What Would You Like to See in VTES Storylines?
echia...@yahoo.com
particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
to see.
This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
thought that might be useful include:
#1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
#2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
see in future storylines?
#3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
future storylines?
#4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
I look forward to seeing your responses.
With regards,
Eric Chiang
VTES Storyline Coordinator
Juggernaut1981
wrote:
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
>
> This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
> comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
> thought that might be useful include:
>
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
Least Liked Storylines: The ones that seemed to be poorly constructed
as a story and as literature. I understand that there will always be
issues transporting the storyline into different languages but I'd
still want to have engaging text.
>
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
Whatever will make for an engaging story-arc. As an Australian, it is
a bit frustrating for everything to be "Over in the Old Countries" but
then the player base for VTES is over there anyway. Maybe having some
adventures further East might add something to it.
>
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
I liked the Centre-Deck concept used in the Imperator Storyline
Tourneys, it provided a nice way to change up the tables between
rounds. Plus it also added in another angle into everyone's hand. I
didn't get the chance to play with them, but the Motivation cards
looked good and seemed to add another interesting angle to play.
>
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
Would it be possible to have Storyline Only cards rather than
Storyline Promos (i.e. the cards are valid for the Storyline but not
valid for general tournament play?) Having these sorts of cards in a
"centre deck" or in an "untargetable ready region" could provide spice
to play.
Nice printable posters that can be easily done by Kinkos etc onto A3
or similar would be very good. I understand we'd need to beg borrow
and suck up to artists to get artwork done now, but it might be a
chance for lesser-knowns to catapult themselves into greater
exposure. (Hopefully we wouldn't get Neo-flections...)
Curevei
wrote:
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
>
> This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
> comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
> thought that might be useful include:
>
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
Actually, probably easiest to just go through them all.
Baltimore - I had forgotten everything about this except the winners/
reward card. Boring.
Eye of Hazimel - Maybe my favorite as it introduced interesting rules
that weren't overwhelming.
Lambach's Legion - Don't recall anything about it except the crappy
Adv. Lambach card.
Infernal Plague - Really like the concept of the auction. Had a bunch
of problems getting the number right. But, rather than introducing
new cards, it was more about new rules, which I think makes more
sense.
Nergal - Already tired of infernal storylines. Nergal player was
interesting but not fun. I played Nergal once and it was obvious that
you just needed to beat down on people mercilessly. Also, having the
mechanic only in the finals was suboptimal. Not to say I didn't enjoy
it. I played in four of them and found it amusing, but then, I also
played in four finals.
Cultists - Lame. The special deck thing was already trite. The power
level of it was over the top. The plot was so pedestrian.
Anarchs and Alastors - I wasn't expecting much going in as I kind of
saw the point of storyline play being to support a clan, but multiple
drafts is awesome, so much more interesting than regular, single
drafts, and we learned how fantastical drafting Dark Sovereigns was.
Warlord - Not sure why this isn't on the website, don't really
remember what order it was in in the series. I had little interest
since it required playing Camarilla clans which I think are already
way overplayed in events. The random deck thing was usually annoying
even if it let me put a bunch of cards in that no one ever plays.
Eden's Legacy - Nice concepts, very broken environment. Motivated by
Knowledge was absurd as it allowed people to constantly dig for
answers, also overencouraged blood gain.
Bloodlines - Perfect concept, Lilith's Blessing did a lot to ruin the
enjoyment, though. Amazing how much more fun certain clans are when
there's no scarce penalty and, to a lesser extent, no grouping rule.
Tedious levels of bloat. Further proof Tupdog should never have been
printed, though giving real Gargoyles a chance would have worked
better by just limiting the no slave disad to unique Gargoyles.
In general, I think storylines are better when the distortions are
limited. Metagaming shouldn't be "everyone will play a bunch of
Villeins, so I'll run half a dozen Suddens" but something more
subtle. Common or special decks got old fast.
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
Going from the mechanical to the flavor, the Baltimore flavor was
about right even if it was so trivial that I had forgotten about the
event. No more infernal, if I actually cared what the story was,
which I don't. Cultist flavor might have been okay if there was any
context or follow up for it. Really, the flavor of the events is
unimportant to me since there's no meaningful follow up in how the
game is changed mechanically to account for it. Compare with L5R
storylines where factions get meaningfully impacted based on what
people play.
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
More subtle ones. Nergal was playing a different game all together.
Cultist deck didn't read that strong but was heinous in play. Trying
some of the more likely variations you might see in a non-storyline
event, like dropping grouping or making Trophies better would make
sense. As interesting as the infernal auction was to see what people
would do, I think that sort of mechanic requires too much thinking.
