Signing off USENET
LSJ
I'll still be on boardgamegeek, so feel free to post rules questions
there.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/forum/31522/vampire-the-eternal-struggle/rules
Peter D Bakija
Well, I guess that's that then.
How's the new VEKN discussion forum coming together? I suppose we
could all just migrate over there. I realize that BGG has the
advantage of having visibility for people who aren't already drinking
the kool-aid, but personally, I really dislike the interface and
flashing adds and whatnot.
-Peter
salem
and that's just the sort of push i needed to get signed up there.
account created, vtes section bookmarked, forum thread rss feeds added to my
blackberry's rss rader. :)
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
Jeff Kuta
May we ask why? New Year's Resolution? Tech change that makes it less
palatable? Changing role wrt VTES?
Jeff
Alf
That's exactly what I'd have asked too. And in addition:
Is BGG as reliable, archiveable, searcheable and universally
accessable like USENET uses to be?
This kind of feels like a bad sign to me. Marks an end of an era,
even.
<big exhale>
Cheers
Alf
<insert clever quotation here>
Jozxyqk
> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/forum/31522/vampire-the-eternal-struggle/rules
Not even via Google Groups?
Sad news indeed; the way Usenet does threading in discussions, with
such a variety of front-end views, is unmatched. Finding any official
rulings on BGG, as much as I love the site, is going to be difficult.
I guess this leaves floppyzedolfin as the definitive source of information
on the newsgroup...
Will you still be reachable over email for questions? Are they letting you
keep the "vtesrep" address?
salem
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> With 2011, I'll no longer be reading this (or any other) USENET group.
>> I'll still be on boardgamegeek, so feel free to post rules questions
>> there.
>
>> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/forum/31522/vampire-the-eternal-
struggle/rules
>
> Not even via Google Groups?
this question strikes me as odd. I guess Scott's situation might be that he
doesn't want to bother with running newsreader software anymore, but I
suspect it's more just to do with consolidating where he spends his time,
and if he's already at BGG for other stuff, he may as well stick to that for
VTES. suggesting he might use a non-optimal way to interface with this
usenet group instead of a better method (newsreader) seems to miss the
point.
> Sad news indeed; the way Usenet does threading in discussions, with
> such a variety of front-end views, is unmatched. Finding any official
> rulings on BGG, as much as I love the site, is going to be difficult.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/spsearch.php?objectid=2122&objecttype=thing&q=&searchauthor=%22L.
+Scott+Johnson%22&forumid=66&searchfield=all&displayresults=excerpt&B1=Submit
Use the 'search' button while in the 'rules' sub-forum of the vtes forum.
Put "L. Scott Johnson" in the username field.
Although I do love usenet, the searchability is more google's doing than
usenet being cool. You could probably search BGG using a custom google
search too. eg: If I want to find rulings on 'weapon' at BGG just put all
this in to google:
site:boardgamegeek.com "L. Scott Johnson" "Vampire: The Eternal Struggle"
weapon
could do a little mix and matching to pull results from both the usenet
group and BGG with a little bit of effort. Someone might even be nice enough
to put together a webscript to do it all and all you have to do is enter the
keywords for the ruling you're looking for.
LSJ
> >> With 2011, I'll no longer be reading this (or any other) USENET group.
> >May we ask why?
>
> That's exactly what I'd have asked too. And in addition:
>
> Is BGG as reliable, archiveable, searcheable and universally
> accessable like USENET uses to be?
Yes,
Yes,
Yes,
and moreso, yes.
It also has less spam, more signal, and admins to cut down on the
flaming trolls.
Jozxyqk
> Although I do love usenet, the searchability is more google's doing than
> usenet being cool.
I wasn't talking so much about searchability, as threadability.
BGG discussions are difficult to branch off into tangential interesting
topics that end up leading to rulings unrelated to the original question,
which happens all the time on the newsgroup.
I'm sure we'll survive.
I'm just resistant to change.
Get off my lawn.
Alf
> I'm sure we'll survive.
> I'm just resistant to change.
> Get off my lawn.
ya know, there's a new cool lawn, just over there :-)
-Alf
Peter D Bakija
> I'm sure we'll survive.
> I'm just resistant to change.
> Get off my lawn.
Yeah, I just went over there to poke around based on this discussion,
and man, it is slow and flashy and klunky and each page open takes a
significant amount of time to open. I don't know that I can stomach
the interface.
