{lsj} Enkil cog qn
Salem
vampire the ability to take an action even if the vampire is tapped?
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
"In *my* Assamite deck, this would pwn you in teh FAEC, so shut up."
"Thats only cos u've never sene mi Gionavvi PUNCHnMUCNH u asshat."
- James Coupe
jcrossn...@gmail.com
> this might be a stupid question, but does tapping Enkil Cog give the
> vampire the ability to take an action even if the vampire is tapped?
Sure, but only if that action can be taken while tapped, ala Force of
Will or Movement of the Slow Body.
Jesse
LSJ
Correct.
peter....@gmail.com
Then does taking an action via tapping Enkil Cog with an untapped
vampire tap that vampire?
If it does, Enkil Cog is way worse than I thought.
Enkil Cog
Requires a vampire of capacity 10 or more. Unique. Only usable when
this vampire successfully bleeds your prey (play after resolution).
Put this card on this vampire. During any Methuselah`s minion phase,
this vampire may tap this card to attempt an action. This vampire has
+1 bleed.
Thank you for your answers.
John Flournoy
> On nov. 20, 14:12, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > jcrossnicker...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Salem asked:
> > >> this might be a stupid question, but does tapping Enkil Cog give the
> > >> vampire the ability to take an action even if the vampire is tapped?
>
> > > Sure, but only if that action can be taken while tapped, ala Force of
> > > Will or Movement of the Slow Body.
>
> > Correct.
>
> Then does taking an action via tapping Enkil Cog with an untapped
> vampire tap that vampire?
Taking an action always taps the acting vampire, unless card text says
otherwise (and Enkil Cog doesn't say otherwise.) Tapping EC lets you
act during someone else's turn (like a personal Madness Network), not
act without tapping.
> If it does, Enkil Cog is way worse than I thought.
It's still very strong.
> Enkil Cog
> Requires a vampire of capacity 10 or more. Unique. Only usable when
> this vampire successfully bleeds your prey (play after resolution).
> Put this card on this vampire. During any Methuselah`s minion phase,
> this vampire may tap this card to attempt an action. This vampire has
> +1 bleed.
>
> Thank you for your answers.
-John Flournoy
Thrall of Arika
The free, permanent +1 bleed is already a strong effect, especially
without having to take a separate action for it (like recruiting Tasha
Morgan, say). Being able to take an action on someone elses turn is
just icing, really.
Chris, Thrall of Arika
Dasein
> without having to take a separate action for it (like recruiting Tasha
> Morgan, say). Being able to take an action on someone elses turn is
> just icing, really.
>
> Chris, Thrall of Arika
Yep. There are a couple of stupid tricks you can do with the cog as
well. I’ve thought of one (thoroughly janky, but fairly amusing).
Nergal (basic) gets Concordance, bleeds for lots, gets an Enkil Cog
(and now has built in 4 bleed). From this point on you stop untapping
him at all (no infernal penalty). In your turn you bleed for 6 with
Force of will, reduce the cost by one so its free, and it does you 1
(non-agg) damage). Pscychomachia or Daring the Dawn if someone blocks
(take another damage). On someone else’s turn, you tap the cog and
bleed your prey for 6 again with Force of Will. Or maybe Sense the Sin
and make it 8.
But yeah anyway I’m not suggesting this would be a serious deck, more
just deranged musings. But props if anyone pulled it off.
I still believe the main use of Cog would be Homunculus, which nobody
seems to be mentioning. Presumably on Stani, so she can bleed for 8
zillion on my turn AND somebody else’s turn (which also means I can DI
your flick).
Alternatively, Enkidu with a cog getting retainers and then rushing on
your prey’s turn.
You could put a Homunculus on Enkidu, but its kinda overkill since he
untaps from retainers anyway.
Actually Cog would be perfect for Enkidu Raptor. Bleed, get a cog,
then on my next turn I get a raptor, untap at end of turn, then prey’s
turn I tap the cog and can get another raptor, or rush and pack alpha
a raptor, etc.
brandons...@yahoo.com
> then on my next turn I get a raptor, untap at end of turn, then prey’s
> turn I tap the cog and can get another raptor, or rush and pack alpha
> a raptor, etc.
Eww... Ira, are you reading this? I hope not ;P
XZealot
> > The free, permanent +1 bleed is already a strong effect, especially
> > without having to take a separate action for it (like recruiting Tasha
> > Morgan, say). Being able to take an action on someone elses turn is
> > just icing, really.
