News from the White Wolf homepage
The Lasombra
http://www.white-wolf.com/
http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=1185
Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays
SOLD OUT!!!!!
Posted: 2010-02-09
We have completely sold out of Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays in,
what could be, record time. White Wolf would like to thank LSJ and Ben
Peal for the stellar card choice and playtest/design of this set.
Go out and grab the boosters while they're hot!
-------------------------------------
You can still get starter displays through the normal distributors,
but definitely hit up your friendly local game store NOW if you want
some of these.
(I'm sold out as well.)
Carpe noctem.
The Lasombra
Your best source of V:TES information.
Blooded Sand
> News from the White Wolf homepagehttp://www.white-wolf.com/
Reprint availability/news?
Frederick Scott
news:74r3n55i9t9t4fpfi...@4ax.com...
> News from the White Wolf homepage
> http://www.white-wolf.com/
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=1185
>
> Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays
> SOLD OUT!!!!!
> Posted: 2010-02-09
>
> We have completely sold out of Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays in,
> what could be, record time. White Wolf would like to thank LSJ and Ben
> Peal for the stellar card choice and playtest/design of this set.
>
> Go out and grab the boosters while they're hot!
So the $64,000,000 question is: is there another printing planned?
One would think it could be justified, under the circumstances.
Fred
The Lasombra
>So the $64,000,000 question is: is there another printing planned?
Depends on demand from the distributors. They aren't sold out. (Some
of them, anyway.)
>One would think it could be justified, under the circumstances.
If there is demand from stores to distributors, then it would
certainly be possible.
If distributors over-purchased and there is no demand from stores,
then probably not.
simcof
Man this potentially sucks. Our main point of distribution down here
is having "difficulties" getting stock, I guess this is why.
Does anyone know if a non-base set has got a second print run before?
Aaron Connor
us who haven't been able to get our hands on any yet.
If there isn't a reprint or some increased availability made, it will
be the end of my card buying days as there is no way I will be paying
over inflated secondary market prices for an under printed run when
the demand, especially in light of the amount of pre-orders, was so
obviously high.
Aaron
Aeschere
before?
I am not sure about this. I am still hoping for a Bloodlines reprint.
It has been sold out for ages now and a lot of people are after some
boxes.
technobabble66
It will be VERY annoying if there is no reprint. Lots of people seem
to hv missed purchasing in time. Unless some suppliers are holding,
like, 100 odd boxes for a good laugh; then there 's probably going to
be a high demand for a second run of printing.
I will DEFINITELY not be paying inflated 2nd-hand prices for boxes.
Finally an awesome expansion to finally improve the 2nd rate bloodline
clans and save them from being wallpaper, and now we can't obtain
them. Grrrr...
Don't get me wrong - i'm not having a serious rant against WW. If they
estimate conservatively so they're not stuck with 5000 boxes noone
wants, that's fine; so long as they also plan for a likely reprint,
and announce asap that one is on its way (hint hint, nudge, nudge - an
announcement LSJ??).
Looking fwd to the booster opening frenzy when the cards are
obtainable again, and counting my Summon History's!!
Amenophobis
Starters are sold out. Boosters are still available.
Ector
How possibly this could happen? Some managers terribly underestimated
the demand?
I guess a lot of people are going to grab the remaining starters from
the stores that still have them in stock (as I did just today), and
then a lot of people will still lack Villeins, Eyes, T:Vs and other
good stuff :(
Though most active members of our playgroup will probably get the
starters they need, I'd still like to hear about the additional
printing.
Big Eye
>
> - Show quoted text -
All but three of the cards that are in the starters are still
available in various sets, KoT, LotN and so on...go buy those :)
xcver
If I were just to try and get the villeins (let alone the other cards)
from one starter I would have to buy a whole box of KoT so it may be
worthwile to wait a bit :)
Big Eye
>
> - Show quoted text -
You could always trade for the villeins now. If they only bought one
box, I'm sure they have a couple to spare :) I think there is
something like 10ish in a starter display?? More than enough :)
Peter D Bakija
> the demand?
That White Wolf has sold out of starters simply means that they sold
all the stock they have to distributors. Not that the distributors are
sold out. There are plenty of boxes of starters left for sale in
circulation. It means that demand is high and that distrubtors think
that they can sell a lot of them. So they ordered a lot of them,
relative to previous sets.
If you go to e-bay right now, you can get plenty of starters for
essentially retail price if you are worried.
-Peter
pallando
2 x Villein in each starter. 2 of each starter per box. Total of 16
Villein cards per starter box.
Kind regards,
pallando
Johannes Walch
> On Feb 10, 7:16 am, Ector <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote:
>> How possibly this could happen? Some managers terribly underestimated
>> the demand?
>
> That White Wolf has sold out of starters simply means that they sold
> all the stock they have to distributors. Not that the distributors are
> sold out. There are plenty of boxes of starters left for sale in
> circulation. It means that demand is high and that distrubtors think
> that they can sell a lot of them. So they ordered a lot of them,
> relative to previous sets.
