Setites after LotN and for newbies
Malkuth
next week, URL is:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_LordsOfTheNight
I also made some changes to the Assamites article from last week, and
generally, made some changes to the blog, thanks to Morgan Vening for
the suggestions.
Please mail feedback on the blog!
enjoy,
Aris
Malkuth
> I put up the Setites article on-line, I hope I can manage the Ravnos
> next week, URL is:
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_LordsOfTheNight
>
here is the corrected URL:
http://between-betwixt.blogspot.com/2007/10/setites-after-lotn.html
Sorry,
Aris
reyda
Really nice mate !! :D
Orpheus
> next week, URL is:
Just don't bother about the Giovanni, I have something in the oven... ;-)
--
Orpheus
--------------------
"Never Kill Again To Live Another Golden Day", the James Bond movie you'll
never see.
Orpheus
First, thanks for the now links colors, it is soooo much more readable than
the first article !!
I'll let alone the spelling or grammatical mistakes, but you might do well
to check it again. ;-)
"The new crypt cards offer more or less what we already had,
discipline-wise. Belle, Ahmose, Marla & Sisocharis are good and solid
weenies."
Yes, except that Siso has no Ser at all and inf Cel, which we'll use very
marginally if ever. So it's not a good FoS weenie in my book.
"Abdelsobek just begs to become an anarch (he's able to use 8 out of the 12
3-way cards) and he also has an ability similar to Mylan Horseed."
Except that he's not limited to 8+ caps as Mylan. It should also be noted
that he can Freak Drive, and therefore really give you one more acting
minion if you have the right combo in hand, rather than just give another
guy one more option.
"Halim is similar to Black Lotus, with superior dominate and but without
presence; he also bestows stealth on mummies while he is ready."
Yes. Also, lots of compatible FoS have Tha, and Dom / Obf / Tha isn't
unheard of either, so I'd say he could be seen in various decks, not all of
the clan.
"Renenet & Clea are solid mid-caps with all the in-clan disciplines."
Clea is also one of the (now) numerous FoS with Pot, one of the few with
POT. So she begs to be in G4-G5 Typhonic Beast decks.
"Ogwon offers another way to reduce opposing vampires' blood."
Not in any reliable way for a Temptation based deck, but it sure comes as a
bonus. What I like more about him, though, is his For for multi-acting.
"Arnulf has a very strong ability that aids blocking and coupled with his
auspex, offers the best chance the clan has in defending."
Absatively. He doesn't have many offensive options to punish the stealther,
but Cobra Fangs might be one ?
"Sundervere is a powerful bleeder (cardless upto 3, without permanents can
reach 7, just one below his capacity and Pulse or Heart 9!!!), has superior
auspex and he is red list, which translates as prime rush target for every
combat competent deck."
Yes. But solid enough vamp to be worth it, as Ambrogino Giovanni. Also
compatible with Seterpenre's base disciplines.
"Pentweret is funny because he has all of the Salubri disciplines at
inferior and from a serious perspective, a powerful anti-imbued ability
(remember that the Imbued are 0-cost allies)."
I don't think this is right, according various posts Imbued have a cost
equal to their starting capacity.
"Porphyrion is just bad design for two reasons; first he has an ability
related to a card not yet printed (Treaty of Laibach is going to be a
promo)"
Which doesn't mean it's not going to be great, so it might be bad publishing
strategies, but nothing allows us as yet to talk about bad design
"and second he would be a better addition to the Ravnos than his own clan
with CHI for OBF!"
Would he ? He has all the FoS disciplines at superior, plus For, plus CHI.
Obf isn't a Ravnos discipline. So he really is a good (if expensive) FoS,
who could fit nicely in Chi / Obf decks (although you have to find some way
to justify his elevated cost, if you only use these).
"Shemti looks totaly nuts in the artwork,"
Is that positive ? I sure hope so because, well... This is my face we're
talking about !! lol.
"but is otherwise completely uninteresting."
