Deck Shuffling Technology?
Peter D Bakija
Operations in it. Not to do anything tricky, but 'cause it seems like
a solid inclusion in a deck that can use it. But if I'm using WMO to
move cards to the bottom of my deck, really, I want to be able to
shuffle it to churn the good cards back into circulation, as opposed
to just waiting to draw down to the bottom (as this isn't some sort of
twister wackiness). So I'm looking into good, low effort deck
shuffling tech.
There are a lot of transient effects that shuffle your deck for you
(i.e. an action that lets you shuffle your deck once--Scrounging is
the easiest to use), but to make that pay off with WMO, you need to
use them a lot. So I'm looking at cards that let you shuffle your deck
on a regular basis. And the two most reliable are:
-Vast Wealth: Pros: Gets equipment from the deck. Which the deck has a
bit of, but nothing real vital. Cons: Takes an vampire action every
time you use it. Is only at +1 stealth. Takes the place of a actually
useful Master.
-Repo Man: Pros: Cheap at 1 blood. Can theoretically block something
in a pinch or take weird actions if need be. Can take the shuffle
action every turn at +2 stealth. Cons: Someone might steal him. I
don't use vehicles in the deck, which isn't really a con, so much.
Are there other good, permanent options I'm missing? Which one seems
most useful?
I considered Aranthebes as it is a really good card anyway, and I can
take an action to shuffle him back into the deck, but that seems
really convoluted. And kind of dumb.
-Peter
wedge
options.
Dan Murdock repeatable action
Thomas Sneed
Leaf 'Potter116' Pankowski (not action based)
Cristos Mangito
Antonio d`Erlette (not action based)
I built a deck (anarch) that used Lord Ephraim Wainwright w/ Brujah !
Camarilla: When Ephraim plays an action card, you may search your
library for another copy of that card and move it to your ash heap. If
the action succeeds, move the card to your hand.
Not seeing the deck I like Leaf or Antonio best since your deck
shuffling can not be blocked. Antotino gives you access to bounce.
The only other option I can think of is Trophey; Retainers.
I don't know if any of this helps or could be better then the options
you have already presented.
Just a little peak outside of the box (proven effective)
Matt
brandonsantacruz
I think that Vast Wealth is your simplest bet. It's a permanent that
goes on a minion to let you take an action to get equipment. It's not
unique and hard to get rid of. For some fun, you could do a deck
where !brujah(and some friends) with CEL use Saturday Night Specials
with some Dragon's Breath Rounds and Target Vitals. Cheaper than .44s,
still pretty effective with TV and DBR (plus additional strikes and
some Psyche!, of course), and you can use your Vast Wealth a little
more freely knowing that you won't accidentally blow 2 pool. !Brujah
like guns anyway, so there's some synergy there.
Brandon
brandonsantacruz
you are sporting all kinds of combat pwnage in that deck archetype.
henrik
If you can squeeze in like 4-5 real Brujah in the crypt, Al's Army
Apparatus is a nice one.
Al's Army Apparatus
Type: Master
Requires: Brujah
Master: unique location.
During your minion phase, you may tap this card to search your library
for a weapon and move it to your hand (shuffle and discard afterward).
Kevin M.
> -Repo Man: Pros: Cheap at 1 blood. Can theoretically block
> something in a pinch or take weird actions if need be. Can take
> the shuffle action every turn at +2 stealth. Cons: Someone might
> steal him. I don't use vehicles in the deck, which isn't really a con,
> so much.
If you can afford to add 2-3x Sport Bike, I think Repo Man could
really make your deck shine. A few guys with +1 intercept could
save you in a pinch. Maybe even an Ambulance for the continue
on the rushes?
I suppose you could do the same thing with Vast Wealth, but it's
a Master, it's only 1 stealth, and it wastes a vampire action to do it.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
Peter D Bakija
> If you can squeeze in like 4-5 real Brujah in the crypt, Al's Army
> Apparatus is a nice one.