Not entirely true. Being one of the largest V:TES distributors I can say
that I have my very last batch of Starters on the way and they will be
out in a week latest. OK, being very active we have a high throughput so
some backwater shop might still have stock but good luck hunting those down.
> If you go to e-bay right now, you can get plenty of starters for
> essentially retail price if you are worried.
I would think not for long, but we will see.
Johannes Walch
> How possibly this could happen? Some managers terribly underestimated
> the demand?
For previous expansions the Starters didn�t sell that well. Solid but
not like this one. OK, there are hot cards in this one so it could be
assumed that the demand is high. The demand for starters did even
surprise me.
Also let�s face it, card game player communities are whiny bitches and
you rather produce conservatively. They get easily upset by stuff you
probably even didn�t see coming. So rather sell out quickly with a
potential reprint than sitting on a big pile of boxes.
The Lasombra
> Does anyone know if a non-base set has got a second print run before?
Yes.
Bloodlines was printed multiple times.
The Lasombra
> If there isn't a reprint or some increased availability made, it will
> be the end of my card buying days
Really? You can't be bothered to buy from the primary market?
There are 18 distributors in the US alone. Your primary market
friendly local game store can order from them, as they are the ones
that bought the product.
> as there is no way I will be paying
> over inflated secondary market prices for an under printed run when
> the demand, especially in light of the amount of pre-orders, was so
> obviously high.
Why do you think pre-orders would have gotten to White Wolf in time
for them to change their printing order? (Seeing as they made the
order in August....)
For most sets I sell 1 starter per 2 boosters. For this set, I am
most commonly selling 3 starters per 4 boosters. The demand for
starters is over-whelming in comparison to normal.
Boosters are still well stocked everywhere.
The Lasombra
> > Does anyone know if a non-base set has got a second print run
> before?
Yes.
> I am not sure about this. I am still hoping for a Bloodlines reprint.
> It has been sold out for ages now and a lot of people are after some
> boxes.
Bloodlines was printed in 2001 and reprinted in 2003.
Twilight Rebellion was printed a second time in late 2008.
See also:
http://www.TheLasombra.com/lists/booster_distribution.txt
The Lasombra
> Ditto comments by simcof
> It will be VERY annoying if there is no reprint.
Over-react much?
> Lots of people seem to hv missed purchasing in time. Unless some suppliers are holding,
> like, 100 odd boxes for a good laugh;
A good laugh? No, try business as usual. There are 30+ distributors
that White Wolf sells to. They have purchased all that White Wolf
has. The distributors are not sold out. (excepting Walch&Nusser and
myself, anyway.)
See also:
http://www.white-wolf.com/retailerinfo/DistributorList.php
> then there 's probably going to
> be a high demand for a second run of printing.
Possibly so.
Go order boxes from a friendly local game store that buys from one of
the distributors listed above if you want the cards.
> I will DEFINITELY not be paying inflated 2nd-hand prices for boxes.
Right.
Buy from your friendly local game store.
> Finally an awesome expansion to finally improve the 2nd rate bloodline
> clans and save them from being wallpaper, and now we can't obtain
> them. Grrrr...
Are you on crack? The set is widely available.
> Don't get me wrong - i'm not having a serious rant against WW. If they
> estimate conservatively so they're not stuck with 5000 boxes noone
> wants, that's fine; so long as they also plan for a likely reprint,
They will start making plans for a reprint when there is demand for a
reprint from the distributors at the link above.
> and announce asap that one is on its way (hint hint, nudge, nudge - an
> announcement LSJ??).
LSJ isn't responsible for that decision, that would be a marketing
decision. See also: Oscar Garza.
> Looking fwd to the booster opening frenzy when the cards are
> obtainable again, and counting my Summon History's!!
Boosters are available now and have not been in any danger of sell
out.
Would you kindly go back and actually read the words in the
announcement?
The Lasombra
> How possibly this could happen?
Ask the 30+ distributors that purchased product.
> Some managers terribly underestimated the demand?
Not at all. I fear that some distributors have greatly over-estimated
demand and will be sitting on it for a while.
> I guess a lot of people are going to grab the remaining starters from
> the stores that still have them in stock (as I did just today),
I do hope so! Buy from friendly local game stores today!
> and then a lot of people will still lack Villeins, Eyes, T:Vs and other
> good stuff :(
Nope. The 30+ distributors still have product. It is only White Wolf
that is sold out.
> Though most active members of our playgroup will probably get the
> starters they need, I'd still like to hear about the additional
> printing.
When there is demand from the distributors, you could expect a reprint
decision.
quickbeam
> The Lasombra wrote:
> > News from the White Wolf homepage
> >http://www.white-wolf.com/
>
> >http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=1185
>
> > Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays
> > SOLD OUT!!!!!
