Hoover!
Nephi
people had some interesting new ideas for what a bag could do. (e.g.
http://tinyurl.com/gjqh or http://tinyurl.com/gjql)
I liked some of these ideas, but I felt that they would work better
implemented into new items rather than added onto the Bag of Tricks.
My plan was to make a bags patch which would create a few new bags.
But it has been a busy summer for me and I've only been able to code
up my favorite idea: the dungeon hoover. I've decided to just go ahead
and release this patch as it is.
But first a few questions to you all:
1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
"hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
term do you prefer?
2) Since applying a hoover will suck objects off the ground, the only
command left to get items out of it is loot. But I don't want the
hoover to be like a normal container, where you can easily get items
in and out. Plus, you have to drop something before you can loot it.
So I implemented a new extended command: #dump. This command allows
you to dump all the contents of a container directly to the floor.
(Note that this is nicely symmetric with the hoover: applying it moves
items directly into it without passing through your inventory, and
dumping it moves items directly from it onto the floor without passing
through your inventory.) #Dumping a locked container doesn't work, of
course.
So I finally get to my question for you:
What to do with a cursed bag of holding? Clearly #dumping shouldn't
work unmodified, otherwise you could bypass the bag's item-eating
behavior. My current solution is to not allow the player to #dump a
cursed bag of holding at all. ("It remains tightly shut.") But this
has the side effect of allowing players to identify a cursed bag of
holding by trying to dump it. Now this isn't normally a big deal,
since pretty much the only time you come across cursed bags of holding
is in bones files and you can count on it being cursed then. But it
still makes me uneasy. Another possible solution would be to allow
dumping but give the normal chance of an object disappearing for every
object as it falls out. Something like: "The long sword disappears as
passes through the mouth of the bag!". Or there might be a better
solution. What do you think?
3) Would anyone even be interested in this patch? As it adds a new
object, save/bones file compatibility with Vanilla is broken. (If
someone just wants the #dump part of the patch, I could post that
too.) I personally love the hoover when I'm camping at an altar. It
makes cleaning up all the junk monsters leave behind soooo much
easier.
Let me know what you think.
And while I'm on the subject, a janitor monster which is created with
a hoover would be neat. Maybe someday ... (There are a lot of good
ideas out there about dungeon janitors http://tinyurl.com/gkcz).
--
Nephi
"You are covered with rice."
Check out my patches at http://www.geocities.com/zindorsky
Foo
> But first a few questions to you all:
> 1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
> cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
> "hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
> hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
> term do you prefer?
types? Hoover better than the generic? an artifact vacuum? ;)
<no comment on 2>
> 3) Would anyone even be interested in this patch? As it adds a new
> object, save/bones file compatibility with Vanilla is broken. (If
> someone just wants the #dump part of the patch, I could post that
> too.) I personally love the hoover when I'm camping at an altar. It
> makes cleaning up all the junk monsters leave behind soooo much
> easier.
Sure. How is it operated- wield it? apply it? apply=>wield a la a
pickaxe? what do you get for bashing monsters with it? Is it upright or
canister? (I assume upright ;)
> And while I'm on the subject, a janitor monster which is created with
> a hoover would be neat. Maybe someday ... (There are a lot of good
> ideas out there about dungeon janitors http://tinyurl.com/gkcz).
neat.
Sam Dennis
> 1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
> cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
> "hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
> hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
> term do you prefer?
`Hoover' is a trademark. Vacuum cleaner, please.
--
++acr@,ka"
MBO
Personally, I like "Hoover", and *probably* the lawyers would never
think to look for trademark violations in NetHack -- but I'd hate to
think of the DevTeam being hunted down by a pack of ravenous lawyers, so
maybe it would be best to avoid "hoover".
How about "Suck-U-Lux"? That was the fictional trademark name of the
vacuum cleaner in the opening scenes of the movie Roger Rabbit.
--
Mark
updoc
> `Hoover' is a trademark. Vacuum cleaner, please.
Ever tried xeroxing a kleenex sheet?
Brandon
--
Pick spot. Shut up. Wait.
-Kimahri Ronso
Jens Schmalzing
MBO <mob...@tulane.edu> writes:
> How about "Suck-U-Lux"? That was the fictional trademark name of
> the vacuum cleaner in the opening scenes of the movie Roger Rabbit.
Why not name the item vacuum cleaner and have a variety of brand names
that can be read on it? And if I may humbly suggest "Vorwerk Kobold"...
Regards, Jens.
--
J'qbpbe, le m'en fquz pe j'qbpbe!
Le veux aimeb et mqubib panz je pézqbpbe je djuz tqtaj!
Sam Dennis
> Sam Dennis <s...@malfunction.screaming.net> wrote:
>> `Hoover' is a trademark. Vacuum cleaner, please.
