Not dying is valuable, but not nearly so good as stopping your prey from gaining 30+ pool
The Lasombra
regional qualifier (to the best of my recollection). In my first
game, my prey was playing Little Mountain Cemetery, and I was unable
to get ahead of his pool gain, in spite of frequently bleeding for 4-6
per turn. In the second game, my prey gained 3-4 pool on every action
of the Unnamed, so was at 30 pool for a long, long time. I did
eventually get him down below 10, but time was called. In the third
round, I was finally about to oust a prey, but my grand prey was Palla
Grande/Foundation Exhibit/Consanguineous Boon with ~20+ pool when I
got around to him and the game timed out. I did get the Heart of
Cheating into play in every game, and it always made a significant
difference. I didn't play an Archon Investigation or Daring the Dawn
the entire day.
Items clearly missing after in game experiences:
1) Bowl of Convergence
2) Sport Bike
Abbot is strong, but it is not enough as you frequently need to stop
those vampires of your prey who are empty from successfully hunting,
especially when you want to save the Hide the Hearts to protect your
pool.
Deck Name : The Salubri Antitribu Heart
Author : The Lasombra
Description :
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 8 average: 6.25
------------------------------------------------------------
3x Dela Eden 8 AUS FOR VAL cel dom !Salubri:3
3x Uriel 8 AUS FOR VAL ani obe bishop !Salubri:4
2x Aredhel 5 FOR VAL aus !Salubri:4
2x Langa 5 VAL for !Salubri:4
1x Nkechi 4 aus for val !Salubri:4
1x Rashiel 3 for val !Salubri:4
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [2]
2x Abbot
Action Modifier [10]
2x Daring the Dawn
8x Freak Drive
Action Modifier/Combat [7]
7x Burning Touch
Combat [29]
6x Death Seeker
2x Eye of Unforgiving Heaven
12x Loving Agony
9x Target Vitals
Equipment [5]
1x Camera Phone
1x Heart of Nizchetus
3x Light Intensifying Goggles
Master [21]
1x Alamut
2x Archon Investigation
1x Blooding by the Code
2x Code of Samiel
1x Coven, The
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
4x Path of Retribution, The
6x Villein
Reaction [15]
10x Hide the Heart
2x My Enemy's Enemy
3x On the Qui Vive
Retainer [1]
1x Tasha Morgan
The Lasombra
>Master [21]
> 1x Alamut
This was a placeholder in the ARDB program for Lilith's Blessing that
I forgot to replace prior to posting.
The actual deck as played is below.
Master [21]
2x Archon Investigation
1x Blooding by the Code
2x Code of Samiel
1x Coven, The
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
1x Lilith's Blessing
_angst_
And in this case it seems that you clearly underestimate how much
ousting power you need. Bleeding for 6 in a round isn't much at all.
You will have to be able to do alot more damage to your prey. You have
lots of multiacting which could help you do more damage to your prey
but almost no actions... Seems like you're not using your potential.
I see lots of combat cards but nothing very effective and no rushes so
you have no way of preventing the vampires your prey control from
bloating.
And you choose rather mediocre reduce bleed cards instead of bounce so
you have no way to exploit a bleeding pred and bounce more damage to
your prey.
Regards
Alex
The Lasombra
>And in this case it seems that you clearly underestimate how much
>ousting power you need. Bleeding for 6 in a round isn't much at all.
I was never bled for 6 in a turn in that tournament at all. My bleeds
consistent bleeds for 3 were the greatest consistent offense in the
games I played.
>You will have to be able to do alot more damage to your prey.
Not in my experience. A few (like 5) Sense Death's would have ensured
the oust of both of the prey's that bloated extremely well.
>You have lots of multiacting which could help you do more damage to your prey
>but almost no actions... Seems like you're not using your potential.
Bleed is the action. Most of them went unblocked and un-bounced.
>I see lots of combat cards but nothing very effective and no rushes so
>you have no way of preventing the vampires your prey control from
>bloating.
I disagree about the effectiveness, and Langa does rush every turn he
is in play. I have no way to block those vampires from taking 1
stealth actions, as mentioned before the deck was presented. If 5
Sense Death's aren't added, the Bowl & Sport Bike have the potential
to make the difference.