> > Posted: 2010-02-09
>
> > We have completely sold out of Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays in,
> > what could be, record time. White Wolf would like to thank LSJ and Ben
> > Peal for the stellar card choice and playtest/design of this set.
>
> > Go out and grab the boosters while they're hot!
>
> > -------------------------------------
>
> > You can still get starter displays through the normal distributors,
> > but definitely hit up your friendly local game store NOW if you want
> > some of these.
>
> > (I'm sold out as well.)
>
> > Carpe noctem.
>
> > The Lasombra
>
> >http://www.TheLasombra.com
>
> > Your best source of V:TES information.
>
> How possibly this could happen? Some managers terribly underestimated
> the demand?
Because these starters were designed differently than previous starter
decks. Villein alone probably accounted for the rush, but there are
other notable cards in there (Deflection, Shroud of Absence, Freak
Drive) that are hard to find, or desired in multiples. Accurately
estimating the demand for what is essentially a new type of product
(awesome starters, as opposed to the previous decent starters) was
hard enough to do that it got fumbled. People make mistakes.
> I guess a lot of people are going to grab the remaining starters from
> the stores that still have them in stock (as I did just today), and
> then a lot of people will still lack Villeins, Eyes, T:Vs and other
> good stuff :(
> Though most active members of our playgroup will probably get the
> starters they need, I'd still like to hear about the additional
> printing.
Just because the first print sold out super fast doesn't mean that
demand will remain high. It is possible that *most* of the folks who
wanted starters got them, or that the remaining boxes on the market
will satisfy most of the remaining demand. V:TES seems to be a
boutique game, with not a lot of capital investment from CCP. Running
off a second print run of starters might screw up their profit ratios
if the second run didn't sell as well as the first run.
Take heart; Villein, Eyes of Argus, and Deep Song will probably get
reprinted again. Even if you can't get ahold of a box of starters,
you still have access to the minions and the new cards. More Villeins
and Target Vitals floating around means that they'll be easier to
trade for.
-dc
At least they didn't reprint Pentex, so there is still time to ban it.
Ector
The Lasombra wrote:
> On Feb 10, 7:16 am, Ector wrote:
> > How possibly this could happen?
>
> Ask the 30+ distributors that purchased product.
>
> > Some managers terribly underestimated the demand?
>
> Not at all. I fear that some distributors have greatly over-estimated
> demand and will be sitting on it for a while.
That isn't good for us. Most distributors don't send to Belarus or
have too expensive delivery :(
> > I guess a lot of people are going to grab the remaining starters from
> > the stores that still have them in stock (as I did just today),
>
> I do hope so! Buy from friendly local game stores today!
There are none, alas.
> > and then a lot of people will still lack Villeins, Eyes, T:Vs and other
> > good stuff :(
>
> Nope. The 30+ distributors still have product. It is only White Wolf
> that is sold out.
Only White Wolf, Walsh & Nusser and you. And Potomac. That effectively
cuts off all our options except for CCGArmory, which I've used today.
> > Though most active members of our playgroup will probably get the
> > starters they need, I'd still like to hear about the additional
> > printing.
>
> When there is demand from the distributors, you could expect a reprint
> decision.
Hope there will be a demand from the distributors, then.
Kevin M.
> Bloodlines was printed in 2001 and reprinted in 2003.
> Twilight Rebellion was printed a second time in late 2008.
>
> See also:
> http://www.TheLasombra.com/lists/booster_distribution.txt
Sabbat War was also reprinted TWICE and I think that
Final Nights was reprinted once, also.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
librarian
> News from the White Wolf homepage
> http://www.white-wolf.com/
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/index.php?line=news&articleid=1185
>
> Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays
> SOLD OUT!!!!!
> Posted: 2010-02-09
>
> We have completely sold out of Heirs to the Blood Starter Displays in,
> what could be, record time. White Wolf would like to thank LSJ and Ben
> Peal for the stellar card choice and playtest/design of this set.
>
> Go out and grab the boosters while they're hot!
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> You can still get starter displays through the normal distributors,
> but definitely hit up your friendly local game store NOW if you want
> some of these.
>
> (I'm sold out as well.)
>
I am assuming this is due to the Villeins.
best -
chris
librarian
> Ector schrieb:
>> How possibly this could happen? Some managers terribly underestimated
>> the demand?
>
. So rather sell out quickly with a
> potential reprint than sitting on a big pile of boxes.
Exactly.
best -
chris
librarian
>
> Just because the first print sold out super fast doesn't mean that
> demand will remain high. It is possible that *most* of the folks who
> wanted starters got them,
I won't be buying anymore starters. I think that is the
case for most folks who received their shipments already. I
know have 28-30 Villeins, enough I guess for now.
best -
chris
Frederick Scott
"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1e14n5pqak3kfm96c...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:02:59 -0700, "Frederick Scott" wrote:
>
>>So the $64,000,000 question is: is there another printing planned?
>
> Depends on demand from the distributors. They aren't sold out. (Some
> of them, anyway.)