>
> Ever tried xeroxing a kleenex sheet?
Actually, no; also, I've never used either term generically or, as far
as I can recall, at all. (Maybe it's primarily Americans that do it.)
--
++acr@,ka"
Nephi
> Nephi wrote:
> > But first a few questions to you all:
> > 1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
> > cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
> Same here ;) and, I assume, in most contexts.
> > "hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
> > hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
> > term do you prefer?
> I prefer the vacuum myself- maybe both could be present, however- two
> types? Hoover better than the generic? an artifact vacuum? ;)
Hmmm... "You see a vacuum here" just sounds too weird to me. Maybe
it's cuz my dad is a physicist. Also, nature abhors a vacuum. I have
no idea what an artifact hoover would do. Suck up monsters, maybe.
> > 3) Would anyone even be interested in this patch? As it adds a new
> > object, save/bones file compatibility with Vanilla is broken. (If
> > someone just wants the #dump part of the patch, I could post that
> > too.) I personally love the hoover when I'm camping at an altar. It
> > makes cleaning up all the junk monsters leave behind soooo much
> > easier.
>
> Sure. How is it operated- wield it? apply it? apply=>wield a la a
> pickaxe? what do you get for bashing monsters with it? Is it upright or
> canister? (I assume upright ;)
You simply a)pply it - no need to wield it. It then sucks up all
objects on the floor in the square where you are. (Objects Which
Cannot Be Contained are not sucked up, of course, and boxes aren't
either. A hoover also has a 600 NWU carrying capacity.)
I'll try to get the patch out by tomorrow.
David Damerell
>1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
>cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
>"hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
>hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
>term do you prefer?
NetHack is in American English, and hence "hoover" should not be used.
Alas.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
K. Bailey
> But first a few questions to you all:
> 1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
> cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
> "hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
> hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
> term do you prefer?
Well, it would be a Hoover(tm) I suppose. Don't you need an
appearance-name and an identified-name? Perhaps it could be
"a vacuum cleaner" to the uninitiated, and a "Vacu-snort Mk V"
to others.
I still prefer the name "bag of tricks" ;)
> 2) Since applying a hoover will suck objects off the ground, the only
> command left to get items out of it is loot. But I don't want the
> hoover to be like a normal container, where you can easily get items
> in and out. Plus, you have to drop something before you can loot it.
> So I implemented a new extended command: #dump.
I think I did a patch like this, it was a long time ago. Rather
than add a #command I put it in the (a)pply menu of things to
do with containers when you apply it; I think this is a better
way to do it.
However I feel this should be totally separate from the hoover;
I somehow feel that if there's anything in the hoover, everything
is dumped out. If it's empty, everything on the ground is sucked
in.
Maybe you could make it more fun by letting you specify a
direction to hover into; and then have fun coding all the special
cases. Could you suck up and expel monsters (yes I'm thinking
about Kirby)? Sucking up a flaming sphere means the next
(a)pply releases a fire bolt, etc.
> What to do with a cursed bag of holding?
Stuff disappears as it comes out, same probabilities but without
messages (you're not looking in the bag after all).
When you run across a cursed (BoH, it usually has far more
things in it than you can hold in your inventory. That
means that the relatively clueless person won't be able
to get everything out of the bag without having to apply
it several times. So even with item desctruction I think
the nastiness of a cursed (BoH is a bit reduced.
Or you could just not allow dumping from BoH anyway.
After all they are bags of magical "holding" ;)
You might also want to have a small chance that some
objects take damage (potions especially) a la what might
happen to them when they get kicked by the hero or
rattled in a kicked box.
[Come to think of it, shouldn't smashed potions of
polymorph polymorph objects?]
I think you should forget the dump stuff and make
it just a toggle (a)pply behavior with the bag o'
sucking. And you know, cursed ones should generate
a hostile 'v' now and then ;)
> 3) Would anyone even be interested in this patch?
The Slash'Em folk perhaps?
Happy hacking
--
kb
Nephi
> Nephi <zind...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
> >cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
> >"hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
> >hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
> >term do you prefer?
>
> NetHack is in American English, and hence "hoover" should not be used.
> Alas.
Not entirely true. For example, we have tins and tinning kits, not
cans and canning kits. There are probably a few more examples that
others will think of.
Pat Rankin
zind...@hotmail.com (Nephi) writes...
[...]
> So I implemented a new extended command: #dump. This command allows
> you to dump all the contents of a container directly to the floor.
Don't read this; it isn't really appearing here....
