Tourney Report - Australian Continental Championships and LCQs
nood...@iprimus.com.au
The Australian nats and LCQ were held last weekend.
Many thanks to Military Simulations, who extended amazing generosity
in regards to prize support, supplying about five times what White
Wolf supplied us. How a small national supplier is able to hand us ten
boxes free of charge while the international company that actually
produces the game can only afford to send us 2 boxes boggles the mind
somewhat, but i digress...
15 methuselahs resisted the lure of Crown Casino long enough to attend
the LCQ. Final standings were as follows:
GWs
Ivor Blockley 2 6.5 1.5 144
Stuart Jacques 1 5 1.5 120
Simon Reed 1 5 1 126
Steve Harris 2 8.5 0 174
Damien Hennessy 1 4 0 102
David Wimberley 1 3 108
Stewart Macleod 0 2 120
Ben Symkow 0 2 114
Steve McRoy 0 2 108
Jim Parker 0 2 90
Michael White 0 1.5 96
Merrick Hughes 0 1 90
Richard Auman 0 0.5 96
Michael Tomkins 0 0 66
Chris Cook 0 0 66
The Lasombra
>The Australian nats and LCQ were held last weekend.
That report was cut a little short...... Just the standings from the
one event. Hope more is coming......
sul...@aol.com
> The Australian nats and LCQ were held last weekend.
>
> the LCQ. Final standings were as follows:
> GWs
> Ivor Blockley 2 6.5 1.5 144
> Stuart Jacques 1 5 1.5 120
> Simon Reed 1 5 1 126
> Steve Harris 2 8.5 0 174
> Damien Hennessy 1 4 0 102
> David Wimberley 1 3 108
> Stewart Macleod 0 2 120
> Ben Symkow 0 2 114
> Steve McRoy 0 2 108
> Jim Parker 0 2 90
> Michael White 0 1.5 96
> Merrick Hughes 0 1 90
> Richard Auman 0 0.5 96
> Michael Tomkins 0 0 66
> Chris Cook 0 0 66
No:
Peter Rophail
Chris Arthur
Leon Tranter
Kevin Cameron
...
et al?
sutekh_23
The report may have been short, but I doubt that was the point of the
post, don't you?
Sutekh_23
nood...@iprimus.com.au
The Australian nats and LCQ were held last weekend in the
(surprisingly) sunny streets of Melbourne.
Many thanks to Military Simulations, who extended amazing generosity
in regards to prize support, supplying about five times what White
Wolf supplied us. How a small national supplier is able to hand us ten
boxes free of charge while the international company that actually
produces the game can only afford to send us 2 boxes boggles the mind
somewhat, but i digress...
15 methuselahs resisted the lure of Crown Casino long enough to attend
the LCQ. Final standings were as follows:
GWs VPs Final Vps Tourney
Points
Ivor Blockley 2 6.5 1.5 144
Stuart Jacques 1 5 1.5 120
Simon Reed 1 5 1 126
Steve Harris 2 8.5 0 174
Damien Hennessy 1 4 0 102
David Wimberley 1 3 108
Stewart Macleod 0 2 120
Ben Symkow 0 2 114
Steve McRoy 0 2 108
Jim Parker 0 2 90
Michael White 0 1.5 96
Merrick Hughes 0 1 90
Richard Auman 0 0.5 96
Michael Tomkins 0 0 66
Chris Cook 0 0 66
Ivor: Saulot/weenie AUS Spirit Marionette/Wall.
Stu: Malk S/B
Simon: Cannot recall at all what he played. :P
Steve: Gio Shamblers
Damien: OBF ventrue vote/bleed
Unfortunately I was getting smashed in Duffin Draft for most of the
final except for the occasional rules call, so won't be able to write
a full account of Ivor's victory. :)
The Australian National Championship was held the following day,
attended by 22 methuselahs. For some reason my copy of Archon won't
compile the finals results into the spreadsheet, so standing before
the finals were:
Name Prelim GWs Prelim VPs TPs
Jason Ryan 3 10 180
Richard Aumann 2 8 138
Steve McRoy 2 8 138
Nick Miller 1 7 138
Simon Reed 1 4.5 132
Stewart Macleod 1 3 112
Eugene Chan 1 2 118
Steve VanNus 0 4.5 168
Steve Harris 0 2 118
Michael Tomkins 0 2 102
Julian Gatt 0 1.5 112
Jim Parker 0 1.5 102
Ben Symkow 0 1 104
Stuart Jacques 0 1 96
Claudio Gomes 0 1 94
Merrick Hughes 0 1 94
Damien Hennessey 0 1 94
Tony Wedd 0 1 82
David Wimberley 0 0.5 76
Chris Cook 0 0 72
Ivor Blockley 0 0 58
Craig Love 0 0 48
Decks:
Rich: Ahrimanes block/bleed
Steve: Turbo Cybele/Great Beast
Nick: OBF Prince Vote
Simon: Assamite breed/bleed/vote
Me: Imbued Pokemon Solitaire
Seating: Ahrimanes -> Cybele -> Assamites -> Imbued -> Princes
The final was a relatively brutal affair at first. Everyone had seen
Cybele sweep two tables over the day, it's first sweep being completed
in a little under 40 minutes. Everyone was scared of it, and wanted it
dead.