>
> > Chris, Thrall of Arika
>
> Yep. There are a couple of stupid tricks you can do with the cog as
> well.
10-cap Anarch who uses the Powerbase LA to untap to take advantage of
Enkil Cog
10-cap Baalie who uses Concordance to untap to take advantage of Enkil
Cog
10-cap Anybody who uses Metro Underground to take advantage of Enkil
Cog
10-cap Masika who uses his special to take advantage of Enkil Cog
10-cap with Pier 13 who equips a Leather Jacket/Baseball Bat bearer
who untaps to take advantage of Enkil Cog
10-cap anarch who uses Enkil Cog to turn his freshly recruited Cry
Wolf into an Abomination
10-cap Sabbat who uses Enkil Cog to bleed after being untapped from
the Appropriate Crusade
10-cap Obt vampire who uses superior Descent into Darkness to come
back into play untapped.
10-cap vampire uses Eluding the Arms of Morpheus (or any other untap
reaction) to untap and fail to block to take advantage of Enkil Cog
10- cap Fiendish Tongue Tzimice who burns a blood during your discard
to untap and take advantage of Enkil Cog
10-cap Trophy: Retainer bearer who keeps cycling Ghoul Escorts to tap
and bleed your prey out by taking advantage of Enkil Cog.
10-cap Assimite who gets an extended use out of Khabar:Glory by
bleeding with Enkil Cog and untapping with Black Sunrise.
10-cap Ahrimane who uses Muricia's Call to untap at the end of their
turn to take advantage of Enkil Cog
10-cap Cheeseball who puts two Return to Innocence on himself to
guarantee that his prey is ousted during his next untap phase.
I am sure I missed something....
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Dasein
>
> 10-cap Sabbat who uses Enkil Cog to bleed after being untapped from
> the Appropriate Crusade
>
> 10-cap Obt vampire who uses superior Descent into Darkness to come
> back into play untapped.
>
> 10-cap vampire uses Eluding the Arms of Morpheus (or any other untap
> reaction) to untap and fail to block to take advantage of Enkil Cog
>
> 10- cap Fiendish Tongue Tzimice who burns a blood during your discard
> to untap and take advantage of Enkil Cog
>
> 10-cap Trophy: Retainer bearer who keeps cycling Ghoul Escorts to tap
> and bleed your prey out by taking advantage of Enkil Cog.
>
> 10-cap Assimite who gets an extended use out of Khabar:Glory by
> bleeding with Enkil Cog and untapping with Black Sunrise.
>
> 10-cap Ahrimane who uses Muricia's Call to untap at the end of their
> turn to take advantage of Enkil Cog
>
> 10-cap Cheeseball who puts two Return to Innocence on himself to
> guarantee that his prey is ousted during his next untap phase.
>
> I am sure I missed something....
Nice work Norm! I particularly like this:
> 10-cap anarch who uses Enkil Cog to turn his freshly recruited Cry
> Wolf into an Abomination
You could also put a skillcard on Advanced Petaniqua (to meet Cog
requirements). She doesn't need to meet requirements of recruiting
werewolves, so can Cry Wolf without being an anarch. Getting a
skillcard is generally easier than becoming anarch.
She has also OBF for stealthing stuff through, THA for Rutor's Hand
multi-act madness (which I imagine would be rather good for Enkil
Cog), DAI for Concordance untappy goodness, and +1 strength and a
press if she has to help finish off someone herself.
But anyway, yes you've missed a few.
10 cap Sabbat vampire (such as Laz or Caliean) gets Eternal Vigilance,
then in my prey's turn untaps and either fails to block or plays
Forced Vigilance / Minor Irritation / Majesty etc. Cailean would be
awesome actually as he can block, set range to long, Majesty, then
bleed during my predator's minion phase for lots (he has PRE + dom),
grab the edge and tap Using the Advantage to gain 2 pool.
10 cap Setite called Nakhthorheb gets a Cog. Bleeds under the AI radar
for 2 on my turn, use his built in untap ability, then on my prey's
turn bleeds for 5 with Legal / Public (plus possibly more from an
action mod). Prey can't AI since it's his turn. And I can DI his
Deflection.
10 cap Nos called Cock Robin gets a cog, bleeds for 3 with Deep Song,
untaps, bleeds again with Deep Song (or something else) in my prey's
turn. Season to taste with Tier of Souls for sh1ts and/or giggles.
10+cap vampire with CEL gets a cog, bleeds with Flurry of Action.
Untaps. Bleeds again in another turn.
There are probably yet more.