This capability has already been implemented for NetHack version $(NEXT),
for some value of $(NEXT) greater than 3.4.2. (At present the command is
named #tip rather #dump, but that could conceivably change if your patch
actually makes an impact. It has handling for containers on the floor as
well as in inventory, for cursed bags of holding, bags of tricks, altars,
levitation, and for one or two other things you'll probably overlook. ;-)
Its primary purpose is to provide a means of getting things out of
containers when your hands are stuck to weapons and/or shield, but it
will work at any time unless you're too heavily encumbered.
Chaos Master
to rec.games.roguelike.nethack at 11 Jul 2003 03:08:51 GMT ".
bullwhip). Or, maybe, be a "dust bomb" that'd blind monster.
Rob Ellwood
>
> NetHack is in American English, and hence "hoover" should not be
> used.
> Alas.
I'm on the other side of the pond. Hoover's fine. There
are three distributors in Edmonton, a city of a million people or
less. Not that there aren't other options:
Kelly Bailey wrote:
>
> ...a "Vacu-snort Mk V"
:-) Nice one.
--
Rob Ellwood
Faux_Pseudo
> you to dump all the contents of a container directly to the floor.
This would (good/bad?) mean that you could get a "gray stone" out of a
chest without picking it up. This would also cause fragil items to
break.
'---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~
--
ICQ=66618055 : http://asciipr0n.com/fp UPDATED=05/06
YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: 2/radiohead/pablo_honey/02_-_creep.mp3
Not all who : Now: russian_piano_school_col9/06._Danse_chinoise.mp3
wander are lost : Fwd: _-_creepshow_-_09_-_faithless_the_wonder_boy.mp3
Faux_Pseudo
>> Alas.
>
> Not entirely true. For example, we have tins and tinning kits, not
> cans and canning kits. There are probably a few more examples that
> others will think of.
You can write a "grey" and a "gray" spell book.
'---...____ Faux_Pseudo ________________...---~~~
--
ICQ=66618055 : http://asciipr0n.com/fp UPDATED=05/06
YIM=faux_pseudo : Rev: russian_piano_school_col9/06._Danse_chinoise.mp3
I am the prayers : Now: _-_creepshow_-_09_-_faithless_the_wonder_boy.mp3
of the naive : Fwd: e_rest_comple/0118-radiohead-killer_cars-idm.mp3
Jens Schmalzing
Faux_Pseudo writes:
> This would mean that you could get a "gray stone" out of a chest
> without picking it up.
Just kick the locked chest or bash it with a blunt weapon until it
breaks. You need the spell wizard lock or a wand of locking after
your first attempt in order to fix the broken lock.
David Damerell
> _.--- Nephi spoke in rec.games.roguelike.nethack --------._
>>>NetHack is in American English, and hence "hoover" should not be used.
>>>Alas.
>>Not entirely true. For example, we have tins and tinning kits, not
>>cans and canning kits. There are probably a few more examples that
>>others will think of.
>You can write a "grey" and a "gray" spell book.
That is a different matter, though; the game strives to recognise both
British and American English from the player, but the output is nearly all
in American English; indeed, an earlier version explicitly removed a large
number of Britishisms in the interests of consistency.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Dylan O'Donnell
> zind...@hotmail.com (Nephi) wrote in message
> news:<9bc470b0.03071...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > But first a few questions to you all:
> > 1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
> > cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
> > "hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
> > hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
> > term do you prefer?
>
> Well, it would be a Hoover(tm) I suppose. Don't you need an
> appearance-name and an identified-name? Perhaps it could be
> "a vacuum cleaner" to the uninitiated, and a "Vacu-snort Mk V"
> to others.
Not a Frobozz Electric PermaSuck?
--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "In no longer pretty cities there are fingers in the kitties, :
: There are warrants, forms and chitties and a jackboot on the stair..." :
: -- Alan Moore, "V for Vendetta" :
Eric Wright
Whoa, I didn't notice hell freezing over last night! One of the
DevTeam's own confirming a future feature? Now if only we knew when
this new version was coming o...*BANG*
This is the DevTeam... there is nothing to see here. Move along,
people.
<NO CARRIER>
;-)
Pasi Kallinen
>
> In article <9bc470b0.03071...@posting.google.com>,\
> zind...@hotmail.com (Nephi) writes...
> [...]
>> So I implemented a new extended command: #dump. This command allows
>> you to dump all the contents of a container directly to the floor.
>
> Don't read this; it isn't really appearing here....
Somebody, quick! Call the Kops! Pat's leaking The DevTeam's
Secret World Domination Plans!
:)
--
---------------------+---------------------------------------------
Pasi Kallinen |"That's what the boys are there for." -Hitler
pka...@cs.joensuu.fi |SciFiFantasyHorrorBooks|Magic:tG|Nethack|RPGs
Nephi
> zind...@hotmail.com (Nephi) writes...
> [...]
> > So I implemented a new extended command: #dump. This command allows
> > you to dump all the contents of a container directly to the floor.
