REPORT - NL ECQ 2007 - my perspective
tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com
This is a report of my experiences at the Dutch ECQ 2007. I'll start
by saying that the organisation was smooth and relaxed, and the 24
players (of which about 50 % foreign) were great fun to hang out with
once again (my previous tournament being the Dutch ECQ the year
before). My appetite is whet for a few more tournaments - not so much
because of the game, but due to the people.
I played a version of David Tatu's 'All things sneaky', since I'd
noticed the crypt + master options for a lowcap setite/ventrue vote
deck as well (and I didn't have the asanbonsams yet for the deck I
really want to build). I started off with David's version since my
only playgroup is JOL and I didn't have a chance to tweak ratio's in a
deck built from scratch. As a personal touch I included 2 Maureen and
2 Condemnation:Mute, cause I like 'em. Some other swappage as well.
Anyway, on to the rounds:
Round 1:
Me,
Debbie: Tremere toolbox,
Emile, D'erlette nephandi
Manuel, something setite and toolboxy?
Hardy, ultraweenie, 50% dom, swarm bleed
I noticed my game was over when Hardy flipped his weenies and took 6-8
pool from me the next turn. Threatening Hardy some didn't work, and
debbie never got in lunge range, so I played defensive, put damage
backwards, but died in 35 minutes anyway. Hardy dealt a little with
debbie to have her work on emile, and when she'd done enough, simply
powered through the table.
Round 2:
Me,
Kamel Senni, Imbued,
Bjorn, OBF DOM,
Alfred, Pascek & Pelletier,
Peter, weenie aus.
It proved to be a hard place to sit for me, but Kamel was quite low at
a point when he decided to DI his prey's ousting move (allowing him to
oust his prey on the next turn, most likely), while I had 2
deflections into him, a blood doll in hand to push to my empty minion,
and my small SB cluster to oust him. After that, Alfred didn't want my
offered deal to oust my new prey and his prey, so we timed out from
there.
Round 3:
Me,
Jeroen, Setite/Synesion multi-act/tempt
Martin, Tremere ECQ 2006+,
Johannes, Cybele beast,
Manfred, OBF DOM PRO
Knowing roughly what jeroen was playing, and having an opening flow of
massive damage, I tried to oust him really quickly before my vampires
were all tempted. I crippled him, but he kept itchingly out of reach
through minion tap and voter cap. Martin built his empire, Johannes
took a long time getting out the Beast (bad flow), and my pred built,
but thank god he didn't SB much, perhaps thinking I had more deflect
than I actually did.
At some point, Johannes died, and I was getting the shaft from my
prey, so I decided to act innocent and let my prey work on martin,
hoping I could betray him at some point. That didn't happen before
time, so another .5 vp for me! Rejoice!
I stayed to watch a bit of the finals - the bleed for 11 by Hardy on
his prey in round 2 was inspiring - of many discussions on the weenie
problem. Didn't see how it ended up as I wanted to spend time on the
couch.
A very fun day, greetings to everybody, good to see you all again!
Tobias
Oortje
> by saying that the organisation was smooth and relaxed, and the 24
> players (of which about 50 % foreign) were great fun to hang out with
> once again (my previous tournament being the Dutch ECQ the year
> before). My appetite is whet for a few more tournaments - not so much
> because of the game, but due to the people.
>
>
>
> Tobias
Thank you for attending. I dont think I have time to write the full
report tonight, but it will be here by wensday. I hope to see you all
in september in Hilversum. the new prince there is planning a
tournament for us.
More soon,
Oortje
PaulW...@gmail.com
Altough I am the official Prince, all credits go to Oortje since he
put in most if not all of the efford.
Over time you might see all the decks the were played during the
tournament appear on this board. But I am having some trouble figuring
out some people's handwriting...
Thanks oortje for organizing it, and thanks players for showing up. I
will be a more active prince in the future ;-)
Paul
Jeroen
<tobiasopdenbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I played a version of David Tatu's 'All things sneaky', since I'd
> noticed the crypt + master options for a lowcap setite/ventrue vote
> deck as well (and I didn't have the asanbonsams yet for the deck I
> really want to build). I started off with David's version since my
> only playgroup is JOL and I didn't have a chance to tweak ratio's in a
> deck built from scratch. As a personal touch I included 2 Maureen and
> 2 Condemnation:Mute, cause I like 'em. Some other swappage as well.