Oh, yeah, AAA's (the first name in the phone book!) is the best
option, and in any, like, Cel/Pot deck I ever make, I generally
include both AAA and WMO for just such an occasion, but in this case,
I'm stuck with a pure !Brujah deck (it is a deck that revolves around
Unexpected Coalition and Con Boon for pool gain), so I had to find
something other than Al's :-)
I probably should have mentioned that in the initial post.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> If you can afford to add 2-3x Sport Bike, I think Repo Man could
> really make your deck shine. A few guys with +1 intercept could
> save you in a pinch. Maybe even an Ambulance for the continue
> on the rushes?
Yeah, I was considering that, actually--currently, the deck is !Brujah
using Unexpected Coalition and Con Boon to gain pool and has WWS/CEL
combat tech with a few Bats/Swords (Crusader Sword) for some permanent
combat. Putting in Repo Man and maybe a couple Sports Bikes or
Ambulances is probably the way to go.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> I don't know what you are doing in the deck, but there are crypt based
> options.
> Dan Murdock repeatable action
> Thomas Sneed
> Leaf 'Potter116' Pankowski (not action based)
> Cristos Mangito
> Antonio d`Erlette (not action based)
Ooh! Those are clever, but for this deck, I need to keep the crypt
all !Brujah (Con Boon and Unexpected Coalition tech--the G2 crypt is
the good one for this particular deck). Looking at these guys, Zahir
would fit in (CEL and can go through the deck and find a Contract),
but still, wanna stay all !Brujah.
-Peter
wedge
A small trophy package may work well depending on you crypt and
masters in addition to repo man and vast wealth.
I am assuming that it will a dogs of war deck of course.
2 trumped up charges
1 retainers +(winthrop & jackie therman)
1 domain
1 wealth
1 no questions
Matt
Peter D Bakija
> A small trophy package may work well depending on you crypt and
> masters in addition to repo man and vast wealth.
> I am assuming that it will a dogs of war deck of course.
Oh, yeah, Dogs of War is certainly in there. That is an interesting
idea. But how do you burn the Red Listers to get the trophies?
Amaranth?
-Peter
wedge
Diablerie
-dogs of war protects if needed
Matt
wedge
If Carlton is on the table he is the redlisted minion
Peter D Bakija
Oh, yeah, duh. That isn't bad!
-Peter
Blooded Sand
Well if you have titled !bru, creation Rites aint bad, it fits into
your cons boon theme, and it gives you weenies.
While also allowing a shuffle. Not the perma tech you were looking
for, but still useful i think. Other options are Path of death and the
soul, any small cap diablerizing, summoning (you have pre and you can
get funky allies like carlton et al). Ashur tablets fit into the
recursion them, AND give you pool (TAKE THAT! Stupid ascendance... ;)
Reinforcements also allow recursion, fit into the vote theme, and give
you a shuffle.
The scrounging could work.
Both trophy retainer as previously mentioned and also trophy progeny.
If you are playing Salinger, Codex of the damned is also worth a try.
XZealot
> On Dec 12, 5:26 pm, wedge <matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Diablerie
> > -dogs of war protects if needed
Diablerie allows you to search your deck for a skill card then
shuffle, so if that is what you are saying then that is your solution.
librarian
>
>
> -Repo Man: Pros: Cheap at 1 blood. Can theoretically block something
> in a pinch or take weird actions if need be. Can take the shuffle
> action every turn at +2 stealth. Cons: Someone might steal him. I
> don't use vehicles in the deck, which isn't really a con, so much.
>
Repo Man of course also brings up the soundtrack to the
movie of that name featuring Black Flag, Circle Jerks,
Suicidal Tendencies, and more. Worth playing him just for
that...
best -
chris
Jussi
Well, you could include Inconnu Tutelage, especially if you have
multiples in your crypt. Works only once or twice, but it gets you a
card in hand and shuffles your deck. Cost is a crypt card and four
transfers though - and depending on your deck you may not afford it.
