Frak the dom issue - what can be done about the quietus issue?
hugh.an...@gmail.com
weenies (through transfers) & heart being too broken, I thought i'd
step in and talk about what is clearly the most broken discpline in
the game - Quietus.
Evidence of brokeness:
1. NAC 08 was won by an assamite deck
2. Inflamed by this Matt Morgan went back in time an entire year. He
then spent an the next 12 months trying to win a a tournament with an
Assamite deck. After 12 months of no success he finally cracked on the
right deck in time to lend it to Ben Peal to win the NAC & start the
whole time travel thing again.
3. Matt's deck took time to get to the point where he felt he could
play it against mere mortals - this included reducing the qui cards to
8. Peal, on the verge of godhood, decided to remove 2 more
overpowered qui cards to give everyone else a better chance of
winning.
4. 10,000 Finnish players can't be wrong.
5. The Path of Blood website has been placed on the CIA watchlist as
'Promoting dangerous thoughts of agression'.
6. Ben Peal decided to break the discipline of obf by removing silly,
weak, inferior, dominate & adding quietus - the superior killing
discpline. This was in order to win - no nice guy business from
him.
7. The winners of the NAC & EC 08 used zero bounce cards in their
decks & only 3 Pentex subversions.
But 6 quietus cards.
See the link.
Fear them they hide in shadows.
acheronni...@gmail.com
hugh.an...@gmail.com
No fool quietus is broken! That is the link!
Blooded Sand
Do not speak to these lesser men who do not part the veils of mystery
to see the true power that is Quietus. They shall be enlightened in
time. Fools, scoundrels and wastrels, they try to use something as
underhanded and dishonourable as Dominate instead.
nikola...@gmail.com
Hahahah, great! I dont know if it was a misunderstanding or not, but
great.
Let me join in on this holy crusade! Quietus is obviously overpowered
and should be either nerfed into oblivion or banned altogether. I mean
a discipline that can burn almost ANY vampire at RANGE, can prevent
your vampires from gaining any blood, can send vampires into torpor
merely by taking an action (at +1 stealth!), has + bleed actions,
prevent people from blocking, prevent people from playing reactions,
gain permanent +bleed, gain permanent + intercept, and much, much,
MUCH more!
I think it is about time we do something about this threat to the
balance of the game.
Join us!
Blooded Sand
> can send vampires into torpor
> merely by taking an action (at +1 stealth!)
WTF? What card is this?
FVicentini
Steely Tenacity
Blooded Sand
Well, um, no. That is an enter combat card. This in no way, means,
fashion or form sends a vampire into torpor just by taking an action.
Qui is missing any form of anti S:CE. So this would need many more
supporting cards. It would also need those cards to be succesfully
landed. That will send a vampire to torpor.
Which means that, hooray, Qui is not broken after all! Yay!
witness1
I think he was talking about Songs of the Distant Vitae.
-witness1
FVicentini
entering combat with a minion with quietus is like waltzing with dead!
clearly broken diszipline. replace with hmm , some imbueds power plz?
or just nothing , assamites are fine without quietus anyway.
Salem
It happened to me once. My Sha-Ennu torpored my prey's Nizzam. And then
ate him on my turn. Then my grand-prey, who happened to be playing
weenie qui bleed, had a Songs of Distant vitae in hand (for bleeding at
stealth). But of course he sent Sha-Ennu to torpor instead.
Not cool!
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
hugh.an...@gmail.com
> Let me join in on this holy crusade! Quietus is obviously overpowered
> and should be either nerfed into oblivion or banned altogether. I mean
> a discipline that can burn almost ANY vampire at RANGE, can prevent
> your vampires from gaining any blood, can send vampires into torpor
> merely by taking an action (at +1 stealth!), has + bleed actions,
> prevent people from blocking, prevent people from playing reactions,
> gain permanent +bleed, gain permanent + intercept, and much, much,
> MUCH more!