I have to disagree here. You know, seeing as he's "my" vamp, I had to look
for ideas. Well, he's certainly expensive, but he's the ONLY FoS with POT +
PRE, and one of very few with POT + SER. What does this mean ? Well, he's
obviously a Typhonic, err, Beast ; but he can also play superior Iron Glare
(ok, his 1 vote is a bummer but there are ways to give him votes) and he is
also the only existing vampire able to both recruit the rushing mummies and
to give them +2 strength, making War Ghouls out of them for the duration of
the action !! So, although he certainly could be better (2 votes and he'd be
my new star), he can find his uses for casual play. Which is good because
I'll have to play him now...
"Seterpenre has a weird and probably useless ability."
Might be. But he also has a huge discipline spread, and although he too
misses votes, I'm sure he can become the star of several decks. He can also
help Sundervere in his deflecting prowesses, and if you make a crypt with
another out-of-clan (For, Tha...) just 2 master skills in your deck will
make him the pillar of your strategy. Not bad at all, I'd say. Also, don't
forget he can recruit big Shamblings for your Khobar Towers...
"Last but not least, comes Nakhthorheb, who has the same ability as Eze,
untap during your minion phase, which just overwhelmingly powerful!"
Sure. Although Eze's votes and discipline spread make him more obvious for
multi-action decks. I guess Nakh will be mostly used for corruption + bleed
strategies, given his special.
"and if this is not enough corrupted minions can block him! oh he also has
+1 strength, but than again who cares ;) This guy must be in every deck that
uses his disciplines and the gretest minion is not below 4! namely all
setite decks!"
I fail to understand that last part, but sincerely, I wouldn't include a
10-Cap in every FoS deck "just because". Untapping is good only if you make
it worth it under NRA rule, meaning you have to include several action types
in your deck ; a straightforward bleed deck never should include him, and
there are better vamps for mummies decks. No, really, he's made for
corruption "+ something" decks. The good part of him having no title is that
he can become Anarch and play Reformations (but Revelation of Ecstasy is
good too, although tunnel effect). And Revelation of Desire would modify a
bleed action perfectly, so I guess I'd put him in a Revelations (Ecstasy +
Desire) deck.
Thanks for the article, if you make any other I'd like to have the text
posted in google, not only the link, for easier answering and commenting.
Orpheus
--
"All Hail the Lords of the Night !"
Orpheus
"Malkuth" <galama...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191718828.7...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Malkuth
> Ok, I have to comment the whole of the article...
>
> First, thanks for the now links colors, it is soooo much more readable than
> the first article !!
Live and learn, it's not like I am a web deseigner or anything.
> I'll let alone the spelling or grammatical mistakes, but you might do well
> to check it again. ;-)
I will, but was it that bad?
> "The new crypt cards offer more or less what we already had,
> discipline-wise. Belle, Ahmose, Marla & Sisocharis are good and solid
> weenies."
>
> Yes, except that Siso has no Ser at all and inf Cel, which we'll use very
> marginally if ever. So it's not a good FoS weenie in my book.
Still he is solid bleeder due to pre bleed action. He can also put in
spell of life. I will agree that he's the first to ditch from the
four.
> "Abdelsobek just begs to become an anarch (he's able to use 8 out of the 12
> 3-way cards) and he also has an ability similar to Mylan Horseed."
>
> Except that he's not limited to 8+ caps as Mylan. It should also be noted
> that he can Freak Drive, and therefore really give you one more acting
> minion if you have the right combo in hand, rather than just give another
> guy one more option.
That's why I said similar, not same. Agreed on the versatility, but he
cost 4 more pool!
> "Halim is similar to Black Lotus, with superior dominate and but without
> presence; he also bestows stealth on mummies while he is ready."
>
> Yes. Also, lots of compatible FoS have Tha, and Dom / Obf / Tha isn't
> unheard of either, so I'd say he could be seen in various decks, not all of
> the clan.
I absolutely agree.
> "Renenet & Clea are solid mid-caps with all the in-clan disciplines."