Thinking about your answer, I'm curious if you really think there's a
big stash of them sitting around at the various distributors or a few
select distributors? I mean, _you're_ sold out already - isn't that an
unusual sign? Add to this the sign that White Wolf sold out of their stock
for distributors and it seems quite likely that HttB precons have basically
proven to be vastly underprinted. Alternative possibilities exist
certainly, but strike me as being kind of unlikely: say, one or more
distributors invested in a huge stock of them and are now sitting on
lots and lots of product, thus White Wolf sold out _very_ quickly and
that distributor (those distributors) won't sell out for a long time?
Possible, I suppose. But I can't imagine why anyone would do something
like that on _this_ particular expansion, as opposed to earlier ones.
>>One would think it could be justified, under the circumstances.
>
> If there is demand from stores to distributors, then it would
> certainly be possible.
>
> If distributors over-purchased and there is no demand from stores,
> then probably not.
I believe the print run of other expansions' precons have been stocked
at White Wolf for years in many cases. It's just very hard to believe
that the latter scenario will prove to describe reality. Not when WW
releases an expansion of February 3rd and announces precons out of stock
on February 9th - of the same year.
Fred
Frederick Scott
news:f7ceb826-fd3e-4726...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 10, 7:16 am, Ector wrote:
> > How possibly this could happen?
>
> Ask the 30+ distributors that purchased product.
>
> > Some managers terribly underestimated the demand?
>
> Not at all. I fear that some distributors have greatly over-estimated
> demand and will be sitting on it for a while.
Why would anyone over-estimate demand on _this_ expansion? As opposed to
any other expansion?
In any case, even if your prediction proves true, I'd be really skepical
about the second thing. If White Wolf doesn't reprint, then:
1) A limited number of distributors are sitting on the only available
product. That strikes me as good for them. HttB precons are no longer
a commodity (or not as much of one, anyway) and, to some effect,
monopoly pricing can take over. Profit, profit, profit...
2) A "shortage" mentality always enhances demand. When players
experience their usual suppliers (like you) not being able to get them
what they want, this shocks their usual thinking about what they're
willing to pay to get them. The concept of "shop around" tends to get
forgotten in such a market. This, in turn, may actually cause the
available stocks of precons to get snapped up that much faster -
depending on how hard such stocks are to find. It becomes a self-
reinforcing effect.
> > I guess a lot of people are going to grab the remaining starters from
> > the stores that still have them in stock (as I did just today),
> > and then a lot of people will still lack Villeins, Eyes, T:Vs and other
> > good stuff :(
>
> Nope. The 30+ distributors still have product. It is only White Wolf
> that is sold out.
But for how long? "Get 'em before the hoarders do!"
Fred
Blooded Sand
What would be the minimum required number to be able to run a
bloodlines reprint run?
anyone know?
cos i never bought enough originally, and would love to buy some
now....
Frederick Scott
news:hkusd7$eia$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> The Lasombra wrote:
>> You can still get starter displays through the normal distributors,
>> but definitely hit up your friendly local game store NOW if you want
>> some of these.
>>
>> (I'm sold out as well.)
>>
>
> I am assuming this is due to the Villeins.
That probably has a lot to do with it. But also the Bloodlines reprints
people want:
Blessing of the Name
Defender of the Haven
Soul of the Earth
Hag's Wrinkles
Blissful Agony
Rock Cat
Shroud of Absence
...are just the tip of the iceberg. Some of these got reprinted in
Legacy of Blood but in a "super-rare" format. Shroud didn't get
reprinted at all until now. There are other, less rare examples (like
Create Gargoyle, which was only a U2 in Bloodlines but still super-rare
in LoB) that I'm not even mentioning. And three Target Vitals in the
Salubri Antitribu precon is a very high demand card, as well.
I'm not saying anyone should have necessarily seen this coming. On
the other hand, it doesn't surprise that much in retrospect, either.
Fred
squidalot
out so quickly compared to previous times' is a little pointless
without being able to compare print runs to previosu times.
I think Jeff;s 1-2 ratio now moving to 3-4 is the most useful bit of
real 'wow that is a different ratio than usual so would explain it'
data
just wait and hope for re-prints or play blood dolls instead of minion
taps...
Teeka
> Being one of the largest V:TES distributors I can say
> that I have my very last batch of Starters on the way and they will be
> out in a week latest.
Uhm, I have a pending order, including a set of starters, which you
stated would be sent as soon as you restock. Am I still going to
recieve them?
The Lasombra
>What would be the minimum required number to be able to run a
>bloodlines reprint run?
This would be almost exactly the same number as required for a new set
or for a translation set. (As they would likely need to redo the
layout not having kept the printable files for the last 7+ years.)
>anyone know?
Oscar Garza.
Email him directly with the quantity (in thousand boxes) that you are
willing to buy.
>cos i never bought enough originally, and would love to buy some
>now....
Legacies of Blood is widely available. Make the substitutions that
you can.