More positive ones. Eye of Hazimel was mostly a benefit. Probably
want to find things in the game that suck and find some mechanic that
rewards them, rather than, say, Prophecies League style where the
games can be exasperating.
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
I think storyline promos are a massive draw, mainly because there's no
other real reward. You try to win with your clan, find that other
people aren't interested in playing with them, so you have
(frequently) no chance of helping your clan. For those few clans that
have any chance, most of the reward cards sucked, so you didn't really
win anything, anyway. Even if a card gets made that doesn't suck,
like Baltimore Purge, talking about adding one card to a game - the
overall game impact is trivial.
People like me really like variant rules. Many of the people I've
played with don't. So, the variant rules don't seem to be much of a
draw.
About the only thing I can see is increasing player fame. Make a
bigger deal of the individuals who win events, though that sort of
undermines that storylines are supposed to be about the storyline, and
it's not necessarily all that fair, either.
Amenophobis
wrote:
I would like to see the Storylines focus more on the war between
Camarilla and Sabbat, as well as the 4 independent clans which seem to
be the jokers in this struggle.
What I wouldn't like to see is yet more of the extremely exotic parts
of the WoD. I think we have explored that road long enough. Let's get
back to the roots.
It would be cool to decide the fate of major cities in the US and
Europe. :)
It also would be nice to have the Gangrel re-enter the Camarilla in
one way or another. There could be a card like Giovanni Acceptance.
Bloodlines, Anarchs and BH could play a small part, but should stay in
the background at least for while.
I wouldn't mind if cards were available online to print out for the
event. They could still be designed and playtested by LSJ and his
team.
Amenophobis
I would like to see the focus of the Storylines reset on the Camarilla
vs Sabbat theme. I mean, there is big potential, and oWoD players like
that. Bloodlines and exotic themes are, well, a bit too exotic all the
time. :)
Let's fight over major US and European cities. Let's see what the
Independents have in store to tip the balance between the Camarilla
and the Sabbat.
Bloodlines, BH and Anarchs should be in there as well, but not as a
major theme, like in the past.
How about having the Gangrel rejoin the Camarilla? We could have a
hypothetical card like Giovanni Acceptance.
Speaking of cards - there is no reason LSJ and his team couldn't
design and playtest official cards for the storyline events to be
printed out from online sources.
That would be great. :)
Vincent
hitting the table. I also liked the Cultist, Nergal and Lilith's
storyline, even though they were clearly unbalanced.
#2. I guess something really canonical should be nice (Camarilla vs
Sabbat and the Independant/Laibon running their own agenda), something
not too complicated.
#3. No special cards per side (because they tend to be unbalanced),
rather more global special rules (Camarilla and Sabbat may enter
combat against each other, or the edge gives 2 pool during the untap),
or cards (not tournament legal anyway) that starts uncontrolled and
that players may steal from each other.
#4. Storyline cards are not necessary. I'd rather have a clan/sect
rating up to date that has an influence on the following storylines.
Vincent
> Speaking of cards - there is no reason LSJ and his team couldn't
> design and playtest official cards for the storyline events to be
> printed out from online sources.
You can remove the "official" word from your sentence. There can be
storyline cards that can be printed for the event, but they will never
be official in the sense of "for legal play".
GreenO
wrote:
> thoughts on storylines and what you'd like to see.
>
I'd like to see them ranked. They are constructed events and the
skills for the construction of the decks to whatever rules required
should count towards your constructed ranking. Following that: any
'gimmick' employed should not render the game a craps shoot.
M
Juggernaut1981
> rating up to date that has an influence on the following storylines.
It would be interesting to have a digital map of the Sabbat/Cam/Indie/
Free States in the world based on things like Storylines. Plus it
gives whomever prints the next edition an easy way to allocate titles
to vampires around the world. If Sydney became Sabbat (from a
storyline) then in a coming edition the Archbishop of Sydney would be
created. If Singapore became a Free State, then a vampire might be
printed that was the Baron of Singapore... and so on. There are heaps
of cities out there that could be affected and it would be a good way
to add a bit more "life" to the Cam-Sab struggle than "Oh look, they
want to do something bad in Europe... again... who would have thunk
it..."
A-P Alestalo
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
Least favorite: the last one. It was rigged to favor the Bahari.
Lilith´s Blessing was so clearly superior that it was not even funny.
It was difficult to have meaningful games when a single Loyalist
player was faced with a table full of Bahari.
Favorite: Imperator. Not because of the mechanics but the
backstory. I have traditionally rooted for Gangrel.