Blooded Sand
Nak Bleeds for metric sheetloads in my preys turn, i can use DI/DI2 to
screw his bounce, and then can Entice for more pool damagin yumminess.
10 Cap Malk, with Victoria and dreams, Bleeds end of preds turn, gets
me edge, I gain mucho pool each turn....
Clément
> On Nov 20, 6:35 pm, Dasein wrote:
>
> > > The free, permanent +1 bleed is already a strong effect, especially
> > > without having to take a separate action for it (like recruiting Tasha
> > > Morgan, say). Being able to take an action on someone elses turn is
> > > just icing, really.
>
> > > Chris, Thrall of Arika
>
> > Yep. There are a couple of stupid tricks you can do with the cog as
> > well.
(...)
> 10-cap Masika who uses his special to take advantage of Enkil Cog
Also any 10+ cap group 1 or 2 Toreador using Alexandra's special to
take advantage of Enkil Cog.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Jozxyqk
> I am sure I missed something....
10-cap Lasombra plays Baltimore Purge?
XZealot
> You could also put a skillcard on Advanced Petaniqua (to meet Cog
> requirements). She doesn't need to meet requirements of recruiting
> werewolves, so can Cry Wolf without being an anarch. Getting a
> skillcard is generally easier than becoming anarch.
Apparently you have never seen Anarch Convert....
Chris Berger
Skillcards don't cost a pool (or alternately, a crypt draw)...
Of course, Galaric's Legacy still tends to counter the original
point...
XZealot
> On Nov 21, 7:54 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > You could also put a skillcard on Advanced Petaniqua (to meet Cog
> > > requirements). She doesn't need to meet requirements of recruiting
> > > werewolves, so can Cry Wolf without being an anarch. Getting a
> > > skillcard is generally easier than becoming anarch.
>
> > Apparently you have never seen Anarch Convert....
>
> Skillcards don't cost a pool (or alternately, a crypt draw)...
Anarch Convert costs nothing more than a transfer. READ THE CARD
Chris Berger
>
> > > Apparently you have never seen Anarch Convert....
>
> > Skillcards don't cost a pool (or alternately, a crypt draw)...
>
> Anarch Convert costs nothing more than a transfer. READ THE CARD
>
either a pool or a crypt draw.
XZealot
No, you either GAIN a POOL or get a crypt draw when you use Anarch
Convert to change a ready vampire to an Anarch.
I would recommend the new book: The Idiots Guide to Reading. :P
James Coupe
.com>, XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes:
>On Nov 21, 10:31 am, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>> On Nov 21, 8:42 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > > Apparently you have never seen Anarch Convert....
>>
>> > > Skillcards don't cost a pool (or alternately, a crypt draw)...
>>
>> > Anarch Convert costs nothing more than a transfer. READ THE CARD
>>
>> You READ THE CARD, Norm. I'm not an idiot. Anarch Convert costs
>> either a pool or a crypt draw.
>
>No, you either GAIN a POOL
Yes. You GAIN a POOL and OTHER randomly capitalized WORDS. However,
you have already spent a pool on the anarch. So you don't GAIN a POOL,
you get a NET GAIN of ZERO. Do YOU see NOW? On top of THAT, you have
ALSO used up a slot in your uncontrolled region - so where you once
would have had FOUR vampires you NOW only have THREE real vampires, so
you have USED a CRYPT draw. So, net gain of zero pool and an
uncontrolled region slot used.
>or get a crypt draw when you use Anarch
>Convert to change a ready vampire to an Anarch.
At the cost of one pool, because Anarch Convert costs a pool to bring
out. You now have the same four slots you would have had in your
uncontrolled region (with the replacement vampire possibly being brought
out later), but it has cost you a pool. Because you still have the same
four potential real vampires to bring out, one of them is Anarch, and
you are a pool down. Because Anarch Convert costs a pool.
>I would recommend the new book: The Idiots Guide to Reading. :P
I would recommend the new book: Shove It Up Your Ass, You're Wrong.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
XZealot
> In message <4d73f373-ccca-4194-88d6-eb178e022...@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups
>
> .com>, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> writes:
> >On Nov 21, 10:31 am, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >> On Nov 21, 8:42 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >> > > > Apparently you have never seen Anarch Convert....
>
> >> > > Skillcards don't cost a pool (or alternately, a crypt draw)...
>
> >> > Anarch Convert costs nothing more than a transfer. READ THE CARD
>
> >> You READ THE CARD, Norm. I'm not an idiot. Anarch Convert costs
> >> either a pool or a crypt draw.