Frederick Scott
news:4e75d252-d222-4065...@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> Anyway most of this conjecture of 'isn't it wierd that WW would sell
> out so quickly compared to previous times' is a little pointless
> without being able to compare print runs to previosu times.
Not really. Jeff is positing that it's only WW whose sold out and
that it's quite possible that distributors have a lot of stock in
hand and could last a long time selling that stock. I'll grant, I'm a
layman here, but based the experience I've had with early manuafacturer
sell-outs in the past (MtG Legends being the absolute classic), I would
say that such a strange scenario would be unprecedented in _my_ memory.
Can anyone blame me for being skeptical?
> I think Jeff;s 1-2 ratio now moving to 3-4 is the most useful bit of
> real 'wow that is a different ratio than usual so would explain it'
> data
You or Jeff will have clarify this for me. I have no idea what you're
talking about. "1-2 ratio"? "3-4"? Explain?
> just wait and hope for re-prints or play blood dolls instead of minion
> taps...
Indeed: I'm suspicious that's exactly what some might be doing soon.
The point being, that it wouldn't be a good thing. Now, *waiting* (as
opposed to "hoping") for reprints wouldn't be so bad. Hence, my
comments in this thread.
Fred
The Lasombra
>Thinking about your answer, I'm curious if you really think there's a
>big stash of them sitting around at the various distributors or a few
>select distributors?
What do you mean by 'big stash'?
If all 30+ distributors have 30 on hand, that's 900+ boxes, which
could take days to sell out to game stores or it could take months.
Its still 1/4 to 1/3 of a print run of starter boxes.
Useful estimate: Total active tournament players in last calendar
year * 0.5 = number of boxes it is appropriate/safe to print.
Perhap .4 or .3 when "the economy is in the dumps".
The Lasombra
>Most distributors don't send to Belarus or
>have too expensive delivery :(
Those are retailers, not distributors.
Distributors only sell to game stores, they aren't selling to the
general public. Don't be confused by Potomac's name, they aren't a
distributor.
The Lasombra
>You or Jeff will have clarify this for me. I have no idea what you're
>talking about. "1-2 ratio"? "3-4"? Explain?
With prior sets, my orders have been 1 starter and 2 booster boxes.
Or, also commonly 1 starter and 3 booster boxes.
With this set, the ratio is not 1s/2b, it is almost exclusively 3/4
and higher. I sold to one playgroup that bought 21s and 24b.
Frederick Scott
"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:pnf6n554rluhuc85e...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:21:51 -0700, "Frederick Scott" wrote:
>
>>Thinking about your answer, I'm curious if you really think there's a
>>big stash of them sitting around at the various distributors or a few
>>select distributors?
>
> What do you mean by 'big stash'?
I'm a player so I look at things from a player's point of view.
So sufficient supply, from my point of view, means "readily availabe /
not hard to find / commodity (as opposed to premium) pricing on the
product I can get". Likewise, I want my singles dealers to have those
advantages to singles pricing doesn't reflect a shortage and I'm not
in ordinate competition with lots of other players for bulk cards or
singles.
> If all 30+ distributors have 30 on hand, that's 900+ boxes, which
> could take days to sell out to game stores or it could take months.
Sure - assuming 30+ distributors still have stock. I know at least
one who doesn't, counting you.
Checking Potomac Distribution...they've removed both Heirs to the
Blood precons _and_ boosters! There's no explanation, including on
their front page "News" section nor in their blog. They do mention
that they're closed for processing orders today due to a snow storm
in the Washington, DC area.
All Star Trading Cards's website states that "V:TES Heirs to the Blood
is in stock and now shipping". However, that entry is dated February
1st, 2010 and, if you follow the link, there's no place to order the
precons, only the boosters.
Of course, both of these developments might reflect distributors
wanting to pull back and investigate how short the supply is before
repricing their stock, I don't know. But even so, such things are
still not good for players who assumed they would have time to think
about how many cards they wanted to order before placing their orders.
It may not be anyone's fault. But I don't think you can blame such
players for being upset.
Fred
Blooded Sand
Um, vampires mostly, but some cards too. they were not all reprinted
in legacies.
The Lasombra
>Sure - assuming 30+ distributors still have stock. I know at least
>one who doesn't, counting you.
I'm not a distributor.
Potomac is not a distributor.
Walch & Nusser is not among the 30+ distributors mentioned.
The distributors only sell to stores, not directly to customers.
You've pointed out a number of retail companies that are sold out.
Put in an order thru your friendly local game store and the
distributors will clamor for more. At that point, WW can make an
intelligent decision about whether or not to reprint and how much and
when.
Juggernaut1981
Yeah, basically your seller, needs to talk to the person they bought
it from, who originally bought it from WW... then WW has to decide
"Can we sell out an entire print run?"
Frederick Scott
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:45:09 -0700, "Frederick Scott" wrote:
>
>>Sure - assuming 30+ distributors still have stock. I know at least
>>one who doesn't, counting you.