>
C:M was very painful...
> Round 3:
>
> Me,
> Jeroen, Setite/Synesion multi-act/tempt
actually: more of a Free State Rant Temptation deck
> Martin, Tremere ECQ 2006+,
> Johannes, Cybele beast,
> Manfred, OBF DOM PRO
>
> Knowing roughly what jeroen was playing, and having an opening flow of
> massive damage, I tried to oust him really quickly before my vampires
> were all tempted. I crippled him, but he kept itchingly out of reach
> through minion tap and voter cap.
Worst start for a predator I ever had...
Powerbase Rome, bringing out Ezekiel, while I was bringing him out, 8
damage by turn 3, Condamnation: Mute on Khy'tall. And being bled for
alot. Surprisingly, I survived. Voter Cap must be broken ;-)
>Martin built his empire, Johannes
> took a long time getting out the Beast (bad flow), and my pred built,
> but thank god he didn't SB much, perhaps thinking I had more deflect
> than I actually did.
>
> At some point, Johannes died, and I was getting the shaft from my
> prey, so I decided to act innocent and let my prey work on martin,
> hoping I could betray him at some point.
I wouldn't have seen that one coming. Or wait...;)
By the time I could 've killed Martin, my deck would have run out.
>That didn't happen before
> time, so another .5 vp for me! Rejoice!
And for me too. Bringing my total to 1GW and 3.5 VP. Not bad for an
untested deck without any defence :-)
>
> A very fun day, greetings to everybody, good to see you all again!
Ditto
tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com
> Thanks oortje for organizing it, and thanks players for showing up. I
> will be a more active prince in the future ;-)
>
> Paul
It would've been nice if one of you 2 had at least told us the final
standings. :)
Tobias
Johannes Walch
Final Standings were:
1. Erol Oenguen
2. Hardy Range
3. Bjoern Schmale
4. Peter Bouwman
5. Johannes Walch
I have been ousted turn 3 in the finals.
Weenies are broken.
cheers,
Johannes
coincoi...@hotmail.com
>
> I have been ousted turn 3 in the finals.
> Weenies are broken.
>
PaulW...@gmail.com
I have finished copying the deck list, rene and kamel really should
practice their writings ;-). I will post them somewhere tonight.
Johannes Walch
>> I have been ousted turn 3 in the finals.
>> Weenies are broken.
>>
> and Great Beast is too big ^^
>
>
Every vampire is too big if you get bled for 11 in turn 2!
tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com
> tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com schrieb:
>
> > On 25 Jun, 10:33, PaulWigg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> Thanks oortje for organizing it, and thanks players for showing up. I
> >> will be a more active prince in the future ;-)
>
> >> Paul
>
> > It would've been nice if one of you 2 had at least told us the final
> > standings. :)
>
> > Tobias
>
> Final Standings were:
>
> 1. Erol Oenguen
> 2. Hardy Range
> 3. Bjoern Schmale
> 4. Peter Bouwman
> 5. Johannes Walch
Interesting - perhaps just like those of us watching from the outside
predicted (Erol winning), perhaps not. Maybe the report will have some
surprises in store for us?
eRol
news:f5olsg$vr0$1...@news01.versatel.de...
