Ryan S. Dancey kills VTES again?
The Lasombra
You decide (last paragraph):
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25704
Can you fill me in on the status of White Wolf, the physical game
company CCP acquired in Atlanta?
It's just an imprint... White Wolf used to have a fairly large staff.
It doesn't anymore. It's focusing primarily on the World of Darkness
RPG products. It's not doing some of the things it used to do; board
games and other card games and things. The focus of the company [CCP]
is on making MMOs and our legacy table top business is a legacy
business.
Baaliprimogen
Ryan S Dancey
Type: Event
Gehenna
But this card in play and stop playing.
Lönkka
> It's not doing some of the things it used to do; board
> games and other card games and things.
WWP hasn't really done that many board games.
Only in the recent years has it significantly tried to branch out of
the RPG + VTES niche. And even then not with that many boardgames.
"and things"
Eh?
I gather this refers to some ancilliary material like pins and
neclaces
The focus of the company [CCP]
> is on making MMOs and our legacy table top business is a legacy
> business.
Yeah, if it isn't broken and ain't making a HUGE profit then it just
MUST be axed.
Why put all your eggs in one basket?
From what little I've followed Ryan's opinnions during the years I
think the man's seems to be quite full of hot air.
Just last week I noticed a link to this in the WW website:
http://www.youtube.com/whitewolfgames
At least in the presentations CCP and WW people promise all kinds of
exciting goodies for the players.
Perhaps they are just blatantly lying...
C U at Mallorca,
Lönkka / Janne
Meej
> Ryan S. Dancey kills VTES again?
I read "other card games" as non-WoD card games, like that Pimp thing.
- D.J.
Brum
I find this discussion very interesting, because it's obvious to all
that White Wolf is working allot slower then it did in the past,
although I don't think that's true for everything in VtES. Storylines
are better then ever, I think. Ben is doing great work and the
expansions that have come out have been great for the game. KoT is the
best base set since Jyhad/VtES.
But yes, lots of stuff is done by volunteers and we all have to pay
everything out of our pocket, we all have a say in the changes of the
game and we can all reach directly LSJ, Robyn, Ben or Orcar. That's
very good and I think it is one of the things that make this game
great.
That said, I think that dropping VtES is pure management madness.
Maybe it's not the biggest source of revenue to CCP, but I bet that
VtES is one of the best business they have in percentage of cost VS
profit.
There are people here that have better data on this then me, I'm sure.
I would really like to discuss this, or know where I can read about
this.
I would really like to see a debate or presentation like in the ICC,
with Oscar and LSJ, in Palma de Maiorca. All his doomsday athmosphere
should be calmed and tasty bits of news or future plans could be very
helpfull.
Most of the europe's coordinators and local organisers will be there
and would be nice of White Wolf to give them a word.
Cheers,
Tiago Brum
Juggernaut1981
Here's a big Question: If CCP plan to dump VTES, is anyone willing to
pick it up?
Christian
industry I've ever seen or (briefly) met. Those of us who were playing
in the RPGA back in the day remember him well, and not fondly. Several
of my friends were screwed out of money by him and his company when
they demanded a membership fee to register and play LC events, and
then closed up shop and left people with their collective asses
swinging in the wind.
The fact that he's a bigwig at CCP really, really makes me fear for
their future.
Christian
Brum
hmmm. This is a good question and one that obviously is not to be
answered by anyone even remotely connected with White Wolf.
I think this brings about another good thing to discuss:
What does a game like VtES need to stay alive and keep interest by its
players?
I wrote mildly about it when I mentioned that this game has a big
volunteer base and the company gives very little suport to those that
organise tournaments, in comparison with other games.
First off I would like to say that I think that the few people White
Wolf has in VtES, in general, are limited by what the company gives
them.
So LSJ, Oscar cannot gather the resources to spread
Competition / Promotion:
With the exception of our Continental Qualifier (it had prize suport
of 70 boosters, 14 t-shirts and promos), everything we give in
tournaments as prizes is bought by us (the Prince and Primogen of
Lisbon) previously to the events.