>And you choose rather mediocre reduce bleed cards instead of bounce so
>you have no way to exploit a bleeding pred and bounce more damage to
>your prey.
Rather mediocre? Have you ever shut down an Imbued deck completely?
This deck does it without even tapping. The vast majority of the Hide
the Hearts are played for the 'stop that action' effect in every game.
Govern down's all of the sudden fail, bleeds to oust my grand prey
suddenly fails, that hunt of the empty Famous vampire fails, etc.,
etc., etc.
If you're using HtH for bleed reduction, you're playing it wrong.
_angst_
> On Sun, 27 June 2010 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT), _angst_ wrote:
> >And in this case it seems that you clearly underestimate how much
> >ousting power you need. Bleeding for 6 in a round isn't much at all.
>
> I was never bled for 6 in a turn in that tournament at all. My bleeds
> consistent bleeds for 3 were the greatest consistent offense in the
> games I played.
>
Then it seems to me that you faced rather mediocre decks.
> >You will have to be able to do alot more damage to your prey.
>
> Not in my experience. A few (like 5) Sense Death's would have ensured
> the oust of both of the prey's that bloated extremely well.
>
I can't argue with your experience even though I'm sure you're wrong
about this. It is however usually better to be able to do more damage
to your prey than less so perhaps considering more ousting power in
your decks would give you more VPs. Adding sense death is probably a
good start but playing 5/90 means you won't see them when you need
them.
> >You have lots of multiacting which could help you do more damage to your prey
> >but almost no actions... Seems like you're not using your potential.
>
> Bleed is the action. Most of them went unblocked and un-bounced.
>
Bleed is subject to NRA and you play 8 freak drives and 12 loving
agony so it still seems you're not using your full potential.
> >I see lots of combat cards but nothing very effective and no rushes so
> >you have no way of preventing the vampires your prey control from
> >bloating.
>
> I disagree about the effectiveness, and Langa does rush every turn he
> is in play. I have no way to block those vampires from taking 1
> stealth actions, as mentioned before the deck was presented. If 5
> Sense Death's aren't added, the Bowl & Sport Bike have the potential
> to make the difference.
>
Perhaps I don't get the cards you're playing but it seems to me you
can do 3 damage tops in a combat. That's not very effective combat...
> >And you choose rather mediocre reduce bleed cards instead of bounce so
> >you have no way to exploit a bleeding pred and bounce more damage to
> >your prey.
>
> Rather mediocre? Have you ever shut down an Imbued deck completely?
> This deck does it without even tapping. The vast majority of the Hide
> the Hearts are played for the 'stop that action' effect in every game.
>
> Govern down's all of the sudden fail, bleeds to oust my grand prey
> suddenly fails, that hunt of the empty Famous vampire fails, etc.,
> etc., etc.
>
> If you're using HtH for bleed reduction, you're playing it wrong.
I don't play HtH since I consider it mediocre defense. Hell, I don't
play !sal in tournaments since I consider them mediocre. And yes I
have shut down Imbued decks but most of my predators are able to pay 1
blood more when bleeding me for 6. But if I can bounce those bleeds
for 6 and they land on my prey I will turn my defense into offense and
I get more VPs.
Regards
Alex
The Lasombra
>Perhaps I don't get the cards you're playing but it seems to me you
>can do 3 damage tops in a combat. That's not very effective combat...
Three damage that keeps you from receiving damage AND untaps you? I
cannot imagine a much more efficient combat package.
Bounce might have been nice, but all of the decks I was up against
were deathly afraid of Archon Investigation. I don't think that I
witnessed more than 1 or 2 bleeds of more than 3 in three days of
tournaments.
I did witness quite a few vote decks, but none were my immediate
predators or immediate preys, except on the US Championship day,
during which I played Lasombra vote myself.
The Lasombra
>Hell, I don't play !sal in tournaments since I consider them mediocre.
It isn't the deck/clan that's mediocre, it can only be the player.
:P
I've been in the finals of multiple tournaments with Salubri Antitribu
and won with them as well. There are definitely better builds than
this one.
Glad you enjoyed the deck enough to consider commenting on it.
Carpe noctem.
The Lasombra
Your best source of V:TES information.