- jussi
Peter D Bakija
> Repo Man of course also brings up the soundtrack to the
> movie of that name featuring Black Flag, Circle Jerks,
> Suicidal Tendencies, and more. Worth playing him just for
> that...
This is quite true. Really, the main reason to play that card, for my
money...
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> Well, you could include Inconnu Tutelage, especially if you have
> multiples in your crypt. Works only once or twice, but it gets you a
> card in hand and shuffles your deck. Cost is a crypt card and four
> transfers though - and depending on your deck you may not afford it.
Ooh! That is a good one!
-Peter
Blooded Sand
Well, the untapped helicopters are kinda kewl.....
wedge
No my solution is trophy retainers. You need not have a retainer in
your library to search for one.
The other three trophies are what I thought would be most benificial
in addition to it.
Salem
Interesting timing on this discussion. I have a Assamite beretta deck
(star being Zahir), but i threw in 3 !bru and a waste management just to
recycle in end game.
i don't really _need_ those cards until end game though, so i am happy
to not need to shuffle.
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
Salem
> So I'm playing a !Brujah deck currently that has Waste Management
> Operations in it. Not to do anything tricky, but 'cause it seems like
> a solid inclusion in a deck that can use it. But if I'm using WMO to
> move cards to the bottom of my deck, really, I want to be able to
> shuffle it to churn the good cards back into circulation, as opposed
> to just waiting to draw down to the bottom (as this isn't some sort of
> twister wackiness). So I'm looking into good, low effort deck
> shuffling tech.
> -Repo Man: Pros: Cheap at 1 blood. Can theoretically block something
> in a pinch or take weird actions if need be. Can take the shuffle
> action every turn at +2 stealth. Cons: Someone might steal him. I
> don't use vehicles in the deck, which isn't really a con, so much.
Repo man also untaps you at the end of the turn when you recruit him
(although I almost always forget). Totally worth it. Throw in 2 or 3,
and if someone steals him, contest. Sounds like you have the bloat to
win a contestion.
Salem
Do you have Crusades in the deck? If so, could throw in a few
Reinforcements. They're one-shot only, but not only to they shuffle the
deck, but they also put even more cards back in...
librarian
like this:
http://www.amazon.com/EXCALIBUR%C2%AE-PRO-SHUFFLE-CARD-SHUFFLER/dp/B000BY94Z2
best -
chris
Peter D Bakija
> Do you have Crusades in the deck? If so, could throw in a few
> Reinforcements. They're one-shot only, but not only to they shuffle the
> deck, but they also put even more cards back in...
Yeah, considered that, but with only a one time shuffle, less handy.
I'm liking Repo Man more and more. I mean, he can commit crimes! Like
get sushi! And not pay!
-Peter
Kevin M.
> Repo man also untaps you at the end of the turn when you recruit
> him (although I almost always forget).
You can't forget. It's mandatory to untap.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
Please attend my qualifier! http://members.cox.net/vtesinlv/index.htm
Peter D Bakija
> You can't forget. It's mandatory to untap.
And yet if you *do* forget, you don't untap. And if you remember later
in the game, are you going to get to get a retroactive untap?
Unlikely...
-Peter
LSJ
Very likely.
Or some other remedy to equalize the situation (but untapping being by far the
most obvious remedy).
Peter D Bakija
> Very likely.
>
> Or some other remedy to equalize the situation (but untapping being by far the
> most obvious remedy).
Ok. On turn 3, I recruit a Repo Man. I forget to untap at the end of
the turn. No one else notices that I should untap at the end of the
turn. On turn 5, while reading Repo Man, I notice that I was supposed
to untap, which I didn't do before. What is the appropriate action to
take? Give my minion a retoractive untap at the end of turn 5? Do
nothing?
Sure, if on turn 3, I recruit a Repo Man, and forget to untap, and
before it is my next turn, someone notices that I didn't untap,
untapping is an easy and reasonable action to take to remedy the
situation. But if has become a new one of my turns, and I have already
untapped said minion, there is no way to fix the issue.