>
> I'm not a distributor.
> Potomac is not a distributor.
> Walch & Nusser is not among the 30+ distributors mentioned.
>
> The distributors only sell to stores, not directly to customers.
Sure, distinction noted. I stand corrected.
> You've pointed out a number of retail companies that are sold out.
>
> Put in an order thru your friendly local game store and the
> distributors will clamor for more. At that point, WW can make an
> intelligent decision about whether or not to reprint and how much and
> when.
While outfits like you and Potomac may not be distributors, you're also
not local game stores, either. Let's not pretend there's no distinction
and - while I wouldn't want this thread to devolve into another
"FLGS vs. internet sales" flamefest - I don't think we should pretend
everything's hunky dory and that a nearby FLGS will solve everybody's
problem, either. For one thing, an internet retailer selling at
commodity prices vs. an FLGS represents a saving of 25% or more (in
America; no idea what implications it has elsewhere). Getting 25%
less product for your money is not going to be a pleasing prospect for
players used to ordering from the internet. I suspect there's also
issues with how secure players can feel about their orders through a
small-time brick-and-mortar storefront who has little buying power and
often little information about what's going on out there in the supply
chain.
I appreciate the distinction you're making between WW being sold out
and the entire supply line being sold out of product. However, I would
say that if the high volume internet retailers are not selling, I'd
question the viability of existing sources of supply beyond the extreme
short term. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe tomorrow Potomac and All-Star
will come back online with basically unchanged prices and everything will
be fine for the foreseeable future. But I still say no one can blame me
for being skeptical about this.
Fred
The Lasombra
> I still say no one can blame me
>for being skeptical about this.
You expected it to take less than 2 business days for a $100,000
decision to be made? Even if WW had perfect information about demand,
that wouldn't enable them to magically know and negotiate the time and
price of reprinting the starters. Give the powers that be a moment to
find out what's going on in the trenches (and hear from their direct
customers, the distributors) before condemning their lack of
announcement.
Will an announcement of reprinting today stifle current sales? If you
know you have to wait until April for starters are you going to delay
your booster box purchase? Perhaps its better to let the waters
settle a bit before making that announcement.
Buy some Heirs to the Blood from your local game stores!
:>
Frederick Scott
"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:13p6n5t3n2a1uhs1d...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:48:45 -0700, "Frederick Scott" wrote:
>
>> I still say no one can blame me
>>for being skeptical about this.
>
> You expected it to take less than 2 business days for a $100,000
> decision to be made? Even if WW had perfect information about demand,
> that wouldn't enable them to magically know and negotiate the time and
> price of reprinting the starters. Give the powers that be a moment to
> find out what's going on in the trenches (and hear from their direct
> customers, the distributors) before condemning their lack of
> announcement.
>
> Will an announcement of reprinting today stifle current sales? If you
> know you have to wait until April for starters are you going to delay
> your booster box purchase? Perhaps its better to let the waters
> settle a bit before making that announcement.
Absolutely! Everything you just said, I totally agree. None the less,
I feel it's fair to raise for players to raise the question immediately
even if, as you say, we can't necessarily expect an answer immediately.
Asking the question is one of the ways the demand for more product is
expressed. If we all just stood around and responded, like, "White Wolf
is out of Heirs to the Blood?....Oh, well..." - then the people who make
these decisions might wonder if there's much more demand.
> Buy some Heirs to the Blood from your local game stores!
>
> :>
All, right. Fair enough.
Fred
Aaron Connor
> Really? You can't be bothered to buy from the primary market?
> There are 18 distributors in the US alone. Your primary market
> friendly local game store can order from them, as they are the ones
> that bought the product.
There is no primary market where I live. In South Australia we have no
local game store that supports V:tES, buying them regularly. I did
have one game store that was planning on getting a Starter and Booster
display to sell in store because of our continual prompting and
support of the game, but they were planning on ordering from Potomac
within the next week. That was until I informed him today it was sold
out. Additionally there is only one White Wolf distributor in all
Australia, that is Walrus and Carpenter and they are also barren (most
likely because they ordered hardly any in the first place.) White Wolf
refuses to allow any other company to be direct wholesale distributors
for them in Australia despite the dismal lip service that Walrus and
Carpenter provide.
> Why do you think pre-orders would have gotten to White Wolf in time
> for them to change their printing order? (Seeing as they made the
> order in August....)
Whatever the printing error was that delayed the set was an
opportunity to review sales demand and increase the order. For the
Starter Displays to sell out so fast means that this either not
apparent at the time or not looked at.
> For most sets I sell 1 starter per 2 boosters. For this set, I am
> most commonly selling 3 starters per 4 boosters. The demand for
> starters is over-whelming in comparison to normal.
>
> Boosters are still well stocked everywhere.
