[TWD] ECQ 2008 Sweden 22nd March
Alex Ek
Location: Gothcon, Gothenburg
Date: 22nd March 2008
Number of Players: 41
Winner: Johannes Walch
Deck Name : AAAAA (Quintuple A)
Author : Johannes Walch <- Florian Prosper <- Matt Morgan
Description :
Anson, Alexandra, Anneke, Aching Beauty and Ambulance
I got the original idea from Matt Morgan (called Love Doctor), Florian
"Blondin" Prosper did some heavy tweaking to it once I sent him the
list. So mad props go out to these two (really awesome) players. I made
some final adjustments on the morning before the tournament (normale)
and it worked pretty well, having 2GW 7.5VP in the prelims and 1.5VP in
the finals. I am going to write a real report once I am not tired.
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 7 max: 11 average: 9.25
------------------------------------------------------------
4x Anson 8 CEL PRE aus dom prince
Toreador:1
3x Alexandra 11 ANI AUS CEL PRE dom inner circle
Toreador:2
2x Anneke 10 AUS CEL PRE dom justicar
Toreador:1
1x Francois Villon 10 AUS CEL PRE chi obf pot prince
Toreador:2
1x Klaus van der Veke 9 CEL PRE aus obf tha prince
Toreador:2
1x Tatiana Romanov 7 AUS cel pre prince
Toreador:1
Library [75 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [2]
2x Entrancement
Action Modifier [11]
4x Aire of Elation
2x Approximation of Loyalty
3x Change of Target
2x Voter Captivation
Action Modifier/Reaction [2]
2x Scalpel Tongue /* awesome card, both defense + offense */
Combat [7]
7x Majesty
Equipment [3]
2x Ambulance
1x Heart of Nizchetus /* last minute addition, essential for 2nd GW */
Event [1]
1x Anthelios, The Red Star
Master [30]
4x Aching Beauty /* once you have 2+ambulance people stop blocking */
1x Coven, The
3x Direct Intervention
1x Fortschritt Library
1x Giant's Blood
2x Information Highway
2x Jake Washington (Hunter)
6x Minion Tap
2x Parthenon, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
3x Toreador Grand Ball
4x Visit from the Capuchin
Political Action [13]
1x Anarchist Uprising
1x Ancient Influence
1x Ancilla Empowerment
2x Banishment
6x Parity Shift
1x Political Stranglehold
1x Reins of Power
Reaction [6]
2x Deflection
2x On the Qui Vive /* last minute addition, essential to all 3 GW */
2x Telepathic Misdirection
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Sat Mar 22 23:29:39 2008]
Bram Vink
> 4x Aching Beauty /* once you have 2+ambulance people stop blocking */
Why is this? Doesn't ambulance burn, never to come back?
Cheers,
B
John Flournoy
It costs them 2 pool to block. Then, when the combat is done, you use
the Ambulance to keep going. If they want to block a second time and
burn the Ambulance, that's ANOTHER 2 pool, for a total of 4. And if
they block prepared to pay the 4 to burn the ambulance, you might be
playing Change of Target on the initial block denying them the chance
to burn the Ambulance anyway....
> Cheers,
> B
-John Flournoy
Alex Ek
Oh!
Intriguing, my thunderbird apperently posts twd's on it's own, when I'm
not using my computer :P I guess AI tech has come a long way.
A more detailed report will follow, with the qualified players.
Regards
Alex
Johannes Walch
Unfortunately I don't remember all the player愀 names.
But a lot of them ended with "son" ;-)
-----
Round 1)
me -> Tzimisce (Dragos, Meshenka a good deal of combat) -> OBF/PRE
voting with ICs and princes -> AUS/ANI wall
In the first game I did find myself in a really tough spot. Both
predator and prey were playing a good deal of combat and both had
Telepathic Tracking, being able to trump my Majesties. I was pretty much
stuck in my spot, fortunately the other voter exploded in action and put
serious pressure on my predator so I was able to build up by playing a
lot of masters and not taking actions. For the few actions I attempted
poor Anson went to Torpor twice and was finally burned (enabling me to
influence him a 2nd time). My prey was quite low on pool also since he
ate a lot of colateral damage from the votes, but I was never in a
position to oust him (esp. since I didnt get any TGB and only one Aching
Beaty and no Ambulance/Change of Target). Due to my heavy master action
(MT Alexandra, GB and MT again for a net gain of 20 pool!) I was able to
survive and we had 0,5VP for everybody in the end. The Coven made huge
difference in the game, since I played it turn1 so it gave about 60
blood to the table.