>
> >No, you either GAIN a POOL
>
> Yes. You GAIN a POOL and OTHER randomly capitalized WORDS. However,
> you have already spent a pool on the anarch. So you don't GAIN a POOL,
> you get a NET GAIN of ZERO. Do YOU see NOW? On top of THAT, you have
> ALSO used up a slot in your uncontrolled region - so where you once
> would have had FOUR vampires you NOW only have THREE real vampires, so
> you have USED a CRYPT draw. So, net gain of zero pool and an
> uncontrolled region slot used.
Which is exactly what I said. It only costs a transfer. Thanks for
agreeing with me James.
> >or get a crypt draw when you use Anarch
> >Convert to change a ready vampire to an Anarch.
>
> At the cost of one pool, because Anarch Convert costs a pool to bring
> out. You now have the same four slots you would have had in your
> uncontrolled region (with the replacement vampire possibly being brought
> out later), but it has cost you a pool. Because you still have the same
> four potential real vampires to bring out, one of them is Anarch, and
> you are a pool down. Because Anarch Convert costs a pool.
>
> >I would recommend the new book: The Idiots Guide to Reading. :P
>
> I would recommend the new book: Shove It Up Your Ass, You're Wrong.
It's funny that you're English because apparently you can't read
English. You said exactly what i have been telling Chris Berger,
which all stems from the notion that it is difficult to build a high
cap anarch deck while in fact it is not.
Thanks for putting in your two cents so that we know that your heart
is still working while your brain may not be.
James Coupe
.com>, XZealot <xze...@cox.net> writes:
>On Nov 21, 10:59 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
>> In message <4d73f373-ccca-4194-88d6-eb178e022...@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups
>>
>> .com>, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> writes:
>> >On Nov 21, 10:31 am, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>> >> On Nov 21, 8:42 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> > > > Apparently you have never seen Anarch Convert....
>>
>> >> > > Skillcards don't cost a pool (or alternately, a crypt draw)...
>>
>> >> > Anarch Convert costs nothing more than a transfer. READ THE CARD
>>
>> >> You READ THE CARD, Norm. I'm not an idiot. Anarch Convert costs
>> >> either a pool or a crypt draw.
>>
>> >No, you either GAIN a POOL
>>
>> Yes. You GAIN a POOL and OTHER randomly capitalized WORDS. However,
>> you have already spent a pool on the anarch. So you don't GAIN a POOL,
>> you get a NET GAIN of ZERO. Do YOU see NOW? On top of THAT, you have
>> ALSO used up a slot in your uncontrolled region - so where you once
>> would have had FOUR vampires you NOW only have THREE real vampires, so
>> you have USED a CRYPT draw. So, net gain of zero pool and an
>> uncontrolled region slot used.
>
>Which is exactly what I said. It only costs a transfer. Thanks for
>agreeing with me James.
No, Norm. That's using a transfer and a crypt draw. You only get to
bring out three vampires now, unless you pay for another crypt draw.
Before, you could bring out four real vampires, without paying for
another crypt draw.
>
>> >or get a crypt draw when you use Anarch
>> >Convert to change a ready vampire to an Anarch.
>>
>> At the cost of one pool, because Anarch Convert costs a pool to bring
>> out. You now have the same four slots you would have had in your
>> uncontrolled region (with the replacement vampire possibly being brought
>> out later), but it has cost you a pool. Because you still have the same
>> four potential real vampires to bring out, one of them is Anarch, and
>> you are a pool down. Because Anarch Convert costs a pool.
>>
>> >I would recommend the new book: The Idiots Guide to Reading. :P
>>
>> I would recommend the new book: Shove It Up Your Ass, You're Wrong.
>
>It's funny that you're English because apparently you can't read
>English. You said exactly what i have been telling Chris Berger,
No, I didn't.
You said:
"Anarch Convert costs nothing more than a transfer. READ THE CARD"
Which is patently false.
>which all stems from the notion that it is difficult to build a high
>cap anarch deck while in fact it is not.
I didn't say it was difficult. I do, however, disagree that it costs
nothing more than a transfer, because it doesn't.
>Thanks for putting in your two cents so that we know that your heart
>is still working while your brain may not be.
You either:
- get the same number of real vampires to play with in your uncontrolled
region, but pay a pool
- get one less real vampire to play with, but pay no pool.
Neither of these is just a transfer. I did, in fact, READ THE CARD.
You, however, think I'm agreeing with what you said, when I'm really
not.
