Some EC trivia
Amenophobis
share some information:
Country with the highest number of EC events run: Austria (3)
Country with the hightest number of European Champions: Austria (3)
EC Champions who won more than one EC: 1 (Martin Weinmayer, Austria,
2x)
And still, Martin Weinmayer is not invited to the Legendary Vampire
event. This may as well have to do with the broken ranking system, but
I could be wrong. ;)
Stone
"Amenophobis" <preac...@gmx.at> a �crit dans le message de
news:84c089c0-0d28-467f...@t13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
well, even though the rating calculation and/or ranking may not be right for
weird reasons, the list of events a given player attended is usually much
more accurate. So when you look at his page, it looks like he was in torpor
in 2007 and 2008, and like many guys who get out of torpor, he's back in
very good shape and justs storms the 2009 EC.
But still, in the last 18 months, it looks like he attended only 5
tournaments. So actually, he shouldn't have any ranking at all if the list
is correct, since you need 8 tournaments in IIRC.
So, from that point of view, it explains why he isn't invited to the LV -
but then, the LV is for 25 people only and of course, there are much, much
more than 25 very good players around. Some of the current 25 in the LV just
suck when compared to other players who aren't in the 25, I know since I'm
in...but I digress.
Stone
Amenophobis
> "Amenophobis" <preache...@gmx.at> a écrit dans le message denews:84c089c0-0d28-467f...@t13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
The few nubers of tournaments could be the cause, right. :)
But, but, but - if what you say about players being in that suck
compared to others not in is true, isn't this some kind of evidence
that the ranking system sucks? ;)
Stone
> > So, from that point of view, it explains why he isn't invited to the
LV -
> > but then, the LV is for 25 people only and of course, there are much,
much
> > more than 25 very good players around. Some of the current 25 in the LV
just
> > suck when compared to other players who aren't in the 25, I know since
I'm
> > in...but I digress.
> > Stone
> The few nubers of tournaments could be the cause, right. :)
> But, but, but - if what you say about players being in that suck
> compared to others not in is true, isn't this some kind of evidence
> that the ranking system sucks? ;)
Nah, was just speaking for myself, not boasting or anything. When you look
at players like Orian, Hugh, Erik, Yannick etc. they're just high in ranking
for a reason, because they're good, period. Players of such caliber are in
high ranking because they deserve to be.
In 2025, maybe we'll do a Legendary Vampire: Reloaded tournament, with only
25 players and with a different prerequisite. Something easy, like...winning
a Continental Championship. That would rock.
Stone
P.S. for those of you googling in the year 2025, marvel at the beauty of my
predictions
squidalot
> "Amenophobis" <preache...@gmx.at> a écrit dans le message denews:b4a51bcd-8f25-4546...@i21g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
Heh
You don't need 8 tournaments to generate a rating it's just a sum of
your best 8 events.
I do recall that you needed 5 tournaments to get yourself rated
originally but I don't know if that's still true
Anyway yes the rating system is naff as it's crazy that the prior year
winner or the NAC winner etc wouldn't be in a LV invite :P
squidalot
> "Amenophobis" <preache...@gmx.at> a écrit dans le message denews:b4a51bcd-8f25-4546...@i21g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
Yeah I mean Martin has only won 2 EC's so he msut like 'suck' *oh look
pigs a flying in a snow covered hellish landscape*
The ratings, such that they are, take your best 8 results over 18
months - you don't need 8 results in those 18 months to have a
rating. That'd be silly.
I beleive you need an initial 5 results to start counting but that's
it.
I'm more than happy to forgo my place to Martin as he's earnt it far
more than I have.
Unless we're doing it just based on Welsh Continental Qualifer wins.
Then I rock.
Stone
"squidalot" <hugh.an...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
5b0e5f76-e7ea-498d...@g13g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>Heh
>You don't need 8 tournaments to generate a rating it's just a sum of
>your best 8 events.