Round 2)
me -> Mats (Ravons Clown Car) -> Beast/Potence -> Khazar -> !Tremere
Create Gargoyle
This was a pretty interesting game due to the setup. Mats exploded in
actions from the start creating a scary number of minions. Still the
Potence deck was mostly going forward since Mats didnt take any
aggressive actions (I assume waiting for the 1 turn oust). I received a
good deal of pressure from my pred who gave his little gargoyle fiends
dominate and started to bleed with 3-4 minions each turn. I had
difficulties passing any votes since Mats had a lot of Delaying Tactics
and obviously (and cleverly) wanted me to die. The game boiled down to
the turn where I ousted Mats by trying a Parity Shift first (which he
Delayed) and then ousting him with an Anarchist Uprising. Had he kept
the Delay for the AU I would not have won. The Anarchist uprising also
put the Khazar deck at 5 pool, so the Potence deck went for the
Fame/rescue/dunk and bleed to get his VP. The next two rushes of the
Potence deck (in his next turn) went into Jake Washington and
D.I/Majesty and I took GW, 4VP.
Round 3)
me -> Tzimisce Vote -> Hugh (Weenie !Trem Nephandus) -> Large cap !Trem
bleeding -> ANI wall (my deck, lent to Tore, ouch)
The game went great from the start! My predator was getting a huge deal
of pressure and had a bad hand from the start and wasn愒 able to cycle
too well. My prey put pressure on Hugh, Hugh put pressure on his prey
and I was slowly building up. Unfortunately the Tzimisce and the !Trem
had the vote lock so they happily passed the votes from the Tzimisce
while the !Trem was asking 4 pool to let me pass a Parity Shift. I
decided to wait. It boiled down to the turn of my prey. Hugh had 6 pool,
5 minions. The Tzimisce called an Anarchist Uprising. They voted for it.
I voted for it as well. But I tapped the second vampire of the Tzimisce
with a Scalpel Tongue (which was one of the most hilarious situations.
ever) So he was @ 2 pool and Hugh @ 1. Hugh ousted his prey. I took the
Tzimisce and shortly after Hugh (he had nothing against my votes and
Aching Beauty bleeds). I let the ANI deck withdraw for 0,5, after all it
was my deck hehe. GW, 3VP.
Even with 41 players 2GW, 7,5VP was "only" enough for 3rd seed, wow.
Shouldn愒 have given the 0,5 to the ANI deck. Well, I don愒 like
choosing my seat as well, and on top I had no idea what the other
players were playing anyway.
Finals)
me-> !Brujah Unexpected Coalition Vote -> Erik Weenie Auspex -> Strange
DEM lockdown deck -> Black Hand Assamites Bloat&Bleed#
My prey had a rather small crypt and was influencing Vampires quite
fast. Erik was getting his guys out as well and stuffed them with
equipment, also putting quite some pressure on his prey. Therefore my
predator had a swell time building up and getting one largish vampire
after another. Erik decided not to block the Crusades from my prey
because he was afraid that I would have vote lock then. I tried one
aggressive Parity Shift, playing Approximation of Loyality on his
Unexpected Coaltion, only to get my votes canceled by scalpel tongue.
Well. So I let my prey (who quickly was going up to having 5 Crusades
out) plunge into Erik (who had a hard time blocking all the votes) and
decided to stay and defend by making defensive votes and Parity Shift
against my predator which seemed ok to my prey. Nevertheless I was bled
for lots, esp. after my predator acquired Guarded Rubrics and swapped it
around for (Tattoo Signal and Seraphs Second for untap) multiple 3 point
bleeds per turn. I kept a little pressure on my prey by making bleeds
from time to time. The decisive turn came when I bounced two 3 bleeds
into my prey, moving him into kill range for me. I started my turn by
stealing one of the lockdown decks Thugees with Anson (who had 2x Aching
Beauty and Ambulance by the time). The afformentioned Thugee put another
Archbishop of my prey to torpor (he had allready one down due to Erik愀
Ivory Bow), which gave me vote-lock. I started with an Anarchist
Uprising, because I was sure Erik had either Delaying Tactics or Direct
Intervention in hand. By playing the AU I made sure he had to act now,
because that would have killed him as well. As planned he DI悶d the AU,
which I followed up with a Reins of Power and a bleed to finish off my
prey. Fortunately the DEM lockdown deck torporized and diablerized the
vampire with Guarded Rubrics so I was safe for the next turn (it could
have been problematic, still I had a D.I for the Seraphs Second, so
depending on his order of play I could have stopped him anyway). The
game went to time then and I was the winner with 1,5VP in the finals
(getting the only oust).