-Peter
LSJ
> On Dec 15, 6:12 am, LSJ<vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Very likely.
>>
>> Or some other remedy to equalize the situation (but untapping being by far the
>> most obvious remedy).
>
> Ok. On turn 3, I recruit a Repo Man. I forget to untap at the end of
> the turn. No one else notices that I should untap at the end of the
> turn. On turn 5, while reading Repo Man, I notice that I was supposed
> to untap, which I didn't do before. What is the appropriate action to
> take? Give my minion a retoractive untap at the end of turn 5? Do
> nothing?
Ah. Yeah, if you introduce a very long period between the illegal activity and
the noticing of it, it becomes harder, sure. Esp. if failing to untap is not
noticed until after a subsequent untapping (at which point the omitted untapping
becomes redundant).
But that's unlikely in itself. And self-correcting (upon reaching the untap
phase and finally untapping the card).
> Sure, if on turn 3, I recruit a Repo Man, and forget to untap, and
> before it is my next turn, someone notices that I didn't untap,
> untapping is an easy and reasonable action to take to remedy the
> situation. But if has become a new one of my turns, and I have already
> untapped said minion, there is no way to fix the issue.
Except that it is thus fixed.
Peter D Bakija
> Ah. Yeah, if you introduce a very long period between the illegal activity and
> the noticing of it, it becomes harder, sure. Esp. if failing to untap is not
> noticed until after a subsequent untapping (at which point the omitted untapping
> becomes redundant).
That's why I said "unlikely".
If someone forgets to untap from recruiting a Repo Man (or whatever),
and then notices before their next untap phase, there is an easy and
obvious fix. Untap that minion. Problem solved.
If someone forgets to untap from recruiting a Repo Man and then
notices after their next untap phase, there is no way to fix the error
that isn't potentially advantageous (i.e. "Ooh. I forgot to untap last
turn when it didn't matter. I'll take that untap now, when I suddenly
notice that I'm about to be ousted...")
> But that's unlikely in itself. And self-correcting (upon reaching the untap
> phase and finally untapping the card).
What is unlikely--that someone wouldn't notice that they are supposed
to untap when they play Repo Man? That strikes me as a highly likely
result of playing Repo Man. The card has a lot of words, and doesn't
see a lot of play. It is easy to either not realize that the card
provides that ability or just forget to do so. And if no one notices
till after your next untap phase, well, there is no fix to be had.
-Peter
LSJ
> On Dec 15, 10:12 am, LSJ<vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Ah. Yeah, if you introduce a very long period between the illegal activity and
>> the noticing of it, it becomes harder, sure. Esp. if failing to untap is not
>> noticed until after a subsequent untapping (at which point the omitted untapping
>> becomes redundant).
>
> That's why I said "unlikely".
Um. OK. I was addressing the common case (catching it before your next untap
Peter D Bakija
> Um. OK. I was addressing the common case (catching it before your next untap
Fair enough. See, I was addressing the (at least in my opinion) just
as likely case of not catching it till after your next untap. Just
mostly 'cause Kevin was like "you can't not untap, as it is
mandatory", and in the case of Repo Man, it seems perfectly likely
that someone will miss that until after it is too late to do anything
about it.
-Peter
Salem
Actually, here it's mostly the untap phase when i remember. and say 'crap'.
if it's, say, my predator's turn, and he looks at me and sees my
vampires are tapped out, and thus declares a bleed for 6, i feel rather
bad then to go looking through my hand for an untap, and then realise
the repo man should've untapped me, and then do it then. seems like
'dirty' play to me. because if i was a jerk and intentionally not
untapping to lure my predator into bleeding when he shouldn't (ie:
cheating), that's the kind of thing i'd expect. So i'd usually just
'correct' it by untapping my vampire *after* the current action was
concluded, or something. So i still get my untap, and my predator still
gets to make decisions on his actions based on what the play state looks
like, rather than being penalised for my mis-representation. even though
technically it's everyone's job to ensure mandatory effects occur, i'd
still put more of the burden for them on the methuselah who played the card.
LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
>> On 12/15/09 12:11 , Peter D Bakija wrote:
>>> On Dec 15, 10:12 am, LSJ<vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>>> Ah. Yeah, if you introduce a very long period between the illegal
>>>> activity and
>>>> the noticing of it, it becomes harder, sure. Esp. if failing to
>>>> untap is not
>>>> noticed until after a subsequent untapping (at which point the
>>>> omitted untapping
>>>> becomes redundant).
>>>
>>> That's why I said "unlikely".
>>
>> Um. OK. I was addressing the common case (catching it before your next
>> untap
>
> Actually, here it's mostly the untap phase when i remember. and say 'crap'.
Fine. So you untap him. Remedy applied.
> if it's, say, my predator's turn, and he looks at me and sees my
> vampires are tapped out, and thus declares a bleed for 6, i feel rather
> bad then to go looking through my hand for an untap, and then realise
> the repo man should've untapped me, and then do it then.
Of course you don't just "do it then".
You point out to the table the problem. Then the table (or the judge) applies a
remedy. In this case it is likely the rewinding of that bleed declaraton and the
untapping of the Repo Man.
And, as you add more details to show how this remedy may occasionally be
sub-optimal, adjust the remedy to match.
> seems like
> 'dirty' play to me. because if i was a jerk and intentionally not
> untapping to lure my predator into bleeding when he shouldn't (ie:
> cheating), that's the kind of thing i'd expect. So i'd usually just
> 'correct' it by untapping my vampire *after* the current action was
> concluded, or something.
Also fine, assuming the table/judge concurs that that is the proper remedy.
> So i still get my untap, and my predator still
> gets to make decisions on his actions based on what the play state looks
> like, rather than being penalised for my mis-representation. even though
> technically it's everyone's job to ensure mandatory effects occur, i'd
> still put more of the burden for them on the methuselah who played the
> card.
Yes, many players would. But the game does not.
Peter D Bakija
> -Repo Man: Pros: Cheap at 1 blood. Can theoretically block something
> in a pinch or take weird actions if need be. Can take the shuffle
> action every turn at +2 stealth. Cons: Someone might steal him. I
> don't use vehicles in the deck, which isn't really a con, so much.
So I ended up using Repo Man (and putting in a Sport Bike, just so an
early Repo Man isn't completely useless), and it seemed like it worked
well. I mean, granted, I won the game right before I started to Repo
shuffle my deck every turn (I already had, like, 8 turns of WMO cards
on the bottom of my deck), but in theory, I was all set up and good to
go.
-Peter
Kevin M.
Please show us this winning Bakija deck.
suoli
> So I ended up using Repo Man (and putting in a Sport Bike, just so an
> early Repo Man isn't completely useless), and it seemed like it worked
> well. I mean, granted, I won the game right before I started to Repo
> shuffle my deck every turn (I already had, like, 8 turns of WMO cards
> on the bottom of my deck), but in theory, I was all set up and good to
> go.
>
> -Peter
Have you considered something like
2x Summoning
1x Carlton
1x Repo Man
(1x Mylan)
2x Abbot
2x Sport Bike?
That should make a very respectable and easy bleed defense for a clan
known for having no bleed defense at all.
Peter D Bakija
> Please show us this winning Bakija deck.
Really? Ok...
After a bit of futzing after last night's game, it currently looks
like this:
"Well. That Was Certainly Unexpected."