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
More traditional Camarilla vs Sabbat vs Independent. We have had
enough Infernalism for a long while.
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
Generic ones that affect members of a whole Sect or a Clan. Like a
chance to attack titled vampires as an action that costs blood if you
are an Anarch ( for example ).
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines?
Unsure.
Satrapa
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
Faith and read fluff about vampires you are using so there will be no
more resurrected vampires (Smiling Jack) or acting as they are someone
else (Maris Streck).
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
I didn't played a lot of them but I read about all of them.
I like Baltimore for its range (fate of single city). I don't like
overly epic storylines like the last one.
I liked (and played) Edens Legacy and it was imho one of the best
storylines. I liked motivation mechanic since it added something more
to add to result with your win than only clan and vampire. Topic was
good and nothing world breaking.
I liked one thing in the last storyline - it let people play bloodline
like normal clans not poor cousins. Rest was horrible. Lilith's
Blessing was OP when compared with G&M. I felt like it was one huge
setup. Whats more Cybele was one of the most important vampire
(standingwise) but her reward was death in the end. I hated how
bloodlines acted not according to either theme nor description (polite
scholars with passive founder - Kiasyds was made into fascists led by
bloodthirsty tyrant I can write more about it and I'm going to if
someone will want to continue this topic).
I liked that Montreal storyline let people play vampires according to
their geography (it would be great if every vampire would have their
home set and was able to be in crypt with their fluff neighbors no
matter their group.
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
Nothing too epic, nothing infernal. Mostly local stuff from all over
the world (so everyone who play vtes have a chance to have storyline
based in their area eventually).
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
Something like motivations. Results focused more upon single packs or
vampires not entire clans/bloodlines. I want players more often work
for their sect, city or anything else than clans.
>
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
It can be rules that work similar to cards (like just making stuff
like motivations, lilith blessing, G&M as a rules wrote on 1 sheet of
paper). IMHO that would be great. If storylines cannot be counted by
statements (something like: "I chose my Bloodbrothers as spies inside
Bahari" or "I try to destroy the Eye of Hazimel") it would be great if
there could be more to say than nominate key vampire, declare your
clan and from time to time chose side.
technobabble66
I've only played 1 or 2 Storyline events - namely the latest
Bloodlines one and a local one organised by the prince(s) of
Melbourne. Both had great aspects. In particular, the Bloodlines one
dispensed with some significant handicaps for the bloodline clans
(scarce, limited crypt, slave master) - this meant the bloodline clans
suddenly had a significant boost and variation to their TWD potential.
The Lilith's blessing was ridiculously overpowered compared to G&M
(and did seem like a v obvious setup), tho the basic idea of choose
your startup effect was good. The local storyline used a central deck
of created gehenna cards that gradually flipped into play every few
rounds. It was a great idea with interesting gehenna creations
utilised (inc The Rising). The idea was to play 10 games over 10 wks,
so after a game or two everyone started to evolve new approaches, and
the impending doom of untouchable global effects produced a variation
on standard play that was v enjoyable.
So i'd say the best elements were ones that had relatively global
effects and reduced certain limiting aspects of the game.
The main direction to take the Storylines into then would be to
examine areas of the game that seem limiting and alter them. Maybe the
Storylines could be used to beta-test options considered for
introduction in later sets.
One obvious area that i and a few others enjoy whinging about is the
limitation of combat compared to bleed/vote. So maybe a few storylines
could introduce/test global effects that improve combat in some way
(Rushing, Trophies!!) or reduce the effectiveness of the stronger
elements, eg: reduce bleed or vote capability. Another way to do that,
rather than just have a storyline rule/card that allows anyone to rush
anyone might be to boost other weaknesses of the combat strategy - eg:
stop bloat, or every can bloat more easily; similarly everyone can
bleed more easily (+1-2 bleed per minion) but at less stealth (-4
stealth) or everyone can bounce, etc. I appreciate they could be
poorly balanced initial ideas, but you get the gist of it...
Maybe any successful global effects could ultimately be replicated by
several standard cards in a later set, etc
Btw, i like the idea of geographical based storylines - such as
playgroups fighting for their individual city and that could effect
later titles or later storylines, and also try some other story
locations - half the world's population lives in Asia! (Asia is west
of the USA, btw. Other side of the Pacific...).
I should probably add i don't give a fig for the background story,
really. I just like the challenge of new rules/effects, etc. (esp when
they're somewhat balanced, or where everyone gets a benefit/penalty).
