4x Lady Zara Slatikov 8 ANI AUS OBF VIC bishop Tzimisce:4
2x Ana Rita Montana 5 VIC aus dom obf Tzimisce:3
2x Guedado 4 aus obf vic Tzimisce:4
2x Piotr Andreikov 2 aus Tzimisce:3
2x Tupdog 1 POT VIS Gargoyle:3
Library [70 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [8]
1x Abbot
6x Fiendish Tongue
1x Soul Decoration
Action Modifier [12]
2x Changeling
2x Cloak the Gathering
2x Elder Impersonation
4x Forgotten Labyrinth
2x Veil the Legions
Ally [9]
1x Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
1x Ossian
1x Vagabond Mystic
6x War Ghoul
Combat [7]
1x Dead-End Alley
3x Fake Out
3x Trap
Equipment [1]
1x Bowl of Convergence
Master [14]
1x Creepshow Casino
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
2x Jake Washington (Hunter)
1x Library Hunting Ground
2x Life in the City
1x Mob Connections
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Secure Haven
2x Villein
Reaction [12]
1x Eyes of Argus
2x My Enemy's Enemy
2x On the Qui Vive
2x Read the Winds
4x Telepathic Misdirection
1x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Retainer [7]
2x Corpse Balloon
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Jackie Therman
1x Malajit Chandramouli
1x Mr. Winthrop
1x Tasha Morgan
My deck needs to be a bit faster. Maybe more bleed, and less block.
Nick M
Kushiel
> Just curious - what makes you say that?
The math works out to be:
Fortschritt + Unmasking = one MPA + one DPA
2x Unmasking = 2x DPA
Master phase actions are much, much more powerful than discard phase
actions, so I'd much rather spend a DPA than an MPA.
> With one Fortschritt and one
> Unmasking, if you draw the Unmasking first the FSL becomes "Master: do
> nothing"
That's a sadness-making MPA you just spent, there.
John Eno
Kushiel
> I like Peter's suggestion of adding Beatrice, so I'm planning to swap
> out Ilias at this point, as I'd much rather pay the extra 2 pool for
> obf/VIC at this point.
Fair enough. That is a great idea that he had.
> I thought the collective wisdom decided that you should go with 1x
> Fortschritt + 1x Unmasking over 2x Unmasking?
I explained this in greater depth to Meej, but wouldn't you rather
spend that MPA doing something awesome that you can't do during your
discard phase?
> I'm afraid that my experience does not bear this out. I often need to
> dedicate my War Ghouls to defense for a significant period of the
> early to mid game. And part of that defense is often keeping my
> vampires from being rushed off the table.
Ah, okay. I assumed a low-combat metagame, since War Ghouls tend to
just get borked in high-combat metagames.
I still wouldn't put Vessels into this deck if I was building it, for
the reasons that Kevin M cites, but I'm not going to try to argue with
your actual play data. Vessels it is!
> Everybody always gets excited when I play Soul Decoration, but I have
> yet to actually use its cancel function, so you may be right. In
> theory it's hosing bounce.
You should probably have trashed your prey's bouncer with War Ghouls
before bleeding anyway.
> Aranthebes is a great idea. He might even
> be a reason to pull KRCG, which is expensive. (Any thoughts on KRCG
> vs. WMRH in combination with the Ghouls?)
Run them both, and Aranthebes, if you want to block stuff. Even if you
don't, WMRH is likely better if you're in a low-stealth metagame.
Remember that WMRH isn't any more expensive than KRCG until it fails
you twice, and is always better if you think that you might be lending
out that intercept to other players.
> I'm not depending on this bounce. It's there so that people don't
> just send in all their bleeds blindly.
Yet you said that you've found that the deck lacks ousting power.
Besides being useful when you're being bled by someone other than your
predator, TM also adds to your ousting power.
> Also, any thoughts on Trap vs. Boxed In? The latter could be used
> defensively to keep vampires alive if stuck in an opposing Trap (or
> other press based combat). I don't often need more than one press
> with a Ghoul.
Sounds like a pretty good sell for the Box to me.
> More usually, though, I'm holding off a predator (or two, if I've been
> forced to kill the first one)
I'd much rather you included enough defense to not have to kill your
predator, but you probably know that about me by now. :)
John Eno
Meej
> On Sep 1, 2:07 pm, Meej <djchag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just curious - what makes you say that?
> 2x Unmasking = 2x DPA
>
> Master phase actions are much, much more powerful than discard phase
> actions, so I'd much rather spend a DPA than an MPA.
Understandable, especially with enough other ways to discard/cycle
cards.
> > With one Fortschritt and one
> > Unmasking, if you draw the Unmasking first the FSL becomes "Master: do
> > nothing"
>
> That's a sadness-making MPA you just spent, there.
Sure, but you're only going to spend it on that nothing if you didn't
need it for something better. If you have a better MPA, then the
later FSL draw just becomes a DPA instead, just like the Unmasking
would have been.
It still seems to me that if you draw the FSL first, it's better for
deck flow (provided you can spare the MPA to begin with, of course,
which isn't a given in many cases). And if you draw the FSL second,
it's potentially better for flow since you have two options on how to
clear it out of your hand.
The only problem is that whole "MPA to get the efficiency" thing,
which is a valid point if you're short on MPA's. At 21/90 with only 5
trifles, the original deck as posted is probably too short on MPA's to
take advantage of FSL, but I can't see it as an absolute position like
it sounded you were stating.
- D.J.
Jarkko Suvela
>
> Here's another deck for review. Nothing particularly innovative,
> though I didn't see anyone else trying this particular crypt for War
> Ghouls when I looked through the TWDA. Seems like it should be a
> reasonable alternate to the Tailor and Piper based concepts.
Howdy do...
I tried warghouls with Lady Zara and reckoned that I'm better off
with just Tzimmie clan disciplines.
Made a 60-card deck with Archbishops, Papillons and Villeins to get a
fast pool/bloodgain. They gave some vote defense too.
I'm about to Dabblerize the current deck, since then you can get
retainer/ally + Warghoul the same turn with a single minion (Corrupt
Constr./Corpse Balloon+Mind of the Wilds=Dabbler)
Though I think easier is to make Guedado and Ana Rita anarchs, use
Piper and Smoke'n'Mirrors (plus you get to play World is a Canvas at 3
disciplines!!!?!)
Any way you decide to make your ghoulie deck, 90 cards library needs
over 10 ghoulies to get them in time... unless you have alternative
plan for the deck, I'd suggest you tighten your deck into smaller
size.
-J
Kushiel
> The only problem is that whole "MPA to get the efficiency" thing,
> which is a valid point if you're short on MPA's.
Okay, but if your deck isn't short on MPAs, you're doing something
wrong. When given a choice between Awesome and Accomplishable By Other
Means, I'll go with Awesome.
> At 21/90 with only 5
> trifles, the original deck as posted is probably too short on MPA's to
> take advantage of FSL, but I can't see it as an absolute position like
> it sounded you were stating.
Looks like I know a certain somebody who needs to be sent off to re-
Neducation Camp!
John Eno