>I do recall that you needed 5 tournaments to get yourself rated
>originally but I don't know if that's still true
ah yes, quite right, my bad. It's actually written on the rating page as
well.
Looks like I had stuck with the original idea from Stephane Lavrut, back in
early 2004, in which rating was the sum of the best 8 tournaments. I don't
know when it changed, but whatever.
Stone
Ben Peal
> Anyway yes the rating system is naff as it's crazy that the prior year
> winner or the NAC winner etc wouldn't be in a LV invite :P
I think there's a difference between what the intent of the
Legendary Vampire tournament is, and what people's expectations are of
the word "Legendary". As far as I can tell, the LV was born out of
the idea that the ratings system should actually be used for
something, plus the "what if" thinking of using ratings instead of the
qualifier system for a championship or other major event. That's a
totally fine idea to explore. Stone picked the name of a card to use
as a cute title for the event and off he went.
The problem is that he picked the title "Legendary Vampire". When
people think of "legendary", they think "what your major
accomplishments are over a significant period of time" instead of
"what you've done in the past 18 months". If you want to have a
"Legends of VTES" tournament, the very first thing you do is invite
Rob Treasure. The qualification system for the LV doesn't allow for
that, but then again, that isn't the intent of the event. The name of
the event just happens to be unfortunate.
- Ben Peal
Vincent
>
> I'm more than happy to forgo my place to Martin as he's earnt it far
> more than I have.
Based on what? I'm sure he isn't able to tap a card anymore ;)
Anyway, the tournament is supposed to gather the top 25 best *current*
players, not to replay a Cassius Clay vs Rocky Balboa match :p
Amenophobis
> On 21 oct, 00:38, squidalot <hugh.angsees...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm more than happy to forgo my place to Martin as he's earnt it far
> > more than I have.
>
> Based on what? I'm sure he isn't able to tap a card anymore ;)
I noticed the smiley, but still, what do you infer?
Martin is the current EC champion.
> Anyway, the tournament is supposed to gather the top 25 best *current*
> players, not to replay a Cassius Clay vs Rocky Balboa match :p
Again, what do you mean?
Blooded Sand
In fact, think not including ALL current continental Champions is
going against the idea of this tournament
Ben Peal
> In fact, think not including ALL current continental Champions is
From the Legendary Vampire Tournament FAQ:
http://ec2010.sabbatinfrance.org/event/legendary-vampire/
"Its purpose is to get the top 25 World rated players in a dedicated
environment: a tournament where the level of competition is high and
the occasional “chaos factor” brought by inexperienced players
minimized."
So again, there's a difference between what the stated intention of
the tournament is and what other people think of when they see the
word "legendary".
- Ben Peal
Blooded Sand
Then maybe calling it something else could be good?
As far as i am concerneed anything called legendary vampire that does
not auto invite ben peal, matt morgan, hugh anseeing and various
others is missing some legends.....
Ben Peal
> Then maybe calling it something else could be good?
Calling it something else might eliminate confusion about the idea
of the event, sure.
Heh...it's possible for someone to win the LV and not be qualified
for next year's LV. :)
- Ben Peal
floppyzedolfin
> On Oct 21, 5:08 pm, Ben Peal <benp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Blooded Sand:
>
> > > In fact, think not including ALL current continental Champions is
> > > going against the idea of this tournament- Hide quoted text -
>
> > From the Legendary Vampire Tournament FAQ:
>
> > http://ec2010.sabbatinfrance.org/event/legendary-vampire/
>
> > "Its purpose is to get the top 25 World rated players in a dedicated
> > environment: a tournament where the level of competition is high and
> > the occasional “chaos factor” brought by inexperienced players
> > minimized."
>
> > So again, there's a difference between what the stated intention of
> > the tournament is and what other people think of when they see the
> > word "legendary".
>
> > - Ben Peal
>
> Then maybe calling it something else could be good?