Do not forget my willing disciple that quietus can burn vampires at
close range with blood agony or baal's bloody talons.
Only Nec, Pot, Ani, Pro, Vic, Tha, For can also do this. Clearly
this demonstrates how broken Quietus is.
O
Joscha
Do not forget they have a card that gives them +bleed OR the option to
burn an equipment OR a location on a minion. Is that versatile or what?
brandons...@yahoo.com
Sure, Quietus can do that, but can it burn both your vampire and it's
diablarist in the event that someone diablarizes your vampire(and has
the correct superior discipline)? Can it dodge with an additional
dodge? Does it give you +2 intercept vs someone diablarizing your
vampires? I thought not...
Brandon
Joscha
True, but it is THE Threat regardless. With the stunning additions you
listed it would be uberbroken.
Peter D Bakija
> Do not forget they have a card that gives them +bleed OR the option to
> burn an equipment OR a location on a minion. Is that versatile or what?
Not that I wish to derail this comedy fest, but that Loss gives you +2
bleed and/or the ability to burn someone's Assault Rifle or Secure
Haven actually is quite strong.
I mean, yeah, Quietus has *tons* of cards that are incredibly
craptackular to fuel the fires of humor, but Loss isn't really one of
them...
-Peter
Blooded Sand
Peter, please stop insulting teh uberness that is Immaculate Vitae....
Joscha
> On Jan 18, 5:29 am, Joscha <joscha.du...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > Do not forget they have a card that gives them +bleed OR the option to
> > burn an equipment OR a location on a minion. Is that versatile or what?
>
> Not that I wish to derail this comedy fest, but that Loss gives you +2
> bleed and/or the ability to burn someone's Assault Rifle or Secure
> Haven actually is quite strong.
Did I read 'actually' and 'quite'? Man, U B E R.
No really ... But wasn't it time they get a good card at last, making
the most dreaded clan in RPG dangerous in the card game? Even if it
still isn't something they can counter S:CE with (yes, I know Psyche!
But it is of little use for Quietuscombat, isn't it).
Blooded Sand
> Even if it
> still isn't something they can counter S:CE with (yes, I know Psyche!
> But it is of little use for Quietuscombat, isn't it).
Amen....
John P.
A proposed card that allows Psyche to help quietus combat:
Conserved Resources
Cost: 2 blood
Play before range is determined. Only 1 conserved Resources can be
played each combat.
Do not replace combat cards during this combat
[qui] At the end of combat retrieve one combat card you played (other
than this card) to your hand.
Though I do feel silly suggesting a card in a thread that claims
quietus is overpowered. Heck I feel silly for reading this thread.
John P
Winnipeg
[QUI] At the end of combat you may retrieve any/all combat cards you
played (other than this card) to your hand.
Blooded Sand
Well no, that would be kinda silly. Because in a Qui combat deck, i am
most likely gonna replace all those cards with Qui combat cards, which
I now have to discard, ending up in the same place. However, something
a la IG would be exactly what the doctor ordered
John P.
You missed the "Do not replace combat cards during this combat" line
Chris Berger
Terrible at (qui) - 2 blood and no replace all combat is a hell of a
lot to spend on an ability that is free in other circumstances
(Shroudsight, Art of Memory, Henry Taylor? - I think that's the right
vamp...). The (QUI) level was below your signature, and now that I've
clicked reply, I'm reading it, and it's a strong effect for a high
cost, but not sure it's worth it. Nor do I really understand why it's
a quietus card.
Got potential though. Another thought would be to get rid of the do
not replace and the 2 blood cost, leave the (qui) ability as is, and
make (QUI) - As above, but if the opposing minion ends combat as a
strike, instead move all cards you played this combat (including this
card) from your ashheap to your library (after combat ends) and
shuffle.
Jeff Kuta
How about this?