>
> Don't read this; it isn't really appearing here....
>
>
> This capability has already been implemented for NetHack version $(NEXT),
> for some value of $(NEXT) greater than 3.4.2. (At present the command is
> named #tip rather #dump, but that could conceivably change if your patch
> actually makes an impact. It has handling for containers on the floor as
> well as in inventory, for cursed bags of holding, bags of tricks, altars,
> levitation, and for one or two other things you'll probably overlook. ;-)
I did consider levitation, altars, stairs, swallowing, and
Schroedinger's box. I should just publish the dern thing. But there
are a few interesting ideas suggested by others that I now want to
implement, so it's probably going to be another day.
> Its primary purpose is to provide a means of getting things out of
> containers when your hands are stuck to weapons and/or shield, but it
> will work at any time unless you're too heavily encumbered.
I can't wait.
Nephi
> zind...@hotmail.com (Nephi) wrote in message news:<9bc470b0.03071...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > But first a few questions to you all:
> > 1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
> > cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover" ... but I think
> > "hoover" somehow sounds better in a Nethack context. "You see here a
> > hoover" as opposed to "You see here a vacuum cleaner" I dunno. What
> > term do you prefer?
>
> Well, it would be a Hoover(tm) I suppose. Don't you need an
> appearance-name and an identified-name? Perhaps it could be
> "a vacuum cleaner" to the uninitiated, and a "Vacu-snort Mk V"
> to others.
I like that.
> > 2) Since applying a hoover will suck objects off the ground, the only
> > command left to get items out of it is loot. But I don't want the
> > hoover to be like a normal container, where you can easily get items
> > in and out. Plus, you have to drop something before you can loot it.
> > So I implemented a new extended command: #dump.
>
> I think I did a patch like this, it was a long time ago. Rather
> than add a #command I put it in the (a)pply menu of things to
> do with containers when you apply it; I think this is a better
> way to do it.
Except that for hoo^H^H^H vacuum cleaners, having to sort through a
menu is exactly the opposite of what I want to happen. The major
reason I like my vacuum cleaner is that it makes moving large piles of
junk so much easier, in terms of keystrokes and real-life time. I want
instant suckage when I (a)pply my vacuum cleaner.
And given Pat's comments, I feel vindicated :-)
> However I feel this should be totally separate from the hoover;
> I somehow feel that if there's anything in the hoover, everything
> is dumped out. If it's empty, everything on the ground is sucked
> in.
No. I tried this before I thought of the #dump command. It doesn't
work very well. When cleaning up after a band of hill orcs, you want
to be able to snork up each orc's mess before having to schlep over to
the dump pile.
> Maybe you could make it more fun by letting you specify a
> direction to hover into; and then have fun coding all the special
> cases. Could you suck up and expel monsters (yes I'm thinking
> about Kirby)? Sucking up a flaming sphere means the next
> (a)pply releases a fire bolt, etc.
All interesting ideas. Too much coding for now though.
Here's another (that I'm not going to code for now): On the Plane of
Air you can use the vacuum cleaner to propel yourself around.
> > What to do with a cursed bag of holding?
>
> Stuff disappears as it comes out, same probabilities but without
> messages (you're not looking in the bag after all).
I'm starting to like this option more and more, but I think that it's
too confusing to have things disappear without messages.
> When you run across a cursed (BoH, it usually has far more
> things in it than you can hold in your inventory. That
> means that the relatively clueless person won't be able
> to get everything out of the bag without having to apply
> it several times. So even with item desctruction I think
> the nastiness of a cursed (BoH is a bit reduced.
True.
> Or you could just not allow dumping from BoH anyway.
> After all they are bags of magical "holding" ;)
You have a point.
> You might also want to have a small chance that some
> objects take damage (potions especially) a la what might
> happen to them when they get kicked by the hero or
> rattled in a kicked box.
>
> [Come to think of it, shouldn't smashed potions of
> polymorph polymorph objects?]
Maybe, but I'm not gonna code it (for now).
> I think you should forget the dump stuff and make
> it just a toggle (a)pply behavior with the bag o'
> sucking. And you know, cursed ones should generate
> a hostile 'v' now and then ;)
Having (a)pply do more than one thing slows it down too much. I want
keystroke effeciency here, people! I do like the
cursed-vacuum-cleaner-can-generate-a-'v' idea.
> > 3) Would anyone even be interested in this patch?
>
> The Slash'Em folk perhaps?
Maybe so. Well, they're welcome to it.
Ole Andersen
> The major
> reason I like my vacuum cleaner is that it makes moving large piles of
> junk so much easier, in terms of keystrokes and real-life time. I want
> instant suckage when I (a)pply my vacuum cleaner.