We get the venues by ourselves, do the Demos and everything else.
I think it is the same way all over the world. So that part is
covered, but it could use some improvement. Specially the Promotion
part, although it may have nothing to do with the above mentioned
staff.
New exciting material to keep the game fresh?
Is it profitable? If yes, it might be no problem.
The new people picking it up would need to buy the rights from CCP. Is
there a calculation of how much that costs?
And players? How would they react to that?
I was not in VtES at the time, but the game must have died allot after
Wizards and before White Wolf.
I think this discussion is legitimate due to the article that started
it and silence from the staff on the new releases / plans for the
game.
JMHO,
Tiago
Robert Goudie
I think we're probably fine.
Though, now that Ryan "S"top-the-presses Dancey has spoken and with
the recent decline of support, WW/CCP would be wise to issue some kind
of statement affirming V:TES' good health and future outlook.
-Robert
Juggernaut1981
From someone who has spent some time listening to "big corporates"
talk their talk, it worries me to hear the phrase "legacy business" in
a phrase that potentially gathers ALL of what WW does, other than
nWoD.
Legacy business is often code for: the old stuff we're going to sweep
into the cupboard and not bother with because we think we can get
better bang for our buck elsewhere. It's the kind of statement that
ignores whatever an individual products/departments own profitability
may be to put more eggs into the other baskets (that someone believes
will make comparatively more money).
It seems odd for CCP to purchase WW, say "we're in the MMORPG
Business" and "slowly shut down everything but nWoD" without looming
up the idea that nWoD will become an MMORPG once the backlog of source
books is created. It then gives CCP a place to say "Now we've got the
MMORPG, we'll move everything virtual. Stop the printers and
basically close down WW".
I hope it isn't the underlying strategy.
James Coupe
>The new people picking it up would need to buy the rights from CCP. Is
>there a calculation of how much that costs?
Bear in mind that some of the rights may well still reside with Wizards
of the Coast. When WotC ran the game, they paid White Wolf a licence
fee for the setting. When White Wolf took over the game, they paid
Wizards a licence fee for the Deckmaster brand and mechanics.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/33ec6ead5f0b9b52
Steve Wieck says:
BTW, White Wolf and WOTC still co-own V:TES. We simply reversed the
license for it, so now we publish it and pay WOTC a royalty on
sales rather than vice versa.
Things may have changed since then, but I don't recall any similar
statements on the issue.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Petri Wessman
claimed all sorts of wild things over the years, without them coming
true. He has been predicting the death of traditional roleplaying
since.... well, forever. Take anything he says with a *huge* grain of
salt -- he has a very specifically skewed view of things. He is
convinced that online/computer games will sweep away everything. And
hell, he may be right, in the longer run... but it's a lot less simple
and pre-ordained than he thinks.
That said, the fact that he's head of marketing at CCP/WW does worry
me. This is the same guy who actively killed off VTES when he was in
charge of it (in the WotC days), because he thought vampires were
morally reprehensible. He has gone on record as saying that the WoD is
the "worst thing to ever happen to roleplaying" (though he claims to
have changed his mind on that).
I don't trust the guy, one bit.
The fact that he's the head of marketing *does* explain the zero
publicity we've seen for VTES lately, though. If he thinks everything
except computer games are "legacy" and a duying business, why spend
money on marketing them?
Johannes Walch
> From what little I've followed Ryan's opinnions during the years I
> think the man's seems to be quite full of hot air.
Isn�t that his job description?
Brum
Can he "order" LSJ or anyone else to keep us from having info on the
new expansion?
Or is this one of those "I'll put you in an impossible situation so
you are forced to break the rules and then I'm free to kill the game"
thing?
If so, it's a huge lack of respect to LSJ and the other staff. And to
us, of course.
A person like that in the system will undoubtly harm even the projects
he likes.
j-train
> That said, the fact that he's head of marketing at CCP/WW does worry
> me. This is the same guy who actively killed off VTES when he was in
> charge of it (in the WotC days), because he thought vampires were
> morally reprehensible. He has gone on record as saying that the WoD is
> the "worst thing to ever happen to roleplaying" (though he claims to
> have changed his mind on that).