Conserve Resources
1 stealth Action
Quietus
1 blood
Put this card on the acting vampire. Any combat cards this vampire
plays are placed on this card instead of the ash heap. Remove from the
game all cards on this card during your untap phase.
qui: This vampire can burn 1 blood and remove a combat card from the
game to play it as if it were from your hand.
QUI: As above but without burning 1 blood.
Jeff
John P.
Cause we're in a quietus thread.. and their uber quietus combat
gets owned by S:CE, Not sure why QUI appeared below signature.
I hate google.
> Got potential though. Another thought would be to get rid of the do
> not replace and the 2 blood cost, leave the (qui) ability as is, and
> make (QUI) - As above, but if the opposing minion ends combat as a
> strike, instead move all cards you played this combat (including this
> card) from your ashheap to your library (after combat ends) and
> shuffle.
I like that better. But I would think that the (this card) would go to
the ash heap.
They spend 1 card avoiding all your combat, you used 1 card to
recycle all of your combat. Seems fair.
I'll be the first to admit I'm pretty crappy at balancing effects
though.
John P
Winnipeg
(hoping his post appears above his signature this time)
John P.
> How about this?
>
> Conserve Resources
> 1 stealth Action
> Quietus
> 1 blood
> Put this card on the acting vampire. Any combat cards this vampire
> plays are placed on this card instead of the ash heap. Remove from the
> game all cards on this card during your untap phase.
> qui: This vampire can burn 1 blood and remove a combat card from the
> game to play it as if it were from your hand.
> QUI: As above but without burning 1 blood.
>
> Jeff
So instead of a transient card to recycle used combat cards a
permanent card to enable each combat card to potentially be used
twice.
Makes the combats where the opponent does not S:CE a little
too nice for the assamite. A tariq multirush deck would love it as
the amaranth/taste would pick up the blood cost.
I prefer returning to hand or library in some way, but its another way
to go.
John P
Winnipeg
Chris Berger
>
> > Terrible at (qui) - 2 blood and no replace all combat is a hell of a
> > lot to spend on an ability that is free in other circumstances
> > (Shroudsight, Art of Memory, Henry Taylor? - I think that's the right
> > vamp...). The (QUI) level was below your signature, and now that I've
> > clicked reply, I'm reading it, and it's a strong effect for a high
> > cost, but not sure it's worth it. Nor do I really understand why it's
> > a quietus card.
>
> Cause we're in a quietus thread.. and their uber quietus combat
> gets owned by S:CE, Not sure why QUI appeared below signature.
> I hate google.
>
When I say "I don't really understand why it's a quietus card", I mean
that it doesn't necessarily seem like an ability that quietus would
have, and the name of the card "Conserved Resources" doesn't sound
like a quietus power... Now, the ability part could be fixed, because
you could certainly think of *some* rationale why quietus might able
to do this, and tie it in via the name of the card (like you could
rationalize a potence card that gives votes by calling it something
like "Voter Intimidation"... not that potence vote push is a good
idea). And I'm not necessarily picking on the name, because I know
you're just posting an idea, and the name is probably more of a
placeholder than anything else. But if the power doesn't necessarily
make sense without a name to tie it in theme-wise, and the name
describes the card's function but not any reason why it would go with
quietus, well.... ... that's all I'm saying.
Jeff Kuta
This card could be modified in many different ways to balance it more
properly. Could restrict it to "combat cards which require a
discipline" or "combat cards which cost 1 or more blood." You could
also make the inferior "remove from the game ... during your discard
phase" and the superior could be "during your untap phase." Perhaps
one combat card per combat could be saved similar to yours.
I think the permanent aspect of the action is actually key. Otherwise,
you're just planning for the S:CE trump contingency with yet another
combat card and still require a combat card to thwart it. Combat is
fairly card inefficient as it is so this makes it more manageable.