I assume that there is a risk of breaking things as they are sucked in?
--
Ole Andersen, Copenhagen, Denmark * http://palnatoke.net
Thesis #63: De-cloaking, getting personal: We are those markets. We
want to talk to you. - Cluetrain Manifesto
bri...@encompasserve.org
> Hmmm... "You see a vacuum here" just sounds too weird to me. Maybe
> it's cuz my dad is a physicist. Also, nature abhors a vacuum. I have
> no idea what an artifact hoover would do. Suck up monsters, maybe.
-10 to alignment and angers your god when wielded.
"You have been dammed".
Also, it really sucks as a weapon.
John Briggs
Foo
> Hmmm... "You see a vacuum here" just sounds too weird to me. Maybe
> it's cuz my dad is a physicist. Also, nature abhors a vacuum. I have
> no idea what an artifact hoover would do. Suck up monsters, maybe.
You see a vacuum cleaner here.
Boudewijn Waijers
> Ever tried xeroxing a kleenex sheet?
As far as I know, only the Americans use "to xerox". The rest of the world
talk of "copying".
And what's a kleenex sheet? Never heard of it before.
--
Boudewijn Waijers (bwaijers at tiscali.nl).
Men think about sex about once every seven seconds,
leaving only 6 seconds for football.
- Jo Brand, British stand-up comedienne.
Boudewijn Waijers
> You can write a "grey" and a "gray" spell book.
The original discussion was about the language that NetHack *uses*, not
the language that it *understands*.
The interface accepts British English, but speaks American English.
Foo
> updoc, cunningly disguised as gte...@prism.gatech.edu wrote:
>>Ever tried xeroxing a kleenex sheet?
> As far as I know, only the Americans use "to xerox". The rest of the world
> talk of "copying".
> And what's a kleenex sheet? Never heard of it before.
BIG-name brand of facial tissue. Like Xerox is a BIG-name brand of
copier. ;)
Roger Broadbent
> Personally, I like "Hoover", and *probably* the lawyers would never
> think to look for trademark violations in NetHack -- but I'd hate to
> think of the DevTeam being hunted down by a pack of ravenous lawyers, so
> maybe it would be best to avoid "hoover".
>
> How about "Suck-U-Lux"? That was the fictional trademark name of the
> vacuum cleaner in the opening scenes of the movie Roger Rabbit.
>
>
I think the DevTeam may be more likely to be sued for using a Hollywood
movie trademark than Hoover.
ISTR that in the UK, trademarks that become an alternative name for the
generic article lose their protection, particularly if the manufacturer
does nothing to prevent the process, for example by not including the
generic name on their packaging. I don't know if this would apply to the
word "hoover", or whether this kind of law exists elsewhere.
Roger
Sam Dennis
> ISTR that in the UK, trademarks that become an alternative name for the
> generic article lose their protection,
Ah, now that you mention it, I believe that I've heard of this too.
> I don't know if this would apply to the word "hoover",
I believe that was the specific case I heard of, so it may well be.
That doesn't make me prefer it over vacuum cleaner, of course :)
--
++acr@,ka"
Michael Wise
In the US, the trademark association throws a large cocktail party/dinner
on the first night of annual dictionary conferences, complete with a little
speech about the importance of keeping trademarks from becoming "generic",
and therefore no longer owned by the trademark holder. Inclusion in the
dictionary without a proprietary tag on it pretty much puts the nail in
that coffin. As an example, Xerox fought pretty hard to keep xerox out of
the dictionary as a verb meaning "to copy". My Webster's Ninth lists it,
with a capital X, a trademark tag, and no meaning of "to copy", so they did
a good job.
rekrutacja
> cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover"
In Poland for vacuum cleaner we rather use word "odkurzacz" (which means
exactly "vacuum cleaner"), but word "electrolux" is very common,
especially among older people. On the other hand bicycle is always
"Rover". Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
rekrutacja
Philipp Lucas
wrote:
>Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
>brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
From the top of my head: In Germany, an electric hair-dryer is often
refered to as "Fo:hn" and transparent duct tape is "Tesa-Film". When I
was young, glue was known as "Uhu", but I haven't heard this use of the
brand name recently. And of course, "Walk-man" and "Disk-man" are very
common.
--
Philipp Lucas
phl...@online-club.de
Bruce
> In Poland for vacuum cleaner we rather use word "odkurzacz" (which means
> exactly "vacuum cleaner"), but word "electrolux" is very common,
> especially among older people. On the other hand bicycle is always
> "Rover". Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
> brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
Kleenex and Tobasco, for sure.
--
Bruce Labbate | And when you go to sleep at night,
shiftless layabout | don't you ever feel the weight
| of all the things that make you happy?
| - The Gloria Record
Sabine Dinis Blochberger
news:beupu6$99mut$1...@ID-3042.news.uni-berlin.de...