XZealot
> In message <807e747e-eda1-4003-97d2-b889d1566...@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups
What else does it cost?
> >which all stems from the notion that it is difficult to build a high
> >cap anarch deck while in fact it is not.
>
> I didn't say it was difficult. I do, however, disagree that it costs
> nothing more than a transfer, because it doesn't.
>
> >Thanks for putting in your two cents so that we know that your heart
> >is still working while your brain may not be.
>
> You either:
>
> - get the same number of real vampires to play with in your uncontrolled
> region, but pay a pool
> - get one less real vampire to play with, but pay no pool.
Which while certainly true, it is inconsequential. We are talking
about a deck that influences out a 10-Cap Anarch as any deck that
plays with a high cap vampire as its star will almost never influence
out all four vampires in its uncontrolled region. So it is a
negligible cost.
> Neither of these is just a transfer. I did, in fact, READ THE CARD.
> You, however, think I'm agreeing with what you said, when I'm really
> not.
You are trying not to, but in fact you are as that is not a cost at
all for a high cap deck. So your point is irrelavent.
Thanks for trying. The bus driver will give you a sawdust cookie to
eat on the way home. You probably won't notice the diffference there
either.
jcrossn...@gmail.com
> 10-cap with Pier 13 who equips a Leather Jacket/Baseball Bat bearer
> who untaps to take advantage of Enkil Cog
While one could certainly do what this literally says, provided some
means of untapping, it should be noted that importing a Jacket or Bat
via Pier 13 does not untap you at the end of the turn.
Jesse
jcrossn...@gmail.com
> 10-cap with Pier 13 who equips a Leather Jacket/Baseball Bat bearer
> who untaps to take advantage of Enkil Cog
Sounds reasonable, but what does Pier 13 have to do with anything?
Jesse, who knows the rules of the game reasonably well, at least most
of the time.
Meej
"Not a significant cost" and "not a cost at all" are not the same.
- D.J.
XZealot
True, it reminds me of a phrase I have found to be true.
"Sex is alot like oxygen. It's no big deal unleass you aren't getting
any."
In a similar matter, the similarity between no cost and not a
signifigant cost is that you shouldn't worry about either when making
considerations about costs of playing as there are actual signifigant
costs that you should be concerned about.
Specifically, a 10-cap Anarch deck that decides to use anarch converts
is not incurring a signifigant cost, in fact unless the player intends
upon influencing all 4 of his vampires into play during a game (which
is practically suicidal, in most cases), then it is not a cost at all.
Do you see how that works together?
LSJ
> On Nov 21, 12:43 pm, Meej <dj...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Nov 21, 1:19 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 21, 11:51 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> You, however, think I'm agreeing with what you said, when I'm really
>>>> not.
>>> You are trying not to, but in fact you are as that is not a cost at
>>> all for a high cap deck. So your point is irrelavent.
>> "Not a significant cost" and "not a cost at all" are not the same.
>
> True, it reminds me of a phrase I have found to be true.
>
> "Sex is alot like oxygen. It's no big deal unleass you aren't getting
> any."
>
> In a similar matter, the similarity between no cost and not a
> signifigant cost is that you shouldn't worry about either when making
> considerations about costs of playing as there are actual signifigant
> costs that you should be concerned about.
>
> Specifically, a 10-cap Anarch deck that decides to use anarch converts
> is not incurring a signifigant cost, in fact unless the player intends
> upon influencing all 4 of his vampires into play during a game (which
> is practically suicidal, in most cases), then it is not a cost at all.
>
> Do you see how that works together?
OK. So, to sum up:
The cost of using Anarch Convert is...
... if you choose to "gain 1 pool"
1 transfer and 1 crypt draw (aka one card in your uncontrolled region).
... if you choose to "draw a crypt card"
1 transfer and 1 pool
Thanks everyone, and drive safely.
James Coupe
>> You said:
>>
>> "Anarch Convert costs nothing more than a transfer. READ THE CARD"
>>
>> Which is patently false.
>
>What else does it cost?
As LSJ has told us, it costs either a pool or a crypt draw.
The cost of using Anarch Convert is...
... if you choose to "gain 1 pool"
1 transfer and 1 crypt draw (aka one card in your uncontrolled
region).
... if you choose to "draw a crypt card"
1 transfer and 1 pool
Now, either you'll apologise for telling me that my heart is working but
my brain may not be, or you'll tell LSJ that his brain isn't working
too. LSJ has said nothing more than Chris said or I said - it's exactly
the same point made by all three of us.