And less infernal stuff, pls
And more combat ;-)
Thanks
Asnek
i have attendet almost every storyline and only those were interesting
when some new mechanics was introduces - Eye of hazimel for example,
nergal torunament etc...
maybe some quite usual rules should be dropped as well (75% crypt) and
clan reward card should be replaced by for example tactics reward card
(bleed, politics etc)
so some new mechanics may be interesting. for example (we tryed all of
those here arround):
- permanent reversal fortune effect (with reversed influence as well)
- minimal crypt average (we set 7,5 and it was good)
- commons only
- maximum for card type (we set 15 so 15 actions, 15 reaction etc...
at that time there were no ashurs so maybe them should be banned)
- next turn offering - at the end of turn of acting metuselah players
may offere pool in auction to be playing next turn. winner is playing
his next turn instead of prey of metuselah that finished his turn (at
this game we banned any pool gain cards and political flux). if there
is no offer prey gets the turn
definitely there should be small target and chalenge as well to deck
building. manytimes playing storyline doesn't require any deck change
at all introducing new rules should introduce as well new chalnges for
players.
#2:
as mentioned above common plots should be fine. sabbat vs camarila.
young vs elders. hunters vs vampires. anarchs vs rest of the world
#3:
some of them were mentioend above...
but definitively new mechanics and/or mechanics that change regular
game into something new
#4:
there can be still some interesting revards like sleeves, T-shirts,
edges, etc.
only card that i will really welcome are corruption/amnarch counters
as they were only from one storyline torunament and for exaplnme here
around got prize of good rare (aproximately 5 E)
Blooded Sand
ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
I quite liked the Reveredn storyline mechanics, so its up there.
Sick and tired of all the pro-infernalism storylines....
#2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
see in future storylines?
as mentioned more than once, some sect vs sect vs sect storylines
#3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
future storylines?
The centre deck concept is good, maybe also something which alllows a
greater use of the red list and trophy mechanics.
#4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
Just well created storylines are enough.
Kushiel
> #4. Storyline cards are not necessary. I'd rather have a clan/sect
> rating up to date that has an influence on the following storylines.
That would be very, very cool.
John Eno
Kushiel
wrote:
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
The takeaway is that, almost without exception, storylines have had an
inverse relationship between number of special rules and fun. The more
of the former there were, the less of the latter tended to happen.
Keep them relatively simple.
John Eno
brandonsantacruz
wrote:
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
>
> This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
> comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
> thought that might be useful include:
>
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
I liked the Rise of the Imperator storyline the most because I'm
mostly a Camarilla player and the deck in the middle of the table was
a lot of fun. The multiple drafts for Anarchs and Alastors was good,
but you might want to figure out a way to allow for more deck
continuity(side-board?). Bidding for cards was cool.
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
More war between the sects, less infernalism. Lesbians are cool and
all, but really lets have more fighting, more take-overs, etc.
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
See #1
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
For most/all storylines, there will need to be printable promo-only
cards. Depending on how things go, these could be formatted so that
they can be backed(The Oath, I'm looking at you!) and used in
tournaments with proper sleeves. Special rules are alright, but
shouldn't be too cumbersome. Please don't aways stick to 75% of one
clan because that severely limits crypt construction. If there can't
be cards, can there be some shwag like play mats, counters, and edge
markers? Not sure where the money would come from, but there you go.
Brandon
Jozxyqk
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
I liked the ones with special rules you could build a deck for,
when I had time to build a deck.
But who has time for that anymore? Simpler special rules, so
you can just show up and whip out a deck, are always a plus.
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
Blood Dimmed Tides. I mean, really. This.
Also, I'd like to see a revival of "local storylines"; I know we've done
a few of those in Boston (where the former coordinator got his start)
and they were fun. Try to encourage more of these, and use the local
results to influence the overarcing story.
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
See #1. Perhaps a special deck in the middle, perhaps a special card
or 2, but nothing that gives a huge advantage to someone who analyzes
the rules and builds "the perfect deck". That scares away potential
participants.
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
I think that the people who continue to play VTES are playing primarily
because it's fun. But the occasional custom created item (maybe a T-shirt
or an appropriate custom edge) would be cool.
3rdshiftr
We have been playtesting the San Francisco Storyline here in Berkeley
for the past few weeks; rules are here:
http://bayvtesevents.blogspot.com/
This format could easily be for anywhere, (Singapore, Johannesburg,
etc) where Cam, Sabbat, and Indie/Laibon/Anarch are jostling for
control. Major rules changes: gain the edge with a successful vote or
bleed, and you cannot gain pool unless you have the edge. A lot of
other dynamics for any kind of deck, but so far we are enjoying it.