Well, Föhn is not a brand is it? We germans also use "Tempo" for paper
handkerchiefs.
Arthur J. O'Dwyer
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, rekrutacja wrote:
>
> In Poland for vacuum cleaner we rather use word "odkurzacz" (which means
> exactly "vacuum cleaner"), but word "electrolux" is very common,
> especially among older people. On the other hand bicycle is always
> "Rover". Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
> brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
Besides Kleenex and Tabasco, in (east-coast) American English we have
Yo-yo, escalator, and other "no-longer-really-trademarked,-right?" names
Popsicle (right up there with "escalator")
Frisbee (for "flying disk")
Band-Aid (for "adhesive bandage")
Dixie cup (for "waxed paper cup")
Klondike bar (for "ice cream in chocolate shell without stick")
...
Lots of others, no doubt. I intentionally left off "Coke" for "soda",
since although I've heard of its use in other places, AFAIK that's not
an American usage. Also left out: "Nutella" for "you know, that
chocolatey hazelnut spread," because I don't think anyone else makes
anything like Nutella. I think the UK-English "Marmite" is in the
same situation. :)
And for the record, I've never heard "hoover" used for "vacuum cleaner,"
but I'd certainly have figured it out from context if I ever met one
in Nethack.
-Arthur
David Damerell
>>1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
>>cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover"
>brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
In British English, "hoover". :-)
[And "biro" is apparently a trademark of Bic, but is in fact used for all
cheap ballpoint pens.]
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Lars Kecke
OK, I cheated, well actually googled; for those of you who read German,
here is a list:
http://www.oberlehrer.org/gm.html
Lars
Shannon
> rekrutacja <rekru...@gazeta.pl> deserves a cookie for saying:
> > In Poland for vacuum cleaner we rather use word "odkurzacz" (which means
> > exactly "vacuum cleaner"), but word "electrolux" is very common,
> > especially among older people. On the other hand bicycle is always
> > "Rover". Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
> > brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
>
> Kleenex and Tobasco, for sure.
And don't forget Jello. There's always room for that. :)
Oh yeah...and Band-aid.
--Shannon
Michael Blackney
In Australia (potentially elsewhere):
Brand name:
Li-lo for inflatable matress.
Product names:
Glad-Wrap for that plastic stuff you wrap sandwiches in (cling-wrap?)
Blu-Tac for that blue (often yellow these days) stuff you stick your
posters to walls with.
Post-it notes. (duh)
Icy Pole for any sort of ice-confection on a stick.
--
michaelblackney at hotmail dot com
Born dead roguelike: http://aburatan.sourceforge.net/
Latest version 0.91 26-6-3
Richard Bos
> rekrutacja <rekru...@gazeta.pl> deserves a cookie for saying:
> > In Poland for vacuum cleaner we rather use word "odkurzacz" (which means
> > exactly "vacuum cleaner"), but word "electrolux" is very common,
> > especially among older people. On the other hand bicycle is always
> > "Rover". Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
> > brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
>
> Kleenex and Tobasco, for sure.
Then again, I've never seen anyone else produce Tobasco sauce. Chili
sauce, sure, but Tobasco is not the same thing.
In the .nl, most "generic" brand names I can think of are either
medicines (aspirin, &c.), generics that aren't really generics (who else
makes bakelite, and what _do_ they call it?), and foods (most also
falling under the second category). We use "stofzuiger" for a vac,
"plakband" for Scotch/Tesa tape, "kopieermachine" for Xerox: all
descriptive terms.
Richard
Jeremiah DeWitt Weiner
> Besides Kleenex and Tabasco, in (east-coast) American English we have
Interesting, because I've never heard anyone use "Tabasco" as
a generic term for hot sauce, and I've lived on the East Coast almost
my whole life.
> Yo-yo, escalator, and other "no-longer-really-trademarked,-right?" names
Like "heroin", for example. Somehow I think Bayer would prefer
to forget that one. :-) Oh, and "typewriter", too.
> I intentionally left off "Coke" for "soda",
> since although I've heard of its use in other places, AFAIK that's not
> an American usage.
AFAIK it's _only_ an American usage! I think it's a regionalism,
though, a Southern thing. "What kind of coke you want?"
Arthur J. O'Dwyer
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, rekrutacja wrote:
> >
> > In Poland for vacuum cleaner we rather use word "odkurzacz" (which means
> > exactly "vacuum cleaner"), but word "electrolux" is very common,
> > especially among older people. On the other hand bicycle is always
> > "Rover". Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
> > brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
>
> Besides Kleenex and Tabasco, in (east-coast) American English we have
>
> Yo-yo, escalator, and other "no-longer-really-trademarked,-right?" names
> Popsicle (right up there with "escalator")
> Frisbee (for "flying disk")
> Band-Aid (for "adhesive bandage")
> Dixie cup (for "waxed paper cup")
> Klondike bar (for "ice cream in chocolate shell without stick")
> ...