Here is my Deck:
Deck Name: Black Hand Arts v1.0
Created By: Erol
Description: Build up like a normal !Tor Breed Deck, bring out Banjoko for
enhanced Seraph Tech. Black Hand Emissary and Watchtower: Wolves Feed will
givw you the advantage to win, hopefully. ;)
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 10, Max: 21, Avg: 4,08)
----------------------------------------------
1 Justine Chen pre 2 Toreador Antitribu
1 Nicholas Chang aus 2 Toreador Antitribu
1 Monique Kim aus cel 3 Toreador Antitribu
1 Jonathan Gursel aus pre 3 Toreador Antitribu
1 Loonar cel PRE 4 Toreador Antitribu
1 Sabrina aus cel pre 4 Toreador Antitribu
1 Gabriel de Cambrai aus cel dem obf pre 5 Toreador
Antitribu
1 Cristos Mantigo aus cel dom obf pre 5 Toreador
Antitribu
3 Banjoko obt pot DOM 5 Lasombra
1 Dominique Santo Paulo (ADV) pot pre AUS CEL 6 Toreador Antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (33 cards)
2 Parthenon, The
8 Cadet
2 Wash
7 Foundation Exhibit
2 Palla Grande
2 Watchtower: The Wolves Feed
4 Blood Doll
1 Direct Intervention
1 Fear of Mekhet
1 Dia de los Muertos
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Census Taker
1 Not to Be
Action (16 cards)
10 Embrace, The
2 Black Hand Emissary
2 Mustajib
2 Art Scam
Action Modifier (6 cards)
6 Change of Target
Political Action (22 cards)
7 Consanguineous Boon
9 Kine Resources Contested
4 Conservative Agitation
1 Rumors of Gehenna
1 Crusade: Brussels
Reaction (9 cards)
3 Truth in Ink
2 On the Qui Vive
4 Deflection
Combat (2 cards)
2 Majesty
Event (2 cards)
1 Break the Code
1 Anthelios, the Red Star
coincoi...@hotmail.com
> coincoinmas...@hotmail.com schrieb:
not if it is out turn1 ...
well, yeah, I know what you mean. But, another time, the weenie did
not win the game. So, this is not broken... just uninteresting
Bram Vink
Hmm, while I remember, I'll write down my own experiences a bit.
Since I hadn't slept more than 2 hours beforehand, I might not
remember everything :P
My first table:
Me, playing !ventrue toolbox, bleeding..
Someone, playing lasombra entombment, bleeding...
Alexander, playing tzimisce toolbox, bleeding..
Jeroen, playing synesios FSR, bleeding
Peter, playing weenie auspex. bleeding me.
I got a reasonably good start with 4 transfers, getting out peter
blaine, later getting out owain evans followed by joseph o'grady.
My prey seemed mostly ineffective, but I was content to let him do his
thing a bit while I built up. Peter wasnt drawing his guns well, and
even then when he blocked me there was a pretty good chance of me
torporizing his minions.
Jeroen was pretty much screwed over by his positioning. Bleeding into
weenie auspex, and later on alex also brought out a yawp court, his
game was pretty much dead in the water. He was ousted first, shortly
followed by my prey. I was then struggling a bit with peter's smiling
jack, bloodwise. So was alex, so we removed it. Since Peter had nearly
no forward motion against me, I was confident to bring out lazverinus,
and things were generally not looking bad for me. Alex golconda'd his
empty meshenka because we were close to timeout anyway, and noone got
ousted before it.
-----
Table two:
Erol, playing !Tor Blackhand Embrace, bleeding..
I know the guy but cant remember his name, playing !Malk toolbox,
bleeding..
Me, playing !Ventrue Toolbox bleeding..
Debbie, playing obf/dom/tha-ish thing bleeding..
Martin, playing Tremere wall.
Erol started out looking strong, and I had no weenie in my crypt.
luckily boy toy only bled for one while I got out Blackhorse tanner.
Debby bled for a lot, but mostly just got bounced around. The bounce
played on this table was quite exceptional, and having my enemy's
enemy and telepathic misdirections as well as deflections saved my
bacon not once but twice.
Erol didnt draw his consanguineous boons well, and got ousted by
Martin and his own watchtower. I then ousted debbie while getting
close to getting ousted by my predator, who seemed to be playing a
load of intercept.
I would've ousted martin next, but for uncareful play on my side and
lack of time.
Third table:
Emile, playing nephandus mage, bleeding..
Alfred, playing Jaroslav Pascek, bleeding..
Bart, playing IC vote, bleeding..
Me, playing !ventrue toolbox.
Emile started out strong, and continued that way. I started out with a
too randomized deck, having a lot of combat, drawing a little
intercept, but nothing to be able to put pressure on emile. Memories
of mortality taking care of Jaroslav and Lazverinus, not having to
take actions to bring them in play, and having too many nephandi in
play to get our memories removed, the game pretty quickly went his
way.
