Justicar Retribution - LSJ contradiction
Pedro Coelho
"1) I have Constanza Vinti in play. My prey has Ventrue in play and
passes Justicar Retribution. Does Constanza burn? According to the
ruling, yes, but I just wanted confirmation."
LSJ confirmed that Costanza is burned in such situation.
In another thread, also about Justicar Retribution, another person
asked:
"What about conditional bleed bonuses? Would Queen Anne be burned if
her prey had a ready Tremere? According to Errata, this bonus is
actually dependent on whether the Methuselah she bleeds has a ready
Tremere, so her "current bleed" is dependent on which Methuselah she
chooses to bleed. Still, would she be burned if ALL other methuselahs
had a ready Tremere?"
LSJ answered: "According to errata, she only gets her bonus when "the
Methuselah
she bleeds controls a ..." [RTR 960530] So, when she's not bleeding,
the bonus doesn't apply."
I understand that this second answer implies that when Queen Anne is
not bleeding, her current bleed is 1 (because the bonus doesn´t
apply). Yet, it has been said that Costanza is burned in a Justicar
Retribution referendum if her controller´s prey has a ready ventrue,
thus, the referendum treats her as if having a current bleed of 3 or
more, even thought she´s not bleeding at the time of the referendum.
Both Costanza´s and Queen Anne´s increased bleed are conditional (and
Cornelius Otavius´ too), but the answers are different, so I´d like
to know which case is correct... do they burn or not?
Thanks for the help!
John Flournoy
Pedro Coelho wrote:
> LSJ answered: "According to errata, she only gets her bonus when "the
> Methuselah
> she bleeds controls a ..." [RTR 960530] So, when she's not bleeding,
> the bonus doesn't apply."
>
> (http://groups.google.com.br/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/7f38d15b5e81de05/f1f5fb2ffb42fc12?q=justicar+retribution&rnum=2#f1f5fb2ffb42fc12)
>
> Both Costanza´s and Queen Anne´s increased bleed are conditional (and
> Cornelius Otavius´ too), but the answers are different, so I´d like
> to know which case is correct... do they burn or not?
They would burn - note the 'RTR 960530'? That was a ruling from the
rules team in May 1996, in a post you reference which LSJ made in 1998.
The post about Costanza is much more recent one (2003); I'd assume that
that ruling is currently valid and the one that was mentioned almost 8
years ago has since been corrected and/or made no longer valid.
> Thanks for the help!
-John Flournoy
invisibl...@gmail.com
> > Both Costanza´s and Queen Anne´s increased bleed are conditional (and
> > Cornelius Otavius´ too), but the answers are different, so I´d like
> > to know which case is correct... do they burn or not?
>
> They would burn - note the 'RTR 960530'? That was a ruling from the
> rules team in May 1996, in a post you reference which LSJ made in 1998.
>
> The post about Costanza is much more recent one (2003); I'd assume that
> that ruling is currently valid and the one that was mentioned almost 8
> years ago has since been corrected and/or made no longer valid.
Hmm. A question came up last week on The Path of Blood about whether or
not a vampire with +bleed can be Masked. When I searched the newsgroup
for a ruling on it, I came up with this as the most recent:
If that is the most recent, and if John Flournoy is correct in the post
above, isn't there a discrepancy here? It would seem that both rulings
couldn't be correct simultaneously, and the ruling I linked above is
newer than the one positing that Constanza would burn.
John Eno
LSJ
Justicar Retribution checks the bleed amount the minion would have
when bleeding his or her prey with a successful default bleed action.
Mask checks whether effects have been applied.
No inconsistency -- they just check different things.
--
That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet.
Keep a little and let a little come back to me.
LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
invisibl...@gmail.com
> Justicar Retribution checks the bleed amount the minion would have
> when bleeding his or her prey with a successful default bleed action.
>
> Mask checks whether effects have been applied.
>
> No inconsistency -- they just check different things.
Gotcha. Thanks, LSJ.
John Eno