_angst_
> On Sun, 27 June 2010 14:09:50 -0700 (PDT), _angst_ wrote:
> >Perhaps I don't get the cards you're playing but it seems to me you
> >can do 3 damage tops in a combat. That's not very effective combat...
>
> Three damage that keeps you from receiving damage AND untaps you? I
> cannot imagine a much more efficient combat package.
>
I think you misunderstood what I mean by efficient. I meant that you
will have to be able to torporize a bloating vampire at will and 3
damage just won't do that. Even though 3 damage plus untap ofcourse is
good.
> Bounce might have been nice, but all of the decks I was up against
> were deathly afraid of Archon Investigation. I don't think that I
> witnessed more than 1 or 2 bleeds of more than 3 in three days of
> tournaments.
>
Then I must say you play in a very strange meta :o
> I did witness quite a few vote decks, but none were my immediate
> predators or immediate preys, except on the US Championship day,
> during which I played Lasombra vote myself.
Talking about voting a few DTs would help against bloatvotes.
Regards
Alex
_angst_
> On Sun, 27 June 2010 14:09:50 -0700 (PDT), _angst_ wrote:
> >Hell, I don't play !sal in tournaments since I consider them mediocre.
>
> It isn't the deck/clan that's mediocre, it can only be the player.
> :P
>
I'm decently sure there is such a thing as bad decks/clans/cards in
VtES :)
> I've been in the finals of multiple tournaments with Salubri Antitribu
> and won with them as well. There are definitely better builds than
> this one.
>
I know that but considering your postage on the NG made me think you
wanted some feedback.
> Glad you enjoyed the deck enough to consider commenting on it.
>
In all honesty I was watching this J-C van Damme movie on the telly
and...
Regards
Alex
The Lasombra
>I know that but considering your postage on the NG made me think you
>wanted some feedback.
Feedback?
No.
I want the people that want Origins to do well to post while the event
is going on, to drag people in.
Hiding 5 days of tournaments in 1 TWD post is a waste of time and
effort.
I've given up chastising them directly, so I simply post about
anything that amused me after the event.
Juggernaut1981
Um what part of "my prey takes a bloat action, gets the action
blocked, then loses 3 blood and i'm untapped ready for the next
action... which I can rinse & repeat them on" gives you the idea that
this won't destroy a prey's bloat engine.
Sure it needed a decent handful of permacept, a Sports Bike or the
Bowl of Cheese would have been seriously enough. Langa is a little
powerhouse. Built in Rush, [VAL]... Give that man a baseball bat and
it might as well be a light sabre...
I think HtH has been the BEST card for !Salubri in a long time. It
allows you to make your prey's job of killing your GPrey that much
harder... first you make them burn a blood to keep going and then wait
to see if people block. You want that GtU down? First pay an extra
for it, then get around my intercept and if I catch you I'll make it
hurt.
Sure it could probably do with either a stronger block engine or more
oust power. The only oust power I'd probably consider dropping in is
Raziel's Song (for the +1 bleed) or Camera Phones.
Matthew T. Morgan
> The deck below was never ousted on Saturday during the Origins
> regional qualifier (to the best of my recollection). In my first
> game, my prey was playing Little Mountain Cemetery, and I was unable
> to get ahead of his pool gain, in spite of frequently bleeding for 4-6
> per turn. In the second game, my prey gained 3-4 pool on every action
> of the Unnamed, so was at 30 pool for a long, long time. I did
> eventually get him down below 10, but time was called. In the third
> round, I was finally about to oust a prey, but my grand prey was Palla
> Grande/Foundation Exhibit/Consanguineous Boon with ~20+ pool when I
> got around to him and the game timed out. I did get the Heart of
This is a good topic for a lot of reasons. I have to say that preying on
this deck was no picnic, despite what Alex might think. Of course I was
playing a deck with very little stealth and what combat I had was
necessary to keep my predator at bay.
The clock is enemy #1 in vtes. It is a trivial matter to build a deck
that won't die in two hours, but so what? You won't make the final
without game wins. Timing out isn't much better than getting ousted in 15
minutes. The principle difference is it takes a lot longer and you'll
consequently be more fatigued for the next round. Anyone who thinks 0.5
VPs is a good result is probably not frequently seen at finals tables.