1x Commander Sela (6) PRE, cel
1x Julian Sanders (6) CEL, PRE
2x Rigby (5) CEL, PRE
1x Dodd (5) CEL, pre
2x Victor Tolliver (4) CEL
1x Evangeline (4) cel, pre
2x Sarah Brando (3) CEL
1x Jacob Bragg (3) cel
1x Frederick the Weak (2) pre
4x Blood Doll
2x Gang Territory
1x Waste Management Operation
1x Fame
1x Powerbase: Madrid
1x Dreams
1x Black Forest Base
1x Storage Annex
6x Con Boon
4x Dogs of War
2x Perpetual Care
1x Crusade: Toronto
1x Crusade: Barcelona
1x Crusade: Rome
1x Crusade: Berlin
6x Unexpected Coalition
2x Bewitching Oration
4x Games of Instinct
4x Baseball Bat
1x Sport Bike
1x Repo Man
4x Enchant Kindred
8x Weighted Walking Stick
8x Blur
6x Side Strike
4x Sideslip
4x Pursuit
4x Resist Earth's Grasp
6x Taste of Vitae
I'd never claim it is a super Tier 1 winning deck or anything, but has
been surprisingly effective in casual games for the last couple weeks,
winning, like, 3 of the 4 (4 or 5 player) games I've played it in so
far. Probably due to seating more than anything else, and having the
right technology at the right time (my buddy Ben is playing a Gangrel
poke deck a lot recently, and having a deck that is full of dodges and
1 point of damage prevention certainly helps).
In the various tweaks, I had a Sword of Judgement in for a while,
figuring that if I have it on a Blood Doll, and avoid paying for a
Blur twice, it pays for itself. But really, it wasn't ever more
effective than a Bat, so I just put the 4th Bat back in. I like the
Bats (when they could be things like Ivory Bow or Argent Baton) 'cause
in the deck with no untap, the untap is actually fairly handy. I tired
out the Fleetness for the rush, but the 1 blood cost was more of a
pain than it was worth, even for the +1 stealth and occasional +1
stealth bleed (go Commander Sela and your +1 bleed! Woo!) so I swapped
in the Games of Instinct, which should work out ok in the deck (and
might justify removing a couple Tastes). Storage Annex is in there to
hold an early Perpetual Care or something. Probably will have a lot of
trouble with a super aggressive early predator (although few decks
don't), and sometimes can get totally shut down by heavy table votes
(or someone else playing !Brujah I'd imagine, but that hasn't happened
yet :-)
I'm not totally sold on Commander Sela, there, as a 6 cap with PRE,
cel in a deck that is mostly Celerity based, but she is a Bishop, gets
+1 bleed, and has a slightly less obtuse disadvantage than Rigby, so
she tends to actually work out ok (at some point, she was Amelia, who
might actually be just better, but I like the +1 bleed.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> Have you considered something like
> 2x Summoning
> 1x Carlton
> 1x Repo Man
> (1x Mylan)
> 2x Abbot
> 2x Sport Bike?
Huh. That isn't a bad idea at all. But so far, between Con Boons and
rush, the deck does ok vs not super aggressive bleed predators, and
probably would still get killed by such a deck with the above tech.
But I like the theory. And use of Summoning :-)
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> I'm not totally sold on Commander Sela, there, as a 6 cap with PRE,
> cel in a deck that is mostly Celerity based, but she is a Bishop, gets
> +1 bleed, and has a slightly less obtuse disadvantage than Rigby,
Upon further paying attention, Sela actually has a slightly less
obtuse *advantage* that could actually do something in this deck
(although why I'd turn her into an Archbishop instead of someone else
so I get to keep her a Bishop is beyond me. Unless my prey has 5
Bishops in play, each with only 1 blood...)
And hey--here is something: is there a card that makes someone into a
Bishop? I don't think there is, and can't find one (Blood Bath is
close), but might be missing something.
-Peter
wedge
Tobias Smith is all I can find
so Tobias Sela and setties? sounds...good?
Matt
Kevin M.
> And hey--here is something:
> is there a card that makes someone into a Bishop?
/SLAP
Peter D Bakija
> /SLAP
Well, ya know, not so I can make my prey a Bishop and then make them
burn a blood with Sela (although now that I think of it, that sounds
awesome!), but really, I just thought of it as a potential way to get
some easy votes--if there was, like, a non vote action to make someone
a Bishop? That might be worth using. But then, I guess, again, Blood
Bath is pretty much the same thing. And that never seems like a good
idea to use...