Rightly so the Starters are in demand. Starters represent much better
value than boosters, these excellently designed and desired cards
included version make it even more so. The set distribution order of
the rares etc. within the print run makes booster boxes even less
desirable. Not to say that I wouldn't be getting my fair share of
Boosters as long as I had access to the Starters that go with them
Dragar
Here in Western Australia our one store is awaiting receipt early next
week of its one each Starter Display and Booster Display.. I'll be
checking each day so that I don't miss out on the only starters
available in the entire state :(
The main retailer I order online from, Milsims, was already out of
stock on all HTTB when I checked them several days ago
Aaron Connor
> Here in Western Australia our one store is awaiting receipt early next
> week of its one each Starter Display and Booster Display.. I'll be
> checking each day so that I don't miss out on the only starters
> available in the entire state :(
>
> The main retailer I order online from, Milsims, was already out of
> stock on all HTTB when I checked them several days ago
Milsims stated back on the 11/11/2009 and I quote,
"All VTES Displays, and Launch Kits MUST be Pre-Ordered.
We will not be reordering this set after Release."
Milsims aren't local either, they are in Melbourne, Victoria and are
bricks and mortar. This is the type of support we receive in
Australia.
At a price of $152 for a Booster Display and $114 for a Starter
Display, supposedly discounted by 5% for our 'strong' Aussie dollar
which at the time those prices were given was almost at parity with
the US, excluding shipping, you can perhaps understand why the
majority of purchasers choose to buy from the US directly whenever
possible. Even with exorbitant shipping All-Star Trading charges
(double what Lasombra charges!) it still works out substantially
cheaper.
The news that online stores, namely Potomac and Lasombra are sold out
so early basically means, at least in my neck of the woods, that we
simply will not have access to HttB Starters. Or I guess I can pay 2
or 3 times retail on the secondary market via eBay.
For what looks like such a good set it really leaves a sour taste in
the mouth and only serves to widens the divide between the have and
have not's even further. People talk about new players not having
Parity Shifts and the like versus the older players, well welcome to
the new disparity, Villeins, Target Vitals, Eyes of Argus in abundance
for the lucky few.
Not happy Jan!
Johannes Walch
Yes. All pending order will be filled, as well as future orders. We will
disable the products once they are gone.
Johannes Walch
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:45:09 -0700, "Frederick Scott" wrote:
>
>> Sure - assuming 30+ distributors still have stock. I know at least
>> one who doesn't, counting you.
>
> I'm not a distributor.
> Potomac is not a distributor.
> Walch & Nusser is not among the 30+ distributors mentioned.
True. But I know a few of those 30+ and none of them has more than 5
boxes of a single V:TES product in stock. Also not true by the way that
those companies don�t sell to end customers. I know several of them who do.
Teeka
Phew, thanks. Had a little burst of panic there. :-)
The Lasombra
> >> Sure - assuming 30+ distributors still have stock. I know at least
> >> one who doesn't, counting you.
> > I'm not a distributor.
> > Potomac is not a distributor.
> > Walch & Nusser is not among the 30+ distributors mentioned.
> True. But I know a few of those 30+ and none of them has more than 5
> boxes of a single V:TES product in stock. Also not true by the way that
> those companies don´t sell to end customers. I know several of them who do.
So, the actual information you want to pass on to Fred and similar
interested parties, is that when they attempt to buy cards from
friendly local game stores, they will immediately pass that interest
on to the distributors, who will immediately pass that interest on to
White Wolf.
If you (the player) want WW to reprint Heirs to the Blood starters,
place an order thru a friendly local game store NOW!
(i.e. Yes, I know the Philippines "distributor" is actually a retail
store. Some of the "distributors" are mis-represented and there are a
number of actual distributors that White Wolf sells to are missing
from the list completely.)
Johannes Walch
> On Feb 11, 8:05 am, Johannes Walch wrote:
>
>>>> Sure - assuming 30+ distributors still have stock. I know at least
>>>> one who doesn't, counting you.
>
>>> I'm not a distributor.
>>> Potomac is not a distributor.
>>> Walch & Nusser is not among the 30+ distributors mentioned.
>
>> True. But I know a few of those 30+ and none of them has more than 5
>> boxes of a single V:TES product in stock. Also not true by the way that
>> those companies don�t sell to end customers. I know several of them who do.
>
> So, the actual information you want to pass on to Fred and similar
> interested parties, is that when they attempt to buy cards from
> friendly local game stores, they will immediately pass that interest
> on to the distributors, who will immediately pass that interest on to
> White Wolf.
I am all in favor of local game store. I am just not seeing that
distributors are taking care of VTES and doubt they would invest time in
passing on requests (at least some of them).
> If you (the player) want WW to reprint Heirs to the Blood starters,
> place an order thru a friendly local game store NOW!
Not sure if that necessarily leads to HttB Starter reprints, but still a
good idea.
> (i.e. Yes, I know the Philippines "distributor" is actually a retail
> store. Some of the "distributors" are mis-represented and there are a
> number of actual distributors that White Wolf sells to are missing
> from the list completely.)