I had a really nice time in Gothenburg, despite the nasty snowish
weather. The players are among my favourites in the V:TES world and it
is absolutely astonishing that everybody speaks decent English.
_________________
agzocgud
> Uprising, because I was sure Erik had either Delaying Tactics or Direct
> Intervention in hand. By playing the AU I made sure he had to act now,
> which I followed up with a Reins of Power and a bleed to finish off my
> prey.
Perhaps Sten should have interrupted and forbid you to play AU since
it would have given me the GW. I made some small mistakes myself,
could have played loss on the ambulance, left rubric on a non-
assamite, not voting seraph and perhaps started bleeding all-out one
turn too early.
Thanks for a good game
/Mathias, your predator.
Here´s my deck btw:
Deck Name : Hot as a Kamut
Author : Mathias Olsson
How-to-play : Sit back and build for a while. Get two seraphs and
rubric. Bleed for 9-13 each turn.
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 9 average: 7
------------------------------------------------------------
4x Djuhah, The Bronze 7 OBF QUI aus cel pre Assamite:5
3x Izhim abd Azrael 9 CEL OBF QUI THA pot Assamite:5
1x Nizzam al-Latif 9 ANI CEL OBF QUI dem Assamite:5
1x Joe "Boot" Hill 7 CEL QUI for obf Assamite:4
1x Reza Fatir, The Da 6 CEL QUI obf pro Assamite:4
1x Rashid Stockton 4 cel obf vic !Gangrel:5
1x Lubomira Hradok 3 OBF !Nosferatu:5
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [30]
1x Blithe Acceptance
4x Haqim's Law: Leadership
4x Khabar: Glory
7x Loss
9x Reunion Kamut
5x Tattoo Signal
Action Modifier [23]
4x Elder Impersonation
5x Faceless Night
6x Lost in Crowds
5x Seraph's Second
1x Spying Mission
2x Veil the Legions
Action Modifier/Combat [5]
2x Resist Earth's Grasp
3x Swallowed by the Night
Combat [6]
6x Preternatural Evasion
Equipment [5]
1x .44 Magnum
2x Guarded Rubrics
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Ivory Bow
Event [1]
1x Uncoiling, The
Master [18]
2x Alamut
1x Dominion
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Drop Point Network
3x Grooming the Protege
1x Information Highway
1x Perfectionist
1x Powerbase: Zurich
1x Secure Haven
2x Vessel
1x Wash
2x Yoruba Shrine
Political Action [2]
1x Seraph
1x Watchtower: Greatest Fall
Suggested Changes:
Remove:
-1 Blithe Acceptance
-1 Grooming the Protege
-1 Preternatural Evasion
-1 Perfectionist (?)
Add some of these:
+ Hungry Coyote, Census Taker, Marijava Thuggee, Direct Intervention
Sten During
>> I started with an Anarchist
>> Uprising, because I was sure Erik had either Delaying Tactics or Direct
>> Intervention in hand. By playing the AU I made sure he had to act now,
>> because that would have killed him as well. As planned he DI´ed the AU,
>> which I followed up with a Reins of Power and a bleed to finish off my
>> prey.
>
> Perhaps Sten should have interrupted and forbid you to play AU since
> it would have given me the GW. I made some small mistakes myself,
> could have played loss on the ambulance, left rubric on a non-
> assamite, not voting seraph and perhaps started bleeding all-out one
> turn too early.
>
He's always able to attempt to vote his own vote down, so preventing
him from playing the card is kind of hard :D
Sten
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
extrala
>...
> Finals)
>
> me-> !Brujah Unexpected Coalition Vote -> Erik Weenie Auspex -> Strange
> DEM lockdown deck -> Black Hand Assamites Bloat&Bleed#
>
who made it the finals of an ECQ(!!).