With no prize support expected for our first tournament on 10/24, I
really like the rules change since it forces us to change our static
metagaming, and the 4 uncontrolled powerbases on the table are all
interesting, though one, Turf War (any minion can call a referendum to
take control of Turf War. Tap TW to make your prey burn 2 pool) is a
main focus of the whole event, but as co-designer Ian Thompson said,
it is thematic to battling over an anarch-controlled city.
There are many moving parts, perhaps too many for some, but just
slapping down Villeins on your fatties won't work, you have to work
for that edge. With no prize support for our first tournament Oct. 24
in Berkeley, we are just gunning for bragging rights and the chance to
influence the next chapters, including some element of ~~Eastern
Kindred~~~ ...the rules and cards are there for anyone to try it.
We refuse to let V:TES fade, and are actively trying to inject some
new dynamics into the game. We will see how others feel about it soon.
Alex O.
Rehlow
wrote:
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
>
> This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
> comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
> thought that might be useful include:
>
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
>
I liked them all since I like playing Vtes and I like alternate rules.
I personally like the Imperator event, but I think forcing Camarilla
clans kept some players away from the event.
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
>
Sect warfare as mentioned by others sounds good to me.
No more infernal focus (that has been done enough).
Fighting over a city or state or country would be cool if its close to
your hometown. Don't know how much appeal it would have for people
half a world away though.
Something that doesn't restrict clans.
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
>
Rules that effect everyone. When you choose a side and each side has a
different rule you have to make sure they are balanced and there
hasn't been a good track record of that.
I thought the bidding pool in the first Infernal storyline was cool,
but it didn't turn out so good when players didn't know how to
properly bid.
I would really like to see a constructed event where draft text was
legal.
Rules where you can bring your everyday deck and it will still work
fine. Locally there are a lot of casual players that don't prepare for
a storyline and just want to play their regular deck (still forcing
75% one clan is fine by me).
A single blanket rule that shakes up the game. All vampires have -1
bleed (with maybe a storyline only card that you can steal as a D
action to get rid of this while you control it). Vampires can D rush
younger vampires and allies. All vampires can call a +1 stealth
political action to do 2? pool damage to their prey. But only use one
rule per storyline.
The common library used in the Imperator event was a neat idea. Maybe
try some different ideas about how the cards rotate through it. Maybe
have everyone bring 5? cards to go into the library (different colored
sleeves or make a list to get your cards back afterwards).
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
>
This one is a toughie. I know the promos were a draw for me. I felt it
encouraged me to try and get to multiple storylines and storylines
late in the season when your favorite clan might be out of the running
already. If extra work is required to play in a storyline, some sort
of incentive is needed.
I would like to see storyline only cards. Even if they can only be
used for one event they still inject new life to the game.
Maybe start doing un-rewards and in the next storyline penalize
winning clans. Its easy to win with Ventrue and they don't need a
reward. Maybe make up a storyline only card that penalizes them in the
next storyline if they won the previous.
Later,
~Rehlow
DeathInABottle
This is an excellent idea.
XZealot
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
Boobs
Peter D Bakija
wrote:
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
Here is my vote:
I'm completely unconcerned with the actual story of the storyline. I
don't really care what the story is. I don't care about the characters
in the story. For my money, that is all just window dressing that can
be as detailed as folks who are interested in that sort of thing want
it to be, but personally, I'm not particularly interested in it. I do,
however, like fun, interesting tournament formats with cool twists. So
the "story" part of the storyline can be anything at all, as long is
it is used to justify something entertaining.
I have liked *all* of the single sitting storyline tournaments; yeah,
Nergal was kind of broken, but it was just a single event, so we just
went with it. I wasn't wild about the events that took multiple
sessions (that Anarch draft one was kind of a drag; we didn't play the
League one), but all the goofy special decks and whatever were fine.
Some sort of cool angle is always good--it doesn't need to be a
purchased special deck of cards specifically. The one where we all had
to build little decks to go in the middle of the table was fun,
although something a bit more concrete would probably be better (i.e.
"use cards X, Y, and Z...").
-Peter
YY
wrote:
#1 I liked the ones that didn't force players to play a certain sect,
or faction, etc. Not that I didn't like the concept. I just felt that
the restrictions limited the number of interested players. Anarchs and
Alastor was a bit tedious.
#2 I'm a HUGE fan of background stories. Having said that, I would
like the storylines to move outside of *just* the US and Europe.