The ahrimanes began by pulling up three pre weenies in first turn.
They began chipping at Cybele. By the time Steve got Cybele out, he
was on very low pool. Cybele grabbed the soul gem and attempted to
untap with ToaTL. A short discussion began, where I arranged 4 turns
of complete amnesty from Simon in exchange for a Direct intervention
on the ToaTL. Simon agreed. DI was played. Cybele remained tapped and
was bled out the next turn. A pretty sucky result for Steve, but the
deck was too scary to be allowed to live.
My Imbued got utterly tooled up over the next four turns, but I did
forget to tap the Church of Vindicated Faith one turn, which would
bite me badly in the end.By the end of the amnesty, the Princes had
chipped at the Ahrimane's pool and kept themselves alive through
Parity Shifts. The assamites had lost their 7 cap voter due to my
Recalled to Founder, but still had a swarm of weenies. However I had
Aranthebes in play, so wasn't too threatened. My Laptop/Leather Jacket/
Vigilance bleed combo had the princes within striking range. I was
tooled up, and looking scary.
The princes and Ahrimanes attempted to reshuffle Aranthebes. I
blocked, because I simply couldn't afford to lose him with so many web
of knives/assamite weenies on my back. It got to Simon's turn, he
played a Reckless Agitation, which I DI'ed. He played another. Nick's
Princes voted in favour, despite my offer of two VP. Nick wanted me
gone, even though he stood no chance against the assamites either.
Let's be honest, if you're going to kingmake, Assamites are far more
likable than Imbued :)
Simon then played 3 losses in a row (two of which I blocked/
championed) but the third one got me, thanks to the pool I'd paid for
the DI. To be honest, I didn't expect him to have 2 RA's and 3 losses
in his hand. That's pretty golden.
After that, it was simple maths. The Princes managed to get over the
Ahrimanes, who displayed a surprising lack of intercept all finals.
The assamite swarm then consumed the prince's pool through Losses and
Alamut backed Reckless Agitations.
Final standings:
Assamite breed/bleed/vote 3vp
Ahrimanes block/bleed 1vp
OBF Prince Vote 1vp
Imbued Pokemon Solitaire 0vp
Turbo Cybele/Great Beast 0vp
A dark day for Australian VTEs, when a New Zealander takes our revered
trophy! There will be Blood!
But grats to Simon, winning with a very interesting deck in what
appeared at the beginning to be the worst seat on the table. Thanks to
everyone who attended, and again thanks to Mils Sims for their
fantastic prize support.
If Ivor and Simon can post their winning decks for the Lasombra
archives, that'd be great.
See you next year.
nood...@iprimus.com.au
> No:
> Peter Rophail
> Chris Arthur
> Leon Tranter
> Kevin Cameron
> ...
> et al?
Nope. Kevin is a WoW tragic now, and the other guys couldn't make it
down from their respective cities. :P
Dasein
> was on very low pool. Cybele grabbed the soul gem and attempted to
> untap with ToaTL. A short discussion began, where I arranged 4 turns
> of complete amnesty from Simon in exchange for a Direct intervention
> on the ToaTL. Simon agreed. DI was played. Cybele remained tapped and
> was bled out the next turn. A pretty sucky result for Steve, but the
> deck was too scary to be allowed to live.
I’m really, really tempted here to go dig up and paste Fred Scott’s
bizarre quote from the DI thread along the lines of “I never really
see DI make a big impact on a game. You know, people play cards,
sometimes they get DI’ed, so what, it’s not a big deal, I never really
see it change the result of a game”. But I’m sure he’d have a
wonderfully disarming response to conjure up and explain why he’s
still right, so I won’t bother.
Sounds like an interesting final! So Imbued still get the mega table
hate, even without memories and EE…
I’m coming to more and more believe that Reckless is one of the
strongest action cards around at the moment. Interesting indeed that a
Reckless deck beat a parity shift deck, but that may have had more to
do with table positions and dealing than anything else (not to take
away anything from Simon’s victory, congrats dude).
J
> > They began chipping at Cybele. By the time Steve got Cybele out, he
> > was on very low pool. Cybele grabbed the soul gem and attempted to
> > untap with ToaTL. A short discussion began, where I arranged 4 turns
> > of complete amnesty from Simon in exchange for a Direct intervention
> > on the ToaTL. Simon agreed. DI was played. Cybele remained tapped and
> > was bled out the next turn. A pretty sucky result for Steve, but the
> > deck was too scary to be allowed to live.