VEKN discussion forum? Anyone?
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> Yeah, I just went over there to poke around based on this discussion,
> and man, it is slow and flashy and klunky and each page open takes a
> significant amount of time to open. I don't know that I can stomach
> the interface.
Aggh!
So I was just giving BGG a whirl. And looking at the VTES forums from
the link LSJ posted above. And decided to sign in, in case I wanted to
post something (having a pre-existing registration). So when I sign
in, it takes me out of the VTES forum and just leaves me on a blank
page. And I just spent 10 minutes trying to get back to the VTES forum
and failing at every turn. Except when I go back to a page in my
history, except when I do that, it un-logs me in.
That place. It is a pain in the ass.
Someone. Please. VEKN forum? Ready to go? Anyone?
-Peter
Jeff Kuta
So you're saying we can have a normal discussion there, unlike the
threadjacking flamefest that used to be "Changes in the Game"?
Damnans
[...]
>
> That place. It is a pain in the ass.
>
> Someone. Please. VEKN forum? Ready to go? Anyone?
The VEKN forum is fully operational:
http://rating.vekn.de/index.php/forum/
--
Damnans
http://www.almadrava.net/damnans
http://www.vtes.net
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/vteshispania/
http://iuturna.sorcery.net (IRC channel: #vtes)
John McGlynn
I, for one, welcome our new BGG overlords.
Let's not continue to hide away in our own corner of the internet. If
you want VTES to continue more than another year or two, bring it to a
high-traffic area *with a high concentration of people likely to try
the game*.
It's about damn time.
--
John McGlynn
those vekn forums look pretty cool, too
LSJ
That's one of the "pro"s, yes. Well, people can still threadjack and
flame, but there would be consequences for that content-free
sociopathic stuff, since there are moderators/admins on BGG, unlike
the free-form peer-based USENET.
LSJ
Meh. I don't notice any slow-loading there, but you can always just
sign up (subscribe) to the vtes forum and get emailed links to new
topics (and new posts to topics you ID as being interested in).
The Lasombra
>So I was just giving BGG a whirl. And looking at the VTES forums from
>the link LSJ posted above. And decided to sign in, in case I wanted to
>post something (having a pre-existing registration). So when I sign
>in, it takes me out of the VTES forum and just leaves me on a blank
>page. And I just spent 10 minutes trying to get back to the VTES forum
>and failing at every turn. Except when I go back to a page in my
>history, except when I do that, it un-logs me in.
>That place. It is a pain in the ass.
Agreed.
To get logged in usefully, I follow these steps:
1) Hit bookmark:
http://boardgamegeek.com/forums/thing/2122/vampire-the-eternal-struggle
2) Login
3) Hit bookmark.
http://boardgamegeek.com/forums/thing/2122/vampire-the-eternal-struggle
Its always been a useless bit of extra work that competent forum
software can handle, i.e. log you in and get you back to the page that
caused you to want to log in....
salem
after logging in, back button to the page you started on followed by
'refresh' should also work. I haven't tested it on BGG, but it's worked for
me on other forums.
salem
running adblock in either firefox or google chrome should also help with
page speed.
I turned if off to see what the site looks like without it and it gets
pretty messy. But with adblock on, it's a fairly reasonable site.
Peter D Bakija
> The VEKN forum is fully operational:
>
> http://rating.vekn.de/index.php/forum/
Hmm. Well, there you go. The VEKN forum has the advantages of being
much more reasonable to look at, not plagued by flashing ads for tic-
tac-toe and pancakes, and much more reasonably organized than the BGG
forum. But is a place that will only be frequented by people who are
already drinking the kool-aid.
The BGG forum has the advantages of being a place that is visible to
new/dabbling/possibly interested players. And is where LSJ has stated
he is going to frequent.
Given the choice, I'd lean in the direction of the VEKN forum for
completely aesthetic reasons. But if that is shooting ourselves in the
foot, the BGG is the way to go. Gah.
-Peter
salem
I've signed up to both to see which way the wind blows.
one thing I found with BGG is you need "geek gold" to upload an avatar. I
have no idea what that is, but it seems to be tied to how much realworld
money you donate to BGG?
James Coupe
>one thing I found with BGG is you need "geek gold" to upload an avatar. I
>have no idea what that is, but it seems to be tied to how much realworld
>money you donate to BGG?