Why you felt the need to continually make the same wrong point
repeatedly, now corrected by LSJ, I have no idea.
XZealot
> As LSJ has told us, it costs either a pool or a crypt draw.
>
> The cost of using Anarch Convert is...
>
> ... if you choose to "gain 1 pool"
> 1 transfer and 1 crypt draw (aka one card in your uncontrolled
> region).
....which for a 10-cap Enkil Cog Anarch deck isn't a cost at all as a
deck centered around a 10-cap superstar doesn't influence out all 4 of
it's initial vampires anyway.
> Now, either you'll apologise for telling me that my heart is working but
> my brain may not be
You're brain really isn't working if you expect an apology.
You might want to get that checked out.
Chris Berger
> > As LSJ has told us, it costs either a pool or a crypt draw.
>
> > The cost of using Anarch Convert is...
>
> > ... if you choose to "gain 1 pool"
> > 1 transfer and 1 crypt draw (aka one card in your uncontrolled
> > region).
>
> ....which for a 10-cap Enkil Cog Anarch deck isn't a cost at all as a
> deck centered around a 10-cap superstar doesn't influence out all 4 of
> it's initial vampires anyway.
>
all to do with the cost of an Anarch Convert.
Anarch Convert costs either a pool or a crypt draw, that's all I ever
said, after which you so vehemently disagreed and decided to start a
flamewar over it. This is a ridiculous argument to even be having.
Here's how it went:
Chris: An Anarch Convert doesn't make becoming anarch strictly easier
than gaining a skill card because it costs either a pool or a crypt
draw. Galric's (sic - I always mispell that) Legacy makes becoming
anarch easier than gaining a skill card because it's essentially the
same but a Trifle.
Norm: You're a fucking idiot. Anarch Convert doesn't cost a pool or a
crypt draw.
Chris: I'm not an idiot. Check again. It does.
Norm: Learn to read you fucking moron. God you're stupid. It doesn't
cost pool, it gives you pool, retard.
James: *smackdown* Anarch Convert does cost a pool or a crypt draw
and here's why. Shut up, you're wrong.
Norm: So you agree that it doesn't have a cost. It's not a
significant cost, so, like I said, no cost. Something about 10 caps
for no reason. Also, you are stupid too.
Meej: Not having a significant cost isn't the same as not having a
cost at all. It does have a cost.
LSJ: Yes, it does. I go on to list exactly what the cost is, though
I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time on this thread.
James: There you go, Norm. Care to apologise (English spelling) for
being an asshat?
Norm: Never! I will never apologize to the likes of you Some more
about 10 caps. It does have a cost, but I was totally not wrong when
I said that it didn't have a cost. James is still stupid.
Chris: I'm going to prolong this idiotic argument by restating what
everyone has already said in my own words. Also, Norm is stupid,
sometimes. Like now, for instance.
James Coupe
>>
>> The cost of using Anarch Convert is...
>>
>> ... if you choose to "gain 1 pool"
>> 1 transfer and 1 crypt draw (aka one card in your uncontrolled
>> region).
>
>....which for a 10-cap Enkil Cog Anarch deck isn't a cost at all
No, as LSJ has told you, that's a cost. You may not think it's an
expensive cost, but it's a cost. See LSJ's post.
If you can't cope with the fact that LSJ knows the difference between a
cost and something costing just a transfer, pack up your cards and head
for the hills - the game designer doesn't know what he's talking about
when it comes to the cards he designed and their costs.
> as a
>deck centered around a 10-cap superstar doesn't influence out all 4 of
>it's initial vampires anyway.
A deck centered around a 10-cap superstar may not influence out all 4 of
it vampires, because several of them may be the same superstar.
However, it may want to pull a second big vampire to bring out alongside
them, by having (for example) 3-5 of two large vampires and some other
vampires (weenies, Anarch Converts, whatever else).
Having the choice of all four real vampires gives you better
probabilities of getting a choice of vampires. Finding yourself with,
for example, Fattie #1, Fattie #1, Anarch Convert, Anarch Convert
wouldn't be impossible in a deck that has several of each. So you pay a
pool and get to draw, for example, Supporting Midbie #2.
In the real world, that pool was a cost. Just like Chris said. Just
like I said. Just like LSJ said. You get the full selection of 4
vampires to choose from, thus giving you better odds of having a good
selection to choose from - but you pay a pool. Because the pool is a
cost. Like LSJ said.