>
> I’m really, really tempted here to go dig up and paste Fred Scott’s
> bizarre quote from the DI thread along the lines of “I never really
> see DI make a big impact on a game. You know, people play cards,
> sometimes they get DI’ed, so what, it’s not a big deal, I never really
> see it change the result of a game”. But I’m sure he’d have a
> wonderfully disarming response to conjure up and explain why he’s
> still right, so I won’t bother.
Well, I was playing a social deck on the day... I'm of the opinion
that my days actually playing in tournaments if fast coming to an end,
so I couldn't be arsed. However, DI like ANY card can have an effect
on a game. Steve's deck relied upon a gimmick, and because it relied
upon a gimmick it could be shut down by DI. In one game where I
played with Steve, he had both Soul Gem equip actions blocked and his
deck died. Maybe we should ban blocking, because it had a big effect
on the game.
--> J
grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/grail_j
Dasein
> that my days actually playing in tournaments if fast coming to an end,
> so I couldn't be arsed. However, DI like ANY card can have an effect
> on a game. Steve's deck relied upon a gimmick, and because it relied
> upon a gimmick it could be shut down by DI. In one game where I
> played with Steve, he had both Soul Gem equip actions blocked and his
> deck died. Maybe we should ban blocking, because it had a big effect
> on the game.
Don’t be ridiculous. They’re not remotely the same thing. I shouldn’t
need to explain why, especially to someone with as much experience in
the game as you Julian. Anyway let’s not turn this into another boring
DI thread. I shouldn’t have said anything.
J retiring from tournament VTES?? That would be a sad loss to the
Australian scene. A changing of the guard perhaps! Are you grooming a
new generation of aggressive Newie players? :)
J
> need to explain why, especially to someone with as much experience in
> the game as you Julian. Anyway let’s not turn this into another boring
> DI thread. I shouldn’t have said anything.
> J retiring from tournament VTES?? That would be a sad loss to the
> Australian scene. A changing of the guard perhaps! Are you grooming a
> new generation of aggressive Newie players? :)
They are definitely the same thing. If Steve had built his deck to
not be a gimmick, then DI wouldn't have killed him. If he hadn't
built it to be a gimmick, having a block of a Soul Gem wouldn't have
killed him. The problem that Steve faced isn't that his opponents
could block him or DI him, but that his deck had such significant
flaws. It was an all or nothing deck, but that's how Steve builds his
decks and it's how he plays. Had he been blocked performing an
action, he couldn't have played Truth anyway and would have
subsequently died regardless, so yes - it is the same, because block/
DI would have meant the same thing to him.
As to me retiring, it's likely that I will continue to play maybe 1 or
2 a year, but that'll probably be it. As to more Newie players,
nope. The Newie breed is dying. Soon, it may well be extinguished.
It was a real shame that more players from Sydney couldn't make it
down. For the biggest playgroup in the land, they don't travel well.
The organization and running of the event was very good, and the prize
support was the best I've seen bar none.... (and that includes the
lone time I managed to make it to the EC). The weekend and the
organizers deserved more of a turnout than they had. That was the
dark day for Australian VTES IMO, not the fact that a sheep shaggin'
kiwi won the title.
Dasein
> not be a gimmick, then DI wouldn't have killed him. If he hadn't
> built it to be a gimmick, having a block of a Soul Gem wouldn't have
> killed him. The problem that Steve faced isn't that his opponents
> could block him or DI him, but that his deck had such significant
> flaws. It was an all or nothing deck, but that's how Steve builds his
> decks and it's how he plays. Had he been blocked performing an
> action, he couldn't have played Truth anyway and would have
> subsequently died regardless, so yes - it is the same, because block/
> DI would have meant the same thing to him.
This is largely specious reasoning, but dude, if you go back and
actually read my posts, I have *nowhere* claimed that I think DI
should be banned. For what it’s worth, I actually don’t believe it
should be banned, not that anyone asked me. It’s interesting how
quickly some people invent shadows to box with. But this is even more
reason not to continue down this road. Let’s leave it, seriously.
> As to me retiring, it's likely that I will continue to play maybe 1 or
> 2 a year, but that'll probably be it. As to more Newie players,
> nope. The Newie breed is dying. Soon, it may well be extinguished.
>
> It was a real shame that more players from Sydney couldn't make it
> down. For the biggest playgroup in the land, they don't travel well.
> The organization and running of the event was very good, and the prize
> support was the best I've seen bar none.... (and that includes the
> lone time I managed to make it to the EC). The weekend and the
> organizers deserved more of a turnout than they had. That was the
> dark day for Australian VTES IMO, not the fact that a sheep shaggin'
> kiwi won the title.
Sorry but various factors conspired to my not being able to make it
down this year. I would have liked to go but simply could not.
Hopefully I can make it next year. I’m very glad to see Chippendale
represented in the final.
Your presence will be missed.
nood...@iprimus.com.au
> It was a real shame that more players from Sydney couldn't make it
> down. For the biggest playgroup in the land, they don't travel well.
