the status of a vampire (concerning all the anathema threads and it's spawns)
Chris.QJ
(this is the result of a lot of thinking after reading the threads
mentioned in the subject, they may be wrong, the may be right, but
these are the conclusion i have come to)
the way i understand it:
there are more than 2 stati a controlled vampire can have
the usual ones:
ready
in torpor
reading all of LSJ's replys and such i gather there are more distinct
ones:
going to torpor
being burned
in both cases the vampire is not ready and not in torpor
---
a few examples to explain this to myself:
telepathic tracking
if A strikes B (at 0 blood) for hands then B is going to torpor after
damage resolution therefore B is not ready (but also not yet in
torpor, cause as i understand it , B is only going to torpor after the
end of combat) so TT cannot be played
the above example with undead persitance
after damage resolution there is obviously a short phase in which
cards like undead persistance can be played to prevent a vamp from
going to torpor
[for] Only usable when this vampire should go into torpor. This
vampire gets an optional press and will not go to torpor until combat
ends (although he or she is still considered wounded and can be burned
as normal). If 3 rounds of combat pass with no cards played, combat
ends. This vampire is sent into torpor after combat. [FOR] Prevent 2
damage.
this is IMO triggered by the phrase "should go to torpor". the Jan
Pieterzoon example from Flux would work if the card said "only usable
on a vampire going to torpor"
so the phases in late combat are:
-) resolve damage
-) check if any of the vamps in combat are wounded
--) yes: window to play UP and such effects
--) no : do nothing
-) assign the wounded vamps the "going to torpor" status
-) press step
-) uncanceled press?
--) yes: next round
--) no : combat ends
-) after the end of combat : move all vamps "going to torpor" to
torpor
considering the status of a vampire burned in combat
-) the vamp takes enough damage (agg) for being burned (usually X+2 (X
being the number of blood on the vamp) of which one at least mus be
agg)
-) the damage resolves all at once
-) the status immediatley goes to "being burned"
redefinition of "being burned":
a vampire being burned cannot do anything (except playing cards and
triggering effects that explicitly require a vampire being burned)
all cards on this vampire are considered burned unless the vampire
prevents himself from being burned.
(therefore the anathema is considerd burned before it has a chance to
kick in)
-)if the vampire does not prevent himself from being burned, then burn
the vamp, all counters on it, and all cards on it.
special example
vamp A with anathema and 2 blood receives 5 agg damage. status goes to
being burned as described above (therefore the anathema does not
trigger [LSJ])
Vamp A plays Reform Body , is not being burned , therefore the
anathema regains it's (lets call it) ready status , checks if this
vampire was reduced to 0 blood in this combat and burns the vampire,
the controller of the opposing minion gaining the cap of vamp A in
pool.
comments and clarifications always welcome (hint LSJ)
regards
Chris.QJ
LSJ
>
> hi
>
> (this is the result of a lot of thinking after reading the threads
> mentioned in the subject, they may be wrong, the may be right, but
> these are the conclusion i have come to)
>
> the way i understand it:
>
> there are more than 2 stati a controlled vampire can have
>
> the usual ones:
> ready
> in torpor
torpor (and "on the way to torpor") = not ready for controlled vampire.
> reading all of LSJ's replys and such i gather there are more distinct
> ones:
>
> going to torpor
an example of "not ready"
> being burned
an example of ready or not ready, depdending on the state of the vampire.
> in both cases the vampire is not ready and not in torpor
"in torpor" and "going to torpor" are largely symnonymous.
The latter is only used as a convenience for cards that
can be played and effects that occur during the transition.
> ---
>
> a few examples to explain this to myself:
>
> telepathic tracking
>
> if A strikes B (at 0 blood) for hands then B is going to torpor after
> damage resolution therefore B is not ready (but also not yet in
> torpor, cause as i understand it , B is only going to torpor after the
> end of combat) so TT cannot be played
Right. TT only cares about ready and not ready.
> the above example with undead persitance
UP requires torpor (or actually, the transistion, because it stops the
transition), correct.
> this is IMO triggered by the phrase "should go to torpor". the Jan
> Pieterzoon example from Flux would work if the card said "only usable
> on a vampire going to torpor"
No. That would mean the same thing: the transition from ready to not ready
(which UP would then prevent).
> so the phases in late combat are:
>
> -) resolve damage
> -) check if any of the vamps in combat are wounded
> --) yes: window to play UP and such effects
> --) no : do nothing
> -) assign the wounded vamps the "going to torpor" status
> -) press step
> -) uncanceled press?
> --) yes: next round
> --) no : combat ends
> -) after the end of combat : move all vamps "going to torpor" to
> torpor
No press step for not ready vampires.
Combat ends when one of the combatants is no longer ready.
-) resolve damage (marking wounded vampires wounded; burning burned minions)
--) if any of the vamps are burned, check for burn activity (e.g., Reform Body)
--) if any of the vamps are wounded, check for UP, et al.
-) if any of the vamps are wounded (and not UPed) or are burned, end combat.
-) if combat hasn't ended, press step.
> considering the status of a vampire burned in combat
>
> -) the vamp takes enough damage (agg) for being burned (usually X+2 (X
> being the number of blood on the vamp) of which one at least mus be
> agg)
> -) the damage resolves all at once
> -) the status immediatley goes to "being burned"
> redefinition of "being burned":
> a vampire being burned cannot do anything (except playing cards and
> triggering effects that explicitly require a vampire being burned)
> all cards on this vampire are considered burned unless the vampire
> prevents himself from being burned.
> (therefore the anathema is considerd burned before it has a chance to
> kick in)
> -)if the vampire does not prevent himself from being burned, then burn
> the vamp, all counters on it, and all cards on it.
Looks good.
> special example
> vamp A with anathema and 2 blood receives 5 agg damage. status goes to
> being burned as described above (therefore the anathema does not
> trigger [LSJ])
> Vamp A plays Reform Body , is not being burned , therefore the
> anathema regains it's (lets call it) ready status , checks if this
> vampire was reduced to 0 blood in this combat and burns the vampire,
> the controller of the opposing minion gaining the cap of vamp A in
> pool.
Correct.
> comments and clarifications always welcome (hint LSJ)
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
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