>
> Clea is also one of the (now) numerous FoS with Pot, one of the few with
> POT. So she begs to be in G4-G5 Typhonic Beast decks.
Numerous? They are four (Clea, Bupe, Cagliostro & Shemti)! Since you
will HAVE to multiact with Truth, you'll also need the Path, thus I do
not count the off-clan pot/ser vampires. In both cases the average
capacity is too high (7,5 and 7,875). The combo itself seems also kind
of weak, 2xTB deliver 3 damage and prevent 2, while TS+Superior Mettle
delivers 2, but prevents all at inferior (same blood cost) and is way
better at superior. Not to mention that for+pot crypt come at below 6
average capacity and multi-act via the cheaper freak drive.
> "Ogwon offers another way to reduce opposing vampires' blood."
>
> Not in any reliable way for a Temptation based deck, but it sure comes as a
> bonus. What I like more about him, though, is his For for multi-acting.
me too
> "Arnulf has a very strong ability that aids blocking and coupled with his
> auspex, offers the best chance the clan has in defending."
>
> Absatively. He doesn't have many offensive options to punish the stealther,
> but Cobra Fangs might be one ?
Why punish? He can control the game and avoid punishment via Mental
Maze and Majesty! The rest of your vampires/mummies/embraces can deal
with the offense of the deck. Plus with a reliable blocker you can
play all those burnable/stealable cards from AH/FN!!!
> "Sundervere is a powerful bleeder (cardless upto 3, without permanents can
> reach 7, just one below his capacity and Pulse or Heart 9!!!), has superior
> auspex and he is red list, which translates as prime rush target for every
> combat competent deck."
>
> Yes. But solid enough vamp to be worth it, as Ambrogino Giovanni.
Dunno ... I was playing with red list ravnos until recently and I had
to put back in my deck Illusions for combat defense!
> Also compatible with Seterpenre's base disciplines.
And with Arnulf (AUS, OBF/obf, PRE, SER)
> "Pentweret is funny because he has all of the Salubri disciplines at
> inferior and from a serious perspective, a powerful anti-imbued ability
> (remember that the Imbued are 0-cost allies)."
>
> I don't think this is right, according various posts Imbued have a cost
> equal to their starting capacity.
Me neither, but I took the Kindred Segragation as an example. Also
wander how corruption works against Imbued ...
> "Porphyrion is just bad design for two reasons; first he has an ability
> related to a card not yet printed (Treaty of Laibach is going to be a
> promo)"
>
> Which doesn't mean it's not going to be great, so it might be bad publishing
> strategies, but nothing allows us as yet to talk about bad design
I don't really think that there is a "publicing general" in WW, so
it's the game's designer-'s/s' job.
> "and second he would be a better addition to the Ravnos than his own clan
> with CHI for OBF!"
>
> Would he ? He has all the FoS disciplines at superior, plus For, plus CHI.
> Obf isn't a Ravnos discipline. So he really is a good (if expensive) FoS,
> who could fit nicely in Chi / Obf decks (although you have to find some way
> to justify his elevated cost, if you only use these).
In G4+5 I rather play the CHI for OBF/obf vampires, I will go in to
details why next week or the one after that.
> "Shemti looks totaly nuts in the artwork,"
>
> Is that positive ? I sure hope so because, well... This is my face we're
> talking about !! lol.
>
> "but is otherwise completely uninteresting."
>
> I have to disagree here. You know, seeing as he's "my" vamp, I had to look
> for ideas. Well, he's certainly expensive, but he's the ONLY FoS with POT +
> PRE, and one of very few with POT + SER. What does this mean ? Well, he's
> obviously a Typhonic, err, Beast ; but he can also play superior Iron Glare
> (ok, his 1 vote is a bummer but there are ways to give him votes) and he is
> also the only existing vampire able to both recruit the rushing mummies and
> to give them +2 strength, making War Ghouls out of them for the duration of
> the action !! So, although he certainly could be better (2 votes and he'd be
> my new star), he can find his uses for casual play. Which is good because
> I'll have to play him now...