No, you can earn GeekGold by contributing content.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/GeekGold
Many of the rewards are approved by admins, rather than automatic, to
prevent you gaming the system, I guess. e.g. getting points for
uploading useful pictures is good, but uploading every V:TES card
individually probably isn't what they're after.
You can _also_ gain it through money.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Johannes Walch
Please note that there is a new V:EKN website:
It is close to the public release, but forum is already fully functional.
While BGG is a good idea and will also spread visibility of the game, I
think and suggest that the core of exisiting players will find
themselves there and information will flow between BGG/vekn.net and
newsgroup.
Johannes Walch
Chairman of the V:EKN
LSJ
> salem <kella...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >one thing I found with BGG is you need "geek gold" to upload an avatar. I
> >have no idea what that is, but it seems to be tied to how much realworld
> >money you donate to BGG?
>
> No, you can earn GeekGold by contributing content.
>
> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/GeekGold
>
> Many of the rewards are approved by admins, rather than automatic, to
> prevent you gaming the system, I guess. e.g. getting points for
> uploading useful pictures is good, but uploading every V:TES card
> individually probably isn't what they're after.
>
> You can _also_ gain it through money.
And you can get GG through tips (every post has a built-in tip jar, so
that other users can tip content they deem extra worthy).
But you can also use Boardgamegeek with no avatar and no GG (just like
Google Groups :-) ).
Jozxyqk
> You can _also_ gain [GG] through money.
If you're willing to give real money to get GG, now would be a good
time to do it. If you donate $15+ during their Support Drive (before
the end of the year/week), you'll get a huge bonus of GG.
Peter D Bakija
> I've signed up to both to see which way the wind blows.
>
> one thing I found with BGG is you need "geek gold" to upload an avatar. I
> have no idea what that is, but it seems to be tied to how much realworld
> money you donate to BGG?
Yeah, I discovered that last night. And then spent 15 minutes digging
around trying to find information on what is or is not "geek gold" or
how to get it. And couldn't find any information at all. And again got
irritated.
-Peter
Jozxyqk
Peter D Bakija
> http://www.vekn.net
>
> It is close to the public release, but forum is already fully functional.
>
> While BGG is a good idea and will also spread visibility of the game, I
> think and suggest that the core of exisiting players will find
> themselves there and information will flow between BGG/vekn.net and
> newsgroup.
Well, I guess what the big determinant is is if LSJ will frequent that
forum (as opposed to just BGG) and if that forum will become the
default location for posting tournament reports for the TWDA or not.
Having to navigate between two forums (VEKN and BGG) is less optimal
than having one forum that is the defacto "official" forum.
-Peter
salem
and I just spent 15 minutes trying to find how to rate a game. But failed.
And got irritated.
:)
but I'm ok now.
LSJ
> >> On Dec 30, 12:16 am, salem <kella...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > I've signed up to both to see which way the wind blows.
>
> >> > one thing I found with BGG is you need "geek gold" to upload an avatar.
> >> > I have no idea what that is, but it seems to be tied to how much
> >> > realworld money you donate to BGG?
>
> >> Yeah, I discovered that last night. And then spent 15 minutes digging
> >> around trying to find information on what is or is not "geek gold" or
> >> how to get it. And couldn't find any information at all. And again got
> >> irritated.
>
> >http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/GeekGold
>
> and I just spent 15 minutes trying to find how to rate a game. But failed.
> And got irritated.
>
> :)
>
> but I'm ok now.
Go to the game's page, scroll down to the bottom and click "Record
Information" (in the "User Information" section).
Raille
"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:7ef73f39-52d1-4cb3...@t35g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
VEKN discussion forum? Anyone?
-Peter
Well I find it difficult to locate anything Vtes related there.
I think a specific room or forum needs to be created.
Raille
Raille
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:05a850b2-432f-4a1e...@v17g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
It would be great if I could just find the Vtes Forum.
Have a hand link?
Raille
XZealot
> With 2011, I'll no longer be reading this (or any other) USENET group.
> I'll still be on boardgamegeek, so feel free to post rules questions
> there.
>
There isn't a deck list sub-forum?
librarian
>>
>> Meh. I don't notice any slow-loading there, but you can always just
>> sign up (subscribe) to the vtes forum and get emailed links to new
>> topics (and new posts to topics you ID as being interested in).
>
> running adblock in either firefox or google chrome should also help with
> page speed.
>
> I turned if off to see what the site looks like without it and it gets
> pretty messy. But with adblock on, it's a fairly reasonable site.