Would "Legendary Vampire 2010" sound more appropriate?
Stone
"Blooded Sand" <sand...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
3d9c8583-4cb9-476e...@l14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>As far as i am concerneed anything called legendary vampire that does
>not auto invite ben peal, matt morgan, hugh anseeing and various
>others is missing some legends.....
Hum, Hugh is invited to pre-register since september 13th. Not my fault if
he's still hesitating on attending the LV vs attending the LCQ.
Stone
Stone
"Ben Peal" <ben...@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
73a2de6e-8853-47d9...@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Well said. Thanks, Ben.
Just one correction : I never picked the name of the card Legendary Vampire
for the event. AFAIK, that idea either came from Zkopiosy aka Patrick Benoit
or from Moravagine aka Jerome Bauzon, who created the 1st edition of the LV.
Even though the 2010 edition of the LV has a stightly different format, I
kept the name out of respect for the people who got the idea in the first
place.
I'll also add that indeed, the general idea behind the LV is to use the
rating system for an event, and one important point is that the rating
system also rewards a player for his attendance at many tournaments.
And in the bigger picture, getting incentive for people to regularly attend
tournaments is important for getting VtES growing (or healthy, or 'alive',
or whatever). So it follows that the LV isn't some super show with all the
major badasses from VtES history, it's a tournament with 25 very good
players as determined by their rating. Of course, some of those 25 players
are also "legends" by your book, but the issue definitely isn't about
selecting the "best" 25 players around.
It's just a different format with a different set of rules for invitation,
that's all. It's not meant to make the ego of the people who are 'in'
bigger, neither is it meant to discredit the people who are 'out'.
And tell you what, nothing prevents anyone from organizing a different LV
with a different selection of its players. Feel free to make one !
Stone
Rob Treasure
news:73a2de6e-8853-47d9...@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> The problem is that he picked the title "Legendary Vampire". When
> people think of "legendary", they think "what your major
> accomplishments are over a significant period of time" instead of
> "what you've done in the past 18 months". If you want to have a
> "Legends of VTES" tournament, the very first thing you do is invite
> Rob Treasure. The qualification system for the LV doesn't allow for
> that, but then again, that isn't the intent of the event. The name of
> the event just happens to be unfortunate.
> - Ben Peal
Big thanks for the props mate, your accomplishments far outstrip mine
though. Ah well, given more time and interest I'd like to think I'd still be
up there somewhere.
Rob
Still here... reading... lurking... watching.
Brum
> From the Legendary Vampire Tournament FAQ:
>
> http://ec2010.sabbatinfrance.org/event/legendary-vampire/
>
> "Its purpose is to get the top 25 World rated players in a dedicated
> environment: a tournament where the level of competition is high and
> the occasional “chaos factor” brought by inexperienced players
> minimized."
I had not read this because I only found out recently that if all my
tournaments had been registered I would be able to play it.
And I would not.
Because this tournament goes against the reason I'm going to Paris.
I found in VtES a great atmosphere were the "top folks" are usually
nice and humble. Having the chance to interact with the likes of Kevin
M, Matt Morgan, Hugh, Robyn, Floppy, Orian, etc., is the best thing
that could happen to a new player (in these big stages) and an
organizer of domestic events like me.
Going to Palma made me a better player.
Going to Palma made me a better organizer.
I think "chaos factor brought by inexperienced players" is a
regretful expression and I think that it goes against the spirit and
atmosphere that makes these types of big events awesome.
As does this type of tournament.
Why would you want to have the best, most experienced, nicest players
away from the general population for a whole day?
You could have said "a tournament where the level of competition is
high and already qualified players don't clutter the LCQ".
You could have called it Grand Prix 2010.
You could have called it Top Rank Championship 2010.
You didn't and I think that says allot.
But don't worry, besides bringing chaos to the Olympus of VtES, I plan
to share drinks, laughs and tables with as many of you as I can.