For POT see above.
As for Iron Glare, dunno, could work, but certainly not as your main
strategy.
The mummy thing, though, seems very card intensive.
> "Seterpenre has a weird and probably useless ability."
>
> Might be. But he also has a huge discipline spread, and although he too
> misses votes, I'm sure he can become the star of several decks. He can also
> help Sundervere in his deflecting prowesses, and if you make a crypt with
> another out-of-clan (For, Tha...) just 2 master skills in your deck will
> make him the pillar of your strategy. Not bad at all, I'd say. Also, don't
> forget he can recruit big Shamblings for your Khobar Towers...
The last got me intrigued. I'll try it!
> "Last but not least, comes Nakhthorheb, who has the same ability as Eze,
> untap during your minion phase, which just overwhelmingly powerful!"
>
> Sure. Although Eze's votes and discipline spread make him more obvious for
> multi-action decks. I guess Nakh will be mostly used for corruption + bleed
> strategies, given his special.
>
> "and if this is not enough corrupted minions can block him! oh he also has
> +1 strength, but than again who cares ;) This guy must be in every deck that
> uses his disciplines and the gretest minion is not below 4! namely all
> setite decks!"
>
> I fail to understand that last part, but sincerely, I wouldn't include a
> 10-Cap in every FoS deck "just because".
Given the thin defenses of the clan, this guy is like two 5-caps with
all in-clan at superior. Thus it is pointless not to include him in
any deck with average below 4, since he is way better than any 5-cap
out there!
> Untapping is good only if you make
> it worth it under NRA rule, meaning you have to include several action types
> in your deck ; a straightforward bleed deck never should include him, and
> there are better vamps for mummies decks. No, really, he's made for
> corruption "+ something" decks.
Yes, tap+corrupt (RoE), then bleed with RoD for 4 or one if bounced,
is the obvious. But also Dream World, give stealth to low-caps/
embraces and then finish off with huge bleed. And a lot more with PRE/
SER it is certain that you can take advantage of NRA.
> The good part of him having no title is that
> he can become Anarch and play Reformations (but Revelation of Ecstasy is
> good too, although tunnel effect). And Revelation of Desire would modify a
> bleed action perfectly, so I guess I'd put him in a Revelations (Ecstasy +
> Desire) deck.
>
> Thanks for the article, if you make any other I'd like to have the text
> posted in google, not only the link, for easier answering and commenting.
>
> Orpheus
> --
> "All Hail the Lords of the Night !"
>
> Orpheus"Malkuth" <galamatisa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1191718828.7...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I put up the Setites article on-line, I hope I can manage the Ravnos
> > next week, URL is:
>
> >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_LordsOfTheNight
>
> > I also made some changes to the Assamites article from last week, and
> > generally, made some changes to the blog, thanks to Morgan Vening for
> > the suggestions.
>
> > Please mail feedback on the blog!
> > enjoy,
> > Aris
And I added a newbie deck for Assamites, but given the card choices it
is really weak, compared to what the other three clans can pack.
Orpheus
>> well
>> to check it again. ;-)
>
> I will, but was it that bad?
You know, everybody's a perfectionnist... ;-)
>> "Abdelsobek just begs to become an anarch (he's able to use 8 out of the
>> 12
>> 3-way cards) and he also has an ability similar to Mylan Horseed."
>>
>> Except that he's not limited to 8+ caps as Mylan. It should also be noted
>> that he can Freak Drive, and therefore really give you one more acting
>> minion if you have the right combo in hand, rather than just give another
>> guy one more option.
>
> That's why I said similar, not same. Agreed on the versatility, but he
> cost 4 more pool!
Sure ! But fortunately he has other uses.
>> "Renenet & Clea are solid mid-caps with all the in-clan disciplines."
>>
>> Clea is also one of the (now) numerous FoS with Pot, one of the few with
>> POT. So she begs to be in G4-G5 Typhonic Beast decks.