Oh, and "Post-it" for "yellow sticky note," and "Q-tip" for "cotton swab
on a stick." Is "string cheese" a trademark? And something else I
remembered last night and then forgot again...
-Arthur
Arthur J. O'Dwyer
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:
>
> Oh, and "Post-it" for "yellow sticky note," and "Q-tip" for "cotton swab
> on a stick." Is "string cheese" a trademark? And something else I
> remembered last night and then forgot again...
(smacks forehead two seconds later)
Scotch tape!
Richard Bos
Yeah, but I only know one producer of Scotch tape. Sticky tape, sure,
there's millions of them, but Scotch is in a league of its own. Maybe
the USA is different, but I've never heard "Scotch tape" being used for
anything but the extra-clear, overwritable 3M product.
Richard
Boudewijn Waijers
wrote:
> [And "biro" is apparently a trademark of Bic, but is in fact used for
> all cheap ballpoint pens.]
In French, a "bic" is a generic word for a pen.
Boudewijn Waijers
> Interesting, because I've never heard anyone use "Tabasco" as
> a generic term for hot sauce, and I've lived on the East Coast almost
> my whole life.
In Dutch, we use tobasco as a generic name.
I don't think we have many trademarks that are used ads generic names, by
the way, or I may just be so used to them that I don't recognise them any
more...
Boudewijn Waijers
> Also left out: "Nutella" for "you know, that
> chocolatey hazelnut spread," because I don't think anyone else makes
> anything like Nutella.
In the Netherlands, we don't use Nutella as a produce name. It's clearly a
brand name here. The stuff itself is called "chocoladepasta", and there
are lots of brands of that.
Boudewijn Waijers
> We use "stofzuiger" for a vac, "plakband" for Scotch/Tesa tape,
> "kopieermachine" for Xerox: all descriptive terms.
Which, for those not speaking Dutch, mean "dustsucker", "sticky tape" and
"copying machine", respectively.
Martin Crisp
(in message <3f141519...@news.nl.net>):
> "Arthur J. O'Dwyer" <a...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
[snip earlier]
>> Scotch tape!
>
> Yeah, but I only know one producer of Scotch tape. Sticky tape, sure,
> there's millions of them, but Scotch is in a league of its own. Maybe
> the USA is different, but I've never heard "Scotch tape" being used for
> anything but the extra-clear, overwritable 3M product.
A UKism, I think.
In Australia (or Tasmania at least) we use 'durex' for
'sticky-tape' [or just 'sticky-tape'].
Whereas Durex is a brand of condom in the UK, and probably other
places - caused some concern for my in-laws when their young
daughters' school-supplies-list included 'durex' many years ago...
[And for the USians: XXXX is a particular beer here]
Have Fun
Martin
Richard Bos
> Jeremiah DeWitt Weiner, cunningly disguised as j...@panix.com wrote:
>
> > Interesting, because I've never heard anyone use "Tabasco" as
> > a generic term for hot sauce, and I've lived on the East Coast almost
> > my whole life.
>
> In Dutch, we use tobasco as a generic name.
For what? I've only ever used Tabasco for Tabasco(tm) - in fact, I've
never seen anything else that comes close.
> I don't think we have many trademarks that are used ads generic names, by
> the way, or I may just be so used to them that I don't recognise them any
> more...
Just thought of one: Tipp-ex. And in the computer business we often use
things like LaserJet, but also the more generic laser printer.
Richard
Richard Bos
> [And for the USians: XXXX is a particular beer here]
This is debatable... and I don't mean the particular bit ;-).
Richard
Martin Read
Martin Crisp <Spam....@tesseract.com.au> wrote:
>[And for the USians: XXXX is a particular beer here]
Castlemaine XXXX? The Australians I know don't think it even qualifies
as beer.
m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | eine answeringmachine fuer letzte fragen als selbstschussanlage
\/ | stuhl. letztendlich letztmalig eine hecke brennender buesche
------+ -- Einstuerzende Neubauten, "Sie"
Jane Williams
<Spam....@tesseract.com.au> wrote:
>Whereas Durex is a brand of condom in the UK,
To the extent that it probably qualifies as another of Those Words.
Martin Crisp
(in message <kwt*VA...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>):
> In article <0001HW.BB3AE012...@news.ozemail.com.au>,
> Martin Crisp <Spam....@tesseract.com.au> wrote:
>> [And for the USians: XXXX is a particular beer here]
>
> Castlemaine XXXX? The Australians I know don't think it even qualifies
> as beer.