> The organization and running of the event was very good, and the prize
> support was the best I've seen bar none.... (and that includes the
> lone time I managed to make it to the EC). The weekend and the
> organizers deserved more of a turnout than they had. That was the
> dark day for Australian VTES IMO, not the fact that a sheep shaggin'
> kiwi won the title.
It was a bit of a shame that more players couldn't make it down, yeah,
but Sydney is always going to be a more populous location, just
because it's more central. Plus, they have the biggest playgroup. I'll
be recommending to noel that they hold the next nats in Sydney next
year, if the guys want to run it.it's just easier for folks to get to,
and the Sydney playgroup indeed don't travel very well at all.
But yeah, the prize support was great, due largely to the generosity
of Mil Sims. So to all Australian VTES players - support the suppliers
that are supporting your game!
nood...@iprimus.com.au
> Sounds like an interesting final! So Imbued still get the mega table
> hate, even without memories and EE…
I got table hate partly because I had 4 turns to set up, completely
unmolested, and had an army at the end of it. I was definitely the
scariest person on the table at that point. It was down to me or Simon
basically. The other dudes had no chance of winning, they could only
decide whether it was myself or Simon who won. And as i say, Assamites
are the underdogs and people feel better about kingmaking for them.
That's all good, i would have done the same thing. Simon's deck has
style. My imbued deck is utter cheese, and I'm the first to admit it.
All that said, Imbued are simply too strong imo. I was top seed going
into the final, and never felt threatened all day. It was never edge
explosion or MoM that made imbued strong, it's their core mechanic or
recycling assets, the ability to get powers multiple times in a turn
( There were several turns across the day where i dropped 5 or 6
powers in a single turn), the fact that their defenses are so
extraordinarily versatile and the fact that they hose certain strats
totally simply by being allies.
IMO NoR is a poorly thought out set, and the designers' unwillingness
to acknowledge that it is poorly designed mechanics, not single OP
cards, that make Imbued too strong, and their refusal to reprint
certain cards with reworded text to include allies (i ousted one of my
preys because the wording of Redirection says "vampire" not "minion",
and my next prey was virtually helpless due to him relying upon
Obedience for his defense strat) means we'll continue to see them
being hated and feared on any table with intelligent players.
J
> actually read my posts, I have *nowhere* claimed that I think DI
> should be banned. For what it’s worth, I actually don’t believe it
> should be banned, not that anyone asked me. It’s interesting how
> quickly some people invent shadows to box with. But this is even more
> reason not to continue down this road. Let’s leave it, seriously.
Never said that you said it should be banned. And I'm not creating
any shadows to box with. Steve's deck was vulnerable to plenty of
things, not just DI. Pentex kills him even easier than a single DI.
So it's not specious reasoning at all. His deck was the problem, not
the DI.
Anyway, it's moot.
J
> > Sounds like an interesting final! So Imbued still get the mega table
> > hate, even without memories and EE…
>
> I got table hate partly because I had 4 turns to set up, completely
> unmolested, and had an army at the end of it.
And is a known Cheese Merchant.
Huruem
Simon? Is that the frigging Simon from New zealand? Brilliant !
Congratulation man !
Arthur
nood...@iprimus.com.au
> And is a known Cheese Merchant.
lol
That imbued deck is the cheesiest thing I own. It's awful and horribly
OP in my opinion. But I played it to try and prove a point - that the
banning of EE and MoM was just retarded, that Imbued are still
horribly off the power curve, and that only by addressing mechanics,
not individual cards will they be brought into line.
Shade
> The Australian National Championship was held the following day,
> attended by 22 methuselahs. For some reason my copy of Archon won't
> compile the finals results into the spreadsheet, so standing before
> the finals were:
> Decks:
>
> Rich: Ahrimanes block/bleed
> Steve: Turbo Cybele/Great Beast
> Nick: OBF Prince Vote
> Simon: Assamite breed/bleed/vote
> Me: Imbued Pokemon Solitaire
>
> Seating: Ahrimanes -> Cybele -> Assamites -> Imbued -> Princes
>
> Let's be honest, if you're going to kingmake, Assamites are far more
> likable than Imbued :)
Yeah I guess sums up the final. Nick and Rich were basically at the
point where there were two trains coming at them and they essientially
picked which one ran over them. That was after one train got
sabotaged at the start line by the rest of us, which I guess is what
happens with that kind of deck. I didn't really think I was going to
win, or really deserved to win for that matter, but somehow I ended up
first. On the other hand there have been hundreds of games I've
deserved to win but somehow haven't so I'll take a little luck :-)
> A dark day for Australian VTEs, when a New Zealander takes our revered
> trophy! There will be Blood!
I think someone declared me an honourary Australian for the day which
I will take it in the spirit it was intended as opposed to the mortal
insult it would normally be ;-) Also, as I look at the NZ vs
Bangladesh test match, I may wish to be Australian for a couple of
weeks shortly...