Emile sweeps, leaving me a supporter of memories of mortality
errata. :P
All in all a nice tournament, next one I'll have slept, and take a bit
quicker deck to escape timeouts ;)
Cheers,
Bram
tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com
> I played a version of David Tatu's 'All things sneaky', since I'd
> noticed the crypt + master options for a lowcap setite/ventrue vote
> deck as well (and I didn't have the asanbonsams yet for the deck I
> really want to build). I started off with David's version since my
> only playgroup is JOL and I didn't have a chance to tweak ratio's in a
> deck built from scratch. As a personal touch I included 2 Maureen and
> 2 Condemnation:Mute, cause I like 'em. Some other swappage as well.
And since I'm home now, I can save Paul some work and post my deck:
Deck Name: My things sneaky
Created By: Tobias
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 27, Avg: 5,75)
----------------------------------------------
2 Robin Withers dom obf pre 4 Ventrue
2 Catherine du Bois for obf pre DOM 5 Ventrue
2 Maureen dom obf DAI PRE 6 Baali
1 Amenophobis dom pre OBF SER 7 Followers of
Set
1 Ezekiel obf pot PRE SER 6 Followers of
Set
2 Ankh-sen-Sutekh obf PRE SER 6 Followers of
Set
2 Mukhtar Bey obf pot FOR PRE QUI7 Caitiff
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (15 cards)
1 Creepshow Casino
1 Ventrue Headquarters
1 Ferraille
1 Powerbase: Rome
4 Blood Doll
1 Direct Intervention
2 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Secure Haven
1 Fear of Mekhet
2 Obfuscate
Action (8 cards)
2 Entrancement
3 Legal Manipulations
2 Condemnation: Mute
1 Form of Corruption
Action Modifier (30 cards)
3 Cloak the Gathering
1 Elder Impersonation
2 Faceless Night
3 Lost in Crowds
2 Spying Mission
6 Bewitching Oration
5 Voter Captivation
2 Conditioning
4 Forgotten Labyrinth
2 Bribes
Political Action (16 cards)
1 Ventrue Justicar
1 Disputed Territory
2 Ancilla Empowerment
1 Anarchist Uprising
6 Kine Resources Contested
4 Conservative Agitation
1 Rumors of Gehenna
Reaction (11 cards)
7 Deflection
4 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (7 cards)
7 Majesty
Event (1 cards)
1 Nightmares upon Nightmares
Combo (2 cards)
2 Swallowed by the Night
Alf
<tobiasopdenbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> NL ECQ 2007
>
> This is a report of my experiences at the Dutch ECQ 2007. I'll start
> by saying that the organisation was smooth and relaxed, and the 24
> players (of which about 50 % foreign) were great fun to hang out with
> once again (my previous tournament being the Dutch ECQ the year
> before). My appetite is whet for a few more tournaments - not so much
> because of the game, but due to the people.
<SNIP>
> A very fun day, greetings to everybody, good to see you all again!
>
> Tobias
Seconded.
Very relaxed folks and a more then decent location.
I very much enjoyed doing a 400km drive and getting my half vp.
And playing VTES with dutch guys is so very much
better than like, say, soccer :))
Groetjes
Alf
<insert clever quotation here>
Jeroen
> well, yeah, I know what you mean. But, another time, the weenie did
> not win the game. So, this is not broken... just uninteresting
For the 1 billion milionth time: broken != wins all the time.
Did original Succubus club make you win all the time? No. Did it break
the normal limitations to a degree that was abusive: yes it did. Same
for Anarch Revolt and the seat switchers.
Are weenies broken because they win all the time? no. Do they break
the normal flow of the game and are very hard to defend against
because of their fast start (meaning you hardly get a chance to start
defending)? IMO: yes. But the problem lies not in the weenies, but in
the influence structure of the game. So solutions are not easy to come
by.
tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com
Yes, we tried to discuss this at the final... almost every solution
feels artificial... limit bleed max to (half?) capacity? Change the
opening transfer/activate rules?
Every change your going to do is one that impacts on a universe of
thousands of cards. Tricky.
coincoi...@hotmail.com
Please define normal flow of a game
to me,
your minions play your cards and you use them to win the game, or you
play cards to use the vampires of other people (!= anarch revolt and
succubus club)
you play to win
your prey and your predator do not change except when they get killed
(!=seat switchers)
to me, that's the 3 postulates of a normal game
Jeroen
> "Are weenies broken because they win all the time? no. Do they break
> the normal flow of the game."