I was playing Zombo Combo (Corpses/Shamblers) in the US championship and I
sat down at my 3rd round table with a game win and 4.5 VPs. A good game
and I'm in the final. But I was treated to three breed/boon decks in a
row. That's basically an impossible situation. I managed to oust my
first prey by attacking him as quickly as possible. It was only luck that
I managed to oust him before he drew a second boon. Had he done so, I
would have had no hope at all. My next prey had 35 pool at that point. I
think I had him down to 6 at one point, but only by charging at him
full-throttle. Doing so left me vulnerable in the last few minutes of the
game and I was ousted. No regrets, though, because had I played more
defensively, I would have had no hope at all of ousting my second prey
before the two hour time limit.
I think it's very important to consider the time limit when constructing
and choosing decks. Sometimes a bit of intercept is what's needed to stop
your prey from getting away with murder at 1 stealth. Delaying Tactics
helps too, especially against all these breed/boon decks!
I really like your !Salubri decks by the way, Jeff. They've always been
such a joke of a clan, but your decks are interesting and challenging to
play against.
brandonsantacruz
and/or Forced Vigilance instead of On the Qui Vive and make 2 freak
drives into Sport Bike and the Bowl, as you mentioned.
Brandon
Darby Keeney
> I think it's very important to consider the time limit when constructing
> and choosing decks. Sometimes a bit of intercept is what's needed to stop
> your prey from getting away with murder at 1 stealth.
As far as I can remember, Matt, you were one of only 2 people who
successfully blocked ANY on my actions at stealth, across all the
tournaments we played.
It was a very strange week. I kept metagaming for the introduction of
intercept, yet it never appeared.
Kevin M.
> I want the people that want Origins to do well to post while the
> event is going on, to drag people in. Hiding 5 days of tournaments
> in 1 TWD post is a waste of time and effort.
Certainly, if I was doing nothing but putting my Origins report into
one newsgroup post and NOTHING ELSE to promote the most consistently
successful, high-level, relaxed, enjoyable, and longest-running annual
VTES event in North America (world?) then you'd be onto something.
But given that that I (and others) promote the convention and the
VTES events on many, many levels and to many, many players, and given
that Origins' VTES growth has at least an 11-year upward trend, your
assertion of wasted time and effort doesn't seem to fit, unless I'm
misunderstanding what you're trying to get at regarding the time and
effort waste.
As a person who wants Origins to do well, I don't see how posting
something here on this newsgroup or on FaceTwittBlogBook during the
event would accomplish the goal of getting more players to come
to Origins (assuming that is what's meant by "dragging people in")
either during the current convention or for the Origins the next year.
I certainly could be wrong, though, so if you'd like to help me
understand, perhaps I could take advantage of the for-the-first-time-
ever-at-Origins free Wi-Fi next year and post every day, or even
multiple times per day, if that's what it'd take.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Please bid on my auctions! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
Matthew T. Morgan
> As far as I can remember, Matt, you were one of only 2 people who
> successfully blocked ANY on my actions at stealth, across all the
> tournaments we played.
>
> It was a very strange week. I kept metagaming for the introduction of
> intercept, yet it never appeared.
Yeah, that's not what you come to expect from Origins. A couple years
back I was playing that stupid Hermanas vote deck and I timed out on two
tables without ever really having done anything because everything I tried
was blocked, but nobody actually had enough bleed power to oust a deck
that basically only spends about 12 pool. You'd think a deck of bloodless
2 caps would die pretty fast on a table of intercept, but not when
everybody lacks any kind of payload.
Peter D Bakija
"Matthew T. Morgan" <far...@io.com> wrote:
> Yeah, that's not what you come to expect from Origins. A couple years
> back I was playing that stupid Hermanas vote deck and I timed out on two
> tables without ever really having done anything because everything I tried
> was blocked, but nobody actually had enough bleed power to oust a deck
> that basically only spends about 12 pool.
Oh, poor Spring Break: Miami! I won a few games with it, but finally
took it apart to build a nightmarish bleedzooka deck that actually has
done reasonably well in the long run. Much less stylish (well, except
for the Slaughtering the Herd "look at my prey's hand" tech...), but
more effective. Who would think such a thing about a deck that bleeds
for 7 at +5 stealth.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff
Blooded Sand
> In article <alpine.BSF.2.00.1006291040080.12...@eris.io.com>,
> "Matthew T. Morgan" <farq...@io.com> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, that's not what you come to expect from Origins. A couple years
> > back I was playing that stupid Hermanas vote deck and I timed out on two
> > tables without ever really having done anything because everything I tried
> > was blocked, but nobody actually had enough bleed power to oust a deck
> > that basically only spends about 12 pool.