Btw, I would also like to see the ranking (archon) of the swedish ECQ
tournament. Same applies to the swiss ECQ (in Geneva) as well, which
took place at the same day as the ECQ in Gothenburg.
Regards, Ralf
====================
http://extrala.blogspot.com
Alex Ek
AFAIK you're allowed to self-oust by mistake. Like playing and voting an
AU through not realising I've just entranced a Thuggee. Or perhaps
playing a DI while on one pool when there's an AR in play, not
considering that I have recived The Coven and have a Vessel.
Hmm, that example kinda sucked.
LSJ, care to say something about this??
Regards
Alex
Alex Ek
I dreaded for someone to ask for a decklist from this event. A horrible
accident involving a mushroom traveling at almost lightspeed, a bottle
of St Peters cream stout and a pile of decklists resulted in total
devastation to the decklists.
I can still find mushroom fragments in my apartment. Oh, the horror :O
Errm, well, if I get a hold of the player I will ask him to post his
decklist and/or e-mail it to me.
Regards
Alex
Salem
IANLSJ, but basically the original suggestion was "perhaps he should
have been prevented from doing this thing that, when it all worked
through, resulted in his prey getting ousted".
I can't possibly see how that could be a good idea.
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
agzocgud
> >>>> Uprising, because I was sure Erik had either Delaying Tactics or Direct
> >>>> Intervention in hand. By playing the AU I made sure he had to act now,
> >>>> because that would have killed him as well. As planned he DI´ed the AU,
> >>>> which I followed up with a Reins of Power and a bleed to finish off my
> >>>> prey.
> >>> Perhaps Sten should have interrupted and forbid you to play AU since
> >>> it would have given me the GW. I made some small mistakes myself,
> >>> could have played loss on the ambulance, left rubric on a non-
> >>> assamite, not voting seraph and perhaps started bleeding all-out one
> >>> turn too early.
>
> >> He's always able to attempt to vote his own vote down, so preventing
> >> him from playing the card is kind of hard :D
>
> >> Sten
>
> > AFAIK you're allowed to self-oust by mistake. Like playing and voting an
> > AU through not realising I've just entranced a Thuggee. Or perhaps
> > playing a DI while on one pool when there's an AR in play, not
> > considering that I have recived The Coven and have a Vessel.
Ok, I realize that just playing AR doesn´t cause for judge
inteference. If he should interfere at all, it would be at a later
point (in the referendum). At what point should the judge interfere
and point out that a player is not playing to win? 10 examples from
LSJ would be helpful. The gap between player skill level and the
optimal way to win is rather large in the v:tes community (not
pointing at Johannes, guess this happens more or less every game).
Salem
> Ok, I realize that just playing AR doesn´t cause for judge
> inteference. If he should interfere at all, it would be at a later
> point (in the referendum). At what point should the judge interfere
> and point out that a player is not playing to win?
as long as the judge believes that the player themself believes they are
playing to win: never.
judges should never rule against bad play. they should only step in when
they think the player is no longer playing to win.
> 10 examples from
> LSJ would be helpful. The gap between player skill level and the
> optimal way to win is rather large in the v:tes community (not
> pointing at Johannes, guess this happens more or less every game).
which is why the judge should not step in when people aren't playing the
optimal way. They should only step in when they think the player is
purposely not playing to win.
Johannes Walch
In this situation my only chance was to oust my prey *this* turn or
being ousted by my predator. Also I had a hunch that Erik had a Delaying
Tactics or more likely a Direct Intervention in hand. So I chose to play
the Anarchist Uprising which would have killed me, my prey and Erik
because that was the only action which Erik *had* to D.I in order to
still win the game. Actually I did not realize that the AU would kill me
as well (like Alex said, I totally forgot about that Thugee), but in any
way it was my only chance. Luckily the turnout was as expected when Erik
DI´ed my Anarchist Uprising so I could pull of my Reins of Power.
So even when the Anarchist Uprising wasn´t canceled I guess the judge
should not have stepped in anyway because a) it was "bad" play since I
didn´t realize it would kill me as well and b) I was dead the next turn
anyway, so this was my best shot at gaining a VP (I think playing to win
is still trying to score a VP even when you don´t have the chance to win
the final, at least it gives you some more rating points).
ericson...@gmail.com
cancelled the AU?