>
> Numerous? They are four (Clea, Bupe, Cagliostro & Shemti)!
I didn't limit that sentence to grouping, so there are quite a few. And
let's not forget the non-FoS with similar disciplines : in G4-G5 we also get
Maskini, Lukas, Nehemiah and Nangila Were (of course I wouldn't put them all
in a deck, but the options are there).
> Since you
> will HAVE to multiact with Truth,
I agree that it is a good option, but you don't HAVE to do anything.
Especially as you mentionned Mylan and Abdelsobek (with no Pot, I know).
> you'll also need the Path, thus I do
> not count the off-clan pot/ser vampires.
The Path is more important for the Beast itself IMO ! But there are other
ways to get blood back, so though I agree that it is the best option, it
isn't the only one available.
> In both cases the average
> capacity is too high (7,5 and 7,875). The combo itself seems also kind
> of weak, 2xTB deliver 3 damage and prevent 2, while TS+Superior Mettle
> delivers 2, but prevents all at inferior (same blood cost) and is way
> better at superior. Not to mention that for+pot crypt come at below 6
> average capacity and multi-act via the cheaper freak drive.
The setites do with what they have !! And they also have other useful
disciplines, as you well know. I've never said TB decks were the strongest
figthing options available, but if can work well enough. Also, if you've
seen Horrid Form decks, you know that they can give a whole lot more pain
than Pot/For decks, and will cycle much better as one cumulable card does it
all (while Torns don't stack and you won't be able to cycle your prevent
against non-fighters). So there is no perfect world, even in the darkness...
>> "Arnulf has a very strong ability that aids blocking and coupled with his
>> auspex, offers the best chance the clan has in defending."
>>
>> Absatively. He doesn't have many offensive options to punish the
>> stealther,
>> but Cobra Fangs might be one ?
>
> Why punish? He can control the game and avoid punishment via Mental
> Maze and Majesty!
Yes, he can. At least he can control your pred's actions, and sometimes your
prey's, no Eagle Sight for him yet. But I always prefer to inflict pain when
I block, it is so much more dissuasive !
> The rest of your vampires/mummies/embraces can deal
> with the offense of the deck. Plus with a reliable blocker you can
> play all those burnable/stealable cards from AH/FN!!!
Then you'll have to include a serious reaction module, because you expect
him to block whole armies, and he'll feel lonely out there... Bah, gotta try
it I guess.
>> "Sundervere is a powerful bleeder (cardless upto 3, without permanents
>> can
>> reach 7, just one below his capacity and Pulse or Heart 9!!!), has
>> superior
>> auspex and he is red list, which translates as prime rush target for
>> every
>> combat competent deck."
>>
>> Yes. But solid enough vamp to be worth it, as Ambrogino Giovanni.
>
> Dunno ... I was playing with red list ravnos until recently and I had
> to put back in my deck Illusions for combat defense!
3-4 Secure Haven can do the trick too. And Fighters usually have ways to
rush you anyway, so...
>> Also compatible with Seterpenre's base disciplines.
>
> And with Arnulf (AUS, OBF/obf, PRE, SER)
>
>> "Pentweret is funny because he has all of the Salubri disciplines at
>> inferior and from a serious perspective, a powerful anti-imbued ability
>> (remember that the Imbued are 0-cost allies)."
>>
>> I don't think this is right, according various posts Imbued have a cost
>> equal to their starting capacity.
>
> Me neither, but I took the Kindred Segragation as an example. Also
> wander how corruption works against Imbued ...
"cost of that ally", so an Imbued with 4 starting life would need 4
Corruption counters.
>> "Porphyrion is just bad design for two reasons; first he has an ability
>> related to a card not yet printed (Treaty of Laibach is going to be a
>> promo)"
>>
>> Which doesn't mean it's not going to be great, so it might be bad
>> publishing
>> strategies, but nothing allows us as yet to talk about bad design
>
> I don't really think that there is a "publicing general" in WW, so
> it's the game's designer-'s/s' job.