Some decks will be just fine with that cost. Some decks won't. That's
what Chris pointed out, and you went into your own special place and
told him to READ THE CARD. He'd read the card - so had LSJ. Your
personal evaluation that all such decks would be fine with the cost does
not mean it is not a cost. Some decks spend a lot of pool, and would
rather not be spending any more.
librarian
... pop... pop... pop pop... pop. pop... pop pop pop ...
poppopPOPPOPOPOPOP... PopPOPPOPOPOPOPOP!!!!!
--
Super Fun Cards
www.superfuncards.com *NEW Website!*
auct...@superfuncards.com
Teeka
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
Ohhh! Can I have some too?
Morgan Vening
wrote:
>
>> As LSJ has told us, it costs either a pool or a crypt draw.
>>
>> The cost of using Anarch Convert is...
>>
>> ... if you choose to "gain 1 pool"
>> 1 transfer and 1 crypt draw (aka one card in your uncontrolled
>> region).
>
>....which for a 10-cap Enkil Cog Anarch deck isn't a cost at all as a
>deck centered around a 10-cap superstar doesn't influence out all 4 of
>it's initial vampires anyway.
Except even if you don't influence out all four, it can still be a
factor.
Take a deck with
4 Star
4 Weenie support
4 Anarch Convert,
In an average distribution, your crypt should have 1 of each, and a
33% chance of a second. Under your assertion, this is not a cost. So
in 1/3 of cases, you'll have a 'perfect crypt' 1 Star/2 Ween/1 AC.
And in 1/3 of cases you'll have 1 Star/1 Ween/2 AC, meaning the second
AC can fish.
But in 1/3 of cases, you'll have 2 Star/1 Ween/1 AC. Meaning you don't
get a 2nd Ween without fishing. Which means that it is now a 'cost' to
AC.
This doesn't take into account varied randomness of crypts (getting
all 4 stars, not getting any, etc). But if a deck has multiples of a
star, and wants more than 1 back up Weenie, the cost can be a factor.
Because the star isn't going to be influenced twice (unless you are
Peter Bakija), and so your initial pool is restricted, unless you
accept the cost.
Morgan Vening
Robert Scythe
This shit is fucking stupid. You people are way more drunk and/or
higher than I am, and that's saying something.
> Here's how it went:
Fuck that, I don't think you are objective enough to summarize this,
so I'll do it:
Dasein says some offhand comment (that has nothing to do with his
combo) "Getting a
skillcard is generally easier than becoming anarch."
Norm mentions the Anarch Convert. Which, if you put 3-4 in your crypt,
will be way better odds of drawing unless you put over 20 skill cards
in your deck. Not to mention that the vamp in question can just use
the default action to become an anarch since (as Dasein puts it) "She
has also OBF for stealthing stuff through"
Mr. Berger doesn't agree with Norm and cites the cost of the Convert
as opposed to the master card. What this has to do with the fact that
the odds are on your side for this vamp to become an anarch easier
than gaining a skill card I don't know. Norm then simplifies the
actual cost of the Convert, with off camera assumptions, incorrectly
(and is snarky about it). Chris and Norm sound off.
James gets his panties in a bunch over Norms spouting and rolls out
the facts (correctly). Norm doesn't care and tosses his poo at James.
James and Norm sound off. Meej says something significantly
insignificant. Norm spouts more poo.
LSJ clarifies the situation (about the cost) in a terse yet Matt Damon
way. James throws out an Affleck "How do you like me now?!!" and Norm
blissfully ignores that too. Chris Berger recaps whilst Chris Shorb
pops some corn. Why the fuck am I still awake.
Petaniqua cannot even do this combo without the skill card and doesn't
need to be anarch anyway!!
Sheesh, I'm gonna make another drink.
James Coupe
s.com>, Robert Scythe <rob...@exploretalent.com> writes:
>Norm mentions the Anarch Convert. Which, if you put 3-4 in your crypt,
>will be way better odds of drawing unless you put over 20 skill cards
>in your deck. Not to mention that the vamp in question can just use
>the default action to become an anarch since (as Dasein puts it) "She
>has also OBF for stealthing stuff through"
This one depends on quite what you're planning to do.
If the reason you're enabling a given trick is that it's the whole point
of your deck, the crypt-based Anarch Convert method will clearly be a
good option for you, probability-wise. However, developing library card
based methods can be a good trade off in some circumstances.
In a different, but analogous, avenue of the game, you can build a
political deck by using titles in the crypt. However, some politically-
oriented decks work just as well with transient vote push and title
gaining, rather than using the crypt resources to power the strategy in
the first place.