Would you have voted against in the referendum and tried to call Reins
of Power with another minion (assuming you knew that the AU would have
ousted you as well)?
I think it turned out to be a great play, putting Erik in a lose/lose
situation and winning you the game.
It would still be interesting to know how the referendum from the AU
should have been handled by a judge. If Johannes would have been
allowed to self oust, Erik had no choice but to play the DI. If
Johannes hadn't been allowed to self oust, Erik could have saved the
DI for some later need, eg. Reins of Power. In short: Was the AU a
valid threat?
My thanks to the Göteborg community for a fun and well organized
event.
/Samuel
Johannes Walch
> Just out of curiosity. What would you have done if Erik hadn't
> cancelled the AU?
> Would you have voted against in the referendum and tried to call Reins
> of Power with another minion (assuming you knew that the AU would have
> ousted you as well)?
I would have voted for the referendum and would have collected my VP for
+4 RTP (and my honor for what it counts). I was dead the next turn.
> I think it turned out to be a great play, putting Erik in a lose/lose
> situation and winning you the game.
Well it was my intention to make a great play. The small oversight of
possibly killing myself should be forgiven ;-)
> It would still be interesting to know how the referendum from the AU
> should have been handled by a judge. If Johannes would have been
> allowed to self oust, Erik had no choice but to play the DI. If
> Johannes hadn't been allowed to self oust, Erik could have saved the
> DI for some later need, eg. Reins of Power. In short: Was the AU a
> valid threat?
I think so, since the D.I needs to be played before referendum. Also a
judge should *never* prevent me from self-ousting accidentially. Because
that is just bad-play and not not-playing-to-win. But a small
clarification from the Great Beast of V:TES rules would certainly
appreciated.
> My thanks to the Göteborg community for a fun and well organized
> event.
Oh yes, it was great :)
Johannes Walch
>> Would you have voted against in the referendum and tried to call Reins
>> of Power with another minion (assuming you knew that the AU would have
>> ousted you as well)?
>
> I would have voted for the referendum and would have collected my VP for
> +4 RTP (and my honor for what it counts). I was dead the next turn.
That is if someone would have notified me of the fact that I am about to
die. If not I would have voted for because that seemed like a good plan,
lol.
James Coupe
<johanne...@vekn.de> writes:
>I think so, since the D.I needs to be played before referendum. Also a
>judge should *never* prevent me from self-ousting accidentially.
>Because that is just bad-play and not not-playing-to-win.
Sometimes a judge may intervene there, if they think that the accidental
self-ousting isn't accidental. That is, a judge can't read your mind
and has to use some sort of threshold in his judgment. At some point,
an accidental self-oust may be so egregiously bad that a judge thinks
you're taking the piss - even if you aren't.
Obviously, it would be nice if it *never* happened. However, stating
things quite so cut-and-dried gives fodder for people in the future to
say "Rah, rah, rah, LSJ said this should never happen, and it did, so I
want everyone dead, and all the prizes, AND A FUCKING PONY."
Somewhere along the line, the judge's threshold for bad play vs play-to-
lose may not quite correspond with reality, because a judge doesn't have
ESP.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Salem
> b) I was dead the next turn
> anyway, so this was my best shot at gaining a VP (I think playing to win
> is still trying to score a VP even when you don´t have the chance to win
> the final, at least it gives you some more rating points).
If you were dead anyway, you can collect your 2nd place spot however you
want. Ratings don't come into it. You're free to oust yourself and gain
a VP, oust yourself and not gain a VP, whatever.
Sten During
> So even when the Anarchist Uprising wasn´t canceled I guess the judge
> should not have stepped in anyway because a) it was "bad" play since I
> didn´t realize it would kill me as well and b) I was dead the next turn
> anyway, so this was my best shot at gaining a VP (I think playing to win
> is still trying to score a VP even when you don´t have the chance to win
> the final, at least it gives you some more rating points).
As I said, stepping in wouldn't have been an option until the referendum
anyway. Even after the political action is successful, but prior to any
votes being cast I'm not supposed to step in, because, while you are all
haggling about whether to vote it down or not, the others don't know if
the acting Meth is sitting on a Bribes or not.
Now, had you ever come as far as casting votes, well, that would have
been a different dilemma for me, but that is one that I never had to
handle. I don't think I would have had to step in even then unless
someone had pointed out that you were on the verge of killing yourself
and thus losing the final round.