I wouldn't know about that.
>> "and second he would be a better addition to the Ravnos than his own clan
>> with CHI for OBF!"
>>
>> Would he ? He has all the FoS disciplines at superior, plus For, plus
>> CHI.
>> Obf isn't a Ravnos discipline. So he really is a good (if expensive) FoS,
>> who could fit nicely in Chi / Obf decks (although you have to find some
>> way
>> to justify his elevated cost, if you only use these).
>
> In G4+5 I rather play the CHI for OBF/obf vampires, I will go in to
> details why next week or the one after that.
Sure, there are options there. But Tatiana + Porphyrion putting Sensory Deps
to protect your FoS deck could work too... ;-)
1 card = +2 strength. Good enough for me.
>> "Seterpenre has a weird and probably useless ability."
>>
>> Might be. But he also has a huge discipline spread, and although he too
>> misses votes, I'm sure he can become the star of several decks. He can
>> also
>> help Sundervere in his deflecting prowesses, and if you make a crypt with
>> another out-of-clan (For, Tha...) just 2 master skills in your deck will
>> make him the pillar of your strategy. Not bad at all, I'd say. Also,
>> don't
>> forget he can recruit big Shamblings for your Khobar Towers...
>
> The last got me intrigued. I'll try it!
Lol. Ok ! :-)
>> "Last but not least, comes Nakhthorheb, who has the same ability as Eze,
>> untap during your minion phase, which just overwhelmingly powerful!"
>>
>> Sure. Although Eze's votes and discipline spread make him more obvious
>> for
>> multi-action decks. I guess Nakh will be mostly used for corruption +
>> bleed
>> strategies, given his special.
>>
>> "and if this is not enough corrupted minions can block him! oh he also
>> has
>> +1 strength, but than again who cares ;) This guy must be in every deck
>> that
>> uses his disciplines and the gretest minion is not below 4! namely all
>> setite decks!"
>>
>> I fail to understand that last part, but sincerely, I wouldn't include a
>> 10-Cap in every FoS deck "just because".
>
> Given the thin defenses of the clan, this guy is like two 5-caps with
> all in-clan at superior. Thus it is pointless not to include him in
> any deck with average below 4, since he is way better than any 5-cap
> out there!
I see. The difference is that 2 5-Caps will be able to bleed each for 5 or 6
(depending on the chosen cards), so that's why I said multi-action was
required to make him useful.
>> Untapping is good only if you make
>> it worth it under NRA rule, meaning you have to include several action
>> types
>> in your deck ; a straightforward bleed deck never should include him, and
>> there are better vamps for mummies decks. No, really, he's made for
>> corruption "+ something" decks.
>
> Yes, tap+corrupt (RoE), then bleed with RoD for 4 or one if bounced,
> is the obvious. But also Dream World, give stealth to low-caps/
> embraces and then finish off with huge bleed.
Agreed.
> And a lot more with PRE/
> SER it is certain that you can take advantage of NRA.
Another sentence I'm not sure I understand.
> And I added a newbie deck for Assamites, but given the card choices it
> is really weak, compared to what the other three clans can pack.
I'll check it out when I get the time. Oh, and comment the library cards if
I can too. But I'm working on the LoTN Necroletter, so... ;-)
Kevin M.
> ..., except that Siso has no Ser at all and inf Cel, which we'll use
> very marginally if ever. So it's not a good FoS weenie in my book.
So pre/obf is no good on a 4-cap? Interesting opinion. ;)
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Orpheus
>> very marginally if ever. So it's not a good FoS weenie in my book.
>
> So pre/obf is no good on a 4-cap? Interesting opinion. ;)
Yes, your opinion is interesting, because that's not what I said. ;-)
He's ok if you're looking for Obf/Pre weenies, but we were talking about FoS
right now, so I'd rather see him with Ser (like Nepata), or one of the
others at superior, or at 3-Cap without Ser.