> But grats to Simon, winning with a very interesting deck in what
> appeared at the beginning to be the worst seat on the table. Thanks to
> everyone who attended, and again thanks to Mils Sims for their
> fantastic prize support.
Mils Sims are legends and Melbourne has the best prize support ever -
almost a box of boosters each over the two days just for turning up!!!
> If Ivor and Simon can post their winning decks for the Lasombra
> archives, that'd be great.
Deck: Assamite Bleed / Vote
Description: Uses the Alamut as the key card vote defense and
occasional vote calling, mainlys bleeds and bloats with Haqims LAw:
Leadership. Based on a deck I saw at the Welsh ECQ a couple of years
ago, by Oortji I think, updated with the mighty new cards.
Crypt (12)
Amaravati x 3
Vardar x 2
Hafsa
Kamau x 2 (he is my hero)
Sajid
Alu x 2
Basir
Library (74)
Masters (20)
Alamut x 4
Blood Doll x 2
Vessel x 3
Dreams of the Sphinx x 2
Archon Investigation x 2
Underworld Hunting Ground
Black Throne
Yoruba Shrine
Giants Blood
DI
Pentex Subversion
Effective Management (not sure why this is here)
Actions (21)
Haqims Law: Leadership x 7
Loss x 9
Web of Knives x 3
Khabar Glory x 2 (not sure why these are here either)
Political Actions (8)
Reckless Agitation x 4
Con Boon x 4
Action Modifiers (20)
Lost in Crowds x 4
Cloak the Gathering x 4
Faceless Night x 3
Spying Mission x 4
Veil the Legions x 3
Elder Impersonation x 2
Combo (4)
Swallowed by the Night x 4
Events (1)
Narrow Minds
There was meant to be a Taste of Death to discard but I'm not sure
what happened to it.
> See you next year.
Surely will - fiance already said I can come back, what a perfect
woman :-)
A good weekend and thanks to Jason on Saturday and Piers on Sunday for
judging. I had good games all weekend, a couple of great games,
losing in a close one to Steve H and battling Steve V to a standstill
in the second day.
I think the weekend can be summed up by Merrick who in the space of
about an hour; went out a bought a crate to sell cheap to everyone,
then in his next game backstabbed Tony horribly and ousted him, but
then gave him a free beer to make up for it! Good games, a few pretty
brutal ones at times, but a great bunch of guys to play cards with and
a lot of fun overall.
Cheers
Simon
Shade
I’m coming to more and more believe that Reckless is one of the
> strongest action cards around at the moment. Interesting indeed that a
> Reckless deck beat a parity shift deck, but that may have had more to
> do with table positions and dealing than anything else (not to take
> away anything from Simon’s victory, congrats dude).
100% to do with table position in the final for sure - I'm inclined to
still think Parity Shift is better myself but there we are. In the
other game that I ousted Nick (harsh but I think he should have back
ousted me that game when he half a chance to double parity shift me) I
got out the Alamut early and shut him down. In saying that, he could
add a disputed territory to that deck or an arson as without that I'm
easy meat.
Shade
> Simon? Is that the frigging Simon from New zealand? Brilliant !
> Congratulation man !
Thanks man - I'm as surprised as you :-)
Shade
> They are definitely the same thing. If Steve had built his deck to
> not be a gimmick, then DI wouldn't have killed him. If he hadn't
> built it to be a gimmick, having a block of a Soul Gem wouldn't have
> killed him. The problem that Steve faced isn't that his opponents
> could block him or DI him, but that his deck had such significant
> flaws. It was an all or nothing deck, but that's how Steve builds his
> decks and it's how he plays. Had he been blocked performing an
> action, he couldn't have played Truth anyway and would have
> subsequently died regardless, so yes - it is the same, because block/
> DI would have meant the same thing to him.
Yep that's Steve all right and indeed the deck has a bunch of
problems. The DI didn't really kill him although it didn't help, the
Reckless that went backwards for 5 and having a bunch of pre weenies
coming killed him. Even if he had got the Beast out unless he somehow
stayed alive a round he wouldn't have had the pool to untap or survive
to his next turn.
> As to me retiring, it's likely that I will continue to play maybe 1 or
> 2 a year, but that'll probably be it. As to more Newie players,
> nope. The Newie breed is dying. Soon, it may well be extinguished.
Shame man - two big tournaments and we haven't even sat on the same
table! Come over and do some fishing in Wellington next year :-)
Simon
Emiliano Imeroni
Congratulations Simon!
And... yes, this deck may share some similarities with the deck Jeroen
van Oort brought to that Welsh ECQ, but above all it is *identical*
(well, ok, a few changes in the masters section: -1 Dreams, +1 DI, +2
AI, +1 Pentex, +1 Effective M.,- and a slightly different crypt) to
the deck I used in a couple of tournaments in Brussels and Swansea ;-)
http://tinyurl.com/6o2nbj
(based in turn on a deck by John Eno).