-Peter
Kevin M.
Use eight Crusades instead of four. You'll gain votes better that way.
Also, maybe look at Perfect Paragon?
Perfect Paragon
Action Modifier
1 blood
Presence
[pre] Only usable during a referendum. This vampire gains 3 votes.
[PRE] Allies and younger vampires get -1 intercept when attempting
to block this action.
Peter D Bakija
> Use eight Crusades instead of four. You'll gain votes better that way.
Well, yeah, there is that. I wasn't real, like, excited about making
someone a Bishop or anything, but at some point, I was like "Huh. I
wonder if there is a card that is an easy, non vote action to become a
Bishop?" and discovered that apparently no such card existed.
If there was an action to become a Bishop that *didn't* require an
Archbishop to take it, it might be handy. Something like:
"Run for Class President!: 1 blood. Requires a Sabbat vampire of
capacity 4 or greater. +1 stealth. Put this card on the acting
vampire. This vampire is a Bishop."
That might be a, if not exactly good, reasonably playable card. Of
Noble Blood isn't good, as it requires you to be 6+ but more
importantly, it requires you to have a Primogen to make other mid+
minions Primogens. Which is a lot of work for not much gain. If
someone smallish could make themselves into a Bishop (or Primogen, for
that matter), that might be a reasonably useful card that would see
some play. But then, that is not hugely different than Agate Talisman,
and that isn't that good. But having a 1 permanent vote title is
considerably better than having an equipment to tap for 1 vote most of
the time .
> Also, maybe look at Perfect Paragon?
Yeah, I considered that, but not a lot of PRE (4 minions in the
crypt?) and the superior isn't going to work so well when the 4
minions with PRE aren't real big. Probably just a couple Bewitchings
are the way to go. But I certainly considered them :-)
-Peter
XZealot
> On Dec 19, 11:48 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote:
>
> > Use eight Crusades instead of four. You'll gain votes better that way.
>
> Well, yeah, there is that. I wasn't real, like, excited about making
> someone a Bishop or anything, but at some point, I was like "Huh. I
> wonder if there is a card that is an easy, non vote action to become a
> Bishop?" and discovered that apparently no such card existed.
Tobias Smith is that action.
Matthew T. Morgan
Scalpel Tongue, you goofballs! It was made for this deck.
Peter D Bakija
> Tobias Smith is that action.
Sure. But only if you are playing Tobias Smith.
Really? That is the only way in the game to become a Bishop? Every
Bishop in the universe was hanging out with Tobias Smith at some
point?
Again, I'm not, like, wildly hung up on having ways to become a
Bishop. But you'd think there would have been one by now. And if it
was an action a minion could take by themselves, and not have an
unwieldy capacity restriction, it might actually be a goodish card.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> Scalpel Tongue, you goofballs! It was made for this deck.
Also true--I probably should have those in there instead of the
Bewitchings. But the blood cost is, uh, yeah, ok. Negligible. But then
Fredrick couldn't play any cards?
(off to put in Scalpel Tongue...)
-Peter
librarian
But why would you want to be a bishop, except for the 1
vote? Not too many cards key off that (none?).
It would be good if it also granted something else, like
burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept vs (D) actions.
best -
chris
Salem
> Peter D Bakija wrote:
>> Really? That is the only way in the game to become a Bishop? Every
>> Bishop in the universe was hanging out with Tobias Smith at some
>> point?
>>
>> Again, I'm not, like, wildly hung up on having ways to become a
>> Bishop. But you'd think there would have been one by now. And if it
>> was an action a minion could take by themselves, and not have an
>> unwieldy capacity restriction, it might actually be a goodish card.
>>
>
>
> But why would you want to be a bishop, except for the 1 vote? Not too
> many cards key off that (none?).
...templar?
Matthew T. Morgan
It's really the superior choice because it's playable as a reaction and
can tell Legendary Cardinal Orlando to shut it.