>
> Oh, poor Spring Break: Miami! I won a few games with it, but finally
> took it apart to build a nightmarish bleedzooka deck that actually has
> done reasonably well in the long run. Much less stylish (well, except
> for the Slaughtering the Herd "look at my prey's hand" tech...), but
> more effective. Who would think such a thing about a deck that bleeds
> for 7 at +5 stealth.
>
> Peter D Bakija
>
> "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
> -Gaff
DECKLIIIIST! please?
oh yeah, its Peter...
;)
The Lasombra
> > Oh, poor Spring Break: Miami! I won a few games with it, but finally
> DECKLIIIIST! please?
http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/pdb6.htm#springbreak
also
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/rgtcjdeckarchive/message/4004
and
Sexo en la Ciudad!
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/rgtcjdeckarchive/message/5645
Peter D Bakija
<fc625bf7-3126-4328...@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> DECKLIIIIST! please?
If I got one. This was a deck I was playing years ago. It might even be
on the Lasombra's site.
> oh yeah, its Peter...
>
> ;)
I have no idea what that even means...
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
Kushiel
> I have no idea what that even means...
Neither do I. But I do know that Google Groups has a search function.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/22k4l7k
John Eno
Salem
> In article<alpine.BSF.2.00.1...@eris.io.com>,
> "Matthew T. Morgan"<far...@io.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, that's not what you come to expect from Origins. A couple years
>> back I was playing that stupid Hermanas vote deck and I timed out on two
>> tables without ever really having done anything because everything I tried
>> was blocked, but nobody actually had enough bleed power to oust a deck
>> that basically only spends about 12 pool.
>
> Oh, poor Spring Break: Miami! I won a few games with it, but finally
> took it apart to build a nightmarish bleedzooka deck that actually has
> done reasonably well in the long run. Much less stylish (well, except
> for the Slaughtering the Herd "look at my prey's hand" tech...),
I assume you mean _Cull_ the Herd....which I agree is awesome
hand-looking tech, that occasionally has a bonus!
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
Peter D Bakija
wrote:
> I assume you mean _Cull_ the Herd....which I agree is awesome
> hand-looking tech, that occasionally has a bonus!
Oh, yeah, clearly Cull the Herd. I've never in my life managed to get
any blood for playing it. But I have seen a handfull of Deflections and
AIs...
Kevin Walsh
> I don't play HtH since I consider it mediocre defense. Hell, I don't
> play !sal in tournaments since I consider them mediocre. And yes I
> have shut down Imbued decks but most of my predators are able to pay 1
> blood more when bleeding me for 6. But if I can bounce those bleeds
> for 6 and they land on my prey I will turn my defense into offense and
> I get more VPs.
>
Hide the Heart is incredibly strong table control. The amount of
actions you can shut down by having a 2 cap play a free reaction card
is amazing.
Kevin Walsh
Kevin Walsh
> Master [21]
> 2x Archon Investigation
> 1x Blooding by the Code
> 2x Code of Samiel
> 1x Coven, The
> 2x Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1x Fame
> 1x Giant's Blood
> 1x Lilith's Blessing
> 4x Path of Retribution, The
> 6x Villein
>
your Vampires are Laibon so you should have no trouble playing it.
Kevin Walsh
The Lasombra
>> Master [21]
>> 2x Archon Investigation
>> 1x Blooding by the Code
>> 2x Code of Samiel
>> 1x Coven, The
>> 2x Dreams of the Sphinx
>> 1x Fame
>> 1x Giant's Blood
>> 1x Lilith's Blessing
>> 4x Path of Retribution, The
>> 6x Villein
>Have you considered putting Powerbase: Luanda into the deck? Half of
>your Vampires are Laibon so you should have no trouble playing it.
I hadn't thought of it prior to your recommendation. It will
definitely go in to replace an Archon Investigation if I play the deck
locally.
Thanks!