Nonetheless that's what it is sold as.
[Tough crowd!]
Have Fun
Martin
[Who drinks bourbon by preference, and prefers Boag's Strongarm
Bitter if I have beer]
Michael Blackney
But if the UK is anything like Australia, the word Durex would get
little use anyway. Observe: "Do you have...?"
And if he doesn't get the point straight away she might be nice enough
to throw in a few awkward 'um's.
Lunes
> "rekrutacja" <rekru...@gazeta.pl> communicated:
>>> 1) Actually, in the dialect of English I speak, the term "vacuum
>>> cleaner" is much more commonly used than "hoover"
>>
>> In Poland for vacuum cleaner we rather use word "odkurzacz" (which
>> means exactly "vacuum cleaner"), but word "electrolux" is very common,
>> especially among older people. On the other hand bicycle is always
>> "Rover". Do you have any examples, in your own languages, that name or
>> brand of manufacturer becomes a name for a whole product-class?
<snip>
> Blu-Tac for that blue (often yellow these days) stuff you stick your
> posters to walls with.
Here in America, we call that stuff ticky-tack, for some strange reason...
Bruce
> Here in America, we call that stuff ticky-tack, for some strange reason...
Or gummy-tack. Or "that blue sticky gummy stuff that you hang posters
with." :)
--
Bruce Labbate | We do not urinate over a vanquished
shiftless layabout | foe on the floor of the United Nations!
| - The Pro
|
Sieska Cowdrey
news:ebfku-...@chromite.brokersys.com...
Strange that so many are connected with stationery. How about Filofax for
personal organiser. Also Sellotape is a generic in the UK for sticky tape.
Sieska
Cartridge
> Lunes <fiero...@37465-nulani.net> deserves a cookie for saying:
> > Here in America, we call that stuff ticky-tack, for some strange
reason...
>
> Or gummy-tack. Or "that blue sticky gummy stuff that you hang posters
> with." :)
>
I wonder why nobody made a "Greeny Tack" ?
--
Cartridge
wasn't demin (as in jeans) originally a product name
of some french fasion company ?
--
Ole Andersen
<http://histclo.hispeed.com/mat/mat-denim.html> has a lengthy discussion
of the subject.
--
Ole Andersen, Copenhagen, Denmark * http://palnatoke.net
"It's astonishing how much trouble one can get oneself into, if one
works at it." - Destruction
Cartridge
Ole Andersen <ne...@palnatoke.net> wrote in message
news:f_ZRa.22081$Kb2.1...@news010.worldonline.dk...
> Cartridge wrote:
>
> > This is now seriously way off topic ... but ...
> >
> > wasn't demin (as in jeans) originally a product name
> > of some french fasion company ?
>
> <http://histclo.hispeed.com/mat/mat-denim.html> has a lengthy discussion
> of the subject.
>
very nice ...
And here is one which must rank as an all time great ...
Fridge
From Frigidaire
--
David Corbett
> And here is one which must rank as an all time great ...
>
> Fridge
>
> From Frigidaire
No, it comes from 'refrigerator', which comes from a Latin word
'refrigerare': 'make cool'.
Bruce
And "refrigerare" comse from "frigidaire." Duh.
--
Bruce Labbate | I'm not listening anymore
shiftless layabout | I'm immune now to your poison
| Unmoved by a plague of voices.
| - Maria McKee
Ole Andersen
> And "refrigerare" comse from "frigidaire." Duh.
Or vice versa.
French loans in Latin are few and far between (if there are any at all).
--
Ole Andersen, Copenhagen, Denmark * http://palnatoke.net
As a Jefferson deist four days a week and a Thoreau pantheist the
remaining three, I go to church nearly every morning. My church is a
secret live oak in Brackenridge Park.
- Maury Maverick, Jr., 1921-2003
Jonathan Carter
..make sure it scares the hell out of any cats in the room..
--
Jon
RecRanger
> [Proposal of a vacuum cleaner]
>
> ..make sure it scares the hell out of any cats in the room..
...and you *cannot* write in the dust of rooms that have been
vacuumed... and, of course, you have a chance of accidentally 'sucking
up' small items...
Yashichi
>> [Proposal of a vacuum cleaner]
>>
> ...and you *cannot* write in the dust of rooms that have been
> vacuumed... and, of course, you have a chance of accidentally 'sucking
> up' small items...
Starting to sound less like a tool than a named gelatinous cube. One more
for the Minor Uniques list? (ObNote: NHINEQ.)
--
"We are setting a standard for the rest of the world in the treatment
of people who may have loyalties to an enemy nation. We are protecting
ourselves without violating the principles of Christian decency."
Milton S. Eisenhower, "Japanese Relocation" (1943 propaganda film)