>
Here's where I went to find AdBlock for FF.
http://adblockplus.org/en/installation
chris
Peter D Bakija
> Well I find it difficult to locate anything Vtes related there.
> I think a specific room or forum needs to be created.
Go here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/forums/thing/2122/vampire-the-eternal-struggle
The forum and sub forums exist and aren't that difficult to navigate.
But are difficult to find in the first place (I found it by clicking
on LSJ's link in the first post, getting to the main Forum index for
VTES, and just bookmarking it; when I went looking to find the Forum
cold, I too was completely incapable of finding it...)
-Peter
LSJ
> On Dec 30, 9:25 pm, "Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Well I find it difficult to locate anything Vtes related there.
> > I think a specific room or forum needs to be created.
>
> Go here:
>
>
> The forum and sub forums exist and aren't that difficult to navigate.
> But are difficult to find in the first place (I found it by clicking
> on LSJ's link in the first post, getting to the main Forum index for
> VTES, and just bookmarking it; when I went looking to find the Forum
> cold, I too was completely incapable of finding it...)
>
> -Peter
?
Search for Vampire The Eternal Struggle, go to the game page, and
scroll down to the forum section.
Peter D Bakija
> Search for Vampire The Eternal Struggle, go to the game page, and
> scroll down to the forum section.
Huh. When you put it like that, it seems really obvious. But when I
was looking, I tried all sorts of things, and failed to find what I
was looking for. Probably due to that main VTES page having that
really long list of expansion symbols in the middle of it.
-Peter
Tazar
work as it is tagged as games.
Have fun there.
Blooded Sand
try the new vekn forum, that might not be as vekn is not a recognised
game term...
LSJ
Ah. Yeah, that's what you get with user-edited content on the main
game page. Most games have nice, short descriptions.
Raille
"XZealot" <xze...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c4aabdf5-f3c6-4bf8...@f8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Why yes it is!
Thanks. I'm bookmarking the sub forum and have subscribed.
I do have to say, that as a place that is assumed to provide info to new
players and expand the base, its is not easy to locate. I fear the end has
not been stopped, but only shifted back.
Maybe we will be lucky and another company will eventually re-establish the
game.
Raille
Dennis
These two geeklists are a great help for people new to BGG
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/30286/change-it-up-making-bgg-in-your-image
http://geekdo.com/geeklist/41134/new-users-want-to-know-who-what-where-when-and-why
Wilsoros
I own www.vtes.org and will yield the domain name if someone wants to
run a better forum than I have up. If someone also has a better
software, I will happily upgrade.
Best
David Wilson
The Lasombra
>LSJ et al
The problem with any new forum is content.
If you don't have enough people creating content, you don't have a
living forum that keeps people coming back to read it and eventually
add content of their own.
The newsgroup has a great deal of content, if you can moderate out the
spam and undesirable content.
You can incorporate the newsgroup in your forum/website via a Fast
Uncompromising Discussion forum.
http://fudforum.org
http://sourceforge.net/projects/fudforum/files/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUDforum
PHP forum system with MySQL, PostgreSQL or SQLite backend that
supports USENET and email list archiving.
Ability to load USENET and E-mail list messages and sync forum replies
back to these groups and lists.
Wilsoros
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 10:00:02 -0800 (PST), Wilsoros wrote:
> >LSJ et al
> >run a better forum than I have up. If someone also has a better
> >software, I will happily upgrade.
>
> The problem with any new forum is content.
>
> If you don't have enough people creating content, you don't have a
> living forum that keeps people coming back to read it and eventually
> add content of their own.
>
> The newsgroup has a great deal of content, if you can moderate out the
> spam and undesirable content.
>
> You can incorporate the newsgroup in your forum/website via a Fast
> Uncompromising Discussion forum.
>
>
> PHP forum system with MySQL, PostgreSQL or SQLite backend that
> supports USENET and email list archiving.
>
> Ability to load USENET and E-mail list messages and sync forum replies
> back to these groups and lists.
Thanks lasombra, I will take a look at these and see if I can't get
something worked out. I don't personally have any issues with BGG due
to using it for other games, but I don't think it is intuitive.
Joscha
Everybody should do this. Let's give the game a rating it deserves. Go
for the 10, mates.
Atom Weaver
> It's about damn time.
>
Ayyy-Men!
DZ
AW
Peter D Bakija
> > It's about damn time.