Juggernaut1981 makes a very interesting proposition that I
particularly like: have the storylines affect more than just new cards
(which aren't going to happen now). How the original Five Rings Corp
handled the storyline was great - each year, there was a tourney that
will determine how to storyline moved and what happened to certain
characters.
The map idea is a good start. Let the outcome of each region's
storyline event affect that region directly. I always feel that
reporting the storyline is pointless, given how small an effect my one
single event generates. Possibly let each region submit an aftermath
that pertains only to that region (or if multiple regions wish to co-
ordinate, why not). These aftermaths can be vetted (or not, since it's
not that important) and then posted on a central location for reading.
To summarise: empower the locals.
#3 Simple special rules are good. Less remembering, more fun.
#4 I think if we can empower each local player base to determine
localised aftermath effects, that can be a reward upon itself.
Cheers.
- YY
librarian
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
>
> This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
> comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
> thought that might be useful include:
>
>
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
>
>
I haven't read the rest of the responses, but dang, I'm tired of demons and
Baali. Baali = Booring to me.
Just saying.
Torrance Circle, now that's what I'm talking about.
(Specifically how the She-Wolf of the SS was embraced (that's Ilse
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shewolf.jpg (My Name is Ilse, I turned
my lovers into Lampshades))))
chris
librarian
>
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
I'd like to see a storyline that was just rules, with no pre-determined
"plot". Something along the lines of: Your Crypt has to be at least 75% of
one clan/sect, and you must have more of only one crypt card than any other
crypt card (making it your "key minion"). Very simple rules, that can be
explained to people in a second, and they don't have to go to some website
to download a bunch of cards and/or rules.
Then you, Eric, tabulate the results, and create the story based on the
results.
>
>
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
>
I wonder if Lasombra or others have looked into the real costs of printing
up a batch of single cards? There are a lot of small print run operations
out there now, maybe it's actually not so hard?
chris
librarian
I'm a fan.
Chris
librarian
>
> We have been playtesting the San Francisco Storyline here in Berkeley
> for the past few weeks; rules are here:
>
> http://bayvtesevents.blogspot.com/
>
> This format could easily be for anywhere, (Singapore, Johannesburg,
> etc) where Cam, Sabbat, and Indie/Laibon/Anarch are jostling for
> control. Major rules changes: gain the edge with a successful vote or
> bleed, and you cannot gain pool unless you have the edge.
I've been only scanning the Bay Area list, but I was wondering - wouldn't
it be cool also if you got the edge for burning a vamp in combat?
chris
Robert Goudie
I've used ArtsCow.com to print a deck of Poker playing cards with
V:TES cardbacks. The website gives you the ability to control both
the printing of the front and backs of each card individually. So
essentially, you can get a 52-card deck for just about $0.10 (if you
time it correctly with a coupon). With enough planning and a SASE
arrangement, players could get storyline-only promo kits with real
cards (that are also almost perfectly sized!).
-Robert
Juggernaut1981
>
> - Show quoted text -
Robert, you beat me to it. Lots of BoardGameGeek guys use Artscow for
prototyping. Seems cheap and not too hard to use and fairly light on
the budget (if you time it to happen at discount/sales periods).
Abdul alHazred
>
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
I´ll chime into the chorus of more "mainstream" storylines, sect vs
sect, anarchs vs elders, city takeovers, pure sabbat sl . Why havent
anything been done with werewolves? Like a recreation of the chicago
chronicle? You could transfer that to any other city, there is a bunch
of allies already. Have a storyline card that represents werewolves
that does damage to minions. In the World of Darkness it shouldn´t
need some new übersuperthingie to get a storyline going
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
See #2 to some extent. list of ideas continues.
Having a list of vampires that NEED to be in the crypt to a certain
percentage if you want to make a storyline centered around certain
vampires. In this case versatile vampires should be picked where
deckbuilders can go different ways and still produce competative
decks.
Getting to start with one minion from your crypt ready with blood from
your pool to fill it up (or perhaps from the blood bank, but that
would even more favor big caps).
Both the idea with a centralized deck and the red list concept has
been thrown around in here, why not a centralized deck with trophies
and cards for making minions red list?
Having cards in play from the start is also kinda fun. Especially if
its something that impacts Think of a table with a shiny talbots
chainsaw in the middle? Not saying it´s the best card to throw out
there, but most people who read this will as soon as talbots i s read
have their minds go into deckconstruction-mode.
All/undirected/directed actions have +1/-1 stealth/bleed
>
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
I would say that the allure to play something we all like/love and
having a new set of balanced quirks to the standard rules make a
wonderful incentive to play. It´s like a new flavour to your favourite
brand of soda, you´ll try it at least once per flavour.