And brig those of you that prove to be Cylons. My human gut feeling is
not chaotic and is all the proof I need.
Cheers!
Tiago Brum
Stone
"Rob Treasure" <robtr...@hotmail.com> a �crit dans le message de news:
ia4ror$k9r$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Big thanks for the props mate, your accomplishments far outstrip mine
> though. Ah well, given more time and interest I'd like to think I'd still
> be up there somewhere.
>
> Rob
> Still here... reading... lurking... watching.
>
Rob, last year you told me on my very first visit to IRC that you would come
to Paris for the EC! Come on, it's still time to pack your luggage and board
the next plane or train to Paris !
Stone
Lönkka
> Why would you want to have the best, most experienced, nicest players
> away from the general population for a whole day?
>
> You could have said "a tournament where the level of competition is
> high and already qualified players don't clutter the LCQ".
> You could have called it Grand Prix 2010.
> You could have called it Top Rank Championship 2010.
> You didn't and I think that says allot.
Apples and oranges, methinks.
I think that this was a nice idea as some people have raised a
question about already qualified players grabbing up qualifications at
the LCQ and such a prestigiuous invitation only tournament gives them
a viable alternative.
And attending Legendary Vampire isn't mandatory but I kinda think that
not one player turned the invitation down.
I think that the term "chaos factor" was dead on, as you're bound to
encounter some of that the bigger the (open) tournament is. Heck, I
consider myself a klutz who certainly is an agent of enthropy and thus
certainly adds chaos factor... ;)
-Janne/Lönkka
Rob Treasure
news:4cc6063d$0$1272$426a...@news.free.fr...
>
> "Rob Treasure"
>> Big thanks for the props mate, your accomplishments far outstrip mine
>> though. Ah well, given more time and interest I'd like to think I'd still
>> be up there somewhere.
>>
>> Rob
>> Still here... reading... lurking... watching.
>>
>
> Rob, last year you told me on my very first visit to IRC that you would
> come to Paris for the EC! Come on, it's still time to pack your luggage
> and board the next plane or train to Paris !
> Stone
Alas, other priorities and money prohibit the visit and times change over
the course of a year eh?
Rob
Brum
> I think that this was a nice idea as some people have raised a
> question about already qualified players grabbing up qualifications at
> the LCQ
I agree that already qualified players shouldn't grab up qualification
spots.
Let's have a talk about it Saturday night, shall we? :)
See this point of view: The player that is not qualified. (You can
extrapolate this to any new player)
Imagine he is new to these big events OR did not have the chance to
play in enough qualifier to qualify (either way lacking experience).
That is exactly the player that we should focus our attention in
making sure his experience is as good and fun as possible.
Why? We want him to keep playing the game and we want him to come
back.
I think it is much better to introduce that player to the best
environment possible and maximize his experience, so he already gets a
glimpse of what is going to happen the next day and gets a first
contact with the more experienced players. Oddly enough (or maybe
not), they are nice, fun folks. The kind of guys you want to have
around new players.
I may be putting the focus on the wrong thing. Most of those 25
players deserve to have fun too and they support the game like few
others, thus are very important to all of us too.
BTW Jeff Thomson and Ralf Lambert are also good examples of Legendary
status and they wouldn't "qualify".
The only thing I really think is unfortunate is the name and the chaos
expression.
But only those who organize things get to do mistakes while
organizing. ;)
Have fun everybody!
Tiago
Lönkka
> On Oct 26, 8:55 am, Lönkka <lon...@fantasiapelit.fi> wrote:
>
> > I think that this was a nice idea as some people have raised a
> > question about already qualified players grabbing up qualifications at
> > the LCQ
>
> I agree that already qualified players shouldn't grab up qualification
> spots.
But I don't ;)
> Let's have a talk about it Saturday night, shall we? :)
Yes indeedy.
Janne/Lönkka