Blooded Sand
> ... pop... pop... pop pop... pop. pop... pop pop pop ...
> poppopPOPPOPOPOPOP... PopPOPPOPOPOPOPOP!!!!!
>
> --
> Super Fun Cardswww.superfuncards.com*NEW Website!*
I almost missed it. Thanks Meej. Who's got the butter, I brought some
beer.....
Pop........
Janne Hägglund
[SNIP impressive list by Norm]
> > I am sure I missed something....
>
> Nice work Norm! I particularly like this:
>
> > 10-cap anarch who uses Enkil Cog to turn his freshly recruited Cry
> > Wolf into an Abomination
Seconded. I planned to reply just to praise this, but you beat me to it.
[SNIP fun ideas]
> 10 cap Sabbat vampire (such as Laz or Caliean) gets Eternal Vigilance,
> then in my prey's turn untaps and either fails to block or plays
> Forced Vigilance / Minor Irritation / Majesty etc. Cailean would be
> awesome actually as he can block, set range to long, Majesty, then
> bleed during my predator's minion phase for lots (he has PRE + dom),
> grab the edge and tap Using the Advantage to gain 2 pool.
Just *one* Using the Advantage? You're thinking too small...
HG
afkek...@gmail.com
was looking for vamps that can act each turn,...
Well, i decided to let you in on my thoughts anyway :-)
1 Cock Robin aus for ANI OBF POT10 Nosferatu
Would be very cool with a combination of cards. retainers and ani-rush
seems the most logical to me
1 Eze aus ANI NEC POT PRE THA11 Guruhi
Pretty simple choice. He needs stealth though, to get things through.
1 Hannibal (ADV) cel dom AUS DEM OBF10 Malkavian
Antitribu
Either this version or the merged version should be fun to play. no
more than that i think, but still.
1 Lambach (ADV) pre ANI AUS DOM VIC10 Tzimisce
Actually, the merged version. Now he can make a LOT of babies. Needs
stealth as well.
1 Masika AUS CEL PRE 10 Toreador
Simple choice ofcourse. Just needs a sound idea of what he can do,...
1 William Thorbecke AUS DOM PRE PRO THA10 Tremere
inbuilt, but expensive, homunculus...
Enkidu. Even more raptor madness. and prefectionist works twice i
guess
Other stuff that i thought of combo-ing with:
Grandball (Animagathering-Masika)
aching beauty
Any 10 cap with for/pro can do good stuff with it. The best use is
probably that it is a way around NRA. so,..inbuilt-rushers need a lot
less "enter-combat" cards. voters can do 2 votes instead of 1.
Bleedzooka's can bleed twice per round,...
Other actions that you want to take more often?
Candidates other than above:
Arika for bleeds or votes
Stani/Etrius for bleeds
Eli (!) / Marthe with Shakar
Karsh/Wyn
Lucinde could be in combat twice. and you can make use of her other
special for once ;-)
Ayo Igoli for votes
Marie Anne Blaire for her special
especially for bluedevil:
Zayyat can his special twice in a round ;-)
Francois Villon can steal twice
the great beast can rush twice, if he gets a skillcard
All cards that go in play and grant a certain action that is useful:
eye of hazimel
talbots chainsaw
Templar/Archon/
Karavalanisha?
Cave of Apples?
spell of life?
Does superior Nocturn contradict the Enkil Cog in such a way that you
can put 2 in play in the others turn?
Kemintiri merged can call a Parity shift, followed by reckless
agitation for 10 pooldamage, gaining 11 in the process (assuming it
ousts) without votercap!
(untap via rutor or via SER-untpa card)
Any independant can do 2 reckless agitations per round. (they woul
dneed a way to get votes through and to untap: Nehsi. Jamal
Any other thoughts?
:-)
W
Frederick Scott
news:m37i6u8...@nothung.homelinux.net...
>> then in my prey's turn untaps and either fails to block or plays
>> Forced Vigilance / Minor Irritation / Majesty etc. Cailean would be
>> awesome actually as he can block, set range to long, Majesty, then
>> bleed during my predator's minion phase for lots (he has PRE + dom),
>> grab the edge and tap Using the Advantage to gain 2 pool.
>
> Just *one* Using the Advantage? You're thinking too small...
Yea, this was the thing that occurred to me, too: ways of breaking Enkil
Cog comboed with LOTS of Using the Advantage. Enkil Cog is the combo partner
UtA has been dreaming of for many years. (*weeps*)
Fred