>
> Please define normal flow of a game
>
> to me,
> your minions play your cards and you use them to win the game, or you
> play cards to use the vampires of other people (!= anarch revolt and
> succubus club)
That was not my problem with AR and SC. It was the randomness of AR
and the abusive dealmaking that was possible with SC. I would
transcribe that as: 'You need to play cards'
> you play to win
yup.
> your prey and your predator do not change except when they get killed
> (!=seat switchers)
>
> to me, that's the 3 postulates of a normal game
First of all, i'd add: 'Get a chance to play something before being
ousted', coupled with: 'no early "if the table does nothing against
deck X, it will oust pretty easily"-situations'. Not that I don't mind
those situations late game, but only when they need some set-up.
Hardy Range
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well,
Erol did post a (German language) event report in the German VTES
forum, from which I steal a little part, but perhaps he will repeat
something here.
Before the finals, the standings were
1. Hardy
2. Björn
3. Peter
4. Johannes
5. Erol
I knew all other decks except for Peter's, so knew I would not want to
sit next to Erol, and that Johannes would be killed by me very fast,
so I was totally opportunistic in my choice of where to sit.
This is how it turned out:
Johannes (Cybele Turbo) -> Peter (Weenie Auspex/Guns) -> Erol (!Tor
Black Hand Next Generation Breed, Bleed and Vote) -> Björn (G1/2 Dom/
Obf) - Hardy (those bastards, the weenies with dom)
Step 1 of my plan worked out, owing to a little bit of luck:
Johannes had to go first, and due to some cross-table interaction, my
predator, Björn, decided to spend his Sudden Reversal to cancel Erol's
Wash which was supposed to clean a Mob Connections played by Peter.
This allowed me to play a turn 1 Info Highway, uncancelled, and bring
out all of my four minions (and later, a new weenie every turn).
I managed to oust Johannes in turn 3, without giving him a chance to
bring out Cybele. Bleed for 11 in turn 2, bleed for 10 in turn 3 - as
Ralf Lammert put it in the German forums: Played time <<10 min, time
felt by Johannes << 10 sec.
This of course started quite some discussion about weenies.
Peter was more difficult: He played weenies as well, so the advantage
in numbers that my deck relies upon did not immediately come to bear -
but being able to influence out a vampire each turn helped in the long
run.
Additionally, Peter didn't draw a minion with AUS, so could not
deflect any bleed done by me. He made a deal with Erol for some mutual
support, giving Erol free reign with his votes, and some ConBoons by
Erol gained Peter some "collateral pool" (!Toreador). On the other
side, Peter managed to block and torporize (Concealed Magnums) several
of my weenies.
But since Björn, who now got Erol's full attention, wanted to break
that alliance, Peter finally fell to the combined onslaught of my
swarm bleed and the massive bleeds by Björn that I deflected.
After that, the game was over for me - even my swarm did not stand any
chance against Erol's even larger horde, with their massive pool gain.
Erol ousted Björn and then me at his leisure.
I probably should have tried to self-destruct after ousting Peter,
giving a VP to Björn, leaving only 2 to Erol. This way, I would have
been first placed in the event, but a) this thought did not cross my
mind at the time, and b) my deck was evil enough.
Now, to add to the applause: The location and the organization were
indeed great - thanks for hosting this event!
Regards,
Hardy
Wolflord
Indeed
> Final Standings were:
> 1. Erol Oenguen
Go Erol! Go Erol! (doing little dance)
Erol, congratulations man.
I've made some estimations with Kamel on the way home (and during the
nigt after) on what the seating and results of the finals would be.
Turns out we were right in our predictions
I have to say: a very, very impressive deck, and well played.
I actually thought it was by far the most original and renewing deck
seen in a long long long time at tournaments!
keep up the good work.
BCingU
/jo
Jeroen
> Go Erol! Go Erol! (doing little dance)
> Erol, congratulations man.
> I've made some estimations with Kamel on the way home (and during the
> nigt after) on what the seating and results of the finals would be.
> Turns out we were right in our predictions
> I have to say: a very, very impressive deck, and well played.
I never saw it in action: but on paper, it looks impressive indeed.
> /jo
Psssst: there's a vamp missing in your crypt in the decklist
thread :-)