>
If this is true it would explain alot and it is sad ,but then that is
what happens with people with power they tell it how it is and noone
can stand up to them, well except for us the consumer who BUYS your
product.
Johannes Walch
As far as I can see it he is head of Public Relations and not Marketing,
but I might be wrong.
Oscar is still in charge of marketing V:TES.
Blooded Sand
On a less serious note, the all singing, all dancing buttfuck monkey
parades are back in town, and they need a victim, uh (cough), i mean
volunteer. They have a particular affection for guys who sound like
nanceys. Any suggestions?
Juggernaut1981
HAHAHAHA PUBLIC RELATIONS?
Who did he work for previously? A certain Alaskan Governess? A
certain Richard "I am not a Crook" Nixon or potentially President "I
own the newspapers and TV stations" Berlusconi?
Johannes Walch
I stand corrected:
http://www.ccpgames.com/company/management.asp
The guy is on the management board of CCP as Chief Marketing Officer.
Brum
I put this here because it seems to come in context with this.
It appears that Heirs of Blood will be postponed to late December,
early January.
CPP's doing?
With no news from official souces, speculation increases and
motivation to stay in the game decreases.
Is this intended? Is this due to reasons outside White Wolf / CPP?
Is this because of the printer company? If yes, is WW getting
compensation from the delay?
Of course I exagerate in order to show my point.
Somebody, please put a stop to all the speculation.
Tiago
Juggernaut1981
Wow. CMO. Now I understand fully why he doesn't seem to actually
speak English.
But yes, he can not only tell Oscar what to market and when to market
it... but allocate him less cash to do it.
On that front, I really do hope that a company is brave enough to
consider talking to WotC and CCP to purchase the rights and possibly
staff for VTES. Anyone around here got a cool couple million they
feel like spending on buying a game?
Frederick Scott
news:3865393a-bf8e-44d2...@h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> HAHAHAHA PUBLIC RELATIONS?
> Who did he work for previously? A certain Alaskan Governess?
Mary Poppins was from Alaska?
Juggernaut1981
> "Juggernaut1981" <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Hey, at least she used to give you a spoon full of sugar with the vile
tasting crap you were going to have to swallow. So nope, he hasn't
worked for Mary Poppins.
Brum
His own filmed words (if one cares to see it all):
http://www.youtube.com/whitewolfgames#p/c/2DFF066B73D3CFD6/2/xtGTGRsxK-I
librarian
I bet it wouldn't be that expensive.
best -
chris
Juggernaut1981
Just listening to this. I think I got it right when I said CCP bought
WW to turn nWoD into an online game. Hence the other commentary I've
seen saying in effect "nWoD = + streamlined rules, - nice shiney fluff
text".
CCP wants to make nWoD MMORPG.
VTES = "old physical products" that will be phased out when the stores
die.
simcof
thats some pretty random accusations there.
Blooded Sand
You DO know who the numbfuck under discussion is, don't you?
BernieTime
I'm amazed he can still get a job in the industry after nearly killing
off both
V:TES and Legend of the 5 Rings CCG single-handedly. Remember the
fiasco that was "Rolling Thunder"? Lot5R never recovered from that
mess.
Seriously, who in their right mind would hire this guy?
Christian
Uh wow... my opinion of him has fallen even less. Let's review. You
have a room full of WoD fans...
1) Explain how you're an "idiot" and that you hated WoD.
2) Give some patronizing cock-and-bull story about how you found your
love of WoD because of your epiphany that it's a magnet for social
outcasts, drug abusers, and misfits and that it will help them become
normal productive members of society.
3) State how you like your job and not because it's "filled with fat,
stupid, lazy people."
4) State that you have disinteresting (aka boring) bio.
5) (Especially great for us VTES players) Explain how you worked for a
CCG company, made a great game, and still managed to run the company
out of money.
6) Describe (even in jest) WotC as the "evil titan that crushed the
gaming industry" when thanks to MTG and their relaunch of D&D 3.0 they
probably *saved* it.