I am glad someone finally takes this deck to its deserved spot in the
"light"! :-) In particular after I collected *zero* VPs with it on day
1 of the EC this year :-(
Ciao,
Emiliano
James Coupe
com>, nood...@iprimus.com.au writes:
>That imbued deck is the cheesiest thing I own. It's awful and horribly
>OP in my opinion. But I played it to try and prove a point - that the
>banning of EE and MoM was just retarded, that Imbued are still
>horribly off the power curve, and that only by addressing mechanics,
>not individual cards will they be brought into line.
Genuine question:
If they're still so good, why do you think they aren't they still
turning up so often in the TWDA?
Scrolling back in the TWDA right now (prior to this addition), the first
one I find is June 2008, with 50+ decks since.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
xcver
> In message <f2330804-46dd-4569-bb0c-1377fbc1b...@1g2000prd.googlegroups.
>
> com>, noodle...@iprimus.com.au writes:
> >That imbued deck is the cheesiest thing I own. It's awful and horribly
> >OP in my opinion. But I played it to try and prove a point - that the
> >banning of EE and MoM was just retarded, that Imbued are still
> >horribly off the power curve, and that only by addressing mechanics,
> >not individual cards will they be brought into line.
>
> Genuine question:
>
> If they're still so good, why do you think they aren't they still
> turning up so often in the TWDA?
>
> Scrolling back in the TWDA right now (prior to this addition), the first
> one I find is June 2008, with 50+ decks since.
>
Because people feel ashamed playing them!!! Most playgroups (I know)
react with intense table-hate against any imbued deck that turns up
resulting in no one playing it. And why should they suddenly dust one
out for a tournament.
I totally second that bad emotion about the imbued and especially that
no one from ww or the ww-yay-sayers seem to accept that lots of lots
of players feel bad about the imbued and NoR in general and that is a
fact which cannot be proven or disproven by a TWDA. Imbued are also
not that strong on rgtcjdeckarchive (unless you also consider decks
with just 1 imbued in it, than it's about 1.5 a month out of 60 decks
per month there).
James Coupe
.com>, xcver <bernd....@firstdata.de> writes:
>On 21 Okt., 11:13, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
>> Genuine question:
>>
>> If they're still so good, why do you think they aren't they still
>> turning up so often in the TWDA?
>>
>> Scrolling back in the TWDA right now (prior to this addition), the first
>> one I find is June 2008, with 50+ decks since.
>>
>
>Because people feel ashamed playing them!!! Most playgroups (I know)
>react with intense table-hate against any imbued deck that turns up
>resulting in no one playing it. And why should they suddenly dust one
>out for a tournament.
I don't follow this.
- They were more sleazy before (because they had more powerful cards),
but people played them a lot, and won a lot of tournaments. They've
become *less* sleazy, so people are playing them, erm, less?
- As is evidenced by many discussions, a lot of players want to win, and
care relatively little for playing an exciting deck trying out lots of
new things (that might or might not work).
- Players are just fine with playing other sleazy decks. In the time
since that Imbued deck, I can find several decks making significant
use of Kindred Spirits. I can find weenie presence playing something
like *48* presence actions and *20* Staredown, and a similar deck
playing 34 presence actions, 16 Presence combat cards, and 6 Change of
Target. I can find Lasombra Obt/Dom stealth-bleed. I can find Palla
Grande Breed Boon. These are all well-known sleaze. Players play
them. Players have always played such decks. Players aren't stopped
from playing them because they're sleaze.
I can't follow an argument that says that, after bans making them harder
to use, players suddenly say "Urgh, sleazy" and stop playing them, but
carry on with so much other sleaze.
Meej
> In message <f2330804-46dd-4569-bb0c-1377fbc1b...@1g2000prd.googlegroups.
>
> >That imbued deck is the cheesiest thing I own. It's awful and horribly
> >OP in my opinion. But I played it to try and prove a point - that the
> >banning of EE and MoM was just retarded, that Imbued are still
> >horribly off the power curve, and that only by addressing mechanics,
> >not individual cards will they be brought into line.
>
> Genuine question:
>
> If they're still so good, why do you think they aren't they still
> turning up so often in the TWDA?
>
> Scrolling back in the TWDA right now (prior to this addition), the first
> one I find is June 2008, with 50+ decks since.
Because folks in most play groups have figured out how to muster up 2
intercept occasionally.
- D.J.
Janne Hägglund
Even one intercept can be enough, if it can be generated consistently.
It allows one to block the Imbued pseudostealth bleeds, their main ousting
method. And it also stops the madness of "I play every power card that
happens to be in my hand, then I draw new powers and aquire them too."
(Sure, they can stealth their power cards through with Second Sight, but they
have to burn them to do it. And after the banning of Edge Explosion,
conviction has become a precious resource.)