>
> Ayyy-Men!
And yet the legions of BGG loving VTES fans are yet to show up on BGG
and flood the boards with exciting VTES talk. Mostly, the only active
discussion going on over there since LSJ posted this is, well, the
thread I started about how we were apparently living there now...
-Peter
Juggernaut1981
Well I honestly wasn't expecting a genuine mass-exodus. I suspect
there will be a lot of people who doggedly stay with the Usenet Group
and I have no idea if BGG would ever become the central location for
VTES... Just can't tell. The Australian VTES Board has been full of
crickets (not the sport Cricket) for a long time...
Brum
Any reason why people are not going to the new Forum at VEKN?
I am not going to BGG any time soon. Scott is free to do as he
pleases, but I see more benefits to the game if he goes to VEKN, than
him going to BGG.
The visibility argument is moot, because if people go in-mass to the
VEKN site, it gets much more hits altogether and if those statistics
came out, that would be a much better reason to have someone invest in
the game VS. some marginal hits in a gaming board forum.
Tiago
Peter D Bakija
> Any reason why people are not going to the new Forum at VEKN?
People are doing that too. But there isn't much going on over there,
either.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
Well, not really. Mind you, I'm not, like, outright claiming that BGG
is better than VEKN or whatever, but the argument of "more non VTES
gamers will see VTES discussion happening on BGG than on the VEKN
site" is completely sound--no one is going to go to the VEKN unless
they are already invested in VTES. On BGG, discussion of VTES shows up
on the non VTES related list of things being talked about, at which
point people who are on BGG, interested in VTES, but unaware that
discussion is going on have the potential to see that it is happening
and join in. Such a potential doesn't really exist with the VEKN site--
unless you are already going to specifically look for discussion about
VTES, you aren't going to be going there.
> because if people go in-mass to the
> VEKN site, it gets much more hits altogether and if those statistics
> came out,
Where are those statistics going to come out? People Talking About
VTES Statistics Weekly? I mean, again, don't get me wrong here. I'm
certainly pro discussion on the VEKN site. But if one's argument is
"if we go to BGG, people who aren't that invested in VTES, but have to
potential to become invested, will see the discussion", that holds up.
-Peter
Brum
> On Jan 4, 11:10 am, Brum <tiago.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The visibility argument is moot,
>
> Well, not really. Mind you, I'm not, like, outright claiming that BGG
> is better than VEKN or whatever, but the argument of "more non VTES
> gamers will see VTES discussion happening on BGG than on the VEKN
> site" is completely sound--no one is going to go to the VEKN unless
> they are already invested in VTES. On BGG, discussion of VTES shows up
> on the non VTES related list of things being talked about, at which
> point people who are on BGG, interested in VTES, but unaware that
> discussion is going on have the potential to see that it is happening
> and join in. Such a potential doesn't really exist with the VEKN site--
> unless you are already going to specifically look for discussion about
> VTES, you aren't going to be going there.
You're right. To attract a non-VtES gamer to our side, BGG is by far
the best way to promote the game.
I didn't mean that and I didn't explain myself well. Sorry.
What I mean is that an interested company/investor in VtES might see
the hits and vibrant community in VEKN as a sign that the game keeps a
loyal group of followers. It was only to those statistics and to that
specific use I was writing about. In this case I think VEKN is better
than BGG.
> > because if people go in-mass to the
> > VEKN site, it gets much more hits altogether and if those statistics
> > came out,
>
> Where are those statistics going to come out? People Talking About
> VTES Statistics Weekly? I mean, again, don't get me wrong here. I'm
> certainly pro discussion on the VEKN site. But if one's argument is
> "if we go to BGG, people who aren't that invested in VTES, but have to
> potential to become invested, will see the discussion", that holds up.
>
> -Peter
The VEKN has a Director of Marketing. He or anybody else can spread
the word in places such as the BGG, future articles in online gaming
magazines, conventions, etc.
To attract passer-bys? BGG is the best. To care for our own community
and to strengthen what we already have? I believe VEKN is the best
solution.
I agree that there is not much discussion in VEKN at the moment, but
it is in growing pains.
It would help this kind of discussions moved there.
Yes, I know what I'm writing. The end of newsgroups.
What is keep us coming back here?
Me: TWDs, rules questions, event news and discussions such as this.
Would it be worse to have all of this nice and tidy in a forum? How
about fusion with other international forums?
Just a few thoughts :)
Tiago