7) Describe one of your co-workers (Bob Abramowitz) as "dumb" and "not
knowing any better" (and seemingly not in jest).
Wow. I can't believe I made it to the end.
- Christian
suoli
> Uh wow... my opinion of him has fallen even less. Let's review. You
> have a room full of WoD fans...
>
> 1) Explain how you're an "idiot" and that you hated WoD.
> 2) Give some patronizing cock-and-bull story about how you found your
> love of WoD because of your epiphany that it's a magnet for social
> outcasts, drug abusers, and misfits and that it will help them become
> normal productive members of society.
> 3) State how you like your job and not because it's "filled with fat,
> stupid, lazy people."
> 4) State that you have disinteresting (aka boring) bio.
> 5) (Especially great for us VTES players) Explain how you worked for a
> CCG company, made a great game, and still managed to run the company
> out of money.
> 6) Describe (even in jest) WotC as the "evil titan that crushed the
> gaming industry" when thanks to MTG and their relaunch of D&D 3.0 they
> probably *saved* it.
> 7) Describe one of your co-workers (Bob Abramowitz) as "dumb" and "not
> knowing any better" (and seemingly not in jest).
>
> Wow. I can't believe I made it to the end.
>
> - Christian
And he wears a white shirt. You know who else preferred white? That's
right. I'm not saying that Ryan S. Dancey is definitely one of
Hitler's secret clones but I think the lack of attempts to dispute
this fact speaks for itself.
In other news: Did Ryan S. Dancey rape and murder a budding CCG in
1990?
_angst_
> 2) Give some patronizing cock-and-bull story about how you found your
> love of WoD because of your epiphany that it's a magnet for social
> outcasts, drug abusers, and misfits and that it will help them become
> normal productive members of society.
This part was one of the most revolting examples of being a <bleeeeep>
I've ever heard.
//Alex
Swedish NC
librarian
Ooh, ooh, I call Godwin's Law first!
best -
chris
Chris Berger
>
> In other news: Did Ryan S. Dancey rape and murder a budding CCG in
> 1990?
>
I'm not saying he did help Glenn Beck rape and murder a young girl in
1990 - in fact, I think that he probably didn't. But if he and Glenn
Beck didn't rape and murder a young girl in 1990, then why won't they
just come out and deny it?
librarian
> Ryan S. Dancey kills VTES again?
>
> You decide (last paragraph):
>
> http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25704
>
> Can you fill me in on the status of White Wolf, the physical game
> company CCP acquired in Atlanta?
>
> It's just an imprint... White Wolf used to have a fairly large staff.
> It doesn't anymore. It's focusing primarily on the World of Darkness
> RPG products. It's not doing some of the things it used to do; board
> games and other card games and things. The focus of the company [CCP]
> is on making MMOs and our legacy table top business is a legacy
> business.
Ryan Dancey says ridiculous stuff all the time. On the Game industry
forums, he is always saying stuff that gets everybody, mostly retailers,
up in arms. He really likes to say doom and gloom stuff about the end
of the game industry as we know it. That said, he does make people
think, and that can't be bad.
I would say that this "legacy" stuff is par for the course for Ryan.
best -
chris
Orpheus
"_angst_" <a...@student.chalmers.se> wrote in message
news:4667a3cb-8f60-4025...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 12, 4:11 pm, Christian <chrisi...@aol.com> wrote:
> 2) Give some patronizing cock-and-bull story about how you found your
> love of WoD because of your epiphany that it's a magnet for social
> outcasts, drug abusers, and misfits and that it will help them become
> normal productive members of society.
Yeah, and then they become fat and stupid people. Well, thanks a lot Ryan !!
But, uh, why do you introduce a part of your discourse with a tale of Robert
Johnson selling his soul to the devil ? Do you think it will help get the
misfits drug addicts satanists to your side ?
What a truckload of bull !!
Orpheus, fat dumb misfit drug outcast.
Reyda !
Right !
i can't understand the people in the room started to applause instead
of throwing rocks or sharp objects at him -_-
what a douchebag...