HG
Thrall of Arika
Sounds like an interesting game. One question though, your final
statement says that the Assamites won by Loss/Reckless Agitation. Was
this a generalization for throughout the game? Reckless Agitation
cannot be played when it's down to two Methuselahs.
Chris, Thrall of Arika
The Lasombra
>The Australian National Championship was held the following day,
>attended by 22 methuselahs. For some reason my copy of Archon won't
>compile the finals results into the spreadsheet, so standing before
>the finals were:
(Look for ties in on the Methsulah's tab, and resolve them. This will
usually fix the results tab.)
>Name Prelim GWs Prelim VPs TPs
>Jason Ryan 3 10 180
Would certainly be interested in seeing this deck!
http://vtes-hunter-net.tripod.com/
librarian
>> They began chipping at Cybele. By the time Steve got Cybele out, he
>> was on very low pool. Cybele grabbed the soul gem and attempted to
>> untap with ToaTL. A short discussion began, where I arranged 4 turns
>> of complete amnesty from Simon in exchange for a Direct intervention
>> on the ToaTL. Simon agreed. DI was played. Cybele remained tapped and
>> was bled out the next turn. A pretty sucky result for Steve, but the
>> deck was too scary to be allowed to live.
>
> I’m really, really tempted here to go dig up and paste Fred Scott’s
> bizarre quote from the DI thread along the lines of “I never really
> see DI make a big impact on a game. You know, people play cards,
> sometimes they get DI’ed, so what, it’s not a big deal, I never really
> see it change the result of a game”. But I’m sure he’d have a
> wonderfully disarming response to conjure up and explain why he’s
> still right, so I won’t bother.
>
In fairness to Fred, two paragraph's later noodleboy says:
"It got to Simon's turn, he
played a Reckless Agitation, which I DI'ed. He played another."
Simon won.
best -
chris
--
Super Fun Cards
www.superfuncards.com *NEW Website!*
auct...@superfuncards.com
Shade
wrote:
> (based in turn on a deck by John Eno).
Yep Jeroen thanks - I was searching for his name and couldn't
remember :-(
As yes of course! I saw your deck of on the UK forum and changed mine
to be similar - sorry for the exclusion!!!
From memory I removed all combat cards bar one Taste of Death (which I
appear to have lost anyway) and I dropped a couple of extra masters to
keep the ratios similar. I also added the veils which I'm not sure
how I forgot to include in the original build, blonde moment
apparently. I don't how you can't play with Archons because they are
just essential I find when someone is power bleeding you, the DI could
be a sudden as I hardly used it all day.
> I am glad someone finally takes this deck to its deserved spot in the
> "light"! :-) In particular after I collected *zero* VPs with it on day
> 1 of the EC this year :-(
Dude zero that's rough! But it is a cool deck and it's at least fun
to play even when you lose.
Simon
Shade
wrote:
> Sounds like an interesting game. One question though, your final
> statement says that the Assamites won by Loss/Reckless Agitation. Was
> this a generalization for throughout the game? Reckless Agitation
> cannot be played when it's down to two Methuselahs.
Four in the game at that time, that's just a generalisation. Also a
generous description I think, I would describe it as more of a stealth
bleed deck with a splash of vote.
S
J
> to use, players suddenly say "Urgh, sleazy" and stop playing them, but
> carry on with so much other sleaze.
Stigma.
Lots of people developed early hate of Imbued because they didn't
understand their rules. That hate has festered.
The End.
chr...@comcen.com.au
> and the Sydney playgroup indeed don't travel very well at all.
>
Sydney players travel just as well as players from other groups. This
year there were four Sydney players in the LCQ and the Nats. There
weren't more than 4-5 from any particular group at last years Nats
(held in Sydney).
The disappointment this year is the turnout of the locals. At last
years Nats we had between 18-20 Sydney locals turn up to the LCQ and
Nats. This year's local Melbourne turnout was pretty poor. From my
count there were 7 at the LCQ and 8 at the Nats. What's happened to
the Melbourne scene? Last year's Melbourne qualifier had a much higher
turnout than this year's Championships. Melbourne was awarded the
Championships on the basis of that strong turnout last year.
I think it would make sense to have the tournament in Sydney again
next year. The Sydney scene is relatively strong. The Kiwis might want
it though considering they won the tournament. :)
Chris.
chr...@comcen.com.au
>
> It was a real shame that more players from Sydney couldn't make it
> down. For the biggest playgroup in the land, they don't travel well.
That's a bit of a surprise considering we made up the bulk of the
players at your qualifier this year in Newcastle.
Chris.
J
I mean travel interstate.
Newcastle - Sydney - Canberra, the Sydney-siders travel very well, coz
it's just a couple of hours in a car. When the nats were in Brissie,
there weren't a whole lot of guys from Sydney playing up there
either. From memory there was David, Nick, Claudio, Paul...... that's
all I can remember.