>
> I look forward to seeing your responses.
>
> With regards,
> Eric Chiang
> VTES Storyline Coordinator
Congratulations to the promotion and good luck
cheers,
Tomas W
Brum
nice to have someone like you continuing Ben's awesome work.
On Oct 21, 4:30 am, "echiang...@yahoo.com" <echiang...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
>
> This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
> comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
> thought that might be useful include:
>
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
I loved the Cultist storyline. Nice story and super fun rules.
Also loved the Gehenna league.
On the other hand I didn't like the Anarch and Alastors. It was good
to give people the chance to get cards they might not have otherwise,
but the rules didn't excite me.
My least favorite story was the Imperator (both before and after). I
loved the system, but the story seemed very unrealistic to me. No more
Elders doing dumb things, please. Specially in big numbers.
> #2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
> see in future storylines?
I have to agree with lots of people on the Camarilla VS Sabbat issue.
I had an idea for a league that reflected the struggle and Jyhad in
actual Domains in a map, like Risk. Will send you my ideas by email,
if you like.
> #3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
> future storylines?
Stuff that giver support to mechanics in cards that both these sects
have and that are not very explored or popular due to the quality of
cards.
I.e. Alastors in Camarilla, Inquisitors in Sabbat.
> #4. With the changes going on at White Wolf / CCP, there will be many
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
Besides unique do-it-once Storylines, you could build a continuity
from Storyline to Storyline that reflects the results of the last one.
Per example if the rules say we get a specific set of cards in the
middle during the rounds, that we use in a specific way, you might
have something similar on the next Storyline, choosing the cards
accordingly with previous results.
> I look forward to seeing your responses.
>
> With regards,
> Eric Chiang
> VTES Storyline Coordinator
I look forward to playing the stuff you come up with,
Tiago
salem
my play group has occasionally done this sort of thing as a league, using
the regions on the map board from the boardgame "Risk". I would have liked
to have made it electronic, but I lacked the means.
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
Jyhad
wrote:
> Now that I've taken on the role of VTES Storyline Coordinator, I am
> particularly interested to hear from the players and the VTES
> community regarding their thoughts on storylines and what you'd like
> to see.
>
> This is a fairly open-ended thread, so feel free to post whatever
> comments, praise, or criticisms you have. But some general lines of
> thought that might be useful include:
>
> #1. What are your favorite past storylines and your least favorite
> ones? What did you like (or didn't you like) about them?
>
> see in future storylines?
>
> future storylines?
>
> new changes to VTES. In particular, storyline events will no longer
> have the allure of special promo-only cards. Do you think people will
> still need these incentives to play storylines? What sorts of changes
> do you think the storyline should undergo (or needs to undergo) as the
> VTES CCG enters its next crucial phase?
>
>
> With regards,
> Eric Chiang
> VTES Storyline Coordinator
Alright, let me start off by saying Congrats E.
For storylines I enjoyed. My favorite so far is still the Hazimel
Storyline as it indirectly encouraged Combat. But I also like
Bloodlines even though I didn't get to play in it. Although I didn't
like the Infernal overtones of it. In fact, like most everyone else
I'm rather sick of Infernalism. I'd like to see some True Faith come
out and clean up that mess. Anarch and Alastors was decent as well. I
also partially liked the idea of the one SToryline that was Cam only.
The thing I didn't like was that it didn't allow any other clans even
the chance to Go Cam. I was all geeked to play an Assamite Cam deck
and then I read only Cam clans.
As for story points and themes. As I mentioned above, I'd like to see
True Faith come in and clean up some of that infernal garbage we've
been suffering with. Aside from Baali, Kindred\Cainites tended to
loathe the concept of infernalism. Yet we've been given the impression
with the last few storylines that nothing gets accomplished unless you
are Infernal. What a lesson. The only way to win is to sell your
soul. But city based Storylines like Baltimore's Purge is a solid
lead as well. And like others have mentioned, the basic feuds have
been ignored. Sabbat Vs Camarilla Vs Independents Vs Anarchs. While
the first two should be the Primary, the others can easily be
involved. I would even enjoy Clan Centric Storylines, Assamites in
particular could have many a story given the source material of oWoD.
Even your Tremere could get some love. In fact you could even focus on
2 clans in a given story. Tremere Vs Tzimsce, Lasombra Vs Ventrue for
obvious examples.
With regards to rules. They need to be less complicated. What's wrong
with Clan X gets something, while Clan Y gets something else. Or Sect
X gets something while another Sect gains something else. Simple is
better.