There are also a few of them who do distribution but also own a chain of
stores (like Janne). Nothing wrong with that, just wanted to have the
correct information out there.
librarian
> Johannes Walch wrote:
>> Ector schrieb:
>>> How possibly this could happen? Some managers terribly underestimated
>>> the demand?
>>
>
> . So rather sell out quickly with a
>> potential reprint than sitting on a big pile of boxes.
>
>
> Exactly.
I spoke with my rep at the 2nd largest hobby game
distributor in the US, and they are sold out of Starters.
To quote:
"I'm currently sold out, we've had quite the run on them in
the last 2
days."
So to some degree, the announcement that WW sold out, has
sped up demand at the distribution level; which probably
comes from the retailer level; which in turn no doubt came
from the fan-base.
best -
chris
TorranceCircle
> So, the actual information you want to pass on to Fred and similar
> interested parties, is that when they attempt to buy cards from
> friendly local game stores, they will immediately pass that interest
> on to the distributors, who will immediately pass that interest on to
> White Wolf.
>
> If you (the player) want WW to reprint Heirs to the Blood starters,
> place an order thru a friendly local game store NOW!
Also, I think this is something, as players, to email Oscar Garza
with, so he can show this interest in the set, and VtES, to WW or CCP
or whoever he can.
-Andy
Vincent
I hope that with the reprint, Deflection will get a new art ... :)
Salem
> Milsims stated back on the 11/11/2009 and I quote,
>
> "All VTES Displays, and Launch Kits MUST be Pre-Ordered.
> We will not be reordering this set after Release."
>
> Milsims aren't local either, they are in Melbourne, Victoria and are
> bricks and mortar. This is the type of support we receive in
> Australia.
>
> At a price of $152 for a Booster Display and $114 for a Starter
> Display, supposedly discounted by 5% for our 'strong' Aussie dollar
> which at the time those prices were given was almost at parity with
> the US, excluding shipping, you can perhaps understand why the
> majority of purchasers choose to buy from the US directly whenever
> possible. Even with exorbitant shipping All-Star Trading charges
> (double what Lasombra charges!) it still works out substantially
> cheaper.
Milsims has seemed to be losing competitiveness over the last few years.
Too many people ordering from the US directly instead probably leads to
them selling less stock, so they have to have a higher margin per unit
shipped, which leads to a vicious circle as people are even less likely
to buy from their higher prices. That's my guess anyway.
> The news that online stores, namely Potomac and Lasombra are sold out
> so early basically means, at least in my neck of the woods, that we
> simply will not have access to HttB Starters. Or I guess I can pay 2
> or 3 times retail on the secondary market via eBay.
We here in Canberra organised a posse back when the set was announced,
and ordered from Potomac. Not all of our playgroup got in on the order,
though. Including shipping, once broken down the price of each display
was well under AUD$100 from potomac.
But seriously, the *new* cards are still available (boosters). The
starter deck's sought-after reprinted cards are still (mostly) available
in other sets, just not as neatly.
> For what looks like such a good set it really leaves a sour taste in
> the mouth and only serves to widens the divide between the have and
> have not's even further. People talk about new players not having
> Parity Shifts and the like versus the older players, well welcome to
> the new disparity, Villeins, Target Vitals, Eyes of Argus in abundance
> for the lucky few.
>
> Not happy Jan!
Even if this set is never reprinted, there will be other sets, that
reprint cards you want. And they're also available in older sets. Calm down.
--
salem.
Salem
> Also let�s face it, card game player communities are whiny bitches and
> you rather produce conservatively. They get easily upset by stuff you
> probably even didn�t see coming. So rather sell out quickly with a
> potential reprint than sitting on a big pile of boxes.
see: Dark Sovereigns
--
salem
Ector
The Lasombra wrote:
> On Feb 10, 7:16 am, Ector wrote:
> > How possibly this could happen?
>
> Ask the 30+ distributors that purchased product.
>
> > Some managers terribly underestimated the demand?
>
> Not at all. I fear that some distributors have greatly over-estimated
> demand and will be sitting on it for a while.
It would be great to know about at least one of them :)
> > I guess a lot of people are going to grab the remaining starters from
> > the stores that still have them in stock (as I did just today),
>
> I do hope so! Buy from friendly local game stores today!
>
> > and then a lot of people will still lack Villeins, Eyes, T:Vs and other
> > good stuff :(
>
> Nope. The 30+ distributors still have product. It is only White Wolf
> that is sold out.
Potomac doesn't have them now (boosters are present). You don't have
them. And even CCGArmory now sells a "set of starters" (half-box) for
$39.99 :( I've never seen such rapid disappearance of VTES stuff.
> > Though most active members of our playgroup will probably get the
> > starters they need, I'd still like to hear about the additional
> > printing.
>
> When there is demand from the distributors, you could expect a reprint
> decision.
Hope the decision will be made soon enough. A lot of our players
didn't manage to order the starters, as well as a lot of other
players, I guess.