As to the location of the Nats next year, I'm sure that we will start
discussing it shortly on the Prince list. Infact, I might even bring
it up right now.
Shade
> I think it would make sense to have the tournament in Sydney again
> next year. The Sydney scene is relatively strong. The Kiwis might want
> it though considering they won the tournament. :)
Let's not go suggesting New Zealand is part of Australia again Chris,
I'm sure the Australian Championships need to be held in Australia :-)
James Coupe
s.com>, J <gra...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> I can't follow an argument that says that, after bans making them harder
>> to use, players suddenly say "Urgh, sleazy" and stop playing them, but
>> carry on with so much other sleaze.
>
>Stigma.
>Lots of people developed early hate of Imbued because they didn't
>understand their rules. That hate has festered.
>The End.
But people hated them *extremely vociferously* while they were winning
tournaments regularly, with regular calls for massive changes, up to and
including the whole set being banned. The regularity of such calls has
lessened rather a lot. (Note: I know they're not non-existent. But
compare now with pre-ban complaints.)
So apparently people hate them now *even more* than before, but are so
much quieter about it? When in the rest of the history of V:TES has
intense, festering hatred resulted in less whining? When cards are
broken and demonstrably power-plays with solid tournament track recrods
(e.g. Return to Innocence), what other times have seen players shy away
from them?
Note that problems with hatred and stigma and desire for change
surrounded Return to Innocence. Yet people called for change, discussed
it, won tournaments with alarming regularity with it...
J
> tournaments regularly, with regular calls for massive changes, up to and
> including the whole set being banned. The regularity of such calls has
> lessened rather a lot. (Note: I know they're not non-existent. But
> compare now with pre-ban complaints.)
I think that the number of players playing them has just lessened.
The hate for them still exists, but players just aren't playing them
because MoM and Edge Explosion did neuter them somewhat regardless of
what Jason thinks. MoM + the ability to bleed for 2+ with every
action was just hideous. Now that extra level of cheese has been
removed there's less people using them, it's just that simple. One of
the problems with the tournament scene is that people play decks that
they think will win, not because they enjoy playing the game, but
because they enjoy winning - as if it validates them. Now it's just a
little bit harder to do that with Imbued, so these people can't get
that validation.
Oooh, controversial there...! :P
But scandal aside, it just comes down to the regularity of the play.
This doesn't lessen the hate.
> So apparently people hate them now *even more* than before, but are so
> much quieter about it?
I don't see this. Just that there's less reason to vehemently oppose
something that isn't seen as often.
librarian
Perth. Just because.
Oortje
> > > If Ivor and Simon can post their winning decks for the Lasombra
> > > archives, that'd be great.
> >
> > Deck: Assamite Bleed / Vote
> > Description: Uses the Alamut as the key card vote defense and
> > occasional vote calling, mainlys bleeds and bloats with Haqims LAw:
> > Leadership. �Based on a deck I saw at the Welsh ECQ a couple of years
> > ago, by Oortji I think, updated with the mighty new cards.
> >
SNIP
> Congratulations Simon!
>
> And... yes, this deck may share some similarities with the deck Jeroen
> van Oort brought to that Welsh ECQ, but above all it is *identical*
> (well, ok, a few changes in the masters section: -1 Dreams, +1 DI, +2
> AI, +1 Pentex, +1 Effective M.,- and a slightly different crypt) to
> the deck I used in a couple of tournaments in Brussels and Swansea ;-)
> http://tinyurl.com/6o2nbj
> (based in turn on a deck by John Eno).
>
> I am glad someone finally takes this deck to its deserved spot in the
> "light"! :-) In particular after I collected *zero* VPs with it on day
> 1 of the EC this year :-(
>
> Ciao,
> Emiliano
SNIP
Congratulation Simon!
Thanks for mentioning me in your deck list. Pretty strange you tried
that concept though. That day in wales I only made 1.5 VP's. The
concept itself is a lot older then 2003, as I got my inspiration from
that from another guy who played something like that. Who himself
probebly got that inspiration from some other guy who played something
like that. who..etc.....etc......etc.................. from some guy
who played malkavian stealth bleed.
Anyway good luck on your next games.
Oortje
coincoi...@hotmail.com
> Name Prelim GWs Prelim VPs TPs
> Jason Ryan 3 10 180
> Steve McRoy 2 8 138
> The final was a relatively brutal affair at first. Everyone had seen
> Cybele sweep two tables over the day, it's first sweep being completed
> in a little under 40 minutes. Everyone was scared of it, and wanted it
> dead.
I don't get it. I am more afraid by a deck who has made 3 GW than by a
deck who swept two tables of 4 players...
congrats to all finalists
TTC
simcof
The reason being is that the Cybelle deck gets ousts very very quicky
indeed good sir.
simcof
J
> indeed good sir.
That, and because once Cybelle gets the Soul Gem, there's not a real
lot that can be done.