Retain the Quick Blood is what I used as a model. That card is not so
bad, but the problem is that eventually in a combat heavy deck (the
typical use for it), that you run out of library too fast and so
wasted one of several card slots on the action. I think in more cases
I'd rather have cards than blood.
Jeff
Ashur Tablets to the rescue!
Salem
Call it 'Rote Training in the Blood' then?
Your combat skills become such a part of your very vitae (using your
freaky [qui] skillz) that they can be recalled again and again by rote
without even needing to think about it.
Blooded Sand
Would still feel that the moving back into your library idea is far,
far better. And think it should only be for Qui cards played during
that combat.
So how about:
Memories in the Blood
+2 stealth action
2 Blood
qui: Put this card on this minion. During a combat this minion is
involved in, put all Quietus cards played by this minion on this card.
At the end of each round, move one card on this card back into your
library and discard the rest (shuffle afterwards).
QUI: As above, but move all Quietus cards.
Screw anti S:CE, that would be very nice....
Salem
what about pre-empting s:ce?
Spider sense
combat
[qui]
Play before range is determined. Your opponent may show you one of their
strike cards in their hand. If they do, they must declare it as their
initial strike this round if they are able. If they do not, they may not
play a strike card in the initial strike declaration phase this round.
[QUI] As above, and your initial strike this round cannot be dodged.
stops you wasting your good cards in a combat if you know he's going to
s:ce....and stops him s:ce if he wants to draw your good cards first.
Jeff Kuta
I just wish that the new aus/cel card Charismatic Aura in KoT were
slightly different. I like it a lot, but the Auspex requirement is
annoying for Assamites.
Still perhaps worth including in some decks, though I wish the
superior was more offensive than defensive.
Jeff
acheronni...@gmail.com
aus *PRE*, it's not celerity card at all Jeff.
James Coupe
>what about pre-empting s:ce?
>
>Spider sense
>combat
>[qui]
>Play before range is determined. Your opponent may show you one of
>their strike cards in their hand. If they do, they must declare it as
>their initial strike this round if they are able. If they do not, they
>may not play a strike card in the initial strike declaration phase this
>round.
>[QUI] As above, and your initial strike this round cannot be dodged.
I was thinking about this earlier, and was wondering if you could make
it slightly flavoursome and include some element of espionage / spying.
Best Laid Plans
Combat
Play before range is determined in a combat resulting from a
successful action by this minion. A vampire can play only one Only
one Best Laid Plans per combat.
[qui] Choose one strike card in the opponent's ash heap. Once during
this combat, if the opponent plays that card, this minion can
burn a blood to cancel it (no cost is paid by the opponent).
[QUI] As [qui] above, but choose two strike cards (or three if this
action came from a contract card), and this vampire can cancel each of
those cards once.
It seemed somehow more in keeping with plotted assassination.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Blooded Sand
> [QUI] As [qui] above, but choose two strike cards (or three if this
> action came from a contract card), and this vampire can cancel each of
> those cards once.
So the Ven deck I am busy rushing, which only packs Majesty, gets a
free ride at QUI from this card as they only have the one strike card?
And it costs blood to burn to cancel, in a discipline where 90% of
combat cards costs blood?
This is not aimed at you James, more in general. What exactly is the
problem with making an anti-S:CE card on par with IG? Why are people
forever coming up with cards that are less effective?
James Coupe
>On Jan 22, 12:57 am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
>> [QUI] As [qui] above, but choose two strike cards (or three if this
>> action came from a contract card), and this vampire can cancel each of
>> those cards once.
>
>So the Ven deck I am busy rushing, which only packs Majesty, gets a
>free ride at QUI from this card as they only have the one strike card?
Only if you're so unthinkably stupid as to play it at QUI instead of
qui.
You do know that you're allowed to use the inferior, even if you have
superior, yes?
Blooded Sand
So I have to pay a blood, to allow him to cycle into his second
majesty? Would be better if at QUI, I may cancel the same strike card
twice, but with no blood cost