Promo's were an incentive to some degree. So the lack of them might
diminish some interest. However for me, as long as it's a good story
and I can play Assamites, I'll play.
Amenophobis
> On 21 oct, 09:35, Amenophobis <preache...@gmx.at> wrote:
>
> > Speaking of cards - there is no reason LSJ and his team couldn't
> > design and playtest official cards for the storyline events to be
> > printed out from online sources.
>
> You can remove the "official" word from your sentence. There can be
> storyline cards that can be printed for the event, but they will never
> be official in the sense of "for legal play".
Why not? I heard other fanbased cardgames do it as well.
Most players use sleeves anyways, so it would be no problem to put a
colour-print copy in front of the real card.
Heather Kreiter creates wonderful (really!) deckbackers. As she is
quite fond of VTES, the VEKN could approach her for an artwork or two
for "official proxy legal to use cards". She could then perhaps sell
more of her deckbackers to have some kind of profit form the deal.
Again - her deckbackers are awesome! :)
I really don't see there a problem.
Same goes for the underprinted cards that are in high demand (Parity
Shift, Enkil Cog, Touch of Clarity, to name a few).
Juggernaut1981
I think it's all about maintaining control of the power-curve. I have
no problems with limiting BYO Storyline and VEKN Storyline cards to
Storyline Only.
Amenophobis
I guess you misunderstood. Did you think all the previous promos have
been made by other people than LSJ?
I propose that LSJ keeps designing and playtesting nifty cards. Those
few can then be used for storylines (where appropriate). As there
would be no power creep (you know, LSJ...) there seems to be no
problem using the "cards" in official sanctioned play (if there will
be one, that is).
Also, Robert threw out a very good idea of making *real* cards via an
online-company. That might also be in interesting line to approach.
Kushiel
> I guess you misunderstood. Did you think all the previous promos have
> been made by other people than LSJ?
Well, at least while Ben was the storyline coordinator, the promos
weren't designed by LSJ, actually. He vetted them, but didn't design
them.
John Eno
Juggernaut1981
>
> - Show quoted text -
Okay, what I'm saying is that:
#1 Storyline Cards are cool, but most of the really nice ones probably
won't work in normal tournament play so they shouldn't be designed or
even generally considered for tournament play.
#2 BYO Storyline Cards (Like those for Sao Paolo, Bay Area of San
Francisco, etc) are just that... BYO and not for the people in
general.
#3 If LSJ is willing to check over the cards and posts "Unofficial,
non-CCP Printed Card X is legal for tournament Play" then I'm happy.
But I don't think he will because he is still employed by CCP and
maybe they'd have an issue with that.
#4 Robert was suggesting that if we want to print nice looking
storyline cards, places like Artscow would be a good way for us to
investigate printing options. Eric Chiang can upload a file to those
places and playgroups interested in running the Storyline would then
be able to order a set.
James Coupe
>#2. What sorts of themes (story points, backdrop) would you like to
>see in future storylines?
>
>
>#3. What sorts of mechanics (special rules) would you like to see in
>future storylines?
My thoughts are mostly on these two questions.
1) No more infernalism. Please, please... it would be really nice to
get through reading the rules for a Storyline, its variant cards and its
promos without seeing another thing about the Baali and infernals.
2) Fewer things like alternate decks - which I imagine won't happen so
much since we can't get them printed. Try to keep the changes
relatively focused and relatively open. A player needing to know what's
in a 30 card Cultist-style deck or a completely unknown Imperator deck?
Not so much fun. The unknown and random nature of the Imperator deck
has potential to hose a deck with no reasonable way of preparing for
that.
3) Things like the Eye of Hazimel have real scope to work. Things that
are visible and relatively easy to use. Things that can be prominent in
a game, without being random or hidden. Every table starts with three
known, fixed special cards in play that players can do something with?
Potentially good. A card passes from player to player, like Millicent?
Similarly potentially good. Every player's first influenced minion gets
Hypothetical Storyline Card put on them? Also workable.
4) For most storylines, you should be able to play most/all of the
standard deck styles - stealth-bleed, vote, stealth-vote, bruise-bleed,
rush, wall etc. - and have a reasonable chance at it. Try to avoid
meddling with that unnecessarily. When you do want to meddle, though,
don't do it half-heartedly. The Imperator restrictions were bothersome
without much pay-off in terms of interest, whereas the Bloodlines clan
restrictions were similarly bothersome but gave a (potentially!)
interesting end result.
5) Try to avoid weighting the outcome. The Nergal storyline gave the
Nergal deck a massive chance of winning outright (being represented in
every single final table).
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.